Mwalimu Nyerere na ukabila

[FaizaFoxy]

Sidhani kwamba kulikuwa na suala la kuvictimize mtu au kikundi cha watu katika hili, Je kama nchi tulikuwa na resources za kutosha kuwafikia wale waliokuwa wamesahauliwa na mkoloni kwa haraka kiasi gani. Tukumbuke kwamba shule hizi tunazozitaja zimejengwa na wakoloni hata kama tutawaita wamishenari, lengo alo kubwa lilikuwa ni moja tu, kutafuta mbinu bora ya kututawala na kwa msaada wa sisi wenyewe weusi.

Kwahiyo walianzisha shule maeneo kadhaa waliyotaka kwa malengo yao, sasa baada ya kupata uhuru ilikuwa ni lazima kuondoa ule ubaguzi uliokuwepo enzi ya mkoloni, uwe ni ubaguzi wa kwenye elimu, afya na hata ubaguzi wa misingi ya dini. Kwa mantiki hiyo ilibidi serikali itaifishe huduma hizo na kuziweka chini yake ili watu wote pasipo kujali kabila lake ama dini yake waweze kusaidika na kunufaika na huduma hizo.

Nyerere hakuondoa ubaguzi aliuzidisha mpaka ikafikia mashirika ya umma ukiwa wa kabila fulani shirika hili hupati kazi mpaka uwe wa kabila linalokubalika hapo, au hujui hilo? Jeshini, polisi na uwt aliwajaza watu wa kwao ili wamlinde. Uko wapi weyeee?

 

[FaizaFoxy]

So Muslims were better of during colonial era than after independence? Major religion in what sense-population,political influence, better living conditions?

Of course, all aspects.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

After ten years in office, Nyerere admitted failure. Inequality among its cities, a life of poverty "is the experience of the majority of our citizens," he said. The country was experiencing shortages of cooking oil and gasoline. Hotels in his capital, Dar es Salaam, were falling into disrepair. There had been a movement of people to the big city and in the capital street gangs were coming into existence. Nyerere deplored his country's continued dependence on foreign assistance and its deficit financing. It was Nyerere's socialism that had failed. The nation suffered from a bloated government bureaucracy. Farmers had resisted government policies and the government-created communal villages and farming. In 1983, Nyerere gave up on his socialist dream and declared that the government would again permit private enterprise in farming, including companies investing in private commercial farms. Nyerere agreed to cut government subsidies and to cut state run organizations. Faced with famines and mass starvations, Nyerere resigned in 1985, after twenty-four years as his nation's president. And the new regime that took office began dismantling government controls over the economy.

Source: http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch34-tan.htm
​

 

[FaizaFoxy]

wewe ni mwongo mkubwa, kwanza toka lini mtu akalazimishwa kupendwa na watu wakampenda? haina mantiki kabisa, ila walikuwepo wasiompenda kwa sababu zao binafsi au kwa kutofautiana mitazamo na walikuwa wachache na uache uongo wako kusema walikuwa wengi, nadhani ulishuhudia kipindi cha kung'atuka kwake jinsi watu wengi walivyomuaga kwa zawadi mbalimbali, je walilazimishwa? na vipi alipofariki uliona umati wa watu waliojawa na majonzi? taifa lilizizima, je walilazimishwa? acha hizo ndugu yangu hicho ni kisokolokwinyo chako tu! halafu una uhakika hao waliotaka kumpindua ndo waliokuwa wanapendwa na wengi au ni tamaa zao za madaraka!?

Si unampemda kiunafik! ukimpinga anakuyeyusha. Ulikuwepo wakati wake au unausikia tu wewe?

 

[VoiceOfReason]

After ten years in office, Nyerere admitted failure. Inequality among its cities, a life of poverty "is the experience of the majority of our citizens," he said. The country was experiencing shortages of cooking oil and gasoline. Hotels in his capital, Dar es Salaam,

And after 50 years since independence I say Nyerere was a better leader than the other mediocrities we have been experiencing, at least during his time our country was not sold or on the hands of the few. The speed which our minerals are dissapearing leaving craters is beyond imagination and worse we have got nothing to show for it.

