Battle: Dar es Salaam vs Nairobi

Battle: Dar es Salaam vs Nairobi

The great jay said:
Kasome replies zangu kabla hujajibu mzee.
Ukikuta mahali nimeongelea ukabila au ukanda ni tag nifute iyo comment ..
Kumention neno ukanda au ukabila tyr ww ndio unaleta story za kijinga kuna wakati huku wote watz na ke niliwahi kuwasema hapa kuhusu utu kwa pande zote mbili achana na kuniambia nachochea ukabila na hata juu nimeacha post nyingi kujibu
na kulike zote negative na positive ili topic isigawanye watu wala kwenda nlikokuwa sifikirii.
Ukiona unawaza ukabila au ukanda jua huna hoja kuhusu unachokiongea, ndio mtu akikosa hoja hutumia maneno yenye kugawa watu ndio unachokichochea hata kama mtu anaongea au kuhubiri ukabila we tafuta point usinganganize kukemea au kunyoosha kidole maana hata ww utakuwa ni mkabila tokea mwanzo nimeongelea kuhusu sgr ya mbamba bay kwa hiyo me ni mkabila wa kusini na kazkazini .

Argument bora ikoje mkuu? Sehemu kubwa nimejibu kwa fact na tu leta mahali nlipojibu bila kuargue vizuri na link ulizoomba nilikuletea ila bado nikawaambia time will determine ili mjadala uishe .
mambo ya berth na pipeline na mengineyo mkuu mimi nafatilia na nnajua how good we move kuongelea sgr ya musoma ni kama ninavo comment hapa kuhusu lolote lile nnaloona nnalijua na nnaweza kuuliza ila view yako ndio imekuza hii kitu kuonekana ni ya kibinafsi wakati ni swala nililouliza ti ni sawa na kuuliza tutajenga lini daraja mtera, ila topic. Mmeiweka in dfrnt view kabisa
Hakuna mahali nimeshambulia mtu ila ukileta ujuaji lazima uambiwe.
Tusikuze mjadala
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kwanini ume-mention ukanda au ukabila? huoni hoja tunazozitoa humu? kwamba ujenzi wa SGR Tanga-Arusha-Musoma lazma Uganda waji-commit as partners la sivyo hai-make sense as Port-Bell-Mwanza-Dar port route is to do the same?
 
Hivi swala la
Geza Ulole said:
Jamaa bado wanaugulia wengine wanajipa moyo EACOP itakosa financing backup

Magufuli stabs Kenya in fight for EA oil wealth
By DOMNIC OMONDI | September 15th 2020 at 12:00:00 GMT +0300
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After warding off stiff competition from Kenya for years over the building of a crude oil pipeline from Uganda, Tanzania has moved closer to clinching the deal.
On Sunday, Tanzania and Uganda signed an agreement for the construction of a Sh378 billion East African Crude Oil Pipeline from Hoima in western Uganda to the port of Tanga, a move expected to breathe life into Tanzania’s Central Corridor, which has been competing with Kenya’s Northern Corridor.

Uganda had initially planned to transport its oil through Kenya, which wanted a joint facility for the product from its own fields in Turkana County.

But the signing of the agreement over the weekend at a meeting attended by Tanzania’s President John Magufuli and Uganda’s President Yoweri Museveni brings Dar es Salaam’s coup against Kenya closer to success.

Kenya – which has an estimated 560 million barrels of recoverable oil against Uganda’s 1.6 billion barrels – had eyed the infrastructure as part of its grand plan to become a “preferred regional petroleum transporter of choice”, according to official documents.

Critical anchor
The planned Uganda-Kenya Crude Oil Pipeline (UKCOP) was a critical anchor of the multi-billion-shilling Lamu Port-South Sudan-Ethiopia Transport (Lapsset) Corridor.

However, Magufuli, nicknamed ‘bulldozer’ for the way he rams through his policies, appears to have spoilt the party for Kenya, winning a crucial battle in the long drawn-out war for control of the region’s oil wealth.

Tanzania is expected to earn $3.24 billion (Sh349 billion) from the pipeline and create at least 18,000 jobs over the next 25 years.
However, Petroleum Principal Secretary Andrew Kamau downplayed the impact of the agreement, saying it was an affair between Tanzania and Uganda.

“It has nothing to do with us. They were always going to build a pipeline,” said Kamau.

But there are those who will not give up on the country’s chances of courting Uganda back.

