'Who created God' is an Illogical Question!

[Nyani Ngabu]

My proposition did not concern itself with specific numbers or measurements.

Just the fact that however fine your current measurements are, if they tell you that you are agnostic, they are not fine enough. Once you examine things closely enough you will conclude that you are either on one side or another.

So throwing a number that show your kens is very fine does nit contradict my proposition.

Mi kama unapina uzito wa kilo moja kamili.

Unaweza kupata kilo moja up to a certain decimal places, ukiongeza precision utakuta uzito umepungua au kuzidi kilo moja.

Okay, wewe hitimisho la kwamba darubini yangu niitumiayo kufanyia uchunguzi haina ubora wa kutosha kwa sababu inanipa au hainipi majibu yaliyo dhahiri, umelifikiaje?

Unalazimisha kuwa ukifanya uchunguzi wa kina basi ni lazima utapata jibu moja kati ya mawili yawezekanayo.

Kwa nini tu kuwe 'either-or' na kusiwepo na 'maybe'?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Yes.

First thing first, the framework being logic, the godhead being omnipotent, omniscient and omni benevolent (and therefore humanly knowable) on the one hand (proposition p) who created a world that allows evil even as he was capable of creating a world in which evil is not possible (proposition negative p)

This godhead idea contradicts itself by giving us two opposing propositions.

P = - P.

God does not exist.

Because the idea of this God says he does not exist.

So to you, if something contradicts itself, that means it doesn't exist?

Self-contradiction = nonexistence?

 

[Kiranga]

Okay, wewe hitimisho la kwamba darubini yangu niitumiayo kufanyia uchunguzi haina ubora wa kutosha kwa sababu inanipa au hainipi majibu yaliyo dhahiri, umelifikiaje?

Unalazimisha kuwa ukifanya uchunguzi wa kina basi ni lazima utapata jibu moja kati ya mawili yawezekanayo.

Kwa nini tu kuwe 'either-or' na kusiwepo na 'maybe'?

Maybe what?

Isn't "either a or b" the same as "maybe a, maybe b" ?

What is the difference?

 

[Mtanzanika]

Anayesema hakubali kwamba Mungu yupo na kutoa nafasi ya kuthibitishiwa kwamba Mungu yupo na anayesema Mungu yupo nani anasema anajua kitu hapo?

Huyu Mungu ambaye hayupo unamjua?
Maana kama mtu unasema kitu fulani hakipo ina maanisha kwamba hicho kitu ambacho hakipo unakijua, kwasababu una vielelezo tosha juu ya kutokuwepo kwake na kwamba kama kingekuwepo kungekuwa na vielelezo gani.

 

[Kiranga]

So to you, if something contradicts itself, that means it doesn't exist?

Self-contradiction = nonexistence?

In logic, self contradiction means that which gives that contradiction does not exist as construed.

A contradiction shows a mistake somewhere in thinking and logic.

A contradiction destroys all order and would allow to have something like a=b, b=c, c=d all the way to y=z, destroying any meaning in the alphabet.

A contradiction destroys order and would allow to have something like 1=2, 2=3, 3=4, 4=5 basically making every number equal to every number.

A system that allows God to contradict himself basically allows God to be nothing, nothing to be God and everything to be God at the same time.

Utter nonsense.

That's why when I see a contradiction in the idea if God, the supposedly epitome of order, I know that Gid cannot exist.

Because, after all, the contradiction allows nothing to be God and God to be nothing and everything to be God.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Maybe what?

Isn't "either a or b" the same as "maybe a, maybe b" ?

What is the difference?

Okay, 'either-or' means that there is a choice between two things whereby both of them together are not possible. Either god exists or he doesn't. You are either a theist or an atheist. It's definite.

Maybe is the in-between. If not certain that something is true or not, then 'maybe' is your go-to refuge.

So if you say 'maybe god exists, maybe he doesn't', that is not the same as 'god exists or god doesn't exist'.

 

[Kiranga]

Huyu Mungu ambaye hayupo unamjua?
Maana kama mtu unasema kitu fulani hakipo ina maanisha kwamba hicho kitu ambacho hakipo unakijua, kwasababu una vielelezo tosha juu ya kutokuwepo kwake na kwamba kama kingekuwepo kungekuwa na vielelezo gani.

Naweza kusema hakuna pembetatu ambayo pia ni duara katika Euclidean geometry siyo?

Kwa sababu najua pembetatu si duara na duara si pembetatu na hivyo hakuwezi kuwa na pembatetu ambayo hapo hapo ni duara, siyo?

Kwa sababu pembetatu ambayo hapo hapo ni duara ni dhana yenye contradiction, siyo?

Mungu mjuzi wa yote, mwenye uwezo wote na upendo wote ambaye kaumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana kufanyika wakati alikuwa na uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote wa kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezi kufanyika naye hawezekani kuwepo kwa sababu ana contradiction hivyo hivyo kama pembetatu ambayo hapo hapo ni duara katika Euclidean geometry.

