'Who created God' is an Illogical Question!

[Tractus]

Habari zenu wana JF. Leo nataka niwaletee ukweli ambao wapinga mungu kama Kiranga huwa hawauelewi. Swali hilo ni hili.

Swali: Je, kama Mungu yupo, nani alimuumba Mungu? (Au ametokea wapi?)

Jibu: Mungu ana sifa ya kutokuwa na mwanzo wala mwisho, hivyo hilo swali halina mantiki. Pia tufanye kuwa Mungu ameumbwa, kwa hiyo logic ni kuwa aliyemuumba naye anatakiwa awe ameumbwa, na kuendelea. Hivyo ni wazi kuwa kutakuwa na miungu infinity kitu ambacho ni Illogical. Hivyo namaliza kwa kusema kuwa, Swali la Who Created God is an illogical question.

I always say God is a necessary being, atheists logic falls short for having good arguments to support their position. To them, refutation is a proof of non existence which logically is a total mistake.

 

[gasgas]

Ok, perhaps death is a good thing to the Theists,...But:

Why Jesus cried when Lazaro died?

Why people all over the world cry once their beloveds are gone?

Why are sick people goes to church to ask God to heal them and not to kill them?

Do you know what a cry symbolize?

Who told you death is worst thing to atheist?

You probably ought to know about Jesus.
Jesus is a manifestation of the godhead here on earth.
Being a spirit (God is a spiritual being) he took upon himself a physical body and came to earth and lived amongst us just as any human being would. He took upon himself the form of human being which can experience pain, joy, laughter, hunger, etc

Why did he do this? So that we may learn that it is possible for us humans to live according to how God desires as long as our Spiritual being is in the right state. Being in the human form he experienced these feelings like a human being would to show us that he took upon himself a full human form and he understands what it's like

Though we do understand (not all do) that there's more after death, we find it hard to accept it because we know we will not see them here on earth for a while. God gave us the ability to feel these emotions to be able to love others and be le to relate to them while we are on earth, we miss them when they are gone because that is how we have been created. Imagine a world where people cant experience any feeling at all.. Doesnt change the outcome of death. But we feel and it is hard to accept it that it's for the better but it is.
But people don't keep on crying forever, do they? There comes a time when they accept the truth and move on. That's how we've been created



May be you tell me what's the worst thing to you as an athiest?
Because the way i see it, if you die and you don't know what happens after that, it shouldn't be that easy to find peace? Uncertainty is very hard to live with, will you be gone for good? will you come back as worm? will you evolve into a monkey?

Why we ask God to heal us?
Well God made man for a purpose and created a drive inside his heart. That's why man wakes up in the morning pumped up wanting to do something.
Nobody wants to leave earth having not fulfilled the purpose you were created to fulfill while on earth.

Educate me mister. What does a cry symbolize?

 

[gasgas]

I

It is also illogical just as someone who says that there must a first cause who is uncaused.

If there is no cause how can we have an effect?

 

[gasgas]

[QUOTays am a Winner, post: 18014607, member: 110136"]People are so wonderful. They don't believe in God but yet they BELIEVE in evolution.

Can you tell me any evidence for evolution? The answer is NO. So, evolution is a belief and not a science just as the way we believe in God.

If you want to know the secrets of God its better you approach him in prayers. We can not know everything. Our brains are finite and have limits.

In Yeremia 33: 3, God says "Niite, nami nitakuitikia, nami nitakuonesha mambo makubwa (kama ya uumbaji na future), magumu (kama uumbaji na spiritual truths, usiyoyajua (In fact we don't know many).

You seem to lack a knowledge about evolution, you can't compare evolution with religion because evolution is a scientific fact which can be proved. I wonder whether you could prove most of your religious beliefs[/QUOTE]
You're wrong
Evolution is not a Fact
It's a THEORY

please kasome tena uweze kutafuta tofauti ya fact na theory

 

[Kiranga]

Kama nyota zingeandika Mungu yupo ndiyo ingekuwa dalili ya kufanya watu waamini mungu au ndiyo ingekuwa uhakika kuwa mungu yupo?

