Uraia wa waTutsi !

[anjo]

Kutokana na maelezo ya mtoa mada, inaonekana kuwa hawa tatutsi hawakuwa na hii myth ya Tutsi empire kwani wangebaki kwenye hizi nchi si wangeweza kuziongoza baadae? Nakumbuka walivyoondoka kurudi kwao mwaka 1994 watu walilalamika kuwa wamerudi kwao ilhali wamesomeshwa nchini kwetu na walikuwa wamepewa uraia wa tanzania. Mimi nawaona Kama watu wanaopenda asili yao kuliko nchi nyingine.

 

[jMali]

There was no Genocide against Hutu, the world knows about Genocide committed against Tutsi, crimes or other killings done should be differentiated from Genocide:
Diverting the definition of Genocide and the reality of what happened in Rwanda, is punishable by Rwandan laws:
Kusema kuwa Genocide ilikuwa against Tutsi, haizuii serikali kumkumbuka Prime Minister Agatha Uwilingiyimana (mhutu) aliyeuawa kipindi cha Genocide just because she opposed the Genocidal regime, pia haizuii watu kukumbuka familia zao zilizo kufa kwenye mapigano iwe wa Tutsi waliokufa wakiwa vitani,au wanajeshi waserikali ya zamani waliokufa wakiwa vitani, lakini vifo vyao haviitwi Genocide:

Ndio hapo kwenye tatizo sasa. Ingawa hutaki ngoja nikukumbushe kuwa over 80% ya wanyarwanda ni wahutu! Nani unadhani kaamua kuwa waliokufa wote ni watutsi na atakayejadili vinginevyo afungwe? Hii conclusion ya kwamba waliokufa majority ni watutsi inatolewa na nani? wanyarwanda wote (over 80% wahutu), au Kagame na RPF (watutsi) ambao walikuwa sehemu ya mgogoro na hivyo wana conflict of interest? Na ukumbuke kinachodaiwa hapa ni honest calculations sio blah blah.
Hesabu zote zenye common sense zinasema majority ya vifo ni vya wahutu. International community hata Obama juzi juzi inajua Rwandan genocide, hii habari ya genocide against tutsi hata huko Rwanda imekuja juzi tu.

 

[anjo]

Hiyo percentage ya uhutu na utusi ni ya kabla ya Uhuru. Logically, idadi kubwa inategemewa kuongezeka zaidi ukilinganisha na idadi ndogo.
Lakini kuna angalizo! Wazungu walitumia vipimo ambavyo si DNA za sasa. Walitumia vigezo vya ukubwa wa poa, urefu kiumbo na urefu wa mbavu. Scientifically, vigezo hivi havina ukweli kwani familia moja inaweza kuwa na watu wanaotofautiana kimaumbile na hivyo hai-justify kabila la mtu.
Kuna ripoti nyingi zinazotoa taarifa tofauti za kukidhi matakwa ya kusema majority na minority. Sensa ya 1988 kipindi hicho nilikuwa kwenye shirika la kimataifa huko Rwanda ilionyesha kuwa Watusi walikuwa asilimia kama 40 (40%) bila ya kuwahusisha walikuwa nje ya nchi wengi wao wakiwa watusi. Ripoti ilizuiliwa kutoka ingawa tuliweza kuiona kutokana na kuwa wadau wa sensa hiyo.

Point ni kuwa, wingi wa kabila hau-justify kuongoza nchi kwani hata Tanzania ingeongozwa na wasukuma na wanyamwezi ambao ndiyo walio wengi. Matatizo ambayo yapo nchi nyingi ni kuwa na uelewa mdogo na kushindwa kutofautisha ukabila na utendaji kazi.

Anjo

 

[MGOSI132]

Idadi kubwa au ndogo ya waliouawa ndio ufafanuzi wa neno Genocide?,hapa tunaongelea maandalizi na utekelezaji wa mauaji hayo🙁kwa hiyo hata kama wa Hutu waliokufa ndio wengi, hai justify kwamba ni Genocide):
Hata tukikubali your imaginary statistics haiondoi ukweli kuwa mauaji dhidi ya Wa Tutsi yaliandaliwa na kutekelezwa na serikali iliyokuwepo:
Hao majority waliokufa unasema walifia nchini Congo naweza kukuuliza how sure are you kwamba waliuawa na wanajeshi wa Rwanda, Mwaka 1996 zaidi ya milioni 6 walivuka mpaka na kurudi kwao hiyo idadi nyingine imetoka wapi? na walibaki Congo wakifanya nini kama hawakuwa wapiganaji, manake wananchi wakawaida walikuwa wamesharudi:
Hivi unatofautishaje wapiganaji Interahamwe waliokufa kwenye mapigano na innocent civilians?
Hiyo 80% unaitoa wapi??

 

[Koba]

Ndio hapo kwenye tatizo sasa. Ingawa hutaki ngoja nikukumbushe kuwa over 80% ya wanyarwanda ni wahutu! Nani unadhani kaamua kuwa waliokufa wote ni watutsi na atakayejadili vinginevyo afungwe? Hii conclusion ya kwamba waliokufa majority ni watutsi inatolewa na nani? wanyarwanda wote (over 80% wahutu), au Kagame na RPF (watutsi) ambao walikuwa sehemu ya mgogoro na hivyo wana conflict of interest? Na ukumbuke kinachodaiwa hapa ni honest calculations sio blah blah.
Hesabu zote zenye common sense zinasema majority ya vifo ni vya wahutu. International community hata Obama juzi juzi inajua Rwandan genocide, hii habari ya genocide against tutsi hata huko Rwanda imekuja juzi tu.

