Battle: Dar es Salaam vs Nairobi

[babayao255]

Cha ajabu hao wachina sasa hivi wanawapapasa wakenya balaa

Hivi wewe unajua uhusiano wa China na Tanzania au unajiongelea tuu?

Watu tumekuwa na uhusiano na wachina toka 60's na kuwasaidia kupata kiti UN kwa ushawishi wa Nyerere chini ya Dr. Salim, bifu lilikuwa kubwa mpaka Ronald Reagan wakati huo governor wa California akachanganyikiwa na kumpigia simu Nixon akitukana (hizi recodi za sauti kutukana zimetolewa juzi tu hapa na library of congress).

Huyo Reagan mwaka 1982 akiwa Rais wa Marekani serikali yake ikapiga kura ya veto kumzuia Dr. Salim asiwe katibu mkuu wa UN kwasababu yeye ndiye aliyewawezesha China kuwa na kiti cha UN badala ya Taiwan, miaka 10 iliyopita. Halafu eti leo ninyi ndiyo wa kutufundisha kuhusu umuhimu wa China?

 

[Nicxie]

...which gave the British empire a custodial position to watch over the country until it's ready to rule itself...
This is very misleading. My history books tell me that Tanzania, just like any other country under colonial rule, fought fought tooth and nail to gain self-rule. Your independence didn't come on a silver platter as you are trying to put it. You fought for it and even lost many lives in the process. All this because the British resisted your attempts to get independent meaning they were not just custodians as you put it. They had vested interests in Tanganyika; interests that they were ready to defend through thick and thin.

You simply don't know the history.

Tanganyika was a German colony, before they were kicked out in 1918. In their 20 some years of ruling they invested heavily in the country. Evidence of that is all over the country to this day, especially in areas like Bagamoyo, Tanga, Kilimanjaro, Dar es alaam and most importanly the Central and Usambara railway line.

After WWI Tanganyika became the British protectorate, under the league of nations (UN), which gave the British empire a custodial position to watch over the country until it's ready to rule itself. The British didn't do much investment in their 43 year rule of Tanganyika which is understanderble as it wasn't a colony. This also mean that, Nairobi was built by the British for 77 years while Dar was only built for 25years . The question you need to ask yourself is who built Dar es salaam then?

.which gave the British empire a custodial position to watch over the country until it's ready to rule itself...
This is very misleading. My history books tell me that Tanzania, just like any other country under colonial rule, fought tooth and nail to gain self-rule. Your independence didn't come on a silver platter as you are trying to put it. You fought for it and even lost many lives in the process. All this because the British resisted your attempts to get independent meaning they were not just custodians as you put it. They were not just there wondering when you will ever be ready to govern yourselves. They were colonizing you and doing everything else they did in other colonies.They had vested interests in Tanganyika; interests that they were ready to defend through thick and thin, even if it meant denying you independence. The simple fact why British took over after Germans left is because they were the colonizers of the neighbouring countries so they wanted to enhance their influence in the region.

What interests me most is when Tanzanians start saying that Nairobi and Kenya in general was developed by whites forgetting that the same whites they claim developed kenya also colonised them. Why did the. whites choose to "develop" Kenya and not Tanzania?

 

[Bwana254]

Lol.....But dar is still greatly underdeveloped. If 90% of it is covered in uswazi hovels .....it's stuck in a rut.....The average tanzanian only thinks about building his own house and that's it.
Let me give you a secret Tanzanians....form SACCOs or housing cooperatives that will start formalizing your housing sector or else you will continue being emotional and denying your acute proper housing project while the rest of the world is moving

There's no way this Dar city with a GDP of about $27bn will beat Nairobi a city with a GDP of $54bn in development .Hawa waTz wanaota mchana.

 

[Nicxie]

Lol.....But dar is still greatly underdeveloped. If 90% of it is covered in uswazi hovels .....it's stuck in a rut.....The average tanzanian only thinks about building his own house and that's it.
Let me give you a secret Tanzanians....form SACCOs or housing cooperatives that will start formalizing your housing sector or else you will continue being emotional and denying your acute proper housing project while the rest of the world is moving

By the way SACCOs have done great things in Kenya, not just in the housing sector but in many other areas. The spirit pulling resources together is within us as Kenyans as enshrined in our national philosophy Harambee

Lol.....But dar is still greatly underdeveloped. If 90% of it is covered in uswazi hovels .....it's stuck in a rut.....The average tanzanian only thinks about building his own house and that's it.
Let me give you a secret Tanzanians....form SACCOs or housing cooperatives that will start formalizing your housing sector or else you will continue being emotional and denying your acute proper housing project while the rest of the world is moving

 

[Chamoto]

Cha ajabu hao wachina sasa hivi wanawapapasa wakenya balaa

Wanadandia treni kwa mbele.

