Uraia wa waTutsi !

[Bongolander]

Kwanini kama mawazo yako yakiwa tofauti na ya mwingine unakuwa mbongo na kuanza kutoa matusi? utakuwa mtu wa maana sana kama ukitoa hoja na sio matusi. Hoja hapa ni utatanishi wa uraia wa watutsi, kama kuna mtu anayetoa hoja ya ovyo basi ajibiwe kwa hoja na hiyo hoja yake ionekane kuwa ovyo. Lakini pumba zitakuwa pumba tu na hoja zenye mashiko zitaendelea kuwa na mashiko.

 

[kabavamwo]

Your racist genocidal ideology were defeated na wenzako kama wewe wananyea madebe for life...get over,you lost!

Jibu kwa hoja na ukiona maji yamefika shingoni unaweza ukalala mbele pia

 

[MGOSI132]

[h=1]Mkuu Jmali, Unakataa just kwasababu hutaki kusikiliza ukweli, nashangaa unaposema kwama ICTR imekana kuwa hakukuwa na Genocide, sijasikia kama kulikuwa na official pronounciation ya kitu kama hicho:
Ume ng`ang`ana sana na kupunguziwa adhabu kwa Bagosora, hapo chini ni story ya BBC juu ya uamuzi wa ICTR;Tafadhali toa comment zako hapo kwenye red:
Wana maana gani wakisema kuwa;
1:Alikuwa anajua kuwa mauaji yatakuwepo(he knew about the plan)kitu ambacho wewe una insist kuwa mahakama imekataa:
2:Kwenye hukumu hiyo hiyo mahakama imeendelea kutumia neno Genocide:

Rwanda genocide: Bagosora's life sentence reduced[/h]

Bagosora was convicted three years ago
Continue reading the main story [h=2]Rwanda: Haunted Nation[/h]

A man who was seen as a key organiser of the Rwandan genocide has had his sentence reduced from life to 35 years.

Theoneste Bagosora was a senior figure in Rwanda's ministry of defence at the time of the massacres.
In 1994 around 800,000 people - mostly from the Tutsi ethnic group - were killed in just 100 days.
The UN-backed International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR) convicted Bagosora of genocide and crimes against humanity three years ago.
He was arrested 15 years ago in Cameroon and his trial at the Rwanda tribunal in the Tanzanian city of Arusha began in 2002.
Appeal judges in Arusha cleared him of some of the charges he faced, including ordering killings at roadblocks in the capital, Kigali.
But his convictions for genocide and crimes against humanity were upheld.

Co-accused to be freed The BBC's East Africa correspondent Will Ross says he decision has angered some Rwandans who are are questioning why a man who played such a key role in the genocide would have his sentence reduced.

Around 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed in Rwanda in 1994
They point to the fact that many others who were lowing ranking genocide convicts were given life sentences.
In 1994, Bagosora was chief of staff in the ministry of defence and effectively in charge of the soldiers who took part in the massacres.
The killings began after the plane carrying Rwanda's then-President Juvenal Habyarimana was shot down on 6 April 1994, killing everyone on board.
The appeals court found that he knew the crimes were going to be committed and did nothing to stop them, the AFP news agency reports.

At his trial, Bagosora, who is a Hutu, maintained he was a victim of propaganda by Rwanda's current Tutsi-dominated government.
Bagosora is 70 years old. With time already served, his 35-year sentence will see him imprisoned until he is 89.
One of the men convicted alongside Bagosora, Anatole Nsengiyumva, has had his sentence reduced on appeal to 15 years, and will be released because of time served, says AFP.