We know ur phony so acha kutupotezea muda with your fuzzy math,tuambie huyu Charles Kagabo yuko wapi?zawadi yako inakusubiri
CHARLES KAGABO. That is the name that still sends the chills down many a people’s spine in the present day Ruhango District, formerly Ntongwe commune.

For each chill the name gives the people, the opposite reaction is the longing for the day Kagabo, a former bourgoumestre (mayor), would be brought to justice. He remains at large, 20 years later.

Kagabo, who is believed to have been the leader of militiamen that executed thousands in his mayoral jurisdiction as well as surrounding districts, especially in the then Mugina commune, is described as merciless, cold, calculative and vicious in his plots to exterminate Tutsis.

Survivors in both Kamonyi and the neighbouring Ruhango District accuse Kagabo and Burundian refugees in the area at the time of being at the forefront of the killings there.

Kagabo is said to have come up with “an elaborate plan to kill Tutsis and executed it with utmost care and in minute detail.”

The Burundians in question were those who were sheltered at the Nyagahama refugee camp, in the then Ntongwe commune.

“They [the Burundians] were stationed there in preparation of the killings which they would eventually commit,” says Samuel Dusabiyumva, a survivor and the head of the committee organising the burial of some 60,000 area Genocide victims.

“It was a plan to have them near places considered strategic and where it was believed Tutsis could hide.”

Nyagahama is also the place where the Burundians were picked from, paid, offered free transport and promised other rewards by then local leaders to kill Tutsis who had gathered in the then Mugina commune.

“He was tactical in his methods. He first targeted rich Tutsis and intellectuals. He emphasised both quality and quantity [in his killings] methods,” Dusabiyumva says of Kagabo.
Other survivors described Kagabo as “a mischievous leader who used his skills to exterminate Tutsis.”

“He was like a chameleon,” Dusabiyumva says. “He knew how to approach militiamen to mobilise them to kill and he had the charms to approach some Tutsis to know where they were planning to hide or escape through so he could send his killers after them.”

Critical role

Sources say Kagabo was a medical worker and that he was sent to lead Ntongwe commune in the build up to the Genocide.

“May be the appointing authority knew him as someone who would successfully execute their genocidal plan,” Dusabiyumva says.

The Burundians enlisted by Kagabo joined hands with militia groups, gendarmes and soldiers to exterminate Tutsis, according to testimonies.

“If Kagabo was not the leader of the commune, the killings would never have been at the scale we saw. I bet so many Tutsis could have survived,” says Dusabiyumva.

Survivors believe Kagabo is alive and at large, probably in DR Congo.

It is estimated that more than 60,000 Tutsis perished in the former Ntongwe sector. The victims are set to be given a decent burial at a new memorial site being built in the area.

Testimonies indicate that the Burundians had been trained and offered military equipment in the build up to the Genocide. They used traditional weapons, grenades and rifles to execute Tutsis, survivors said.

“What they did was unimaginable. They killed Tutsis in the most horrific of ways. What saddens us the most is that they are still free, going about their lives in their country. The government should do everything possible to bring them to book,” Marie Claire Niyomujeje, a survivor, says.

Jean de Dieu Mucyo, the executive secretary for the National Commission for the Fight against the Genocide, said efforts to track the Burundians and other foreigners accused of playing a role in the Genocide has been ongoing.

“I am confident that time will come when they will face justice,” he said.

 

[kabavamwo]

Hiyo percentage ya uhutu na utusi ni ya kabla ya Uhuru. Logically, idadi kubwa inategemewa kuongezeka zaidi ukilinganisha na idadi ndogo.
Lakini kuna angalizo! Wazungu walitumia vipimo ambavyo si DNA za sasa. Walitumia vigezo vya ukubwa wa poa, urefu kiumbo na urefu wa mbavu. Scientifically, vigezo hivi havina ukweli kwani familia moja inaweza kuwa na watu wanaotofautiana kimaumbile na hivyo hai-justify kabila la mtu.
Kuna ripoti nyingi zinazotoa taarifa tofauti za kukidhi matakwa ya kusema majority na minority. Sensa ya 1988 kipindi hicho nilikuwa kwenye shirika la kimataifa huko Rwanda ilionyesha kuwa Watusi walikuwa asilimia kama 40 (40%) bila ya kuwahusisha walikuwa nje ya nchi wengi wao wakiwa watusi. Ripoti ilizuiliwa kutoka ingawa tuliweza kuiona kutokana na kuwa wadau wa sensa hiyo.

Point ni kuwa, wingi wa kabila hau-justify kuongoza nchi kwani hata Tanzania ingeongozwa na wasukuma na wanyamwezi ambao ndiyo walio wengi. Matatizo ambayo yapo nchi nyingi ni kuwa na uelewa mdogo na kushindwa kutofautisha ukabila na utendaji kazi.

Anjo

Siyo kweli kwamba wingi wa kundi haujustify kuongoza nchi. Mfano ulioutoa wa wasukuma ndani ya Tanzania ni sahihi kabisa. Kumbuka wasukuma ni kama 16% ndani ya TZ kama watutsi walivyo around 15% ndani ya rwanda. Hivyo wasukuma ni minority ndani ya population kubwa ya tanzania. Ingeshangaza sana kama JWTZ lingekuwa na more than 90% wasukuma, likawa na more than 90% top military officials, more than 70% kwenye cabinet kama ilivyo kwa watutsi wa rwanda wakati utawala wa nchi unaitwa ni wa kidemokrasia. Hiyo inawezekana zaidi kama utawala uliopo ni wa kidikteta.