Kitu kinachojipinga chenyewe katika dhana, hakiwezi kuwapo katika uhalisia.

Pembetatu si duara na duara si pembetatu, hivyo hakuna pembetatu duara. Inajipinga katika dhana. Haip katika uhalisia.

Mungu mjuzi wa yote, mwenye uwezo wote na upendo wote (proposotion p) kwenda kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana wakati alikuwa na ujuzi wote, uwezo wote na upendo wote wa kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezekani ni kukanusha asili za muhimu kabisa zake yeye mwenyewe huyu Mungu (negation of p)

Kama vile hakuwezi kuwa na pembetatu ambayo ni duara katika Euclidean geometry, due to contradiction, ndivyo hakuwezekani kuwepo kwa Mungu mjuzi wa yote, mwenye uwezo wote na upendo wote aliyeumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana wakati alikuwa na uwezo wa kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezekani, due to contradiction

This is clear and simple logic.

 

[Kiranga]

Okay, 'either-or' means that there is a choice between two things whereby both of them together are not possible. Either god exists or he doesn't. You are either a theist or an atheist. It's definite.

Maybe is the in-between. If not certain that something is true or not, then 'maybe' is your go-to refuge.

So if you say 'maybe god exists, maybe he doesn't', that is not the same as 'god exists or god doesn't exist'.

In terms of set theory, how would you write this maybe of yours?

Sometimes I like to use mathematics as it simplifies thought and nail down the logic better and weed out the bs.

Is that A intersection B or A union B?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

In logic, self contradiction means that which gives that contradiction does not exist as construed.

Perfect!

That is precisely what I have been positing all along albeit in other words.

I have always asked the question that what if the people who claim god exists are way off beam in their understanding?

What if he does exist but maybe he is not all that as advertised?

What would you say then?

 

[Kiranga]

Perfect!

That is precisely what I have been positing all along albeit in other words.

I have always asked the question that what if the people who claim god exists are way off beam in their understanding?

What if he does exist but maybe he is not all that as advertised?

What would you say then?

You remind me of a J.B.S Haldane quote. For more on him see J. B. S. Haldane - Wikiquote

He said "I have no doubt that in reality the future will be vastly more surprising than anything I can imagine. Now my own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."

This fellow is recorded as having said this in 1927 in "Possible Worlds and Other Papers (1927), p. 286"

God does not exist, the God idea is much too simple, much too humanlike.

Reality is much more interesting, queerer and astounding than the God idea.

Believers often choose the God idea for its awe inspiring grandiosity. In truth, they are shortchanging themselves.

Examination of the natural world has given us a converging pattern which shows us the following.

1. What we once thought as beyond our knowledge, with enough perserverence and research, gradually becomes accessible to us.
2. We can explain the universe in terms of natural laws.
3. Even the bits that we think are currently unexplainable, is bound to be explained once we have a sufficient level of science and technology. To quote Arthur C. Clarke's third law "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" See Clarke's three laws - Wikipedia
4. In any case, the omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent godhead who still end up creating a world that is capable of having evil even though he is capable of creating a world that does not allow evil has such shoddy logic that a smart kindergarten kid can rip the idea apart, the only reason he survives is because people allow him a loophole with the cyclic logic that "god can do anything". Well that is the definition of "Deus ex Machina" for an author who cannot rsolve a plot.

 

[kamusi]

Nimekujibu.

Why would God's book need scholars?

God couln't make his book so simple and clear to the extent that it does not need scholars?

hebu soma Quran ya tafisiri ya kiswahili basi utaona its the most simple book to understand...please I love you Kiranga dont be like that, you cant ignore the presence of the Almighty creator as you are doing now..please please stop that..

 

[Kiranga]

hebu soma Quran ya tafisiri ya kiswahili basi utaona its the most simple book to understand...please I love you Kiranga dont be like that, you cant ignore the presence of the Almighty creator as you are doing now..please please stop that..

Quran inajichanganya.

Inasema kuna watu hata msisumbuke kuwaambia habari za Allah. Maana Allah kashawafanya mioyo yao iwe mizito. Kawafunga macho na masikio wasimjue.

Kisha ya hapo siku ya kiyama atawahukumu hukumu kubwa.

Kwa sababu hawakumjua.

Huyu Mungu Mungu gani huyu?

Kwanza anakufanya moyo wako uwe mzito. Anakuziba macho na masikio ili usimjue.

Halafu ukikosa kumjua anakuhukumu kwa sababu hukumjua.

Hivi haya mambo yanaingua akilini kama ya kutoka kwa Mungu au ni watu tu wamejiandikia?

 

[Hb wa Ilala]

What is that spirit u a talking about...? do u mean he is invisible??? And why He and not she???...