 

[jMali]

Mkuu Jmali, Unakataa just kwasababu hutaki kusikiliza ukweli, nashangaa unaposema kwama ICTR imekana kuwa hakukuwa na Genocide, sijasikia kama kulikuwa na official pronounciation ya kitu kama hicho:
Ume ng`ang`ana sana na kupunguziwa adhabu kwa Bagosora, hapo chini ni story ya BBC juu ya uamuzi wa ICTR;Tafadhali toa comment zako hapo kwenye red:
Wana maana gani wakisema kuwa;
1:Alikuwa anajua kuwa mauaji yatakuwepo(he knew about the plan)kitu ambacho wewe una insist kuwa mahakama imekataa:
2:Kwenye hukumu hiyo hiyo mahakama imeendelea kutumia neno Genocide:

Rwanda genocide: Bagosora's life sentence reduced

Bagosora was convicted three years ago
Continue reading the main story Rwanda: Haunted Nation



A man who was seen as a key organiser of the Rwandan genocide has had his sentence reduced from life to 35 years.

Theoneste Bagosora was a senior figure in Rwanda's ministry of defence at the time of the massacres.
In 1994 around 800,000 people - mostly from the Tutsi ethnic group - were killed in just 100 days.
The UN-backed International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR) convicted Bagosora of genocide and crimes against humanity three years ago.
He was arrested 15 years ago in Cameroon and his trial at the Rwanda tribunal in the Tanzanian city of Arusha began in 2002.
Appeal judges in Arusha cleared him of some of the charges he faced, including ordering killings at roadblocks in the capital, Kigali.
But his convictions for genocide and crimes against humanity were upheld.

Co-accused to be freed The BBC's East Africa correspondent Will Ross says he decision has angered some Rwandans who are are questioning why a man who played such a key role in the genocide would have his sentence reduced.

Around 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed in Rwanda in 1994
They point to the fact that many others who were lowing ranking genocide convicts were given life sentences.
In 1994, Bagosora was chief of staff in the ministry of defence and effectively in charge of the soldiers who took part in the massacres.
The killings began after the plane carrying Rwanda's then-President Juvenal Habyarimana was shot down on 6 April 1994, killing everyone on board.
The appeals court found that he knew the crimes were going to be committed and did nothing to stop them, the AFP news agency reports.

At his trial, Bagosora, who is a Hutu, maintained he was a victim of propaganda by Rwanda's current Tutsi-dominated government.
Bagosora is 70 years old. With time already served, his 35-year sentence will see him imprisoned until he is 89.
One of the men convicted alongside Bagosora, Anatole Nsengiyumva, has had his sentence reduced on appeal to 15 years, and will be released because of time served, says AFP.

1. unapotaka kumjibu mtu unatakiwa either u-mention au u-quote, otherwise ninaweza nisione post yako, au unaogopa kujibiwa?

2. we soma hiyo mimi tayari nimeshakupa source yangu juu ya bagosora, sasa kama unaweza kaipinge ile niliyotoa badala ya kuleta source yako. Onyesha ni wapi ambapo source yangu imedanganya, otherwise tutakuwa tunashindana mtazamo half-full vs half-empty badala ya facts.

 

[murutongore]

1. unapotaka kumjibu mtu unatakiwa either u-mention au u-quote, otherwise ninaweza nisione post yako, au unaogopa kujibiwa?

2. we soma hiyo mimi tayari nimeshakupa source yangu juu ya bagosora, sasa kama unaweza kaipinge ile niliyotoa badala ya kuleta source yako. Onyesha ni wapi ambapo source yangu imedanganya, otherwise tutakuwa tunashindana mtazamo half-full vs half-empty badala ya facts.

Wewe si ndio unajifanya kuleta source zako zinazomilikiwa na genociders! Sasa yeye amekuwekea source ambayo ni BBC..au nao wanamilikiwa na Kagame. LOL.

BBC News - Rwanda genocide: Bagosora's life sentence reduced

Fungua hiyo link hapo na uisome vizuri utaona sentensi hii hapa..."But his convictions for genocide and crimes against humanity were upheld".

Let me repeat it for you... his conviction for GENOCIDE were upheld. What this means you dimwit is that ICTR recognises that there was genocide commited against tutsis and moderate hutus. Now, I have not seen any Tutsis being tried in Arusha!!! The last time I heard, all these masterminders of genocide are on the run and each has a $5M bounty on their heads. Ukiwaona waambie hivi "you can run but you can't hide forever"..tutawakamata tu.