Halafu pia, hizo statistics unazotoa ni za kufikirika na si za kweli kwa sababu haziko rasmi. Takwimu ambazo zinaweza kuaminika zaidi ni zile zilizofanywa na serikali na kuwakuta watutsi ni asilimia isiyozidi 15%. Na kwa vile hata utawala wa sasa wa RWANDA ambao unafanywa na watutsi umeamua kufuta makabila nchini Rwanda KWA KUWAITA wote ni WANYARWANDA badala ya kutambua makabila ya wahutu, watutsi na watwa, hii inadihirisha kuwa idadi ya watutsi ni ndogo sana, hivyo kuficha ukweli huo ili waendelee kuwakalia majority.

 

[jMali]

Kutokana na maelezo ya mtoa mada, inaonekana kuwa hawa tatutsi hawakuwa na hii myth ya Tutsi empire kwani wangebaki kwenye hizi nchi si wangeweza kuziongoza baadae? Nakumbuka walivyoondoka kurudi kwao mwaka 1994 watu walilalamika kuwa wamerudi kwao ilhali wamesomeshwa nchini kwetu na walikuwa wamepewa uraia wa tanzania. Mimi nawaona Kama watu wanaopenda asili yao kuliko nchi nyingine.

Tatizo sio wao kuwa wakimbizi, mkimbizi siku zote ana kwao, akirudi Rwanda hamna matatizo kwa sababu anajulikana toka mwanzo kuwa ni mkimbizi. Tatizo ni hawa pseudo-Tanzanians. Mtanzania ambaye sote tunajua ni mtanzania kumbe mwenzetu moyoni ni Mnyarwanda. Hawa ni hatari kwa sababu wanaweza kuwa katika nafasi nyeti nchini kwetu wakati wanafanya kazi kwa maelezo ya Rwanda. Hapo katika mada unaweza kuona jinsi baadhi wasivyo na connection yoyote na ukimbizi lakini bado wakajiunga jeshi la 'wakimbizi' na baadae kurudi 'kwao'. Mtu anafikia cheo cha amiri jeshi mkuu msaidizi halafu anahamia nchi jirani anapewa ukuu mwingine wa jeshi, hii ni hatari.

 

[jMali]

Hiyo percentage ya uhutu na utusi ni ya kabla ya Uhuru. Logically, idadi kubwa inategemewa kuongezeka zaidi ukilinganisha na idadi ndogo.
Lakini kuna angalizo! Wazungu walitumia vipimo ambavyo si DNA za sasa. Walitumia vigezo vya ukubwa wa poa, urefu kiumbo na urefu wa mbavu. Scientifically, vigezo hivi havina ukweli kwani familia moja inaweza kuwa na watu wanaotofautiana kimaumbile na hivyo hai-justify kabila la mtu.
Kuna ripoti nyingi zinazotoa taarifa tofauti za kukidhi matakwa ya kusema majority na minority. Sensa ya 1988 kipindi hicho nilikuwa kwenye shirika la kimataifa huko Rwanda ilionyesha kuwa Watusi walikuwa asilimia kama 40 (40%) bila ya kuwahusisha walikuwa nje ya nchi wengi wao wakiwa watusi. Ripoti ilizuiliwa kutoka ingawa tuliweza kuiona kutokana na kuwa wadau wa sensa hiyo.

Point ni kuwa, wingi wa kabila hau-justify kuongoza nchi kwani hata Tanzania ingeongozwa na wasukuma na wanyamwezi ambao ndiyo walio wengi. Matatizo ambayo yapo nchi nyingi ni kuwa na uelewa mdogo na kushindwa kutofautisha ukabila na utendaji kazi.

Anjo

1. Sensa zote tena zinazotambulika na Rwanda hata leo ni hizi hapa:

" The first census has shown that the total population was 4,831,527 in 1978 while the second one resulted in a total population of 7,148,496 in 1991. The third one has counted 8,128,553 people in 2002" source: statistics.gov.rw.

Serikali ya leo haiweki namba za wahutu na watutsi, lakini sensa ya mwisho ya 1991 iliweka watutsi wakiwa 8.4%. Sensa hii ilifanyika kwa ushirikiano na UN (UNDP, UNFAP, CEA), ikidhaminiwa na nchi kama US na Canada.
Baada ya Genocide, kutokana na serikali ya Rwanda kupiga marufuku kuhesabu makabila, bado credible sources kama UN zina-estimate kuwa idadi ya watutsi max haizidi 15% .Tafadhali lete source ya hiyo sensa yako ya mwaka 1988 ambayo haina reference popote inayowapa watutsi 40%.

2. "Wingi wa kabila hau-justify kuongoza nchi". Katika hali ya kawaida this is true. Lakini usisahau kuwa watutsi walikuwa wafalme wakati wengine wote hawakuruhusiwa kuwa katika uongozi by law! Hivyo usifananishe na wasukuma na wanyamwezi. Hapa kwetu fananisha na wazungu masettler wa ukoloni, vizazi vya wale magoverner wa malkia. Baada ya uhuru let's say hawa wazungu (ambao leo hii ni watanzania kama sisi wabantu) wangekuwa ndio wanaunda serikali nzima, majority ya bunge, wakuu wa wilaya, majority ya jeshi, usalama wa taifa, wakurugenzi wa mashirika ya umma, madiwani, katibu kata...Na hata kunapokuwa na nafasi ambayo hawawezi ku-cover, wanarecruit wazungu wengine nje ya nchi ili kuja kuchukua positions hizo, alimradi tu wabantu tusipate, unadhani bado ungeendelea na hoja yako ya wingi vs uchache?
Mapinduzi yalilenga kuleta usawa, leo hii waliopinduliwa wanarudisha hali ile ile iliyoleta mapinduzi in the first place.