Kama ingekuwa ni dalili tu ya kuwafanya watu ndiyo waamini kuwa mungu yupo basi watu wangeendelea kubishana kama sasa,wapo ambao wangetaka kuamini na ambao wasingetaka kama ilivyo sasa ambapo pia wapo wenye kuona dalili ambazo ni sababu kwao za kuamini kuwa mungu yupo lakini wengine hawaoni hizo dalili kuwa ni sababu za kuwafanya waamini mungu.


Lakini bado sijaridhika kwa nini bado hadi Leo watu wanaendelea kubishana kitu ambacho hakipo ikiwa kweli hakipo? Kwanini ni hiki tu ndiyo ubishi wake ni mkubwa? Mbona vitu vyengine havina ubishi mkubwa wa muda mrefu kama huu?

Kuna ubishi wa muda mrefu kwa nini relativity haiwezi kuwa reconciled na quantum physics.

Umeusikia au kuujua?

Just because hujui kuna ubishi fulani hilo halimaanishi hakuna ubishi.

Mungu wenu wa kwenye vitabu anavyooenda sifa angekuwepo angeandika angani kwa nyota kwamba yupo kila mtu asome kwa ligha yake.

The fact kwamba hamna alama ya wazi hivyo inaonesha Mungu huyu hayupo.

Kwa nini afanye kumjua kuwe na ubishi mkubwa sana wakati angeweza kufanya liwe jambo la wazi kabisa?

 

[Tractus]

I am very open to change.

I would actually prefer for a God to exist.

That would lift a lot of responsibility from my shoulders.

Sadly, the evidence points otherwise.

Your Bible is full of unresolved contradictions.

That shows it is not the word of God.

Because God does not exist.

I would like to know your position, do you hold that God does not exist?is that your position?
I wanna have a constructive exchange on this timeless question which haunted human minds since the time of antiquity.

 

[gasgas]

Kiranga
Umesoma maelezo niliyokutumia kuhusu your first "contradiction"
You said you are open minded and willing to be convinced if truth is presented unto you
Please keep your word and atleast read what I post or else i may have to doubt your openminded-ness as being insincere

I think that's better than repeating the same statements you have been making like a broken record for a while now

I want to reason with you my brother, we can make something work
Please cooperate

 

[sammoo]

Yes, because you exist! God is the Creator so long we see you it proves that the one created you exists

I was born not created.

 

[UHURU JR]

Ni kweli kwamba kuna mengine hayana ushahidi ma yapo.

Lakini nasema Mungu hayupo si kwa sababu tu hana ushahidi (ingawa hana ushahidi kwa sababu hayupo) bali pia kuna ushahidi wa kimantiki kwamba hayupo.

Ushahidi hiu wa kimantiki unakuja baada ya kuangalia mikinganyo inayojitokeza katika dhana za kuwepo kwake.

Tukisema kwamba, Mungu ni mkuu sana kuliko uwezo wa kufikiri wa kiutu basi tunatakiwa tukubali kwamba Mungu huyu anatakiwa awe ni wa viwango vya juu sana kuliko vya kiutu.

Haiyumkiniki kimantiki watu tukasema mzazi kupendelea mtoto mmoja ni tabia mbaya isiyofaa kuigwa wala kusifuwa, halafu hapo hapo tuambiwe eti Mungu alichagua Wayahudi wawe taifa lake. Au aliumba watu wawe na akiki halafu akaumba viumbe vi gine havina akili ili vitumikie watu.

Haiyumkiniki kimantiki eti software enguneer mwenye uwezo wa kutengeneza software system isiyo na matatizo akitengeneza iliyo na matatizo kwa makusudi tuseme hafai tumfukuze kazi wakati Mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote tunaambiwa eti alikuwa anaweza kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezekani lakini hakuumba ulimwengu huo akaumba huu ambao vimbunga vinaua na kuumiza maelfu ya masikini huko Haiti.

