'Who created God' is an Illogical Question!

[gasgas]

Did you even understand what I wrote?

Did you even understand what I wrote?

Yeah I did
And i gave you an alternative explanation
Read, then Reply

 

[Kiranga]

I have a different take.

Ni ubishi usio na mwisho kwa sababu unahusu jambo ambalo halina ushahidi madhubuti unaohitimisha.

Mambo yaliyo na utata mara nyingi ndo huwa yana ubishi usio na mwisho.

Kwa hiyo, kama hili suala la mungu lingekuwa na ushahidi unaohitimisha kwa namna yoyote ile basi pasingekuwa na ubishi juu yake.

Halina ushahidi kwa sababu Mungu hayupo.

Mungu ambaye ana uwezo wote, ana ujuzi wote ana uoendo wote na yupo pote kwa nini awe mgumu kujulikana kwa hakika kiasi hiki?

Ni mgumu kujulikana kwa uhakika kwa sababu hayupo.

Ni hadithi tu.

 

[Kiranga]

Yeah I did
And i gave you an alternative explanation
Read, then Reply

First thing first, are you operating from a logical framework or not?

Because if you do not, then the whole thing about understanding each other and replying to each other does not work. Because that is operating from a logical framework.

So are you operating from a logical framework or not?

 

[gasgas]

I have a different take.

Ni ubishi usio na mwisho kwa sababu unahusu jambo ambalo halina ushahidi madhubuti unaohitimisha.

Mambo yaliyo na utata mara nyingi ndo huwa yana ubishi usio na mwisho.

Kwa hiyo, kama hili suala la mungu lingekuwa na ushahidi unaohitimisha kwa namna yoyote ile basi pasingekuwa na ubishi juu yake.

Halina ushahidi kwa sababu Mungu hayupo.

Mungu ambaye ana uwezo wote, ana ujuzi wote ana uoendo wote na yupo pote kwa nini awe mgumu kujulikana kwa hakika kiasi hiki?

Ni mgumu kujulikana kwa uhakika kwa sababu hayupo.

Ni hadithi tu.

Don't you think kama ana uwezo ujuzi mkubwa so many times ovee and above uwezo wa binadamu

Binadamu atapata an easy time or even a tougher time/impossible kuewa

Let's say you're a 8 year old boy
Which of these two would be easier for you to comprehend?
A. A primary school story book
B. A pHD level mathematical theorem

It's as clear as day

 

[gasgas]

First thing first, are you operating from a logical framework or not?

Because if you do not, then the whole thing about understanding each other and replying to each other does not work. Because that is operating from a logical framework.

So are you operating from a logical framework or not?

I operate from both a faith-based framework and logical framework.
To me they can perfectly co-exist

 

[Kiranga]

Don't you think kama ana uwezo ujuzi mkubwa so many times ovee and above uwezo wa binadamu

Binadamu atapata an easy time or even a tougher time/impossible kuewa

Let's say you're a 8 year old boy
Which of these two would be easier for you to comprehend?
A. A primary school story book
B. A pHD level mathematical theorem

It's as clear as day

Angekuwa na uwezo mkubwa hivyo na upendo mkubwa hivyo asingeumba ulimwengu unaoruhusu viumbe ambao hawana 100% efficient systems kwa standards za wanadamu.

 

[Kiranga]

I operate from both a faith-based framework and logical framework.
To me they can perfectly co-exist

What does a contradiction mean to you?

If someone tells you God exists and at the same time God does not exist, what will you make of that?

 

[gasgas]

Angekuwa na uwezo mkubwa hivyo na upendo mkubwa hivyo asingeumba ulimwengu unaoruhusu viumbe ambao hawana 100% efficient systems kwa standards za wanadamu.

That's just your assumption I am afraid

God ana uweza kuzidi wote, but he's also Sovereign and has a purpose for everything
What if he made them 100% and then because of that ulimwengu uishie kujiona self sufficient na feel no need for him

We are made this way so that we recognize the need of having God

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Halina ushahidi kwa sababu Mungu hayupo.

Mungu ambaye ana uwezo wote, ana ujuzi wote ana uoendo wote na yupo pote kwa nini awe mgumu kujulikana kwa hakika kiasi hiki?

Ni mgumu kujulikana kwa uhakika kwa sababu hayupo.

Ni hadithi tu.

Kwani kila ambalo halina ushahidi na lenyewe halipo?

 

[Kiranga]

That's just your assumption I am afraid

God ana uweza kuzidi wote, but he's also Sovereign and has a purpose for everything
What if he made them 100% and then because of that ulimwengu uishie kujiona self sufficient na feel no need for him

We are made this way so that we recognize the need of having God

God is supposed to be above needs.