 

[jMali]

Idadi kubwa au ndogo ya waliouawa ndio ufafanuzi wa neno Genocide?,hapa tunaongelea maandalizi na utekelezaji wa mauaji hayo🙁kwa hiyo hata kama wa Hutu waliokufa ndio wengi, hai justify kwamba ni Genocide):
Hata tukikubali your imaginary statistics haiondoi ukweli kuwa mauaji dhidi ya Wa Tutsi yaliandaliwa na kutekelezwa na serikali iliyokuwepo:
Hao majority waliokufa unasema walifia nchini Congo naweza kukuuliza how sure are you kwamba waliuawa na wanajeshi wa Rwanda, Mwaka 1996 zaidi ya milioni 6 walivuka mpaka na kurudi kwao hiyo idadi nyingine imetoka wapi? na walibaki Congo wakifanya nini kama hawakuwa wapiganaji, manake wananchi wakawaida walikuwa wamesharudi:
Hivi unatofautishaje wapiganaji Interahamwe waliokufa kwenye mapigano na innocent civilians?
Hiyo 80% unaitoa wapi??

1. Kuhusu maandalizi na utekelezaji kuwa ndio vigezo vya genocide, tafadhali rejea latest rulings za ICTR ambazo zimeonyesha pasi na shaka kuwa hakukuwa na maandalizi ya mauaji hivyo hakukuwa na genocide. wanaofungwa walitiwa hatiani kwa kufanya uzembe kutozuia mauaji tu.

"The real news was that ALL of the top Rwandan military officers, including the supposedly infamous Colonel Bagosora, were found not guilty of conspiracy or planning to commit genocide. And Gen. Gratien Kabiligi, a senior member of the general staff was acquitted of all charges! The others were found guilty of specific acts committed by subordinates, in specific places, at specific times - not an overall conspiracy to kill civilians, much less Rwandan-Tutsi civilians."

source:http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2008/12/rwanda-no-conspiracy-no-genocide.php

"After seventeen years of investigations and trials, the ICTR ends up with no mastermind behind the genocide. "

source: ICTR: Rwandan genocide - no master plan | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

2. Imaginary statistics? how? nimerefer mpaka national statistics institute ya Rwanda inayoendeshwa na Kagame leo hii, statistics zote nilizotoa zimefanywa chini ya UN 1991! Naomba wewe utoe hizo 'real' statistics na sources zako badala ya kugeuka koba na murutongore.

3. Qoute: "haiondoi ukweli kuwa mauaji dhidi ya Wa Tutsi yaliandaliwa na kutekelezwa na serikali iliyokuwepo":
jibu: Swala hili tayari ICTR imethibitisha kuwa halikuwapo. Imethibitika kuwa dai hili ni uzushi na propaganda za Kagame tu. Ninaku-challenge ulete uthibitisho wowote, popote pale unaoonyesha vinginevyo, lakini mahakama imeshaonyesha ukweli. rejea namba 1 kwa ajili ya sources.

4. Usichanganye mada, wahutu waliouawa congo ni topic nyingine (itahitaji thred yake), mimi naongelea 'genocide' hii hii ya 1994, nazungumzia hawa hawa watu waliokufa estimated 800,000 up to a million. Hoja yangu ni kuwa hawa marehemu majority ni wahutu! Get back to the topic, ukitaka tujadili hiyo genocide against hutu in congo iliyofanywa na Kagame tuandae thread nyingine.

5. Interahamwe hawakuwa majority ya waliokufa, wala usitake ku-imply hivyo, ushahidi wenu wenyewe unadai interahamwe walikuwa armed na mapanga na majembe, wangewezaje kupambana na RPA yenye bunduki na mabomu? Unless unataka kudai interahamwe walikuwa wendawazimu! jeshi lenyewe tu la Rwanda lililokuwa na silaha pia lilipigwa ndio itakuwa interahamwe? Interahamwe kilikuwa kikundi kidogo tu cha watu, kama unazo sources zinazodai vingine zilete hapa tujadili. Majority ya waliokufa ni innocent civilians.
Ujanja mwingine ni wa kauli mbiu ya serikali ya kagame kuwa waliokufa walikuwa majority watutsi plus 'moderate' hutus only, hiyo inaimply kuwa hakuna askari hata mmoja wa jeshi la rwanda (FAR) aliyekufa, hakuna interahamwe hata mmoja aliyekufa wote wako congo wakijiita FDLR! na hivyo kupata kisingizio cha kuterrorize wakimbizi wa kihutu kuwa wao ndio wauaji, hivi kama waliokufa ni watutsi na moderate hutus, RPA walikuwa wanapigana na nani? Mbona kama washindi ndio wamekimbia?

6. Hapo hapo kwenye mapigano naomba nikuulize swali binafsi, je unakubali kuwa wananchi wa kawaida kabisa waRwanda (ambao sio wanajeshi wala sio interahamwe) walikuwa na uhalali wa kupambana na majeshi ya Kagame kwa kuwa alikuwa anavamia nchi yao? Au wewe ungekuwa kijana wa kawaida kabisa 1994, usingepambana na 'waasi' wa RPA kama mzalendo yoyote yule?