 

[babayao255]

Sasa mbona bado mnapokea misaada ya chakula hata hamna aibu kujisifia ujinga.

There's no way this Dar city with a GDP of about $27bn will beat Nairobi a city with a GDP of $54bn in development .Hawa waTz wanaota mchana.

 

[Chamoto]

...which gave the British empire a custodial position to watch over the country until it's ready to rule itself...
This is very misleading. My history books tell me that Tanzania, just like any other country under colonial rule, fought fought tooth and nail to gain self-rule. Your independence didn't come on a silver platter as you are trying to put it. You fought for it and even lost many lives in the process. All this because the British resisted your attempts to get independent meaning they were not just custodians as you put it. They had vested interests in Tanganyika; interests that they were ready to defend through thick and thin.

If Tanganyika fought for her independece like the rest of Africa what was Nyerere doing in New York during the struggles for independece? Why didn't he go to London instead?

What interests me most is when Tanzanians start saying that Nairobi and Kenya in general was developed by whites forgetting that the same whites they claim developed kenya also colonised them. Why did the. whites choose to "develop" Kenya and not Tanzania?

It wasn't a matter of choice for the British to build Nairobi, it was their property for heaven's sake. Tanganyika on the other hand was under the league of nations and later on united nation (UN).

To school you more, the British settlers didn't even have the rights to own land in Tanganyika because UN was the sore owner. When we gained independence Nyerere adopted the same land policy that was formulated by the league of nations in the '20s, and that is... the government is the sole owner of the land in Tanzania and the president as a trustee. If you didn't know now you know!

 

[Chamoto]

There's no way this Dar city with a GDP of about $27bn will beat Nairobi a city with a GDP of $54bn in development .Hawa waTz wanaota mchana.

World Bank Values Dar's Real Estate U.S.$3 Billion More Than Nairobi

 

[Bwana254]

Sasa mbona bado mnapokea misaada ya chakula hata hamna aibu kujisifia ujinga.

Hata Marekani pia walipokea misaada kutoka nchi mbali mbali baada ya hurricane Katrina kuleta maafa makubwa New Orleans (Qatar donated $400m ) kwa hivyo wacha ujinga na ujuaji mwingi.

 

[Nicxie]

If Tanganyika fought for her independece like the rest of Africa what was Nyerere doing in New York during the struggles for independece? Why didn't he go to London instead?

It wasn't a matter of choice for the British to build Nairobi, it was their property for heaven's sake. Tanganyika on the other hand was under the league of nations and later on united nation organization (UNO).

To school you more, the British settlers didn't even have the rights to own land in Tanganyika because UNO was the sore owner. When we gained independence Nyerere adopted the same land policies that was formulated by the league of nations in the '20s, that... the government is the sole owner of the land in Tanzania and the president is the trustee. If you didn't know now you know!

"When you gained independence". From who? UN?

 

[Chamoto]

"When you gained independence". From who? UN?

Tanzania was never a British colony, get your facts right.

 

[Nicxie]

Hivi wewe unajua uhusiano wa China na Tanzania au unajiongelea tuu?

Watu tumekuwa na uhusiano na wachina toka 60's na kuwasaidia kupata kiti UN kwa ushawishi wa Nyerere chini ya Dr. Salim, bifu lilikuwa kubwa mpaka Ronald Reagan wakati huo governor wa California akachanganyikiwa na kumpigia simu Nixon akitukana (hizi recodi za sauti kutukana zimetolewa juzi juzi tu hapa na library of congress).

Huyo Reagan mwaka 1982 akiwa Rais wa Marekani serikali yake ikapiga kura ya veto kumzuia Dr. Salim asiwe katibu mkuu wa UN. Isingekuwa veto hiyo, angekewa katibu mkuu wa kwanza kutoka Afrika hata kabla ya Boutros Ghali wa Eigypt. Rais Reagan hakumpenda Dr. Salim kwasababu yeye ndiye aliyewawezesha China kuwa na kiti cha UN badala ya Taiwan baada ya kufanya ushawishi kwa nchi za Afrika kuipigia China mwaka '71. Halafu eti leo ninyi ndiyo wa kutufundisha kuhusu umuhimu wa China?

Lobying ni kitu inafanyika kila wakati on international matters so hii sio kitu geni uanze kuona ni kama haijawahi fanyika. Even right now, Kenya is lobying for friendly states to support her bid in becoming a member of the UN Security Council. Dr. Salim kivyake hawegeweza kusaidia China kupata hio kiti. Of course the influence of Dr Salim played a major role but that was not all it took for China to get that seat. It did a lot of lobying and this requires a lot of money

 

[Nicxie]

Tanzania was never a British colony, get your facts right.

Tanzania gained independence in 1961. At least according to what I know. What does that tell you?

