Muswada wa Sheria ya Mapitio ya Katiba: Download na pitia uone kilichomo na usambaze

[Kobello]

Mfano wako si mzuri; hakuna haki ya kuitisha hali ya dharura; anayo madaraka hayo - si haki. Ni uwezo alionao na ambao amepewa na Katiba.

My bad,state of war.....

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

My bad,state of war.....

Still bad example. Nimejaribu kuangalia Katiba kwa haraka haraka kuona kitu kama "haki" ya Rais; bado sijaina. Hata naweza kugrant kwamba kuna mambo ambayo Rais peke yake anaweza kuyafanya na si mtu mwingine, just like kuna mambo ambayo jaji Mkuu/jaji anaweza kuyafanya au wabunge wanaweza kuyafanya na Rais anaweza kuyafanya. Tukitumia a very loose definition ya "haki" tunaweza kusema ni haki yao kuyafanya. Hata hivyo, vizuri zaidi kuyaangalia kama "wajibu unaotokana na madaraka" yao. Yaani, nje ya madaraka hayo hawawezi kuyafanya.

Ndio maana nilikataa wakati ule Kikwete alipodai Bungeni kuwa ana uwezo wa kuamuru Dr. Slaa akamatwe na akakamwata. Nilisema hana uwezo huo kwani ana uwezo "ule tu ambao tumempa kwa kutumia Katiba". Ndio maana kwa mfano, Rais Kikwete hawezi kuunda Tume ya Kupitia Katiba ya sasa ili kuunda Katiba Mpya - kwa sababu kwanza atajikuta matatani kwani aliapa kuilinda na kuihifadhi katiba hii (kama viongozi wengine vilevile); sasa inakuwaje watu walioapa kuilinda, kuitetea na kuihifadhi katiba hii wanataka kuibadilisha?

Ndio maan I totally believe Katiba Mpya inapaswa kuandikwa kwa utaratibu ambao utaweka nguvu kwa wananchi na siyo vyombo mbalimbali. Kwa vile tunachotaka ni Katiba Mpya basi ni sauti za wananchi ndizo zinatakiwa kusikilizwa na ni wananchi wanaotakiwa kusimamia mchakato wa katiba yao. Hii ndio demokrasia halisi. Kama Katiba inatakiwa kutoka kwa watu/wananchi basi mpango mzima wa kuiandika katiba hiyo ni lazima uwe ambao unaweka nguvu ya kuanzia mwanzo hadi mwisho kuwa mikononi mwa wananchi.

 

[Game Theory]

JF is an icredible place

Document imekuwa posted

sasa one would have expected GREATMINDS au GREAT THINKERS wataichanbua hii document thoroughly na kuifanyia analysis vya kutosha then watu wapewe majibu if it was woth the paper it was written on or not

lakini wapi

Tunaishia kubishana kuhusu Dr Slaaa na CCM

I know there are many people ambao wakija humu watataka kusoma analysis za hii document from page 1 to last

I guess itabidi wapelekewe watu wa kitivo cha sheria wainyambue then wairejeshe

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

JF is an icredible place

Document imekuwa posted

sasa one would have expected GREATMINDS au GREAT THINKERS wataichanbua hii document thoroughly na kuifanyia analysis vya kutosha then watu wapewe majibu if it was woth the paper it was written on or not

lakini wapi

Tunaishia kubishana kuhusu Dr Slaaa na CCM

I know there are many people ambao wakija humu watataka kusoma analysis za hii document from page 1 to last

I guess itabidi wapelekewe watu wa kitivo cha sheria wainyambue then wairejeshe

Wewe ni mmoja wa watu walioko JF. Na umeona imeshapostiwa hapa. Well.. do the needful... au hizo great minds ni za wengine tu?

 

[Taso]

kwanza atajikuta matatani kwani aliapa kuilinda na kuihifadhi katiba hii (kama viongozi wengine vilevile); sasa inakuwaje watu walioapa kuilinda, kuitetea na kuihifadhi katiba hii wanataka kuibadilisha?

Si kweli. Rais anatekeleza kiapo chake cha kulinda kipengele kinachotoa ruhusa kubadlisha Katiba.