The God you just described sounds like he needs to be needed.

That is a very human trait.

Why would an omnipotent omniscient and omni benevolent godhead need to be needed?

 

[gasgas]

B

What does a contradiction mean to you?

If someone tells you God exists and at the same time God does not exist, what will you make of that?

Because they are simple things, because they are within our level of understanding

Ni kama kumpa mtoto wa darasa la 5 a math sum it's a piece of cake kwake,
ataelewa na kuifanya kwa sababu ipo ndani ya uwezo wake

Lakini akijaribu kuprove let's say principle of relativity hataweza kwa sababu ipo nje ya uelewa wake

 

[Maji67]

Jamani hizi mada zenu za kumdhihaki Mungu mi zinaniudhi sana, hebu mwacheni Mungu wetu kwa nini mnamsakama kila wakati..
hebu zitajeni neema zake alizowabariki, acheni kumdhihaki Mungu, Mungu ni MKUU, ASIFIWAYE NA ANATUKUZWA KILA SIKU

Kweli kabisa. Halafu zikishatajwa neema zake, zitajeni maovu yake mana kama angemteketeza shetani in the first place basi amani ingekuwamo toka mwanzo wa adam mpaka sasa .

 

[gasgas]

God os supposed to be above needs.

The God you just described sounds like he needs to be needed.

That is a very human trait.

He doesn't need to be needed
He wants to be needed
It's his desire
He desires for man to acknowledge him,
he desires for man to realize that he is not perfect in himself
He desires for man to see God the way God is, as all powerful, all mighty

That doesn't mean God would be any less if man doesn't acknowledge him
As a matter of fact based on Bible history, God once destroyed the world with a flood because they didn't acknowledge, respect God
That to me doesn't sound like he's needy,
It sounds like God made humans a certain way and he desires them to relate to him in a certain way

 

[gasgas]

Kweli kabisa. Halafu zikishatajwa neema zake, zitajeni maovu yake mana kama angemteketeza shetani in the first place basi amani ingekuwamo toka mwanzo wa adam mpaka sasa .

Kwa mimi nilivyoelewa
Mungu ana tabia yake fulani, ni Mungu wa haki na upendo, na hivyo ndivyo anataka sisi tumuelewe
Let's say angemdestroy Shetani mara moja, ingekuwa labda haki lakini malaika wengine wangeelewa vipi juu ya upendo wa Mungu, au kutoa hukumu bila kumpa shetani nafasi ya kutubu

Shetani alipewa nafasi hiyo aweze kutubu toka kipindi hicho na nafasi hiyo iliisha pale Yesu alipokufa msalababi na kuibeba laana ambayo ilitua juu ya wandamu

Hivyo basi itakapofika siku ya mwisho shetani atapata ile adhabu aliyostahili
Malaika watakuwa wameona uovu wote aliofanya shetani
Na wataona upendo ambao Mungu alionyesha kwamba ijapokuwa Shetai alikosea, lakini alipewa nafasi nyingine na Mungu ataonekana kuwa ni Mungu wa haki
Na tabia ya Mungu itadhihirika miongoni mwa viumbe wake

 

[Kiranga]

Kwani kila ambalo halina ushahidi na lenyewe halipo?

Ni kweli kwamba kuna mengine hayana ushahidi ma yapo.

Lakini nasema Mungu hayupo si kwa sababu tu hana ushahidi (ingawa hana ushahidi kwa sababu hayupo) bali pia kuna ushahidi wa kimantiki kwamba hayupo.

Ushahidi hiu wa kimantiki unakuja baada ya kuangalia mikinganyo inayojitokeza katika dhana za kuwepo kwake.

Tukisema kwamba, Mungu ni mkuu sana kuliko uwezo wa kufikiri wa kiutu basi tunatakiwa tukubali kwamba Mungu huyu anatakiwa awe ni wa viwango vya juu sana kuliko vya kiutu.

Haiyumkiniki kimantiki watu tukasema mzazi kupendelea mtoto mmoja ni tabia mbaya isiyofaa kuigwa wala kusifuwa, halafu hapo hapo tuambiwe eti Mungu alichagua Wayahudi wawe taifa lake. Au aliumba watu wawe na akiki halafu akaumba viumbe vi gine havina akili ili vitumikie watu.

Haiyumkiniki kimantiki eti software enguneer mwenye uwezo wa kutengeneza software system isiyo na matatizo akitengeneza iliyo na matatizo kwa makusudi tuseme hafai tumfukuze kazi wakati Mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote tunaambiwa eti alikuwa anaweza kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezekani lakini hakuumba ulimwengu huo akaumba huu ambao vimbunga vinaua na kuumiza maelfu ya masikini huko Haiti.