7. Quote: "Hiyo 80% unaitoa wapi?". Mkuu nahisi unaanza kuishiwa unabisha mpaka hili, statistics zote mpaka sasa zinaestimate watutsi hawazidi 15% hivyo lazima wahutu watakuwa zaidi ya 80% with the rest watwa, mbona simple? Au wewe una statistics nyingine tofauti, zilete hapa tujadili.

 

[jMali]

We know ur phony so acha kutupotezea muda with your fuzzy math,tuambie huyu Charles Kagabo yuko wapi?zawadi yako inakusubiri
CHARLES KAGABO. That is the name that still sends the chills down many a people's spine in the present day Ruhango District, formerly Ntongwe commune.

For each chill the name gives the people, the opposite reaction is the longing for the day Kagabo, a former bourgoumestre (mayor), would be brought to justice. He remains at large, 20 years later.

Kagabo, who is believed to have been the leader of militiamen that executed thousands in his mayoral jurisdiction as well as surrounding districts, especially in the then Mugina commune, is described as merciless, cold, calculative and vicious in his plots to exterminate Tutsis.

Survivors in both Kamonyi and the neighbouring Ruhango District accuse Kagabo and Burundian refugees in the area at the time of being at the forefront of the killings there.

Kagabo is said to have come up with "an elaborate plan to kill Tutsis and executed it with utmost care and in minute detail."

The Burundians in question were those who were sheltered at the Nyagahama refugee camp, in the then Ntongwe commune.

"They [the Burundians] were stationed there in preparation of the killings which they would eventually commit," says Samuel Dusabiyumva, a survivor and the head of the committee organising the burial of some 60,000 area Genocide victims.

"It was a plan to have them near places considered strategic and where it was believed Tutsis could hide."

Nyagahama is also the place where the Burundians were picked from, paid, offered free transport and promised other rewards by then local leaders to kill Tutsis who had gathered in the then Mugina commune.

"He was tactical in his methods. He first targeted rich Tutsis and intellectuals. He emphasised both quality and quantity [in his killings] methods," Dusabiyumva says of Kagabo.
Other survivors described Kagabo as "a mischievous leader who used his skills to exterminate Tutsis."

"He was like a chameleon," Dusabiyumva says. "He knew how to approach militiamen to mobilise them to kill and he had the charms to approach some Tutsis to know where they were planning to hide or escape through so he could send his killers after them."

Critical role

Sources say Kagabo was a medical worker and that he was sent to lead Ntongwe commune in the build up to the Genocide.

"May be the appointing authority knew him as someone who would successfully execute their genocidal plan," Dusabiyumva says.

The Burundians enlisted by Kagabo joined hands with militia groups, gendarmes and soldiers to exterminate Tutsis, according to testimonies.

"If Kagabo was not the leader of the commune, the killings would never have been at the scale we saw. I bet so many Tutsis could have survived," says Dusabiyumva.

Survivors believe Kagabo is alive and at large, probably in DR Congo.

It is estimated that more than 60,000 Tutsis perished in the former Ntongwe sector. The victims are set to be given a decent burial at a new memorial site being built in the area.

Testimonies indicate that the Burundians had been trained and offered military equipment in the build up to the Genocide. They used traditional weapons, grenades and rifles to execute Tutsis, survivors said.

"What they did was unimaginable. They killed Tutsis in the most horrific of ways. What saddens us the most is that they are still free, going about their lives in their country. The government should do everything possible to bring them to book," Marie Claire Niyomujeje, a survivor, says.

Jean de Dieu Mucyo, the executive secretary for the National Commission for the Fight against the Genocide, said efforts to track the Burundians and other foreigners accused of playing a role in the Genocide has been ongoing.

"I am confident that time will come when they will face justice," he said.

1. As usual "umesahau" kuweka source, ngoja nikusaidie kama kawaida. the source is here: Kagabo, the butcher of Ntongwe - The New Times Rwanda! Gazeti la serikali ya RPF!

2. I don't know this charles kabago, lakini ninavyojua ni makosa ku-expose identity ya mtu hapa JF. Kwa wewe kuniita mimi charles whoever ni kosa linalohitaji ban, nadhani mamod wahusike hapa.

3. Hii ina uhusiano gani na kitu ambacho umeni-quote? hata chizi anaona wazi kuwa umeishiwa! Hii inawezaje kuwa jibu la hii (my post)

 

[MGOSI132]

Unfortunately hukusoma report niliyopost, ila UN inaonyesha jinsi ilivyo julishwa na Romeo Dallaire juu ya mpango uliokuwepo wa kuua wa Tutsi, report ilitumwa kabla hata ya mauaji kuanza and that is credible more than that of the Radio station you are quoting!:
Nimesema imaginary statistics kwani nijuavyo serikali ya sasa hakuna sensa yoyote iwe ya serikali au NGO au UN organization iliyofanywa ikihesabu idadi ya kabila hizo, 1991 statistics nishasema kwamba zilikuwa politically motivated;
Ieleweke kwamba kwangu sijali kama wa Tutsi ni wachache au wengi ninacho sisitiza ni kwamba mauaji dhidi ya Wa Tutsi yali pangwa na kusimamiwa na serikali:

Nadhani credible source ni kutoka kwa General Dallaire aliyekuwa anaongoza majeshi ya UN kipindi hicho, umeniuliza evidence ya kupangwa kwa mauaji baada ya wewe kutoa source ya Radi station moja, mimi na quote statements za aliyekuwa anaongoza UNAMIR kama alivyo ongea na CNN As genocide raged, general's pleas for help ignored - CNN.com)

"On January 20, 1994, Dallaire made a chilling discovery: An informant warned him that Hutu government agents were planning bloodshed.