KATIBA YA JAMHURI YA MUUNGANO WA TANZANIA, 1977, Ibara 98 (1)
``Bunge laweza kutunga Sheria kwa ajili ya kubadilisha masharti yoyote ya Katiba hii``

 

[Zitto]

The bottom line ni kuwa wapinzani watajikuta wanafanya makosa mawili makubwa:

a. Wakiendelea kupinga mswada huu bila ya kuja na wa kwao wataonekana wanategemea huruma ya serikali. Kama ilivyodokezwa hapo juu wanao wabunge Bungeni, basi waje na mswada wao wa wanavyotaka mchakato wa Katiba uweje. Miswada hiyo miwili wa serikali na wapinzani itashindanishwa na ule mzuri upite. Hili litalazimisha process ya reconciliation ya miswada ili upatikane mzuri zaidi.

b. Wasipoleta mswada wao wenyewe tofauti na ule unaoletwa na serikali, na wakabakia kulalamika na kupiga kura ya "hapana" au kutoka Bungeni haitabadilisha hali halisi, CCM itauteka rasmi mkataba wa Katiba na CCM itaanza mchakato wa Katiba mpya. Sasa ukishapitishwa ulivyo una vipengele vya kuzuia kupinga process nzima. Maana yake wapinzani hawataweza kabisa kuupinga bila kusababisha machafuko nchini.

Well, hapa wanajikuta wanalazimika kufanya maamuzi magumu.

A. Wakiendelea kuupinga nje ya Bunge wataambiwa si mje Bungeni mlete hoja zenu?
b. Wakienda Bungeni na kushindwa - yaani mswada ukipita ulivyo - kama ulivyopita ule wa Gharama za Uchaguzi - watajikuta wako katika huruma ya serikali kwani hawatoweza kuupinga na kwa vile tayari wao wameshagawanyika nina uhakika wapo watakaotaka wakubaliane na serikali na wengine watasema wasikubaliane.
c. Uchaguzi ujao utafanyika kwa Katiba Mpya itakayotungwa na kupitishwa na Wana CCM!!!

This is what is to be done. Solution based approach. Hii pinga pinga tu bila alternative inaonyesha tu wavivu wa kufanya kazi. We must have our Bill. Huu ndio Upinzani wenye tija, tunawapa raia alternative.

As Deputy Leader of the Opposition, nimemshauri Waziri wetu Kivuli wa Katiba Ndugu Lissu aandae muswada wetu wa mchakato wa mabadiliko ya Katiba.

 

[Obe]

Jambo kama hili kuwa katika lugha inayoongewa na watu wachache hapa nchini inaashiria tatizo, ninaelewa kuwa miswada mingi huandikwa kizungu na nadhani hapa pana sababu(utegemezi, na kuombea pesa nje !!!). Nilitegemea mchakato huu tangu unaanza ungeeleweka kwa wengi, namaanisha kwanini usiandikwe kiswahili!
Na ni lazima ieleweke kuwa Kiswahili hakipo hapa nchini kwa ajili ya kukitafasiri kiingereza.
hili la kuwafunga watu miaka miwili linashangaza na ni mpango maalum wa kuwaziba mdomo wanaharakati ambao watajitahidi kuuelemisha umma ili ushiriki wao katika mchakato huu uwe ushiriki jenzi.
Haya makatazo ninayoyaona, hayasaidii chochote na bado yanaturudisha kulekule kwa kina Msekwa wanajifungia chumbani na kuja na katiba ya Tz!
kenya wametuonyesha njia kwani sisi tunatenegeneza vichochoro, kampeni zipigwe kwani muafaka wa katiba unahusika zaidi na siasa

 

[kipindupindu]

Je,tunakubali kuwa serikali iliyopo ni serikali iliyoundwa kidemokrasia?Nikimaanisha,wabunge waliopo wamechaguliwa kidemokrasia?....na rais aliyepo amechaguliwa kidemokrasia?(mnaamini watanzania wengi walimpa kura ya ndio kikwete kuliko Slaa?

hapana!mchakato wa kumpata rais na wabunge una mapungufu ya kidemokrasia but hii haisemi viongozi waliopo si halali.kwa kuwa mchakato ni mbovu tuna wajibu wa kuubadilisha kwa kutumia viongozi hawahawa ambao ni halali kwa mujibu katiba ya sasa.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

This is what is to be done. Solution based approach. Hii pinga pinga tu bila alternative inaonyesha tu wavivu wa kufanya kazi. We must have our Bill. Huu ndio Upinzani wenye tija, tunawapa raia alternative.

As Deputy Leader of the Opposition, nimemshauri Waziri wetu Kivuli wa Katiba Ndugu Lissu aandae muswada wetu wa mchakato wa mabadiliko ya Katiba.

Nimependa hii sana kwa sababu ina matokeo: Mswada wenu wenyewe ukienda na ukakataliwa na wana CCM na wakakataa reconciliation ya kuonesha compromise na wakapitisha ya kwao with minimal changes (ambayo yanaweza yasikubalike kwenu) inakuwaje mbeleni?

Kwa sababu to tell you the truth nimeupenda kweli mswada wa serikali na ninaombea waulete hivyo hivyo ulivyo na upande mwingine na nyie mje na wenu and the best idea ishinde.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Si kweli. Rais anatekeleza kiapo chake cha kulinda kipengele kinachotoa ruhusa kubadlisha Katiba.