 

[Jasusi]

After ten years in office, Nyerere admitted failure. Inequality among its cities, a life of poverty "is the experience of the majority of our citizens," he said. The country was experiencing shortages of cooking oil and gasoline. Hotels in his capital, Dar es Salaam, were falling into disrepair. There had been a movement of people to the big city and in the capital street gangs were coming into existence. Nyerere deplored his country's continued dependence on foreign assistance and its deficit financing. It was Nyerere's socialism that had failed. The nation suffered from a bloated government bureaucracy. Farmers had resisted government policies and the government-created communal villages and farming. In 1983, Nyerere gave up on his socialist dream and declared that the government would again permit private enterprise in farming, including companies investing in private commercial farms. Nyerere agreed to cut government subsidies and to cut state run organizations. Faced with famines and mass starvations, Nyerere resigned in 1985, after twenty-four years as his nation's president. And the new regime that took office began dismantling government controls over the economy.

Source: Socialist Experiment in Tanzania: 1961-85
​

Mbona hukuweka na hii hapa:
He made Swahili the national language. Literacy in Tanzania increased from 20 percent in 1961 to 90 percent by 1983. With good rural health services, life expectancy (at birth) in this period rose from 35 years to 52. But food production was not keeping up with population growth. In 1976, Nyerere abolished his country's 2,500 independent farming cooperatives, in part because they were politically uncontrollable. The organization that he put in their place ran deficits and soaked up most of Tanzania's investment capital.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Na wewe umefunguliwa lini? Nitakata rufaa kwa mods urejeshwe lupango!

Utakufa nacho kijiba cha roho! ntuwe mwana mwenzio, sasa nkisha fungiwa na mie nimelilazimisha gozi langu liniwekee laptop, ataitumia nani babuwee, na mi mama wa nyumbani jamani? mbona mna visa nyie? Hivi gozi linaona raha maana sikuhizi hata harusini wala hitimani hawanioni, mie bz na JF. lol.

 

[Mag3]

Habari zenu jamani?!

Naomba nianze kwa kusema ukweli kwamba mimi sikuwepo kipindi cha utawala wa Mwl na hata alipofariki nilikua mdogo sana hivyo sikuwahi kujua kwanini watu wengi walikua wanampenda sana huku bado kukiwa na mambo mengi hasi yanayosemwa juu yake.Nafurahi kwamba mwaka huu nimeweza kutumia muda wangu kiasi nikasoma vitabu kadhaa kumhusu...makusanyo ya hotuba zake pamoja na vitabu alivyoandika mwenyewe.Kutokana na niliyoyasoma niliridhika kwamba sifa zote anastahili...pia kukosolewa maana yeye kama mtu mwingine yeyote yule makosa hatuwezi tuyakwepa.

Katika vitu ambavyo Mwl alivisimamia haswa ni usawa.Hakutaka kabila moja lijione/jisikie liko juu ya jingine na kutengeneza matabaka.Sasa swali langu nnaloomba mnisaidie ni hili....ule msemo au sijui niyaite madai ya kwamba Mwl aliwahi kusema makabila fulani hayafai kupewa uongozi wa juu wa nchi ni wa kweli au ni propaganda za waliomchukia?!Nauliza hivi kwasababu niliyoyasoma juu yake hayaendani kabisa na madai haya...na wala haileti maana kusikia kwamba aliyepigania usawa ndie aliyekua wa kwanza kutengeneza matabaka lilipokuja swala la uongozi!!!

Naomba majibu kama yapo yawe na vielelezo na yasiwe maneno ya kusikika na kufikirika tu ili tusiojua tujifunze kitu.
Asanteni!

Lizzy, mimi nitakuuliza kitu, je hukuwapo wakati wa maombolezo yake toka mwili wake unaletwa nchini kutoka Uingereza, kuagwa pale uwanja wa taifa hadi mazishi yake Butiama ? Kwa wote waliokuwapo wakati huo sidhani kama kuna mwenye shaka kuwa Mwalimu alipendwa. Katika wakati huo huzuni kubwa ulitanda nchini na hata vibaka walichukua likizo ili waweze kuomboleza. Ni kwamba watu ni wepesi tu wa kusahau na wengi wanamsema vibaya kwa wakati huu, ukweli ni kuwa hawakumfahamu Mwalimu na hawakuelewa uongozi wake. Watu hawakusombwa kuhudhuria mikutano yake wala waandishi hawakupewa bahasha waende kumsikiliza na kumwuliza maswali, wengi walijisikia nyumbani wakiwa naye. Alipohutubia alivutia na watu hawakuchoka kumsikiliza na hawakuwa na haraka ya kuondoka - huo ndio uongozi na kiongozi wa namna hiyo hana muda wa kuwabagua watu wake kwa misingi ya ukabila, dini, jinsia wala rangi - hayo ni majungu tu, period.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Unajua hapa tusim-crucify Mwalimu sababu ya policy zake..., Socialism does not work sio hapa tu popote pale kwahiyo kwa kufuata policy zake za ujamaa alitaka kila kitu kiwe state owned na distributed equally to the masses.., kwahiyo if at all unaweza kusema njia aliyopitia labda haikuwa nzuri.

