'Who created God' is an Illogical Question!

[Kiranga]

Tuendelee tulipoishia

Kwanza umekubali ulichonukuu?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Katika mstari wa spectrum ya kuamini Mungu yupo unaoanzia perfect 0 kwa wale wanaoamini yupo kabisaa na perfect 100 wasioamini Mungu yupo kabisaa kuna namba tatu haziwezi kuwa perfect. In fact whole number yoyote haiwezi kuwa perfect ukiwa na kifaa cha kuiangalia vizuri zaidi, lakini hapa nitaangalia namba tatu.

Perfect zero haipo. Hakuna mtu anayeamini Mungu yupo bila hata chembe ya kuhoji hata siku moja.

Peefect 100 haipo. Hakuna mtu asiyekubali Mungu yupo perfectly bila chembe ya kuhoji.

Perfect fifty haipo. Hakuna mtu aliye agnostic kwenye swali hili perfectly.

Kwa hiyo, swali linakuja, unaangukia upande gani wa perfect fifty?

Are you atheistic more than perfect fifty or are you less than perfect fifty.

If you have to qualify your agnosticism with a margin of error, you must fall into either side.

Agnosticism is a philosophical position which cannot be upheld in real life. The required perfect balance is just too unreal.

Hapo umeandika declarative sentences ambazo sidhani kama utaweza kuzitetea ukibanwa....

Halafu, kwani kuna mtu ambaye kasema msimamo/mtazamo wake ni 'perfect' [ukiacha nyie mnaoamini na kukataa]?

Na perfect balance ya agnosticism ni ipi hiyo na ni kwa mujibu wa nani?

Hujui kuwa hata kwenye agnosticism kuna subdivisions?

 

[Kiranga]

Hapo umeandika declarative sentences ambazo sidhani kama utaweza kuzitetea ukibanwa....

Halafu, kwani kuna mtu ambaye kasema msimamo/mtazamo wake ni 'perfect' [ukiacha nyie mnaoamini na kukataa]?

Na perfect balance ya agnosticism ni ipi hiyo na ni kwa mujibu wa nani?

Hujui kuwa hata kwenye agnosticism kuna subdivisions?

Agnosticism is neither accepting God exists nor accepting God does not exist, but suspending the question as currently unknowable.

Correct?

 

[MSEZA MKULU]

Kwanza umekubali ulichonukuu?

Ungetenda haki kama ungeanza kujibu unachotakiwa ili uulize swali lingine.
Otherwise useme wewe huna cha kueleza zaidi ya maswali kama ulivyofundishwa na Socrates.

Anayesema hakubali kwamba Mungu yupo na kutoa nafasi ya kuthibitishiwa kwamba Mungu yupo na anayesema Mungu yupo nani anasema anajua kitu hapo?

Anayepewa nafasi ya kuthibitishiwa kama ambayo Mungu mwenyewe anawaomba wafanye, na kufikishwa kwenye hatua ya kufikirishwa ili afanye maamuzi kwa akili yake kama Mungu yupo au hayupo. Anakimbia na kuuliza swali jipya, Kama Mungu Yupo kwa nini kunacontradictions?

 

[Kiranga]

Ungetenda haki kama ungeanza kujibu unachotakiwa ili uulize swali lingine.
Otherwise useme wewe huna cha kueleza zaidi ya maswali kama ulivyofundishwa na Socrates.

Anayesema hakubali kwamba Mungu yupo na kutoa nafasi ya kuthibitishiwa kwamba Mungu yupo na anayesema Mungu yupo nani anasema anajua kitu hapo?

Anayepewa nafasi ya kuthibitishiwa kama ambayo Mungu mwenyewe anawaomba wafanye, na kufikishwa kwenye hatua ya kufikirishwa ili afanye maamuzi kwa akili yake kama Mungu yupo au hayupo. Anakimbia na kuuliza swali jipya, Kama Mungu Yupo kwa nini kunacontradictions?

Unaweza kuthibitisha Mungu yupo?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Agnosticism is neither accepting God exists nor accepting God does not exist, but suspending the question as currently unknowable.

Correct?

Agnosticism is the belief that it is not possible to know whether God exists or not.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Anayesema hakubali kwamba Mungu yupo na kutoa nafasi ya kuthibitishiwa kwamba Mungu yupo na anayesema Mungu yupo nani anasema anajua kitu hapo?

Halafu, mtu utakanaje kuwa mungu hayupo na kwa wakati huo huo unatoa upenyo wa kuthibitishiwa kuwa yupo?

Kama hayupo kama unavyodai basi hata hiyo nafasi ya kuthibitishiwa kuwa kweli yupo nayo haiwezi kuwepo.

Kama hayupo ni hayupo tu. Hakuna cha nafasi wala upenyo tena wa kuthibitishiwa kitu ambacho umeshasema hakipo.

Ukisema kuwa hayupo na kutoa nafasi ya kuthibitishiwa kuwa yupo basi huwezi kudai kuwa hayupo.