 

[jMali]

Wewe si ndio unajifanya kuleta source zako zinazomilikiwa na genociders! Sasa yeye amekuwekea source ambayo ni BBC..au nao wanamilikiwa na Kagame. LOL.

BBC News - Rwanda genocide: Bagosora's life sentence reduced

Fungua hiyo link hapo na uisome vizuri utaona sentensi hii hapa..."But his convictions for genocide and crimes against humanity were upheld".

Let me repeat it for you... his conviction for GENOCIDE were upheld. What this means you dimwit is that ICTR recognises that there was genocide commited against tutsis and moderate hutus. Now, I have not seen any Tutsis being tried in Arusha!!! The last time I heard, all these masterminders of genocide are on the run and each has a $5M bounty on their heads. Ukiwaona waambie hivi "you can run but you can't hide forever"..tutawakamata tu.

Ndio matatizo ya kudandia treni kwa mbele, hivi unajua mjadala wangu na mwenzio ni nini? Tunaongelea planning of genocide. Ndio maana unakwepa kusema kwa nini hiyo life sentence imekuwa reduced. Bagosora kufungwa kwa genocide haimaanishi yeye ndio genocidaire, hiyo ni terminology ya jumla ya shitaka. Narudia tena rudi ukaanze mwanzo wa mjadala wetu na mwenzio. Prove kama genocide ilikuwa planned.

"To have an idea of the basis on which Bagosora is finally convicted, one has to read and understand the following sentence: "While the Trial Chamber could not have relied upon the finding that Bagosora must have ordered or authorised the crimes to find that he bore superior responsibility for failing to fulfil his duty to prevent them, Bagosora's convictions may be upheld if the Trial Chamber's factual findings support the conclusion that Bagosora failed to take the necessary and reasonable measures to prevent these crimes." The Appeals Chamber found that they do – and only that."

source:ICTR: Rwandan genocide - no master plan (long version) | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

 

[Mayunga96]

Watutsi wamewanyanyasa sana wahutu kabla ya 1994, na kwa sasa wanaendelea kuwakandamiza...this is sad...Ombi langu ni kwamba wasiendeshwe na Tamaa za rasilimali na kupata nguvu hadi kuwachokoza watz.

 

[Koba]

Watutsi wamewanyanyasa sana wahutu kabla ya 1994, na kwa sasa wanaendelea kuwakandamiza...this is sad...Ombi langu ni kwamba wasiendeshwe na Tamaa za rasilimali na kupata nguvu hadi kuwachokoza watz.

Before 1994 watutsi wengi wa Rwanda walikuwa wakimbizi dunia nzima,hao kina kagame walikuwa wakimbizi pia Uganda tangu 1959 na walikataliwa kurudi Rwanda na serikali ya wahutu Mpaka wakaamua kurudi kwa nguvu 1994,Rwanda ilikuwa under Hutu government since 1950s Mpaka 94 na watutsi walikuwa hawaruhusiwi kujiunga na jeshi pia na mengine mengi tu,so vipi unaweza kumnyanyasa mtu mwenye serikali na jeshi lote...are you serious kweli na ulichoandika or Kuna kitu sielewi

 

[Koba]

Ndio matatizo ya kudandia treni kwa mbele, hivi unajua mjadala wangu na mwenzio ni nini? Tunaongelea planning of genocide. Ndio maana unakwepa kusema kwa nini hiyo life sentence imekuwa reduced. Bagosora kufungwa kwa genocide haimaanishi yeye ndio genocidaire, hiyo ni terminology ya jumla ya shitaka. Narudia tena rudi ukaanze mwanzo wa mjadala wetu na mwenzio. Prove kama genocide ilikuwa planned.

"To have an idea of the basis on which Bagosora is finally convicted, one has to read and understand the following sentence: "While the Trial Chamber could not have relied upon the finding that Bagosora must have ordered or authorised the crimes to find that he bore superior responsibility for failing to fulfil his duty to prevent them, Bagosora’s convictions may be upheld if the Trial Chamber’s factual findings support the conclusion that Bagosora failed to take the necessary and reasonable measures to prevent these crimes." The Appeals Chamber found that they do – and only that."

source:ICTR: Rwandan genocide - no master plan (long version) | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

Acha kutupotezea muda ----- wewe,and it doesnt matter long sentences or life,vifungo vyao wote ni genocide related na Kuna bounty za 5m$ kwa waliobaki,debating na wewe is useless sijui hata kwa nini ulileta hii topic...you must be Hutu extremist and racist bastard.

