'Who created God' is an Illogical Question!

[Kiranga]

Naelewa vizuri nilicho post.

We unadai kuwa huu ulimwengu una makosa na mungu anasema yeye ni mkamilifu,hivyo unasema mungu mkamilifu hayupo kwa sababu asingeumba dunia yenye makosa.

Ndiyo nimekuuliza kwani tajiri asipotoa msaada kwa masikini ndiyo kunafanya kuwa yeye sio tajiri?

Au bado hujanipata vizuri?

Tajiri ana uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote?

 

[Kiranga]

Wasioamini uwepo wa Mungu,huwa pia hawajiamini,kama wanachoamini ni kweli au sio kweli.

Umeikana Quran leo.

Wewe pia humuamini Mungu maana umeikana dini yako Uislami na kitabu chake cha Quran.

 

[Kiranga]

Una ushahidi gani Mungu ndiye aliyetuumba?

Unaushahidi gani kuwa Mungu yupo?

Hawawezi kukujibu jibu la kueleweka kwenye hili.

 

[Kiranga]

Hivi Mungu mnaemzungumzia ndio yule wa. Aliyeumba nchi na mbingu siku ya kwanza then akampuzika kuamkua siku ya pili akaona alichokifanya day 1 ni kinapendeza...au wa upande upi??? Manake siwezi kusema binadamu wa miguu miwili au baadae nakuja kusema binadamu wa miguu mi4... alafu bado anabaki kuwa binadamu.... what is this???

Mungu mara kaumba dunia ba vitu vyake kaona vimependeza.

Mara Mungu kachukizwa kaleta gharika.

Mungu hajui anakwenda au anarudi. Mungu anayejua yote ataghairi vipi mipango yake?

 

[Kiranga]

Umetetea hoja yako vizuri mno... Ila sasa hapo kwenye dunia yenye majanga kuna utata..

Bado watakuja na swali lao la kila siku... Kwanini majanga yawepo wakati ingewezekana kabisa yasiwepo ilihali yanaharibu Maisha ya viumbe wapendwa wa Mungu...

Hawawezi kujibubswali hili.

Kwa sababu jibu la kweli linaonesha hiyo Mungu wao hayupo.

Watu karibu elfu moja wamekufa Haiti huko kwenye Hurricane Matthew.

Muda si mrefu uliopita tetemeko limepiga Kagera na kuua watu.

Kwa nini huyu Mungu mkatili hivi tunaambiwa ana uoendo wote?

Alivyoumba ulimwengu kwa nini hakuzuia majanha kama haya?

 

[Kiranga]

Kwani kila unachoamini kuwa ni kweli huwa umekithibitisha kwa ushahidi?
Sihitaji kuthibitisha uwepo wa Mungu kwa kuwa Mungu yupo!

Huwezi kuthibitisha uwepo wa Mungu kwa sababu Mungu hayupo.

 

[Kiranga]

Ngoja Kiranga aje atoe majibu hapa.... Tokea nimeanza kuangalia post zake sijawahi kuona akipigwa KO...

Kwa nini mtu aseme hakuna morality nje ya Biblia?

Biblia inabariki utumwa.

Kuna sheria za kiutu tu zinakataza utumwa.

Kati ya Biblia na hizi sheria za kiutu tu, wapi kuna morality?

 

[tejateja]

Mungu hawezi kufanya chochote nje ya stories.

Kwa sababu hayupo.

Kiranga una uwezo wa kufanya chochote kile kama ukiamua na kuituma akili yako lazima jambo ulitakalo ulifanikishe.
Mungu ni roho ndani yako.

 

[tejateja]

Kama nina mapepo huo ni ushahidi zaidi kwamba Mungu hayupo.

Mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote hatakiwi kuumba ulimwengu ambao unaruhusu mapepo kuwaingia viumbe wake wengine.

That is a contradiction.

Kiranga huishi kunishangaza, unatambua uwepo wa mapepo na attributes zao zote. Lakini unashindwa kutambua uwepo wa Mungu alioko ndani yako. Poor you.

 

[tejateja]

Kiranga
It is like this, two verses may seemingly disagree but if you add a third, fourth verse you actually find out that they are talking about the same thing or one is adding more information upon another,
one explains another better such that what you understand it for what it means and not what it seems


These details down here explain the first "contradiction"


Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.” (2 Samuel 24:1)Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel. (1 Chronicles 21:1)

We are sure that God is not the author of sin and He tempts no man to sin (James 1:13). A census in and of itself was not a sin, but Exodus 30:12–16 gives very specific requirements for how a census was to be conducted, and this census by David did not follow the God-given instructions. Then we are told in 1 Chronicles 21:1 that Satan provoked David to number Israel. How do we reconcile this? Did God incite (move or stir up) David to take a census of Israel, or did Satan?