“I wouldn’t give up still. Until they get financing for it and they start construction, that is when you know definitely it is gone,” said Charles Wanguhu, a social activist and co-ordinator of the Kenya Civil Society Platform on Oil and Gas.

Wanguhu said a lot is likely to happen this year, particularly with the outbreak of Covid-19, which lowered demand for oil and led to its price hitting record lows.

“It is not very clear yet how Covid-19 has impacted the oil and gas sector, so even financiers of the pipeline might be difficult to come by,” he said.

Wanguhu added that the combined oil reserves for Uganda and Kenya were likely to be more attractive to a financier than Uganda’s or Kenya’s alone.

Control and influence
However, as part of the bigger regional war for the control and influence of the economy, experts insist that the only way for Kenya to gain a competitive edge is by finalising and operationalising the Lamu Port.

Gerishon Ikiara, an economist and former Transport PS, noted that Uganda and Tanzania have for a while not been happy with the continued dominance of the Kenyan economy in the region.

“Now they (Uganda and Tanzania) are doing all kinds of things in an effort to come up and compete effectively with Kenya,” he said, giving the example of the volume of trade where Uganda has significantly slashed its trade deficit with Kenya by inviting foreign investors who have developed industries within its borders.

He noted that for these countries, it is competitiveness of infrastructure that will win the day, and this is where the crude oil export pipeline falls.

But it is still uncertain when a final investment decision (FID) on Kenya’s oil will be completed, which would set the stage for the commercial production of oil from Turkana’s Lokichar area.

Commercial production of oil is a precursor for the development of the Lamu Port.

Initially, it seemed as though Kenya had successfully won over Uganda, and the crude pipeline would snake its way from the oilfields in northern and western Uganda through Kenya’s oilfields in Lokichar before getting to Lamu County.

Wanguhu noted that a joint crude pipeline was the most viable option as both oil producers would enjoy economies of scale.

Joint initiative
In April 2013, Uganda signed a deal with Tullow Oil, Total SA of France and the China National Offshore Oil Corporation to build both an oil refinery and the pipeline.

“The MoU lays out a market framework for Uganda as a future oil producer, consisting of a crude export pipeline from the Lake Albert Basin to the Kenyan coast, to be developed in parallel with a right-sized petroleum refinery and the use of petroleum for power generation. The Ugandan and Kenyan Governments have in principle agreed joint initiatives for a crude oil pipeline,” said Tullow in its 2013 annual report.

The pipeline’s entire length will have to be heated to keep the waxy oil found in both countries in a molten state for easy evacuation.

In 2014, the two countries settled on Toyota Tsusho as th consultant for the pipeline. But then in early 2016, Uganda, started having a change of heart, with presidents Museveni and Magufuli announcing plans to build a competing oil pipeline.

PS Kamau, however, maintains: “They are going to build a pipeline and we are going to build ours. One has nothing to do with the other.”

But the fight for the construction of the pipeline has widened the rift between Kenya and Tanzania. At some point, Energy Cabinet Secretary Charles Keter, his PS Joseph Njoroge, Kamau and Lapsset CEO Sylvester Kasuku were denied entry into Tanga Port and their passports confiscated.

The three were reported to have gone to the region alongside a Ugandan delegation for the inspection of the port that is competing with Lamu and Mombasa as the exit point for Uganda’s petroleum in Hoima

Tanzanian authorities said they had not been informed of the visit by the Kenyan delegation. The Kenyan team insisted Dar es Salaam was aware of their visit and that they had gone to into the country to participate in joint talks between Uganda and Tanzania on the dispute over Uganda’s oil pipeline.

Magufuli stabs Kenya in fight for EA oil wealth
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Hivi swala la financing liko vp mkuu?
 
Ntaghacha said:
Hivi swala la

Hivi swala la financing liko vp mkuu?
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Mbona tayari Standard Bank, Africa's biggest lender, and Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation wameji-commit! Don't be worried yaani baada ya hii step ya this weekend kinachofuata FID inafuata na mradi unaanza niko very sure first half 2021 kitu cha ujenzi kitaanza!
 