 

[murutongore]

Acha kutupotezea muda ----- wewe,and it doesnt matter long sentences or life,vifungo vyao wote ni genocide related na Kuna bounty za 5m$ kwa waliobaki,debating na wewe is useless sijui hata kwa nini ulileta hii topic...you must be Hutu extremist and racist bastard.

Anapotezea lakini ameshikwa pabaya. Amebaki peke yake coz watu wote wameshamshitukia kuw ana agenda zake binafsi. Hatred against rwanda is at your own peril boooy!!!

 

[August]

historically watutsi walikuwa manyapara na wahutu watwana , licha ya uchache wao. watutsi walikuwa wanawaona wahutu kama wanyama vile, hawafai kukaa meza moja na bosi, wahutu walipo pata nafasi nao wakalipiza kutokana na uwingi wao, hivyo watutsi wakaenda ukimbizini toka hiyo 1959 , ni kweli watutsi walipata shida ukimbizini hasa ug, nurse waki tutsi aliishia kuwa mtumishi wa nyumbani nk, wanaume waliishia kuwa wachunga ngombe, ndipo m7 alivyokuwa akipigana, alichukua watutsi wengi ndio chanzo cha wao kuingia jeshini na kuweza kupanga kucukua vifaa vya updf kupeleka war front, na wakati huo mazungumzo ya amani yalikuwa yameisha anza arusha chini ya Mwl Nyerere, na moja ya maazimio au jambo lilotaka kuwekwa kwenye katiba ni kuwapa wa tutsi baadhi ya wizara, kwani kwa uchache wao wasingeweza kupata kitu.
ni bongo tu watutsi walikuwa treated as human beings mpaka tukaanza kuwaita wageni wakazi badala ya wakimbizi

 

[Madela Wa- Madilu]

Umenifurahisha hapo tu MuTanzania.

Hiyo nikawaida lakini, mimi naona ungeanza hivi JMALIA MnyaRwanda Mhutu babake kaua watu harafu akapigwa akakimbia nchi sasa anaweweseka kwenye mitandao ya jamii akijifanya raia wa nchi nyingine,just talk and talk umeshindwa na hiyo ideology yako haiwezi kukufikisha popote, by the way hao wa Tutsi unaowachukia hata Tanzania wapo, fika Tabora utaambiwa.
Other wise hata Obama babake ni Mkenya, harafu historia ya nchi ya Rwanda ndio sababu.
Your interest with Rwanda inaonesha wewe sio mu Tanzania.(Mtanzania)
Tulia ndugu.
Hao uliowaongelea hawakupenda kuzaliwa kwenye hizo nchi, it was bad history created from ethnic ideologies kama hizo zako.
I wish ungekua karibu yangu, nikuzabe kibao.

 

[Madela Wa- Madilu]

Historia huwa inajirudia.

Tulidai UHURU 1961 naona 2061 tutadai tena UHURU si unaona jinsi tunavyowalamba miguu MAGHAIBHU??

Kabla mzungu hajaja Mtawala alikuwa Mtutsi, mhutu akaja juu na kumwondoa mtutsi. Kisha Mtutsi naye akafurukuta kweli. Na Sasa hivi ni zamu ya Watutsi ya wahutu imekwisha, kale kamzizi ka fitina kama bado hakajang'olewa sioni ni kwa nini wahutu wasirudi tena kama ni kweli Historia huwa inajirudia.

 

[Bongolander]

Wakuu nadhani hili suala kwa sasa lina-pick. Nimeona kwenye thread hii, kuna kitu kama subjectivity kwenye kujadili. Hubu tuangalie huyu aliayeandika article hii chini. Jina lake kidogo ni geni, sasa sijui kama naye ni genocider au ni mhutu interhamwe. Naona somehow anaeleza kitu ambacho si kigeni kwa wengi wanaochanga kwenye uzi huu, lakini kuna kitu anaeleza. Labda kwa ufupi tu naona anasema...... Interhamwe=Ufaransa, au wahutu=wafaransa.