Ukimuweka kwenye mizani ya haki za kibunadamu tu huyu Mungu unaona anatakiwa kupelekwa kwenye mahakama ya ICC ahukumiwe. Hajafikisha hata viwango vya haki ya juu ya kiutu, tutasemaje ni Mungu yupo mwenye ujuzi wote, upendo wote na uwezo wote?

Ukiangalia sana unaona kuna contradiction inayoonesha ukweli kwamba si tu Mungu huyu ametungwa na watu, bali ametungwa na watu wa kale ambao walikuwa hawana elimu kubwa ya kuangalia mantiki ya Mungu huyu.

Hayo uliyoyaandika hapo hayahusiani na kutokuwepo kwa mungu na ndiyo maana bado ubishi huu hutoisha.

Hayo uliyoyaeleza ni mtazamo wako na mwengine pia anaweza akawa na mtazamo wake kama wewe,na ndiyo maana wengine mtazamo wao ni kwamba mungu hayupo kwa sababu haonekani.

Na ndiyo maana bado tunaendelea kubishana tu kwa sababu hatujadili katika kutafuta ukweli kuwa mungu yupo au hayupo bali muda mwingi tunajadili mambo ambayo watu wangetaka yawe au yasiwe ili ndiyo wakubali kuwa mungu yupo.

 

[simplemind]

You see to an atheist death is the worst thing that could happen.
Why? Because you really don't know or believe anything that comes after that.

To us believers death is not the worst thing that could happen because death opens way to eternal life, a life that lasts a loot longer than these odd 70 years on Earth
There's a promise of heaven in scriptures, there's a promise of a sinless world where we can trully relate to God much closer without there being sin

Victory over death believe does require a giant leap of faith either one is plain naive or outright irresponsible.

 

[gasgas]

I was born not created.

If i may ask
According to you, what is the origin of man?
Man alitokea wapi?

siyo evolution, coz ili evolution itokee lazima kulikuwa na kitu kingine kabla ndiyo kikaevolve

what is the source according to you?

 

[gasgas]

Victory over death believe require a giant leap of faith either one is plain naive or outright irresponsible.

i am sorry brothee sijakuelewa vizuri.
Please kindly elaborate

 

[sammoo]

If i may ask
According to you, what is the origin of man?
Man alitokea wapi?

siyo evolution, coz ili evolution itokee lazima kulikuwa na kitu kingine kabla ndiyo kikaevolve

what is the source according to you?

go read the theories of evolution u'll get the answers,,

 

[descarte]

If there is no cause how can we have an effect?

Does that seem incomprehensible to you? Lets talk about the idea of causality itself. Does it stand for anything, can you see causality in the first place. I think you cannot claim that there is no effect without cause as if causality stands for something outside human's mind.

 

[descarte]

You seem to lack a knowledge about evolution, you can't compare evolution with religion because evolution is a scientific fact which can be proved. I wonder whether you could prove most of your religious beliefs

You're wrong
Evolution is not a Fact
It's a THEORY

please kasome tena uweze kutafuta tofauti ya fact na theory[/QUOTE]
No I think evolution is fact and you claim it to be a theory.
Let us start from that stance, Which reasons do you have to contend that evolution is a theory?

 

[gasgas]

go read the theories of evolution u'll get the answers,,

Brother I am not asking kuhusu theories zilizopo

Nakuuliza wewe kama Sammoo theory gani ambayo umeiaccept.
Hiyo theory inakwambia Origin ya man ni wapi?

Evolution na Origin ni tofauti.

Mfano: kuna theory inasema life originated from dirt, kulikuwa na uchafu uchafu umejikusanya mahali mara ghafla wakatokea funza hiyo ni origin

Evolution inakuja kusema o funza wakabadilika wakawa sijui chura then akawa nyani then bindamu


Wewe theory gani ya ORIGIN unaikubali?

 

[UHURU JR]

Kuna ubishi wa muda mrefu kwa nini relativity haiwezi kuwa reconciled na quantum physics.

Umeusikia au kuujua?

Just because hujui kuna ubishi fulani hilo halimaanishi hakuna ubishi.

Mungu wenu wa kwenye vitabu anavyooenda sifa angekuwepo angeandika angani kwa nyota kwamba yupo kila mtu asome kwa ligha yake.