"They were going to conduct an outright slaughter and elimination of the opposition," Dallaire said.
Dallaire cabled his bosses in New York, warning that his informant "has been ordered to register all Tutsi in Kigali. He suspects it is for their extermination."
The informant described a major weapons cache, which Dallaire said he planned to raid in the next 36 hours.

Watch Dallaire describe the warnings from the informant »
Kofi Annan, then head of the U.N. Department of Peacekeeping Operations, was concerned about the safety of Dallaire's limited U.N. force. Annan's office told Dallaire: "We cannot agree to the operation contemplated ... as it clearly goes beyond the mandate."

RPA walikuwa busy wakipigana na majeshi ya serikali, wangejishirikisha na kuua raia sidhani kama ushindi ungepatikana dhidi ya serikali:
On the other side majeshi ya serikali yalishindwa kwani nguvu na resources ziliishia kuua raia wasio na hatia badala ya kupigana na adui:
Nijuavyo ukitaka kupigania nchi unaingia jeshini, vinginevyo kumtuma raia asiye na ujuzi wa vita kwenda kupigana it is also a crime, hata hivyo kama raia hao walikuwa wanapigania nchi kama ulivyo sema, then walifia kwenye mapigano na ukienda vitani, na kufia kwenye uwanja wa mapigano sioni kuwa ni jambo lisilo la kawaida:
Kuhusu kuandaa mauaji, hii ni kwa wale wanaofuatilia hii thread manake for you i know you know it ila una ignore intentionally;
Mashimo yaliyoyo kuwa yamefukuliwa kabla ya mauaji yalikuwa ya nini?List za Wa Tutsi zilizokuwa zimeandaliwa zilikuwa za nini?
Hii yote ilikuwa ni mpango mzima wa serikali kuua wa Tutsi:

 

[Koba]

1. As usual "umesahau" kuweka source, ngoja nikusaidie kama kawaida. the source is here: Kagabo, the butcher of Ntongwe - The New Times Rwanda! Gazeti la serikali ya RPF!

2. I don't know this charles kabago, lakini ninavyojua ni makosa ku-expose identity ya mtu hapa JF. Kwa wewe kuniita mimi charles whoever ni kosa linalohitaji ban, nadhani mamod wahusike hapa.

3. Hii ina uhusiano gani na kitu ambacho umeni-quote? hata chizi anaona wazi kuwa umeishiwa! Hii inawezaje kuwa jibu la hii (my post)

Mbona una panic? Expose identity? Lazima utakuwa chizi wewe kufikiria hivyo,huyo butcher sio identity ya mtu humu jf so hakuna violation Yeyote hapo,wewe ni classic genocide denial... you need help kabla real world haija catch up na wewe na kukupa lesson, nakuuliza tena where is Charles kagabo na zawadi ipo usisahau

 

[Bongolander]

Siyo kweli kwamba wingi wa kundi haujustify kuongoza nchi. Mfano ulioutoa wa wasukuma ndani ya Tanzania ni sahihi kabisa. Kumbuka wasukuma ni kama 16% ndani ya TZ kama watutsi walivyo around 15% ndani ya rwanda. Hivyo wasukuma ni minority ndani ya population kubwa ya tanzania. Ingeshangaza sana kama JWTZ lingekuwa na more than 90% wasukuma, likawa na more than 90% top military officials, more than 70% kwenye cabinet kama ilivyo kwa watutsi wa rwanda wakati utawala wa nchi unaitwa ni wa kidemokrasia. Hiyo inawezekana zaidi kama utawala uliopo ni wa kidikteta.

Halafu pia, hizo statistics unazotoa ni za kufikirika na si za kweli kwa sababu haziko rasmi. Takwimu ambazo zinaweza kuaminika zaidi ni zile zilizofanywa na serikali na kuwakuta watutsi ni asilimia isiyozidi 15%. Na kwa vile hata utawala wa sasa wa RWANDA ambao unafanywa na watutsi umeamua kufuta makabila nchini Rwanda KWA KUWAITA wote ni WANYARWANDA badala ya kutambua makabila ya wahutu, watutsi na watwa, hii inadihirisha kuwa idadi ya watutsi ni ndogo sana, hivyo kuficha ukweli huo ili waendelee kuwakalia majority.

Wakuu bado ntaendelea kusema kuwa Rwanda ina serikali nzuri, licha ya mabaya yanayofanyika sasa. Tunasikia na wengine wameona kuwa Rwanda kweli imepiga hatua. Lakini kusema kuwa Rwanda ni nchi ya demokrasia, itategemea tafsiri yako ya neno demokrasia. Ni sawa na mtu kusema Uganda ni nchi ya kidemokrasia.

Wananchi wa Rwanda wanaishi kwa woga, hapa JF rais wetu kila kukicha anatukwana hata kwenye katuni tunamchora na kumkejeli as we wish, au Kenya UK naye kila kukicha hata anatukanwa, lakini anajua kuwa anaongoza nchi yenye uhuru na demokrasia. You dare kumkejeli PK Rwanda, utaona moto wake.