KATIBA YA JAMHURI YA MUUNGANO WA TANZANIA, 1977, Ibara 98 (1)
``Bunge laweza kutunga Sheria kwa ajili ya kubadilisha masharti yoyote ya Katiba hii``

once again, soma nilichoandika!!! Nitalazimika kukufafanulia neno kwa neno.

 

[Mag3]

Well,if you believe at least the parliament to be legal,

it could be legal but definitely not legitimate for there was never an equal playing field at the election.

i.e it represents the mass proportionally

No it doesnt, representation varies and ranges between 5,000 and 500,000 - and all in one country !

then submit your motion to the floor and lobby for the votes/support

Majority of members, especially from CCM, are not free to exercise their rights, they quickly get into their shell - Kamati ya Wabunge wa CCM where their hands are tied, their vision blocked, their views silenced and their hearing shut !

,if not try 2015 may be you will have the majority in the parliament

In 2015 we will be back to square one if we dont act now and that's what CCM is praying for.

Just because you get crowds in your demos doesn't constitute that your party has the majority support.

How else do you tell if a party has majority support - CCM won because it was both the prosecutor and executor.

After half a century this country, endowed with everything from natural resources to arable land, is still languishing amongst the poorest and wretched of the earth and it's all a result of inept leadership. The sad part is that we have a corrupt system that makes it possible for the greedy and avaricious to buy their way into power and then turn their backs to the people who unknowingly elected them. As a result the country has become a breeding ground for a culture of opportunism and incompetency giving room to opportunists who dont even know why they sought power int the first place.

The only reason why these unscrupulous and dishonest individuals thrive is because over the years they have managed to build a constitutional immunity to legitimize their evil actions. The constitution as we have it now is a sham and unless it undergoes a complete overhaul, fellow Tanzanian we are in for a hiding for many more years to come. It is sad that there are people who who prefer things to stay the way they are and Kobello is surely one of them but since when did a hyena voluntarily agree to share the proceeds of a hunt with a lamb.

Contrary to what some may think, the road to a new constitution is rough and getting there wont be easy without a fight and a few bruises here and there. The thing that encourages me is that with or without obstacles there is nobody, no army and no gun that can permanently block the path to freedom and emancipation that a people's constitution brings. Kikwete, Bunge or CCM will use delay tactics, coax and cajole or even use the police to break a few heads but our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be proud that we never wavered in our resolve for a better future for them.

Long live Tanzania !
​

 

[Game Theory]

Wewe ni mmoja wa watu walioko JF. Na umeona imeshapostiwa hapa. Well.. do the needful... au hizo great minds ni za wengine tu?

tatizo sie wengine hatukuenda shule ndio maana huwa tunakaa pembeni kuwaachia wasomi na wachambuzi watufanyie huo uchambuzi yakinifu

 

[Ngisibara]

wenzenu wamewabeep tu.. ili kupata credit mbeleni kuwa walicompromise..

Milele na milele Aminaaaaaaa!

 

[Selous]

Nimependa hii sana kwa sababu ina matokeo: Mswada wenu wenyewe ukienda na ukakataliwa na wana CCM na wakakataa reconciliation ya kuonesha compromise na wakapitisha ya kwao with minimal changes (ambayo yanaweza yasikubalike kwenu) inakuwaje mbeleni?

Kwa sababu to tell you the truth nimeupenda kweli mswada wa serikali na ninaombea waulete hivyo hivyo ulivyo na upande mwingine na nyie mje na wenu and the best idea ishinde.

Mwanakiji,

Najua wataleta japo opposition itakuwa vipande vipande. Tangu lini best idea ikashinda pale bungeni? au unamaanisha nini?

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

tatizo sie wengine hatukuenda shule ndio maana huwa tunakaa pembeni kuwaachia wasomi na wachambuzi watufanyie huo uchambuzi yakinifu

Kama hili ni kweli basi ilibidi ulalamikie wasomi na wachambuzi siyo JF, maana JF the Home of Great Thinkers inawahusisha wote wasomi na wasio wasomi, alimradi wanaweza kufikiri.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Mwanakiji,

Najua wataleta japo opposition itakuwa vipande vipande. Tangu lini best idea ikashinda pale bungeni? au unamaanisha nini?

Well.. hata sina uhakika; so far kwa ajili ya 2015 the best idea ni kwa CCM kupitisha hii sheria haraka iwezekanavyo bila kuifanyia mabadiliko yoyote.

 

[Kobello]

After half a century this country, endowed with everything from natural resources to arable land, is still languishing amongst the poorest and wretched of the earth and it's all a result of inept leadership. The sad part is that we have a corrupt system that makes it possible for the greedy and avaricious to buy their way into power and then turn their backs to the people who unknowingly elected them. As a result the country has become a breeding ground for a culture of opportunism and incompetency giving room to opportunists who dont even know why they sought power int the first place.