Hata dereva mzuri kwa bahati mbaya akipita njia mbaya safari huenda ikawa ngumu lakini hatutalaumu udereva wake bali ubaya wa njia..., therefore maswali yanakuja...
Je Nyerere alikuwa Mzalendo.... Ndio
Je alikuwa Mkabila..... Hapana
Je policies zake zilifanikiwa..... Hapana
Je alikuwa ana good intentions....... Ndio
Was he a good leader.... absolutely

Aaah babu wee, huo uzalendo ndio nini haswa? maana hata hilo neno uzalendo ni "debatable", kwa muono wangu hana uzalendo, mzalendo utauwa wananchi wako? basi miaka zaidi ya ishirini ufanye maamuzi ya makosa wee mtu mmoja tuu halafu uitwe mzalendo? khaaa, huko hunipeleki. Mzalendo ni moja kati ya "vocabulary" za kiujamaa na kama ujamaa ume "fail" basi na neno uzalendo lime fail, halitakiwi liwepo kwenye msamiati, nini maana ya uzalendo? kama litatumika sasa basi litakuwa limehama kutoka msamiati wa ujamaa kuja kwenye msamiati wa kibaguzi. Unaweza kufafanua maana ya uzalendo?

Mkabila hapana? kwani huu mjadala kuanzia mwanzo si unajadili ukabila wa nyerere, uko wapi weyeee? au ndio katika wale mnaodandia kwa mbele?

Policy zake hazikufanikiwa, nafurahi umekiri hilo, sasa kuna nini zaidi? ata repeat? Ilitakiwa uachie hapo hapo ku "argue".

Good intentions does not justify repeatedly bad decisions.

Good leader? my behind! He was a good dictator not even a poor leader let alone him being a good one.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Nadhani hapa tungekuwa tunaongelea utanashati na mavazi nadhani labda angeshindwa..., lakini sidhani kama uongozi bora unaangalia una suruali ngapi au well dressed you are..., In short naona bora huyu aliyeazima suruali kuliko yule kile akienda kuonana na viongozi anavaa armani suit worth millions just to look great. By the way Colgate sio anasa lakini ile dawa ya meno iliyokuwa ikitengenezwa nchini was better kwa uchumi wetu kuliko Colgate, iliyokuwa inakuja kwa magendo

Tunaongelea qualities za mtu. Leo mtu ikiwa hauna qualitative distinctions how can you make quality decisions? Its not about fashion.

Samahani kwa kuchanganya lugha, si unajuwa sie tulisoma kabla nyerere hajazifanya shule kuwa za kiujamaa, kwa hiyo tunakuwa wepesi zaidi kuandika kiingereza.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

And after 50 years since independence I say Nyerere was a better leader than the other mediocrities we have been experiencing, at least during his time our country was not sold or on the hands of the few. The speed which our minerals are dissapearing leaving craters is beyond imagination and worse we have got nothing to show for it.

Better leader? my behind! He was a better dictator not even a poor leader let alone him being a good one.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Mbona hukuweka na hii hapa:
He made Swahili the national language. Literacy in Tanzania increased from 20 percent in 1961 to 90 percent by 1983. With good rural health services, life expectancy (at birth) in this period rose from 35 years to 52. But food production was not keeping up with population growth. In 1976, Nyerere abolished his country's 2,500 independent farming cooperatives, in part because they were politically uncontrollable. The organization that he put in their place ran deficits and soaked up most of Tanzania's investment capital.

