Muswada wa Sheria ya Mapitio ya Katiba: Download na pitia uone kilichomo na usambaze

[Luteni]

Kitu mnachoshindwa kuelewa ni kuwa hata wanaCCM wapo wanaoupinga huu muswada,kwa hiyo cha muhimu ni kutoupitisha huu muswada.
Kuna swali ambalo baadhi yetu tunakwepa kujibu na naomba nijbiwe hapa ili nione wenzangu mnaonaje process hii anayoitumia rais.
Je,tunakubali kuwa serikali iliyopo ni serikali iliyoundwa kidemokrasia?Nikimaanisha,wabunge waliopo wamechaguliwa kidemokrasia?....na rais aliyepo amechaguliwa kidemokrasia?(mnaamini watanzania wengi walimpa kura ya ndio kikwete kuliko Slaa?

kobello

Hapa hatujadili nani rais wa kweli na yupi si wa kweli hiyo ni story nyingine kabisa haihusiani na muswada uliopo, tunachoangalia hapa ni je yaliyomo kwenye muswada yanakidhi matarajio ya watanzania walio wengi?

 

[Luteni]

Wapinzani walipotaka katiba mpya nadhani walishakuwa na katiba wanayoitaka au jinsi mchakato mzima utakavyoendeshwa.All they need ni kusubmit na kulobby wabunge waCCM either through their MPs or through the mass.Operation should start now,peaceful demos kupata support ya mass ambayo inaweza kuwainfluence MPs wa CCM kuback off.

kobello

You are missing the point hakuna kitu kinachoitwa katiba ya wapinzani hata wakati wa kampeni kutakuwa na makundi mawili tu ya YES na NO sijui hapo kundi gani utaliita la wapinzani na lipi la CCM.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Kitu mnachoshindwa kuelewa ni kuwa hata wanaCCM wapo wanaoupinga huu muswada,kwa hiyo cha muhimu ni kutoupitisha huu muswada.
Kuna swali ambalo baadhi yetu tunakwepa kujibu na naomba nijbiwe hapa ili nione wenzangu mnaonaje process hii anayoitumia rais.
Je,tunakubali kuwa serikali iliyopo ni serikali iliyoundwa kidemokrasia?Nikimaanisha,wabunge waliopo wamechaguliwa kidemokrasia?....na rais aliyepo amechaguliwa kidemokrasia?(mnaamini watanzania wengi walimpa kura ya ndio kikwete kuliko Slaa?

NOPE!!! angalau nikijisemea mimi mwenyewe.

 

[Kobello]

kobello

You are missing the point hakuna kitu kinachoitwa katiba ya wapinzani hata wakati wa kampeni kutakuwa na makundi mawili tu ya YES na NO sijui hapo kundi gani utaliita la wapinzani na lipi la CCM.

Tunadiscuss mamlaka ya rais,nguvu na muundo wa tume,kazi za tume,muundo wa bunge la katiba...etc.CCm kwa kupitia serikali yake imetoa muswaada.Wapinzani nao watoe muswada wao,au walikuwa wanataka katiba mpya bila kujua wanataka ipatikanaje?

 

[Kobello]

NOPE!!! angalau nikijisemea mimi mwenyewe.

Then,no matter what,the whole exercise is bogus,because even if the parliament comes with a new version,it still going to be illegal to you since you consider the parliament to be illegal....got it?

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Then,no matter what,the whole exercise is bogus,because even if the parliament comes with a new version,it still going to be illegal to you since you consider the parliament to be illegal....got it?

Nope.. your conclusion doesn't follow the question you asked. Review your question and see if it has anything to do with the legality of either the president or the parliament. I'll be glad to remind you what you asked: You had three questions:

Je,tunakubali kuwa serikali iliyopo ni serikali iliyoundwa kidemokrasia?
Nikimaanisha,wabunge waliopo wamechaguliwa kidemokrasia?....
na rais aliyepo amechaguliwa kidemokrasia?(mnaamini watanzania wengi walimpa kura ya ndio kikwete kuliko Slaa?

 

[Invisible]

Then,no matter what,the whole exercise is bogus,because even if the parliament comes with a new version,it still going to be illegal to you since you consider the parliament to be illegal....got it?

Mkuu unakaba hata kwenye penati? :yield:

 

[Kobello]

Mkuu unakaba hata kwenye penati? :yield:

We are just trying to agree where the centre biegin.Trying to see if the president had the right to submit that bill to the parliament under the existing constitution.The parliament can do the same but too bad the people gave CCM their votes.
This means,not following the rules is disrespectful to the mass.

 

[Kobello]

Nope.. your conclusion doesn't follow the question you asked. Review your question and see if it has anything to do with the legality of either the president or the parliament. I'll be glad to remind you what you asked: You had three questions:

Well,if you believe at least the parliament to be legal,i.e it represents the mass proportionally,then submit your motion to the floor and lobby for the votes/support,if not try 2015 may be you will have the majority in the parliament.Just because you get crowds in your demos doesn't constitute that your party has the majority support.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Well,if you believe at least the parliament to be legal,i.e it represents the mass proportionally,then submit your motion to the floor and lobby for the votes/support,if not try 2015 may be you will have the majority in the parliament.Just because you get crowds in your demos doesn't constitute that your party has the majority support.