The only reason why these unscrupulous and dishonest individuals thrive is because over the years they have managed to build a constitutional immunity to legitimize their evil actions. The constitution as we have it now is a sham and unless it undergoes a complete overhaul, fellow Tanzanian we are in for a hiding for many more years to come. It is sad that there are people who who prefer things to stay the way they are and Kobello is surely one of them but since when did a hyena voluntarily agree to share the proceeds of a hunt with a lamb.

Contrary to what some may think, the road to a new constitution is rough and getting there wont be easy without a fight and a few bruises here and there. The thing that encourages me is that with or without obstacles there is nobody, no army and no gun that can permanently block the path to freedom and emancipation that a people's constitution brings. Kikwete, Bunge or CCM will use delay tactics, coax and cajole or even use the police to break a few heads but our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be proud that we never wavered in our resolve for a better future for them.

Long live Tanzania !​

Submit your own bill and let the people choose!!.....you can cry all you want,or you
can draft an alternative bill.Facts are facts,we went to the polls and the oppostion lost!

 

[Kimbunga]

Seems like you question the presidency...as in who got the majority votes in 2010,you believe Slaa and I believe it's JK

Hapa kuna suala la kujadili muswada wa kutupelekea kupata katiba mpya ili katiba hiyo iweze kuondoa ama kumaliza mapungufu yote ambayo tumekuwa tukiyapigia kelele ikiwa ni pamoja na mchakato wa uchaguzi pamoja na kutangaza matokeo. Katiba iliyopo ndio ilitufikisha hapa tulipo. Bila kuwa na sheria nzuri ya kuongoza mchakato wa katiba ni hakika tutapata katiba mbovu, if at all itakuwa ni mpya. Ombi langu tujadili jinsi ya kupata sheria nzuri itakayoliongoza taifa kuelekea kupata Katiba mpya. Tuakianza kusigishana juu ya nani alishinda uchaguzi tutakuwa tunapoteza fursa nzuri ya kujiletea katiba nzuri. Aliyetangazwa mshindi kwa MUJIBU WA KATIBA NDIYE MSHINDI hata mpingane na kutoa macho. Tukiacha fursa hii tutakuja kupingana tena juu ya nani alishinda kwa kuwa katiba itakayozaliwa na sheria hii haitakuwa tofauti na hii iliyopo. VICIOUS CIRCLE!!! TUJADILI HATUNA MUDA

 

[Kobello]

Hapa kuna suala la kujadili muswada wa kutupelekea kupata katiba mpya ili katiba hiyo iweze kuondoa ama kumaliza mapungufu yote ambayo tumekuwa tukiyapigia kelele ikiwa ni pamoja na mchakato wa uchaguzi pamoja na kutangaza matokeo. Katiba iliyopo ndio ilitufikisha hapa tulipo. Bila kuwa na sheria nzuri ya kuongoza mchakato wa katiba ni hakika tutapata katiba mbovu, if at all itakuwa ni mpya. Ombi langu tujadili jinsi ya kupata sheria nzuri itakayoliongoza taifa kuelekea kupata Katiba mpya. Tuakianza kusigishana juu ya nani alishinda uchaguzi tutakuwa tunapoteza fursa nzuri ya kujiletea katiba nzuri. Aliyetangazwa mshindi kwa MUJIBU WA KATIBA NDIYE MSHINDI hata mpingane na kutoa macho. Tukiacha fursa hii tutakuja kupingana tena juu ya nani alishinda kwa kuwa katiba itakayozaliwa na sheria hii haitakuwa tofauti na hii iliyopo. VICIOUS CIRCLE!!! TUJADILI HATUNA MUDA

Good! mimi nipo poa tu na katiba iliyopo,but I am anxious to see what the opposition comes up with....I can't wait!!

 

[Kimbunga]

Good! mimi nipo poa tu na katiba iliyopo,but I am anxious to see what the opposition comes up with....I can't wait!!

Hapo sawa. Kama wewe uko poa na katiba iliyopo ni haki yako kwa kuwa Watanzania millioni zaidi ya 40 hatuwezi wote kusema kuwa katiba iliyopo ni mbaya. Nadhani ndio ukomavu huo na unatekeleza demokrasia yako. Kwa maana hiyo sitegemei kuona mtu yeyote akikushambulia kwa kuwa unaona katiba iliyopo ni poa tu. Nasema hivyo kwa kuwa hivi karibuni watu ndani ya JF wamekosa uvumilivu na kutaka kuwalazimisha wenzao wakubaliane na mawazo yao bila kutoa hoja na hata kama mawazo yao (ya kulazimisha) hayana mashiko yoyote.