The fact kwamba hamna alama ya wazi hivyo inaonesha Mungu huyu hayupo.

Kwa nini afanye kumjua kuwe na ubishi mkubwa sana wakati angeweza kufanya liwe jambo la wazi kabisa?

Nimekuuliza kama ingeandikwa mungu yupo katika nyota hiyo ndiyo ingekuwa ni dalili tu ya kufanya watu waamini mungu?

 

[gasgas]

You're wrong
Evolution is not a Fact
It's a THEORY

please kasome tena uweze kutafuta tofauti ya fact na theory

No I think evolution is fact and you claim it to be a theory.
Let us start from that stance, Which reasons do you have to contend that evolution is a theory?[/QUOTE]
i

You're wrong
Evolution is not a Fact
It's a THEORY

please kasome tena uweze kutafuta tofauti ya fact na theory

No I think evolution is fact and you claim it to be a theory.
Let us start from that stance, Which reasons do you have to contend that evolution is a theory?[/QUOTE



Tuanze na definitions
Quoted from somewhere
"In the scientific world, facts (or scientific facts) are what one can readily observe. It can pertain to any objective and real phenomenon may it be the falling of the ball after being thrown upwards or other simple observable occurrences. In this regard, the fact is that the ball will fall. More so, if this test is being done repeatedly under a controlled environment that cancels all unnecessary variables the phenomenon would have become a very obvious and undeniable fact. It is considered a fact because it will remain as true even after several centuries unless there is a more rigid and precise way of measuring a certain phenomenon.

On the contrary, theories in science are likened to the explanations to what has been observed. It is relatively greater in weight to what a hypothesis is."

Is Evolution readily observable? No. Hamna mtu ambaye aliweza kuobserve a chimpanzee change into a human being.
Haijawahi kuwa tested and proven kwamba ukimweka nyani hapo baada ya miaka kadhaa vizazi vijavyo watakuwa binadamu. Haiwezi kuwa proven by observation.
Evolution is a theory trying to explain the similarities between man and other organisms structurally and functionally. And just like any theory it has strengths and weakness. And i hate to burst your bubble. It's not a FACT


Unaweza kuobserve kwamba mpira ukirushwa juu unarudi chini, hiyo ni Fact, miaka nenda rudi hata mkirudia mara mia mpira always utarudi chini

Why unarudi chini, ndiyo tunakuwa na gravitational theory. Maelezo ambayo yanaweza yakaelezea fact hiyo

 

[gasgas]

Does that seem incomprehensible to you? Lets talk about the idea of causality itself. Does it stand for anything, can you see causality in the first place. I think you cannot claim that there is no effect without cause as if causality stands for something outside human's mind.

Ntakujibu based on laws of science

Twende kwenye second law of thermodynamics, shall we?
"he second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of an isolated system always increases over time, or remains constant in ideal cases where the system is in a steady state or undergoing a reversible process. The increase in entropy accounts for the irreversibility of natural processes, and theasymmetry between future and past.

(Wikipedia)


What this means is that katika any system entropy always tends to increase or stay the same. Things move towards disorderliness and not order.

This law itself inakataa many of the theories kwamba sijui there was nothing, then something happened sijui bigbang sijui nini because if that were the case there wouldnt be order in the universe,
From nothing, au hiyo big bang disorderliness ingekuwa inaongezeka from then na tusingeweza kupata the universe ambayo ipo so orderly,

We are able to predict seasons, we are able to predict vitu kama kupatwa kwa jua, vitu kama meteors,
Scientists can go to the moon, they can view other planets because the world is in order


What has caused this order and arrangement?

According to science this order is impossible, because things move towards either the same or a higher degree of disorderliness. That's a law of science which is stronger than a theory


So there explains why there is causality

If we are to believe in science we were not suppoed to be here. We were supposed to be random molecules floating around in the air

We wouldnt have become so perfectly organized into a earth, human beings, animals, plants, stars

There must be a source ya all this order

 

[gasgas]

Kiranga descarte and others

Leo nipo thread

Karibuni tureason together