I'm trying to understand your argument but with very little success. I'm really trying.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Well,if you believe at least the parliament to be legal,i.e it represents the mass proportionally,then submit your motion to the floor and lobby for the votes/support,if not try 2015 may be you will have the majority in the parliament.Just because you get crowds in your demos doesn't constitute that your party has the majority support.

what you mean "at least"..

 

[Sungurampole]

Angalizo lako mkuu liko poa.
Binafsi naafiki lile la kuandaa na kuwasilisha 'schedule of ammendments' kwa mswada huu (japo kwa mapungufu yake ni almost rewritting the bill) sambamba na hilo kuendelea kuelimisha umma mpana juu ya mchezo mchafu unaodhamiriwa na waliondaa mswada na hivyo kujenga grassroot support ya kutosha kuwashinikiza kama itabidi kwenda kwa mtindo huo.

 

[Kobello]

Angalizo lako mkuu liko poa.
Binafsi naafiki lile la kuandaa na kuwasilisha 'schedule of ammendments' kwa mswada huu (japo kwa mapungufu yake ni almost rewritting the bill) sambamba na hilo kuendelea kuelimisha umma mpana juu ya mchezo mchafu unaodhamiriwa na waliondaa mswada na hivyo kujenga grassroot support ya kutosha kuwashinikiza kama itabidi kwenda kwa mtindo huo.

Good point!

 

[Kobello]

what you mean "at least"..

Seems like you question the presidency...as in who got the majority votes in 2010,you believe Slaa and I believe it's JK

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

We are just trying to agree where the centre biegin.Trying to see if the president had the right to submit that bill to the parliament under the existing constitution.The parliament can do the same but too bad the people gave CCM their votes.
This means,not following the rules is disrespectful to the mass.

the right? did you mean exclusive rights barring all other people's rights? The president does not have rights that other people do not have. Rais ana wajibu na majukumu tu yanayotokana na nafasi yake; hatuviiti hivi haki.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Seems like you question the presidency...as in who got the majority votes in 2010,you believe Slaa and I believe it's JK

In a nutshell, you are right.

 

[Kaunga]

I have different questions!
1. Katiba Mpya ifaayo ni inayo favor kikundi au chama/vyama fulani?
2. If not, kwanini chama fulani, hakioni umuhimu wala nia ya kuleta positive change?
3. Katiba ni ya miaka 5 au 10? Coz, hata kuchakachua kuna mwisho? Say 2015 CUF wamechukua nchi, hao CCM hawatakuwa wa kwanza kuomba new constitution? Another process, more tume more unnecessary matumizi ya tax payer's money
4. Hao wasomi, wanasheria wa Serikali, r they real that myopic, that they don't see the importancy of this process, sio tu kwao bali kwa maisha na ustatawi wa watoto wao na wajukuu zao?
5. Viongozi wetu, sijui ni utamaduni, au kutokuwa na uhakika wa their myopic kesho? They don't care about legacy (kwamba wakumbukwe kwa lipi) they only care of how much they reap after they leave?

Naomba msaada wenzangu, hainiingii akilini kabisa. Natamani tungeandaa semina ya Uraia na Uzalendo kwa Wabunge wote wa CCM. Na tuwafanye waanze kuona, jinsi gani maamuzi yao ndio yatakavyoMUUA binti yake ambaye mwenye miaka 2 sasa, 25 years later kwa kukosa huduma nzuri za afya wakati anajifungua!

 

[Kobello]

the right? did you mean exclusive rights barring all other people's rights? The president does not have rights that other people do not have. Rais ana wajibu na majukumu tu yanayotokana na nafasi yake; hatuviiti hivi haki.

Majukumu yake yanampa haki ya kufanya maamuzi ambayo mwananchi wa kawaida hawezi kuyafanya kwa mfano,anaweza kuitisha hali ya dharura....je,we unaweza?Au Slaa anaweza?
If you wanna argue about the constitutionality of his "submission" of the bill we can go there,not the constitutionality of the bill itself,cause i've seen some weaknesses already.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Majukumu yake yanampa haki ya kufanya maamuzi ambayo mwananchi wa kawaida hawezi kuyafanya kwa mfano,anaweza kuitisha hali ya dharura....je,we unaweza?Au Slaa anaweza?
If you wanna argue about the constitutionality of his "submission" of the bill we can go there,not the constitutionality of the bill itself,cause i've seen some weaknesses already.

To tell you the truth mimi ningependa waupeleke mswada huu hivi hivi ulivyo.. I really do.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Majukumu yake yanampa haki ya kufanya maamuzi ambayo mwananchi wa kawaida hawezi kuyafanya kwa mfano,anaweza kuitisha hali ya dharura....je,we unaweza?Au Slaa anaweza?
If you wanna argue about the constitutionality of his "submission" of the bill we can go there,not the constitutionality of the bill itself,cause i've seen some weaknesses already.

Mfano wako si mzuri; hakuna haki ya kuitisha hali ya dharura; anayo madaraka hayo - si haki. Ni uwezo alionao na ambao amepewa na Katiba.