 

[jMali]

Mbona una panic? Expose identity? Lazima utakuwa chizi wewe kufikiria hivyo,huyo butcher sio identity ya mtu humu jf so hakuna violation Yeyote hapo,wewe ni classic genocide denial... you need help kabla real world haija catch up na wewe na kukupa lesson, nakuuliza tena where is Charles kagabo na zawadi ipo usisahau

1. Kama unajua kuwa humu hakuna this charles chap kwa nini umenipachika hilo jina quote: "zawadi yako inakusubiri
CHARLES KAGABO.", na hapo juu tayari umeshaniita chizi...Naanza kufikiria kujiban myself kujibizana na wewe. Kuhusu so called genocide denial, nimeshaonyesha kuwa ICTR inakubaliana na mimi, who are you kwenda kinyume na maamuzi ya mahakama? Mmeshitaki watu for genocide, ICTR imetupilia mbali kesi zenu, imeshajulikana kuwa hakukuwa na genocide so therefore huwezi kudeny existence ya kitu ambacho hakikuwapo in the first place.

2. Kuhusu this charles kagabo guy. Honestly i don't know a single thing about this guy, (after all i'm Tanzanian not Rwandan). I've never heard of him before you mentioned him, let alone know where he is. I bet he is one of the many unfortunate Hutus wanaoandamwa na serikali yenu. If he is a criminal then i pray he faces justice like any other criminals including Kagame+RPF.

 

[jMali]

Unfortunately hukusoma report niliyopost, ila UN inaonyesha jinsi ilivyo julishwa na Romeo Dallaire juu ya mpango uliokuwepo wa kuua wa Tutsi, report ilitumwa kabla hata ya mauaji kuanza and that is credible more than that of the Radio station you are quoting!:
Nimesema imaginary statistics kwani nijuavyo serikali ya sasa hakuna sensa yoyote iwe ya serikali au NGO au UN organization iliyofanywa ikihesabu idadi ya kabila hizo, 1991 statistics nishasema kwamba zilikuwa politically motivated;
Ieleweke kwamba kwangu sijali kama wa Tutsi ni wachache au wengi ninacho sisitiza ni kwamba mauaji dhidi ya Wa Tutsi yali pangwa na kusimamiwa na serikali:

Nadhani credible source ni kutoka kwa General Dallaire aliyekuwa anaongoza majeshi ya UN kipindi hicho, umeniuliza evidence ya kupangwa kwa mauaji baada ya wewe kutoa source ya Radi station moja, mimi na quote statements za aliyekuwa anaongoza UNAMIR kama alivyo ongea na CNN As genocide raged, general's pleas for help ignored - CNN.com)

"On January 20, 1994, Dallaire made a chilling discovery: An informant warned him that Hutu government agents were planning bloodshed.

"They were going to conduct an outright slaughter and elimination of the opposition," Dallaire said.
Dallaire cabled his bosses in New York, warning that his informant "has been ordered to register all Tutsi in Kigali. He suspects it is for their extermination."
The informant described a major weapons cache, which Dallaire said he planned to raid in the next 36 hours.

Watch Dallaire describe the warnings from the informant »
Kofi Annan, then head of the U.N. Department of Peacekeeping Operations, was concerned about the safety of Dallaire's limited U.N. force. Annan's office told Dallaire: "We cannot agree to the operation contemplated ... as it clearly goes beyond the mandate."

RPA walikuwa busy wakipigana na majeshi ya serikali, wangejishirikisha na kuua raia sidhani kama ushindi ungepatikana dhidi ya serikali:
On the other side majeshi ya serikali yalishindwa kwani nguvu na resources ziliishia kuua raia wasio na hatia badala ya kupigana na adui:
Nijuavyo ukitaka kupigania nchi unaingia jeshini, vinginevyo kumtuma raia asiye na ujuzi wa vita kwenda kupigana it is also a crime, hata hivyo kama raia hao walikuwa wanapigania nchi kama ulivyo sema, then walifia kwenye mapigano na ukienda vitani, na kufia kwenye uwanja wa mapigano sioni kuwa ni jambo lisilo la kawaida:
Kuhusu kuandaa mauaji, hii ni kwa wale wanaofuatilia hii thread manake for you i know you know it ila una ignore intentionally;
Mashimo yaliyoyo kuwa yamefukuliwa kabla ya mauaji yalikuwa ya nini?List za Wa Tutsi zilizokuwa zimeandaliwa zilikuwa za nini?
Hii yote ilikuwa ni mpango mzima wa serikali kuua wa Tutsi:

Kwa hiyo tuachane na hukumu ya MAHAKAMA MAALUM YA MAUAJI YA 94 ICTR, iliyoamua kuwa HAKUKUWA na mpango wa genocide, badala yake tuamini maneno ya dallaire ambaye ushahidi wake tayari ulizingatiwa kabla ya hukumu?

Huyu dallaire alikwenda ICTR na alikuwa shahidi wa kutegemewa na upande wa mashtaka. Hukumu ilikuja kama iliyo! HAKUKUWA na mpango wa genocide! Ndio maana Bagosora kapunguziwa kifungo. Huo ushahidi mwingine wa mashimo n.k (btw, hata mimi nina sources zinasema mashimo yalichimbwa na kina kagame) pia ulitolewa mahakamani lakini haukufaa. Hivyo kuendelea ku-insist ushahidi ambao haukufua dafu mahakamani haina maana.

Kuhusu swala la list, kama lengo lilikuwa kuua watutsi wote hakukuwa na haja ya kuandaa list. List ilikuwa ya specific tutsis ambao walikuwa wanashirikiana na waasi/terrorists wa RPF that was all. Kama ilikuwa genocide against tutsi list ingekuwa ya nini, kwani wahutu na watutsi hawajuani?