God’s Anger at Israel’s Sin
It is not surprising that the anger of the Lord was directed against Israel at this time: there certainly was cause enough for it. They were ungrateful for the blessings of David’s government, and strangely drawn in to take part in rebellion against David with Absalom first (2 Samuel 15:1–12) and afterwards with Sheba the son of Bichri (2 Samuel 20:1–2). The armies of Israel and Judah had constant strife between their commanders, and Joab proved to be a cold-blooded murderer on several occasions (2 Samuel 3:27, 18:14, 20:10). We have reason to think that their peace from outside enemies and the prosperity of the land under David’s rule had made them secure and sensual, and that God was therefore displeased with them.

Satan Actively Tempts, God Permits Temptation
Satan, as an enemy, suggested this census as an occasion to incite a sin, just as he also put it into the heart of Judas to betray Christ. Satan is frequently described in Scripture as doing what God merely permits to be done; and so, in this case, He permitted Satan to tempt David. Satan was the active mover, while God only withdrew His supporting grace, and the great adversary prevailed against the king. (For other examples of God permitting temptation and it being ascribed to Him, see 2 Samuel 16:7–13; 1 Kings 22:20–23; Psalm 105:24–25.) God as righteous Judge in this instance permitted it with the design that from this sin of David He would take occasion to punish Israel for other sins, for which He might justly have otherwise punished them.

It should be noted that when God has a plan in mind, He will sometimes allow Satan and his demons to do things they want to do (e.g., lie and cause disaster and death), while actually they are working the will of God (who wanted to punish Israel for their idolatry and wickedness). A couple of biblical examples include 2 Chronicles 18:18–22, where God allows a demon to use the false prophets to convince Ahab to go to battle and ultimately to his death, and Job 1–2, where Satan persecutes Job.

God Had Been Judging Israel’s Sin, and They Had Not Repented
Remember that God brought a famine upon the nation for the sin of Saul’s house (2 Samuel 21:1), which according to Ussher and Nolen Jones had just ended a year earlier.1 Now after this census God leveled a three-day pestilence for the sin of David. Perhaps the three-year famine came so that the leaders of the people would learn to recognize the judgment of God, to suspect that their sins were the cause, and therefore to repent and turn to God. This would have a great influence upon national repentance and reformation. This would in turn cause the people to learn to pray for those in authority, that God would keep them from sin, because, if the leaders engage in open sin, the whole nation languishes (Proverbs 29:2). Indeed, we are commanded to pray for those in authority (1 Timothy 2:1–3), as this is pleasing to God. But we see no such repentance from the leaders or the people who engage in open rebellion, seemingly at the slightest provocation.

Satan’s Plan, but God’s Intervention
The author of 1 Chronicles ascribes this census-taking plan to Satan, who wanted to oppose Israel and cause them as much harm as possible, perhaps even hoping to destroy the Lord’s anointed (David and/or Solomon) which would have terminated the earthly line through which Christ came. God however wanted to punish Israel for their sins (most notably rebellion), and so He allowed Satan to tempt David so He could stamp out those traitors who despised the Lord and His anointed king.

The difficulty in reconciling the statement in 1 Chronicles 21:1, “Satan . . . moved David,” with that of 2 Samuel 24:1, “the Lord moved David,” is not problematic. All temptation is permitted by God, but not caused by God. When evil spirits tempt us, they do so by permission (Job 1:12,2:6; Luke 22:31). Satan therefore provoked David to number the people, and God allowed him to do so. God allows those things which serve to advance His holy and perfect will.

God Is in Control
The author of 2 Samuel (probably the prophets Nathan or Gad) chose to view this whole affair in the ultimate sense of God being in control of all things, while the author of 1 Chronicles (probably Ezra) wanted to showcase the satanic plot and how God used this as a tool for judgment. It is the same account with a different point of emphasis. This also makes sense, for Nathan and Gad were prophets who proclaimed that God is in control of all the affairs of men, and knows and predicts events before they come to pass. Ezra was a priest who was interested in pointing out the holiness of God, and as one who hates sin—treason and idolatry being two of the most heinous, and the two which Israel were most prone to. The “takeaway” point here is that God judges and punishes sin, and purges out the leaven of sin from His people (cf. 1 Corinthians 5:6–8). Satan meant it for evil for David and for Israel, but God ultimately meant it for good in the long run of the nation, and so allowed Satan to provoke David.

God isn't a physical being...
I'm just reminding you.
God is spirit

 

[tejateja]

God is an infinite and eternal
being, without form or place, without issue or
similitude, present to our most secret
thoughts, existing by the necessity of his own
nature, and deriving from himself all moral
and intellectual perfection.

Well said simplemind...
mwambiage kiranga akuelewe.
God is spirit. God isn't a physical being kama akili ya kiranga itakavyo

 

[Kikwajuni One]

Wewe umeikana Quran, halafu bado unasema unaamuamini Allah?