Geza Ulole said:
kwanini ume-mention ukanda au ukabila? huoni hoja tunazozitoa humu? kwamba ujenzi wa SGR Tanga-Arusha-Musoma lazma Uganda waji-commit as partners la sivyo hai-make sense as Port-Bell-Mwanza-Dar port route is to do the same?
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Achana na huu mjadala, sioni kama unakoelekea ni kuzuri Sana

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Geza Ulole said:
Mbona tayari Standard Bank, Africa's biggest lender, and Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation wameji-commit! Don't be worried yaani baada ya hii step ya this weekend kinachofuata FID inafuata na mradi unaanza niko very sure first half 2021 kitu cha ujenzi kitaanza!
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Asante kunijuza, maanake naona nyang'au wanasubiri tukose mfadhili ili wapitie humo humo.
 
ichoboy01 said:
bado tu wanalia 😂😂😂

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Why Kenya lost Uganda pipeline deal
Tuesday, September 15, 2020
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Workers on a Kenya Pipeline Company extension project. Uganda signed a crude oil pipeline agreement with Tanzania to explore the Tanga route.
File | Nation Media Group
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By Paul Wafula
What you need to know:
  • Uganda said it dropped Kenya after it realised it would be cheaper using Tanzania’s Tanga port.
  • The fact that the Tanga port was already operational gave it an edge over Lamu, which is still under construction.
Nearly four years after Uganda abandoned Kenya in building an oil pipeline that would have transported its oil to Lamu, it has now officially signed a Sh410 billion ($3.5 billion) deal with Tanzania, leaving Nairobi to walk alone.

The deal signed on Sunday between President John Magufuli and his Ugandan counterpart Yoweri Museveni will see Kampala route its oil exports through Tanzania, through the 1,445-kilometre crude oil pipeline.

President Magufuli said after inking the deal in his home town of Chato that the project “is very crucial for our people”.

"Our signing today is a crucial step towards implementing the project which will not only create jobs, but also promote cooperation within the region, and stimulate economic development in areas the pipeline crosses,” President Magufuli said.

For his part, President Museveni said: "We want our people to work fast and start this project."

The construction is expected to start before the end of the year and it will help Uganda exploit oil discovered near Lake Albert in 2006.

Reserves in the area are conservatively estimated at some 1.7 billion barrels.
Cheaper
Oil firm Total, alongside China's CNOOC, will do the construction, supported by the governments of Uganda and Tanzania.

Uganda said it dropped Kenya after it realised it would be cheaper using Tanzania’s Tanga port.

President Museveni’s government also said the Kenyan route would delay the project, as it lacked roads and was always affected by monsoon winds for up to three months annually.

A report by Ugandan experts also concluded it was harder to secure land in Kenya, since it takes about 24 months to compensate land owners and get down to work.

On the contrary, since the Tanzanian government owns all the land, access would be easier.

The other deal breaker for Kenya was security. Lamu is seen as closer to Somalia on the Indian Ocean than Tanzania, feeding into fears that the pipeline could be a target for Al-Shabaab.

The fact that the Tanga port was already operational gave it an edge over Lamu, which is still under construction.

Kenya had banked on Uganda to join hands in building the critical infrastructure, which has been blamed for the delays in commercialisation of its oil finds.

Sh121.45 billion pipeline
Abandoned, Kenya will now go it alone, and has maintained it will build its Sh121.45 billion pipeline from Lokichar, where it struck oil in Turkana County, to Lamu, where it is building its port.

Budget estimates show that the State Department for Petroleum plans to spend Sh648.5 million in the financial year starting July 1 on the oil pipeline, commonly known as Project.

The allocation is in addition to the Sh777.5 million allocated in the current financial year to undertake research, feasibility studies, project preparation and design for the project.

Official timelines now show that Kenya’s pipeline will be completed in the second half of 2023 and not June 2022, as earlier planned.

The pipeline project is under a joint partnership between the Kenya government and the oil companies’ consortium of Tullow Oil Kenya B.V, Africa Oil Turkana Ltd and Total Oil (formally Maersk Oil).

Ironically, French Oil giant Total, which is also eyeing to do the Kenyan pipeline, has widely been seen as having had a hand in the decision by Uganda to change its route from its major trading partner.

This comes shortly after Total, the majority shareholder in Uganda's oil fields, reached an agreement on the pipeline with Uganda's government.

Tanzania government spokesman Hassan Abassi said about 80 percent of the pipeline will run through Tanzania and the project is expected to create more than 18,000 jobs for Tanzanians.

pwafula@ke.nationmedia.com

Why Kenya lost Uganda pipeline deal
 
Geza Ulole said:
Hawawezi kukujibu bila commitment ya Uganda kwenye hii reli sioni umuhimu wake namshauri JPM asiingie mkenge kwenye hii project!
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Sio uganda pekee, hata wengine (Rwanda, Congo, n.k) wanaweza kupata option ya kutumia bandari ya Tanga na ukiachilia mbali itasaidia hata kuleta ahueni kwa wanaoishi miji ya hiyo njia ikiwekwa bandari kavu Chuga, bila shaka unajua hiyo njia maisha yalivyo juu kwa kuimport from kenya. SGR injengwe na Chuga waweke Airport ya maana.