Ukimuweka kwenye mizani ya haki za kibunadamu tu huyu Mungu unaona anatakiwa kupelekwa kwenye mahakama ya ICC ahukumiwe. Hajafikisha hata viwango vya haki ya juu ya kiutu, tutasemaje ni Mungu yupo mwenye ujuzi wote, upendo wote na uwezo wote?

Ukiangalia sana unaona kuna contradiction inayoonesha ukweli kwamba si tu Mungu huyu ametungwa na watu, bali ametungwa na watu wa kale ambao walikuwa hawana elimu kubwa ya kuangalia mantiki ya Mungu huyu.

 

[Kiranga]

B

Because they are simple things, because they are within our level of understanding

Ni kama kumpa mtoto wa darasa la 5 a math sum it's a piece of cake kwake,
ataelewa na kuifanya kwa sababu ipo ndani ya uwezo wake

Lakini akijaribu kuprove let's say principle of relativity hataweza kwa sababu ipo nje ya uelewa wake

I am not sure what you were trying to convey, but you have not answered my question.

The question being, what does a contradiction mean to you?

If someone tells you, gid exists and does not exist at the same time, what would you make if that?

 

[gasgas]

Halina ushahidi kwa sababu Mungu hayupo.

Mungu ambaye ana uwezo wote, ana ujuzi wote ana uoendo wote na yupo pote kwa nini awe mgumu kujulikana kwa hakika kiasi hiki?

Ni mgumu kujulikana kwa uhakika kwa sababu hayupo.

Ni hadithi tu.

Friend
Vitu vingi ni vigumu kujulikana

Especially hiyo Science ambayo most probably ni your standing point

Nitoe mfano

Kweynye mwili wa binadamu tunafahamu kuna mfumo wa fahamu, kuna Neurons ambazo zinabeba taarifa kutoka sehemu mbali mbali za mwili

Tunafahamu kuwa binadamu kuwa ana ubongo ambao hupokea taarifa kwa kupitia hizi neurons ambazo zinabeba taarifa in form of electric signals

lakini muulize neurosurgeon yeyote
How does an electric signal transform to kumbukumbu fulani kwenye brain hana jibu.

Jinsi gani electric signals zinageuka kuwa kumbukumbu ambayo ni vivid kabisa, Mechanism ipoje
Hawezi kukwambia
Je wanweza kugeuza signal za umeme zozote tu na kuzi-induce kwa binadamu ikawa kumbukumbu fulani?

Lakini just because hatuelewi doesnt mean mechanism haipo.

just because we cant prove, doesnt mean haipo

It means we are limited

 

[Kiranga]

Kweli kabisa. Halafu zikishatajwa neema zake, zitajeni maovu yake mana kama angemteketeza shetani in the first place basi amani ingekuwamo toka mwanzo wa adam mpaka sasa .

Mungu hayupo. Huyu Mungu mjuzi wa yote mwenye upendo wote na nguvu zote hayupo.

Angekuwepo dunia isingekuwa na maovu. Angeumba dunia ambayo maovu hayawezekani kuwepo.

 

[gasgas]

I am not sure what you were trying to convey, but you have not answered my question.

The question being, what does a contradiction mean to you?

If someone tells you, gid exists and does not exist at the same time, what would you make if that?

i would say he's a mad person
or may be he's undecided

I get it that you imply that
if you follow LOGIC, then God doesn't exist, si ndiyo?
I hereby say, you're wrong
Na let me correct this by saying
If wr follow YOUR LOGIC, then God doesn't exist

Because there are plenty Logic scholars who acknowledge that God exists

 

[Kiranga]

He doesn't need to be needed
He wants to be needed
It's his desire
He desires for man to acknowledge him,
he desires for man to realize that he is not perfect in himself
He desires for man to see God the way God is, as all powerful, all mighty

That doesn't mean God would be any less if man doesn't acknowledge him
As a matter of fact based on Bible history, God once destroyed the world with a flood because they didn't acknowledge, respect God
That to me doesn't sound like he's needy,
It sounds like God made humans a certain way and he desires them to relate to him in a certain way

Desiring is a shortcoming.
One that has everything is above desire.
The God you describe as having desire is just an idea.

An omnipotent, omniscient and omni benevolent God would be above desire.

Because desiring in itself shows God does not have everything. He is desiring something.

Your God idea is showing so many contradictions.

The flood story is laughable. Does that mean God made a mistake and was not pleased with his creation?

How does a God who knows everything make such a mistake?