 

[Chamoto]

Lobying ni kitu inafanyika kila wakati on international matters so hii sio kitu geni uanze kuona ni kama haijawahi fanyika. Even right now, Kenya is lobying for friendly states to support her bid in becoming a member of the UN Security Council. Dr. Salim kivyake hawegeweza kusaidia China kupata hio kiti. Of course the influence of Dr Salim played a major role but that was not all it took for China to get that seat. It did a lot of lobying and this requires a lot of money

Ushawishi ulifanywa na Tanzania pale Addis ilikupata kura nyingi za nchi za Afrika na Nyerere alishawishi nchi wanachama wa NAM (non aliment movement). Hivi ninyi kama nchi mlishawahi kushawishi nini, kikafanikiwa?

 

[Chamoto]

Tanzania gained independence in 1961. At least according to what I know. What does that tell you?

Do you know the difference between a protectorate (Tanganyika) and a colony(Kenya)?

 

[Nicxie]

If Tanganyika fought for her independece like the rest of Africa what was Nyerere doing in New York during the struggles for independece? Why didn't he go to London instead?

It wasn't a matter of choice for the British to build Nairobi, it was their property for heaven's sake. Tanganyika on the other hand was under the league of nations and later on united nation organization (UNO).

To school you more, the British settlers didn't even have the rights to own land in Tanganyika because UNO was the sore owner. When we gained independence Nyerere adopted the same land policies that was formulated by the league of nations in the '20s, that... the government is the sole owner of the land in Tanzania and the president is the trustee. If you didn't know now you know!

You are one of the few Tanzanians here I like to debate with because you approach issues with a sober mind. I didnt see that part you mentioned Nyerere being in New York if it's indeed true that Tanzania faught for her independence. Before I answer that question, please answer this one for me: What was Maji Maji rebellion in Tanzania formed for if not to push for independence? What were they rebelling against? I read my history books well so you can't challenge me on this.

Back to your question about Nyerere being in New York while the rest of African states were fighting for independence. There could be varied reasons for this depending on how long he stayed there. Maybe he was seeking medical services, maybe he just went there to busk in the sandy beaches of Hawaii. There could be a million explanations to this.

But the most practical reason could be that he went there to negotiate for independence. As you may already know, independence in many African states was negotiated. Jomo Kenyatta, Oginga Oginga and other leaders from Kenya frequented Lancaster House in London negotiating for Kenya's independence. Does it mean that Kenyatta's presence in London at that time meant people back home were not fighting for independence? Your guess is as good as mine

 

[Chamoto]

You are one of the few Tanzanians here I like to debate with because you approach issues with a sober mind. I didnt see that part you mentioned Nyerere being in New York if it's indeed true that Tanzania faught for her independence. Before I answer that question, please answer this one for me: What was Maji Maji rebellion in Tanzania formed for if not to push for independence? What were they rebelling against? I read my history books well so you can't challenge me on this.

Maji maji rebellion (1905-7) was an attempt to resist German forces expansion in the southern part of Tanganyika, it happened when Tanganyika was a German colony (1884-1914). This was way before Nyerere was born.

Back to your question about Nyerere being in New York while the rest of African states were fighting for independence. There could be varied reasons for this depending on how long he stayed there. Maybe he was seeking medical services, maybe he just went there to busk in the sandy beaches of Hawaii. There could be a million explanations to this.

So, Nyerere was going for a medical checkup in NYC, in 1950s? Wow! He was just a school teacher, he didn't even have the money to buy himself a plane ticket let alone afford medical expenses in a foreign country. The party (TANU) did pay for his trip.

But the most practical reason could be that he went there to negotiate for independence. As you may already know, independence in many African states was negotiated. Jomo Kenyatta, Oginga Oginga and other leaders from Kenya frequented Lancaster House in London negotiating for Kenya's independence. Does it mean that Kenyatta's presence in London at that time meant people back home were not fighting for independence? Your guess is as good as mine

Most African countries had to fight for their Independence. Tanganyika on the other hand didn't have to, all she had to do was to prove that she was ready and prepared. The British really didn't have any say once the UN gave us a go ahead, remember, it was the league of nations that gave the British a mandate to watch over us, after the war.

 

[Bwana254]

World Bank Values Dar's Real Estate U.S.$3 Billion More Than Nairobi

Nairobi had real estate construction projects worth $6bn in the pipeline by the time of Kidero's departure .That's almost half of Tz annual national budget so your point is moot.

 

[Chamoto]

Nairobi had real estate construction projects worth $6bn in the pipeline by the time of Kidero's departure .That's almost half of Tz annual national budget so your point is moot.

What don't you understand when someone says more than?

 

[kifusi boy]

Tambaza Secondary School - UpangaView attachment 1210781View attachment 1210782

My advanced school though