Nimekuuliza kama unakubali kuwa ni halali kwa raia mzalendo kupigania nchi yake dhidi ya waasi, sijasema kuwa walitumwa. je wewe unaonaje ni halali au si halali. Mfano: kama mimi ningekuwa mhutu halafu nikajitolea kuhifadhi wanajeshi wa serikali (FAR) nyumbani kwangu, nikawapa chakula n.k wakati wakipigana na RPF ni halali au si halali?

 

[Koba]

1. Kama unajua kuwa humu hakuna this charles chap kwa nini umenipachika hilo jina quote: "zawadi yako inakusubiri
CHARLES KAGABO.", na hapo juu tayari umeshaniita chizi...Naanza kufikiria kujiban myself kujibizana na wewe. Kuhusu so called genocide denial, nimeshaonyesha kuwa ICTR inakubaliana na mimi, who are you kwenda kinyume na maamuzi ya mahakama? Mmeshitaki watu for genocide, ICTR imetupilia mbali kesi zenu, imeshajulikana kuwa hakukuwa na genocide so therefore huwezi kudeny existence ya kitu ambacho hakikuwapo in the first place.

2. Kuhusu this charles kagabo guy. Honestly i don't know a single thing about this guy, (after all i'm Tanzanian not Rwandan). I've never heard of him before you mentioned him, let alone know where he is. I bet he is one of the many unfortunate Hutus wanaoandamwa na serikali yenu. If he is a criminal then i pray he faces justice like any other criminals including Kagame+RPF.

Loooool,eti ICTR inakubaliana na wewe?na walioshitaki majambazi wenzako kina bagosora,kambanda etc kwa genocide na wote found guilty ni international community not Rwanda, lazima utakuwa mwehu wewe

 

[jMali]

Loooool,eti ICTR inakubaliana na wewe?na walioshitaki majambazi wenzako kina bagosora,kambanda etc kwa genocide na wote found guilty ni international community not Rwanda, lazima utakuwa mwehu wewe

kama nakuona unavyolegeza jicho na kuitoa hiyo "looool". Naona umemaliza matusi sasa umefika stage ya mipasho. hebu pitia hukumu za kina bagosora uone wamefungwa kwa lipi, nimeshakupa na links. Kama mimi mwehu wewe unayeshinda humu ndani kubishana na mimi "mwehu" tukuiteje?

 

[Koba]

kama nakuona unavyolegeza jicho na kuitoa hiyo "looool". Naona umemaliza matusi sasa umefika stage ya mipasho. hebu pitia hukumu za kina bagosora uone wamefungwa kwa lipi, nimeshakupa na links. Kama mimi mwehu wewe unayeshinda humu ndani kubishana na mimi "mwehu" tukuiteje?

Your racist genocidal ideology were defeated na wenzako kama wewe wananyea madebe for life...get over,you lost!

 

[Ruzibiza]

Uwaga mnafurahisha sana jinsi mnavyo msifia Kagame na maendeleo yenu (to some extent he deserves some of the accolades but realistically). Ukweli wenyewe ni kwamba Rwanda ni size ya mkoa mmoja mdogo sana ndani ya Tanzania na imekuwa ikipokea misaada sawa na nchi za Afrika from western doners if not more compared to many states.

Kwa maana hiyo hela inayoenda Rwanda inaweza stretch far quickly na mafanikio yakaonekana haraka tofauti na Tanzania kwenye population kubwa, size kubwa na changamoto kubwa including having enough man power to police the policies (ndio maana leo unaona watanzania wana waamsha viongozi wao huku chini wahusika wana haribu sera) our challenges are more than tutsi's vs hutu living in areas not the size of Dar-Es-Salaam, sort your problems they affect us with wakimbizi, wahamiaji haramu etc.

ni dalili ya udhaifu na kwa sera ya viti maalumu do u think u will ever come to realize the size doesnt matter and if at all the size makes a set back to development then China would've been the poorest country in the world....donors? are u insane? have u head of agaciro development fund?and because u are a woman u think kwa raslimali tz walizonazo wanahitaji hela kutoka kwa donors? "u are a woman, you cant think properly" Kanumba R.I.P in moses.... http://www.umushyikirano.gov.rw/IMG/pdf/agdf.pdf Rwanda believes customer care has something big to do with its ecomy read Upgrading customer care in Rwanda - The New Times Rwanda

 

[Eric Cartman]

ni dalili ya udhaifu na kwa sera ya viti maalumu do u think u will ever come to realize the size doesnt matter and if at all the size makes a set back to development then China would've been the poorest country in the world....donors? are u insane? have u head of agaciro development fund?and because u are a woman u think kwa raslimali tz walizonazo wanahitaji hela kutoka kwa donors? "u are a woman, you cant think properly" Kanumba R.I.P in moses.... http://www.umushyikirano.gov.rw/IMG/pdf/agdf.pdf Rwanda believes customer care has something big to do with its ecomy read Upgrading customer care in Rwanda - The New Times Rwanda

Blah blah blah ya mama, don't quote me no more in this hateful thread it belongs to Rwandese i'm a tanzanian we dont hate. Only we got fools who cant argue based on interest (in legal terms); if people cant distinguish what is personal and social interest na (katiba ndio chanzo) sasa nyie kama hamjui kama watanzania jinsi ya kutatua matatizo yenu it is not my problem. Mkitaka chinjaneni but dont bring refugees please.

ps the 'hima empire' mission wont succeed.

Me out, mtaji JJ.