Umemkataa Mungu wako kwa sababu ya mabishanonya JF.

Bora mimi ninayesema siamini Mungu yupo, kuliko wewe unayesema Muislamu halafu ukiulizwa kama unaiamini Quran unaikana kwa sababu ya mabishano ya JF.

Wewe si Muislamu. Wewe ni mnafiki.

Umeshindwa kujibu hoja ya kuthibitisha ubaya uko vipi.Unaruka ruka,wewe huamini kama Mungu yupo,vipi useme ana kitabu,asiyekuwepo anakuwaje na kitabu.
Ndio nikasema,msioamini Mungu hayupo,mnajidanganya,hamuwezi kujenga hoja,mpaka mtumie hoja za Mungu,Mungu mnayesema hayupo.
Uko nusu nusu,mara useme Mungu hayupo,mara unatafuta hoja kutoka kwa huyo Mungu ambaye hayupo.
Sema huna jibu,usione aibu.

 

[ShyaRuwa]

We ndiye unayehama mada, unaniuliza habari za upendo wakati hoja yetu ni ukamilifu.

Ili Mungu awe Mkamilifu lazima awe na upendo, nilipotaka unipe ushahidi wa ukamilifu, wewe ulinipa mfano wa tajiri ambaye wote tulikubaliana kuwa hana upendo.Basi hata Mungu hawezi kuwa mkamilifu kama hana upendo.

 

[ShyaRuwa]

Hawawezi kukujibu jibu la kueleweka kwenye hili.

Naona wanambwela tu, eti Mungu alituumba kwa kutumia udongo.

Je wanyama wengine na mimea iliumbwa kwa kutumia material yepi?

 

[ShyaRuwa]

Naona umeamua ku drop neno kamilifu umeamua kutumia tulivu kukwepa same moral implications. Hahahaaaa!

Ni kitu kile kile, ukamilifu wa dunia iliyoumbwa na Mungu ni pale dunia inapokuwa tulivu bila ya kusumbuliwa na majanga asilia.

 

[Kikwajuni One]

Naona wanambwela tu, eti Mungu alituumba kwa kutumia udongo.

Je wanyama wengine na mimea iliumbwa kwa kutumia material yepi?

Msioamini uwepo wa Mungu,hmna hoja za kujijenga mpaka mtumie maneno ya Mungu,ambaye mwasema hayupo.Vipi ambaye hayupo,utumie hoja zake kujijenga.

 

[Kikwajuni One]

Ni kitu kile kile, ukamilifu wa dunia iliyoumbwa na Mungu ni pale dunia inapokuwa tulivu bila ya kusumbuliwa na majanga asilia.

Ikiwa wayaita majanga,una ushahidi gani kama hayo majanga yamesababishwa na nini mpaka yakawa asilia.

 

[ShyaRuwa]

Ukichanganyikiwa hesabu haina maana hesabu zina mikanganyiko. Ni wewe tu hujui hesabu!
By the way kwa nini mikanganyiko na kukosa logic ni kitu kibaya?


Kwa nini unataka nitumie logic? Kwa nini nisijibu tu vyovyote? Ulishawahi kuona Simba anaomba jibu "logical" toka kwa mwanasimba? Au Kondoo kuomba jibu logical kwa mbuzi? Kwa nini utake jibu logical at all?


Kwani kuwepo au kutokuwepo kwa majanga kuna tofauti gani? Kwa nini udhani kuwa majanga ni kitu kibaya? Unatumia kipimo gani kujua majanga hayakupaswa kuwemo katika dunia kamilifu (ingawa this time umeliacha makusudi neno kamilifu kuepuka maswali usiyo na majibu)?

Kukosa logic na kuwepo kwa mikanganyiko kwenye jambo fulani ni dalili ya kwanza kuwa hilo jambo ni la uongo.

Tumia logic ama chochote uwezacho, ila utoe jibu lenye logic.Simba na Kondoo hawana haja ya kudai logic kwa maana ni irrational animals.

Kwa hiyo majanga siyo kitu kibaya? kwa hiyo tetemeko la Kagera na Hurricane ya Haiti yalikuwa mambo ya kusherehekea?

 

[ShyaRuwa]

Ikiwa wayaita majanga,una ushahidi gani kama hayo majanga yamesababishwa na nini mpaka yakawa asilia.

Kwa hiyo tetemeko la Kagera na Hurricane ya Haiti ni man made?

 

[ShyaRuwa]

Msioamini uwepo wa Mungu,hmna hoja za kujijenga mpaka mtumie maneno ya Mungu,ambaye mwasema hayupo.Vipi ambaye hayupo,utumie hoja zake kujijenga.

Ebu taja sifa za Mungu aliyepo?