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toptorn said:
Sio uganda pekee, hata wengine (Rwanda, Congo, n.k) wanaweza kupata option ya kutumia bandari ya Tanga na ukiachilia mbali itasaidia hata kuleta ahueni kwa wanaoishi miji ya hiyo njia ikiwekwa bandari kavu Chuga, bila shaka unajua hiyo njia maisha yalivyo juu kwa kuimport from kenya. SGR injengwe na Chuga waweke Airport ya maana.

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huu mjadala umeisha plse refer to our arguments!
 
joto la jiwe said:
Sasa mbona unaishi katika dunia ya nadharia?, kuna wataalamu wa kila eneo husika duniani, lazima kufanya mambo kitaalamu, hatuwezi kufanya mambo kwa mihemko na nadharia.

Kinachoonekana hapa unatumia nadharia zaidi kuliko kutumia ushahidi wa kitaalamu, kwanini unataka kuifanya Tanzania/awamu ya tano kuwa ni "special" haiwezi kushindwa au kupata hasara, kwamba haipaswi kusikiliza na kufanya mambo kitaalamu, kwamba hata kama wataalamu wanasema hili jambo haliwezekani kwasababu za kitaalamu, wewe unapinga kwasababu hii awamu ya tano haishindwi?.

Tuliposema kwanini serikali ilishindwa kuendesha reli na kutafuta wawekezaji, ukasema "usilinganishe serikali zilizopita na serikali hii". Tuliposema wawekezaji waliamua kuachana na hiyo reli ya Moshi kutokana na kutokua na biashara ya kutosha, ukasema "kulikua na hujuma", tumetoa mfano wa SGR ya Kenya, unasema usilinganishe Kenya na Tanzania,. Wewe toa mifano ya Afrika kuonyesha ni nchi gani iliyojenga reli mbili zinazoelekea sehemu moja na zikafanya kazi kwa ufanisi. Kukurahisishia, taja nchi yoyote ile Africa ambayo reli zake zinafanya kazi kwa ufanisi wa hali ya juu ukiacha South Afrika.

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Ohoo, sasa haya maswala ya mpaka uone wengine wamepatia unayumba. Mimi nimekulia maeneo ambapo asilimia zaidi ya 80 bidhaa zinatoka kenya ilhali zipo TZ kwa sababu ya bei + Products nyingi zinaenda kenya kwa sababu ya umbali wa kufikisha jiji letu la bashara. Tanga - Musoma SGR ijengwe, sina ushahidi wa kitaalam kwakuwa sijafanya ila kwa experience ya maisha yangu nilipokulia hiyo njia nitasmama kidete. Hivi unajua urefu wa safari ya Tanga - Karatu? je, unajua bei ya samaki wa baharini kwenye hiyo njia? mtu unanua suruali ya alf 25 DSM unapeleka chuga unauza alfu 50
 
Chamoto said:
Usifananishe Jubilee na awamu ya tano.

Faida za kiuchumi siyo lazima zipatikane leo, reli ina maisha marefu (zaidi ya miaka 100). Kumbuka zaidi ya 65% ya watanzania ni chini ya miaka 20, hawa wote wakija kuzaa hapata kalika. Population kubwa kwenye nchi yenye miundombinu ya reli ni mlinganyo unaotengeneza uchumi mkubwa. Angalia maendeleo ya haraka ya Marekani (19th c) na majuzi hapa China (2003 -2013), utaona yanaenda sambamba na km za reli walizojenga.

Miundombinu ni kila kitu kaka, Jeff Bezos asingekuwa na 200Billions leo na kuajiri maelfu ya watu, pamoja na kuwezesha biashara nyingi, kama isingekuwa miundombinu madhubuti ya posta ya Marekani (USPS, moja ya kitengo cha kwanza kabisa kuanzishwa). Hivyo faida za ujenzi wa reli unaweza usiione moja kwa moja ila ki ujumla ni maradufu ya gharama za ujenzi.
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Tatizo la nchi nyingi za kiafrika ni kufanya mambo kwa zimamoto au hata kutohangaika kupanga mambo ya maendeleo at least for 50 years to come kwa kisingizio cha serikali haina hela. Ulaya, china, USA na nchi nyingine developed wanaweka sana mbele tafiti za maendeleo ambazo zinawafanya waplan ahead of time. Ni kweli hatuna hela ya kujenga SGR nyingi kwa sasa lakini kuwa na mipango ya maendeleo ya usafiri wa reli (mizigo na abiria) kwa nchi nzima kwa miaka 100 ijayo ni muhimu sana. Kwa kuwa hatuna mipango ya muda mrefu ndio maana serikali inaingia gharama za ziada kulipa fidia kwa wakazi wa maeneo ambayo mradi husika utafanyika na hivyo kuongeza gharama za mradi unnecessarily. Na hili ni karibia sector zote. Bila kuwekeza kwenye tafiti za miradi ya mendeleo tutakuwa nafanya kazi kwa mihemko na kukurupuka tu.
 