..haha!!i laughed alot after reading this comment starting from u not being able to understand the meaning of the word spirit to the Point of asking Its sex

 

[Hb wa Ilala]

Je unataka kutuambia majanga ni kazi ya shetani??? Manake mnasemaga mabaya yote ni ya shetani.... kama Mungu ameumba dunia, mwezi, je, vimbuka, matetemeko ni ya nani???

..hizo zote ni Aftermath za kutenda dhambi,since sin Originated from Satan znakuwa perceived ni zake

 

[Hb wa Ilala]

Jambo baya au zuri halihitaji Mungu kulijua... if I beat u.. u will get hurt and u will respond back or stay out of my way.... mwizi anapokuja kukuibia u will get angry and even cry.. jambo zuri its all about smile, laugh and comfort... jambo baya its all about crying, anger or being unhappy.... u don't need God to recognise these...

..from Your Point Ov view,mtu akinifanyia kibaya nikatabasamu/cheka kinakuwa Justified kuwa ni kizuri eeh?!

 

[Hb wa Ilala]

Why hiyo limited capacity inatuambia Mungu alisema hivi Mungu alisema vile... mboya haya mambo above ur limited capacity??? Umeyajuaje haya???

..its not the Limited capacity that fatoms hio understanding,hio huja from reading books especially the religious books

 

[Hb wa Ilala]

Mimi nikufafanulie maelezo ya maxime ? Kwa sababu nakujua vizuri upeo wako?

Nakujua vizuri wewe ni mke wangu?

Mwanamme unaniambia mwanamme mwenzako nakujua vizuri wakati sijawahi hata kukutia machoni?

Unajua kwa wengine hiyo ni kashfa hapo? Tulikutana wapi mpaka mimi nikujue vizuri upeo wako wewe?

Upeo gani? Unaongelea upeo au kukosa upeo?

 

[amani06]

Some of the answers you will never get because you are not GOD. However naweza nikasema kuwa Mungu hufanya vitu logically ingawa hafungwi na logical. Yeye ndiye muasisi wa logic ambayo tunaijua sisi. ( Mungu ni yeye yule Jana, Leo na hata milele).

(Ikumbukwe kuwa kila kitu katika ulimwengu ni logical, we just see some of them illogical because we can't comprehend them using our normal brains).

I knw you will start to ask me questions like 'Can God create pembetatu duara'? I will answer as follow;

Out of our normal logic, its impossible, but, as God is not limited with logic, then we may conclude that God can do anything even things we can not imagine .

You may also ask this question, "Can God create a triangle for which sum of angles are greater than 180°? Then I answer as follows;
1. Degrees is a human invention. Therefore, if a man wanted the triangle to have 1000°, they would do it.
2. In more than two dimensions, (I.e. for example in three dimensions) triangles may have more than 180° logically.

To sum up, our God exist outside our known dimensions and knowledge and therefore, we can not clearly describe his power, authority, and capability. We have to accept him, honour him, worship him, believe him, glorify him, and trust him.

Moreover, we have to ask him to give us the knowledge of him.

To sum up, nataka watu kama Kiranga wa confess kwanza kuwa suala ya Who Created God is illogical question, kwa hiyo sitarajii mtu kuuliza maswali kama ya ' Nani kamuumba Mungu? Au Mungu katoka wapi? Hiyo ni kwa sababu Mungu hajatoka popote. Yupo milele, hana MWANZO, hana MWISHO!

Yes umejibu vema na kwa mantiki

 

[kamusi]

Dear Kiranga,

kwa sababu hujasoma vizuri hicho kitabu cha Quran ndio mana unasema hivo, please hebu kitafute, na uchukue muda kukisoma, tena nakushauri ukisome wakati wa usiku ambako utakuwa umetulia, yaani huna kazi wala shughuli inayokushughulisha wakati huo.
Hebu naomba nisikize na usome hiki kitabu halafu uone kama moyo wako utaendelea kubaki kama ulivyo.

Please dont ignore this advice please just try some few chapters. You are a good person you cant blast the creator of the universe as you are now doing. It is just because of ignorant but I hope that your attitude will tottally change up on reading this book carefully.
If you dont have I will buy one for you..please

 

[Mtangoo]

Shetani ni Kiumbe mmoja kati ya zaidi ya Vigintillion ya viumbe wenye utashi walioumbwa na Mungu. Sasa Mungu si mwanadamu Hata aogope kuumba kwa sababu kiumbe kitaasi. Vinginevyo ukubali kuhoji infiniteness of his plans and supernatural intelligency with our finite mind. God did not create the world for robots but for us. Ilikuwa rahisi Kumkabidhi hii dunia Hata Ng'ombe au Panya Kuitawala lakini kwa utashi wake akaamua wewe mwenye uhuru hata wa kuhoji kazi zake uwe ndio mtawala.

Unampa free ride ya nini huyo? Makosa ya Mungu kwa kipimo gani? Aliyapimaje makosa ya Mungu?
Question foundation za argument zake na utaona arguments zake ni za kipumbavu kabisa!