Ndo maana nikamwambia hapo ana sound kama agnostic flani hivi...

 

[MSEZA MKULU]

Unaweza kuthibitisha Mungu yupo?

back to square 1.

 

[Kiranga]

back to square 1.

Unaweza kuthibitisha Mungu yupo?

 

[MSEZA MKULU]

Halafu, mtu utakanaje kuwa mungu hayupo na kwa wakati huo huo unatoa upenyo wa kuthibitishiwa kuwa yupo?

Kama hayupo kama unavyodai basi hata hiyo nafasi ya kuthibitishiwa kuwa kweli yupo nayo haiwezi kuwepo.

Kama hayupo ni hayupo tu. Hakuna cha nafasi wala upenyo tena wa kuthibitishiwa kitu ambacho umeshasema hakipo.

Ukisema kuwa hayupo na kutoa nafasi ya kuthibitishiwa kuwa yupo basi huwezi kudai kuwa hayupo.

Ndo maana nikamwambia hapo ana sound kama agnostic flani hivi...

Alipaswa kusema Mungu hayupo. na apitie njia hiyohiyo hadi mwisho.
Na hapo hawezi Kuthubutu maana Maswali yote anayozunguka nayo siku karibu ya 18 yatamrudia yeye.
Unless aseme anapenda changamoto

 

[Kiranga]

Agnosticism is the belief that it is not possible to know whether God exists or not.

Are you remotely agnostic about agnosticism at all?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Alipaswa kusema Mungu hayupo. na apitie njia hiyohiyo hadi mwisho.
Na hapo hawezi Kuthubutu maana Maswali yote anayozunguka nayo siku karibu ya 18 yatamrudia yeye.
Unless aseme anapenda changamoto

Hahaaa kabisa.

Ukikataa kitu hakipo ni hakipo tu.

Lakini sio kukataa halafu unatoa kaupenyo ka uwepo wa hicho unachokikataa.

Huko ni kujiandalia mazingira ya kujitetea endapo itabainika ulichokuwa unakataa uwepo wake kumbe kipo.

Ukishathibitishiwa hapo utadai 'lakini' nilisema kama kipo nithibitishie

Mtu unakataa uwepo wa kitu halafu una entertain uwepo wake kijanja kijanja...

Come on now.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Are you remotely agnostic about agnosticism at all?

I'd say so, yes....

 

[HaMachiach]

Tatizo ni kuwa na cyclic evidence, una kitabu kinachosema Mungu yupo, ukiulizwa where is the evidence unasema, ushahidi upo kwenye kitabu hicho hicho, Huwezi ukawa na self authenticated evidence. The claimant and the evidence can not be from the same.

Ushahidi wa kuwa Mungu yupo ni uwepo wako we we ndio unanifanya niamini maana umeumbwa na yeye

 

[latif 481]

maxime anasema haiwezekani kukitolea kitu justification kuwa kina exist bila kutumia five sense organs.

Je,wewe unasemaje juu ya hilo?

Sio kweli kabisa, ukiingia ndani kabisa mwa falsafa unakuta wakati mwengine Kuna mambo mengine ni yapo Lakin huwezi ukasense kwa kutumia hizo five organs.
Kwenye empirical knowledge (source of knowledge through sense organs) inathibitisha kwamba hizi sense organs zina limitation yake, kwa mfano sauti ya mawimbi ya tetemeko la ardhi human ear haiwezi kudetect, movement of stars from the sky, macho hayawezi kudetect, labda halisi ya moto (moto una ladha gani) ulimi hauwezi kudetect, harufu halisi ya maji, pua haiwezi kudetect, particles zilizokuwepo ndani ya hewa macho hayawezi kudetect, usingizi hatuwezi kudetect harufu yake wala kuuona, akili ipo Lakin hatuiwezi kuiona na mambo mengine mengi,
Hii inathibitisha kwamba sense organs nazo ziko limited katika kufanya kazi yake

 

[Bulamba]

Ushawahi kusikia kitu kinaitwa "immanent critique" ?

Wasioamini Mungu yupo ndio wanataka uthibitisho. Wanaoamini Mungu yupo tayari watake uthibitisho kwa nini wakati washakubali kwamba Mungu yupo?

Universal Declaration of Human Rights inahusika katika mimi kuelezea kwamba sipingi uhuru wa mtu kuamini anavyotaka kama wengine wanavyofikiri.

Naunga mkono uhuru wa kila mtu kuamini anavyotaka kama ilivyoandikwa katika Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Lakini mimi kukubali na kutetea haki ya kila mtu kuwa na uhuru wa kuabudu anavyoona haina maananya kwamba natoa ruhusa kwa mtu kuhubiri uongo hapa JF.

Nyumbani kwako, msikitini kwako, kanisani kwako abudu unavyotaka.