Tz_one said:
Wadau mawazo yenu yote ni mazuri..sana

Kuna pande wanayoona SGR sio economical viable in 10yrs time we have to wait and see na wengne wanona ijengewe hata sasa hivi....

Mimi naheshimu mawazo yote...

Ila mshawaza mnataka reli ifike musoma kwa sababu gani ?..kusafirisha watu cause ya tourism..na in country bussiness au as alternative to Central corridor

Port ya Tanga ni ndogo sana kwa Dar..kama unataka SGR ambayo itacost 4bn usd + huo ni uhakika..lazima pia uandae na 600mil usd ya berth nyngne 2 Tanga...je kuna umuhimu huo sa hizi..wakati hata hakuna barabara za wilaya to wilaya...za lami hazijaisha ..SGR ya central haijaisha ..na tunamikopo ya ku service ya sector mbali mbali ..Dar Port yenyewe haijafikia Mombasa kwa number ya Berths ..kwanii tuspianue Dar port kwa kujenga super berths hata tano mpya..najua kuna plan ya kujenga berth mpya mbil for 600mil usd..ukiachana na hii plan ya expansion...kwa kuweka hivi na maanisha tuna sehemu nyngne ambazo tumeanza tunahitaji tumalizie kwa nguvu na si kufanya nusu nusu

Mimi nnachoona kama ni PPP kama Great jay alivyosema basi ni heri na waanze hata keshoo..ila kama ni GOT basi au hata mkopo commercial sio WB au AFDB isubiri kwanza ...
kuna sehemu nying kuna gaps bado

1.SGR kukamilika Central na kukamlika kwa JNHPP hii itakuwa ndani ya next 5 years -8yrs kwa SGR ..na JNHPP in next 4 yrs mambo ya kienda vizuri

2.Tuanze wenyewe ku mine Chuma chetu hii itasaida hata kupunguza import wa vyuma vya ujenzi wa hyo hyo SGR

3.ATC yenyewe mm navyoona bado haiendeshwi tu standards nzuri maybe cause ya Covid but bado...zile dreamliner inabidi zisiwe zinalala lala yani ni kazi kwa kazi lets see after covid na in next 5 yrs na hapo imecost goverment around 700mil usd ..it need s more stability
4.Bado reli kuunga DRC we need around 4 wagon ferries for DRC and 4 wagon ferries for Uganda for SGR kwenda vizuri ..DRC ni soko kubwa sana kwa SGR ...watu na vitu..na ni taifa kubwa

5.Social services of course so far speed ni nzuri hasa kwa health services na appreciate..ila we need better equipped primary schools na secondary ku imrpove standard za elimu hasa elimu ya kutengeneza vitu na elimu ya kujiajiri.

6 .Serikali pia inabidi ijenge nyumba za gharama nafuu kwa wananchi..kwenye mikoa mbali mbali inafanyika na NHC ila sio gharama nafuu kwa wanachi wa kipato cha chini sana

By saying all that am against GOT kuchukua mkopo au kutumia Tax kujenga Tanga wakati hizo project juu hazijaisha...ila kama ni PPP sawa amabyo goveremnt itapewa reli after X no of years

Sijaona project kubwa mpka sasa ya PPP na govt of Tz ..lets see kama hyo itakuwa ya kwanza
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Hapo nakusoma mkuu na bandari ya Tanga inaendelea kupanuliwa
 
The great jay said:
Joto la jiwe we pia hauko realistic na unachokiongea mkuu
Usiji position kujudge mind set za watu.Tz_one umeongea vizuri kwa mawazo yako ila hili muda utajibu zaidi.
kwa ppp ya gharama kubwa ya soon ni mbamba bay sgr na liganga.Mambo mengine yaendelee nazani..
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Kweli kabisa mkuu, time will tell
 
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