[h=1]Ex-Rwandan spy chief killing alights allegations[/h]http://news.yahoo.com/ex-rwandan-spy-chief-killing-alights-allegations-141224881.html;_ylt=AqNbtETLtRrE7KUfP0d2Cu7QtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBsZmpob2F1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwM3BHNlYwNzcg--
CC: Murutongore, jmali, ruzibiza, ngongo, koba, stroke, mtoto wa wakuu, rushasha, august, gulit, zacha, ferds, tabalo, bubu msemaovyo

 

[Commanche]

85% hutus inaongozwa na Tutsi huu ni uchizi usio kifani.

Kiongozi kwa hesabu zako basi hata Obama au mweusi yeyote asingeshika u-Rais wa Marekani manake wao ni asilimia 17% ya wa-Marekani wote. Acha ubaguzi mkuu. U-Hutu na u-tutsi ni superficial.

 

[jMali]

Kiongozi kwa hesabu zako basi hata Obama au mweusi yeyote asingeshika u-Rais wa Marekani manake wao ni asilimia 17% ya wa-Marekani wote. Acha ubaguzi mkuu. U-Hutu na u-tutsi ni superficial.

Obama amechaguliwa democratically, hakupindua nchi kama Kagame na RPF! I doubt it kama Obama angekuwa kiongozi wa jeshi la watu weusi (minorities) aliyeshambulia nchi huru ya marekani kwa miaka minne yenye majority wazungu, akapindua nchi na kuweka serikali nyeusi, bado ungesema hayo.

 

[murutongore]

Obama amechaguliwa democratically, hakupindua nchi kama Kagame na RPF! I doubt it kama Obama angekuwa kiongozi wa jeshi la watu weusi (minorities) aliyeshambulia nchi huru ya marekani kwa miaka minne yenye majority wazungu, akapindua nchi na kuweka serikali nyeusi, bado ungesema hayo.

Wewe f.a.l.a kweli. Hivi mwaka 2010 rwanda tulikuwa tunafanya nini? Raisi wetu amechaguliwa democratically na all rwandans are enjoying the fruits of his leadership. unlike you looser. nilikuambia utapiga makelele mpaka utachoka sisi tunachanja mbuga. hata hao fdlr mnaowaalika na kuwapa red carpet wanapoteza muda wao tu.

 

[jMali]

Wewe f.a.l.a kweli. Hivi mwaka 2010 rwanda tulikuwa tunafanya nini? Raisi wetu amechaguliwa democratically na all rwandans are enjoying the fruits of his leadership. unlike you looser. nilikuambia utapiga makelele mpaka utachoka sisi tunachanja mbuga. hata hao fdlr mnaowaalika na kuwapa red carpet wanapoteza muda wao tu.

wewe b.w.ege Kagame kaja Rwanda 2010? btw, even then he had to shoot dead journalists, behead opposition candidates, jail others.....na kushinda kwa 90%! an impossible feat to any rational mind.

 

[MUSONI]

Kaja 2010.....kuweni na mawazo angavu sio mgando...maendeleo yanayotoka hakuna kwenye region wapi hakuna mauaji na hakuna lisemwalo...kutukana sio hoja.

 

[jMali]

Kaja 2010.....kuweni na mawazo angavu sio mgando...maendeleo yanayotoka hakuna kwenye region wapi hakuna mauaji na hakuna lisemwalo...kutukana sio hoja.

Kama kutukana sio hoja mbona humwambii huyo aliyenitukana kwanza? ...Nimeangalia moja ya post yako, kwa jinsi unavyo-spell maneno nikaelewa kwa nini unanishambulia mimi!

Unajadiri kifo cha mtu Kagame iki iweje utaondoka kabla yake...na hutarudi kuendeleza mauaji ya kimbali.
Ajali kwenye misafara ni kitu cha kawaida. Tumrudie Mungu.