Ukija JF hii ni public square. Ukisema mti ni Mungu na mimi nina shaka na habari hiyo, nina wajibu wa kukuuliza mti unakuwaje Mungu wakati mimi najua mti ni mmea unaokua kwa kanunibza baiolojia?

Sikuzuii kuamini mti ni Mungu. Nakutaka unieleze kwa nininunasema unavyosema at a public square.

Jua tofauti na sababu za mimi kutaja kila nisichotaja.

Kama hujajua bado huenda una mapungufu yaliyo zaidi ya uwezo wangu kuyakabili.

You are an atheist.There is no doubt about that.It is your choice and you have the right to make that choice.

No one is obligated to prove his or her belief to you.You are nobody.Why would i waste my precious time to explain my faith to a nobody like you who does not matter to me in any way whatsoever.

You talk about immanent critique.I am not a social science scholar.Immanent critique is a method of discussing culture which aims to locate contradictions in society rules and systems.We dont talk about culture here.We are talking about God and faith towards him.

There are some things in this world that are beyong human explanation.
1.Look at how complicated the universe is
2.Look at how living organisms are so diverse,complicated and itricate.
3.What happens after we die?
4.We have spent 21 centuries trying to underatand the world and its inhabitant and we keep discovering new things that were there since the creation of universe.

You dont have to be a rocket scientist to appreciate the posibility of super natural power that made all this possible.It is so unlikely that all things in this world occured by chance.

I am curious to know the reasons that you and other atheists put forward in trying to object the presence of God and his amaizing work in this world.

 

[Kiranga]

You are an atheist.There is no doubt about that.It is your choice and you have the right to make that choice.

No one is obligated to prove his or her belief to you.You are nobody.Why would i waste my precious time to explain my faith to a nobody like you who does not matter to me in any way whatsoever.

You talk about immanent critique.I am not a social science scholar.Immanent critique is a method of discussing culture which aims to locate contradictions in society rules and systems.We dont talk about culture here.We are talking about God and faith towards him.

There are some things in this world that are beyong human explanation.
1.Look at how complicated the universe is
2.Look at how living organisms are so diverse,complicated and itricate.
3.What happens after we die?
4.We have spent 21 centuries trying to underatand the world and its inhabitant and we keep discovering new things that were there since the creation of universe.

You dont have to be a rocket scientist to appreciate the posibility of super natural power that made all this possible.It is so unlikely that all things in this world occured by chance.

I am curious to know the reasons that you and other atheists put forward in trying to object the presence of God and his amaizing work in this world.

Do you know that when you are asking why should you waste your time to explain your faith to me, a nobody, while you are essentially explaining your faith to me, a nobody, you are contradicting yourself right?

A nobody like me should nit even warrant a reply from.

If you do reply, I am not such a nobody after all.

You are contradicting yourself.

 

[Kiranga]

I'd say so, yes....

Then you are an agnostic only because you choose to view your position with a crude lens, a finer microscope will reveal that you are either an atheist or a theist.

It is like saying you are standing at the equator and therefore you are neither on the southern nor northern hemisphere. One can only maintain that position if one grants a full meter or so as the equator, the more you fine tune the line of demarcation, the more you are bound to find you center of gravity residing in one or the other hemisphere.

 

[Kiranga]

Hahaaa kabisa.

Ukikataa kitu hakipo ni hakipo tu.

Lakini sio kukataa halafu unatoa kaupenyo ka uwepo wa hicho unachokikataa.

Huko ni kujiandalia mazingira ya kujitetea endapo itabainika ulichokuwa unakataa uwepo wake kumbe kipo.

Ukishathibitishiwa hapo utadai 'lakini' nilisema kama kipo nithibitishie

Mtu unakataa uwepo wa kitu halafu una entertain uwepo wake kijanja kijanja...

Come on now.

Unafahamu kitu kinaitwa "framework"?

Unajua kwamba chochote unachokubali kipo au hakipo ni lazima utumie "framework" fulani?

Unajua kwamba bila "framework" hata wewe mwenyewe huwezi kukubali au kukataa kwamba upo?
Kwa sababu chochote utakachosema kinapingika?

Unajua kwamba agostic kwa kweli anatakiwa asipumue? Kwa sababu anatakiwa asijue kama akipumua atapumua cyanide itakayomuua hapo hapo ama la.

Unajua kwamba kitendo kwamba unapumua kinaonesha kwamba u agnostic wako unatumia framework fulani ya reference ili usi paralyze na kufariki kwa kuogopa kupumua?

Unajua unaweza kutumia framework hiyo hiyo kuchunguza suala la uwepo wa Mungu?

 

[Kiranga]

You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.You do not have any convicing ideas.Your understanding of subject matter is low.
I was expecting a philosophical answer as to why some people think God does not exist.
This is a useless thread.
Am out.All the best in your pursuits.

You are not out, you just replied to my post.

And I bet you will reply again.

I have given plenty of philosophical arguments in this thread, read.