Swahili has been a written language for quite some time. Written poetry goes back to the middle of the seventeenth century. The written Swahili poetry was inspired by Islamic literature brought to the eastern coast of African in Arabic, Persian and Urdu by Eastern traders. Arabic script was used up to the middle of the nineteenth century, but thereafter Roman script became more common, which is standard practise nowadays.
In 1749 Sayyid Aidarusi undertook a commission to write a court poem, "Hamziya", which is most probably the oldest manuscript in Swahili. It is written in Arabic script in the old Kingozi dialect of Swahili.
Swahili is spoken by at least 40 million people in eastern Africa nowadays and therefore became the lingua franca of the region. It was the vernacular of the eastern coast of Africa and the southern parts of Somalia up to the northern past of Msumbiji (Mozambique) before 1960. Add to this the islands of the Lamu archipelago at the Kenyan coast, Pemba, Zanzibar, Mafia and Kilwa (at the coast of Tanzania) and the Comoro Islands.

Source: African literature III: Oral and written traditions - MyFundi

 

[Jasusi]

Tunaongelea qualities za mtu. Leo mtu ikiwa hauna qualitative distinctions how can you make quality decisions? Its not about fashion.

Samahani kwa kuchanganya lugha, si unajuwa sie tulisoma kabla nyerere hajazifanya shule kuwa za kiujamaa, kwa hiyo tunakuwa wepesi zaidi kuandika kiingereza.

Nyerere was qualitatively distinct. He had class. I saw him in New York in the company of the likes of Indira Gandhi, Perez De Cuellar and Pierre Trudeau, and I saw him in his village in Butiama chatting with the regular fellow at the village level. He never lost touch.

 

[Waberoya]

Lizzy, mimi nitakuuliza kitu, je hukuwapo wakati wa maombolezo yake toka mwili wake unaletwa nchini kutoka Uingereza, kuagwa pale uwanja wa taifa hadi mazishi yake Butiama ? Kwa wote waliokuwapo wakati huo sidhani kama kuna mwenye shaka kuwa Mwalimu alipendwa. Katika wakati huo huzuni kubwa ulitanda nchini na hata vibaka walichukua likizo ili waweze kuomboleza. Ni kwamba watu ni wepesi tu wa kusahau na wengi wanamsema vibaya kwa wakati huu, ukweli ni kuwa hawakumfahamu Mwalimu na hawakuelewa uongozi wake. Watu hawakusombwa kuhudhuria mikutano yake wala waandishi hawakupewa bahasha waende kumsikiliza na kumwuliza maswali, wengi walijisikia nyumbani wakiwa naye. Alipohutubia alivutia na watu hawakuchoka kumsikiliza na hawakuwa na haraka ya kuondoka - huo ndio uongozi na kiongozi wa namna hiyo hana muda wa kuwabagua watu wake kwa misingi ya ukabila, dini, jinsia wala rangi - hayo ni majungu tu, period.

Mag3, Jasusi

You need to be crazy to defend Nyerere!

Nyerere anaweza tu kuwa defended when you compare him with other leaders who came after him.

Nyerere terribly failed, but he has vision at least where he faled could easily be repaired by other presidents..it was not so.

Sasa kuja na hizi saikolojikaly explainable eti watu walilia sana.Mkuu watu wameishaandika paper kuhusu hili swala, find some! kuna sababu za kisaikolojia, kuna sababu za kidini na umaskini!

Umesema Nyerere alikuwa anaongea sana that was true, kweli alikuwa muongeaji, mwongo, na ameharibu nchi kila mtu siku hizi anaongea sana

Let me ask you, Sokoine alikuwa mwongeaji sana? nani unafikiri alikuwa radical wa kutekeleza ujamaa kwa vitendo? caliber yake ya kuongea sana siyo kipimo cha kiongozi bora

Nyerere alikuwa dictator
Mbishi. haambiliki
Nyerere alijifanya anajua kila kitu
Nyerere mehairibu nchi beyond repair

Nyerere ndiye aliyeweka katiba ya kifalme na kitwana

Nyerere ndiye aliyeshauri na ku-force vyama vingi vianze BILA KUFORCE MABADILIKO YA KATIBA
BILA KUFORCE TUME YA UCHAGUZI IWE HURU

Cunning!



Nyerere huyu ndiye aliyesema fikra zake zidumu
Nyerere huyu ndiye aliyepigsha watu kura za ndiyo na hapana


Nyerere mnayempenda amekuwa kama dini.....amekuwa mtume wenu, but if we face reality if we can measure btn performance and achievements Nyerer has actually achieved 2% of what he was supposed to achieve..

Tuache unafiki jamani, if we are living with excuse we can miss one for Mwinyi, Mkapa, Kikwete etc!!

No excuse for failure

Nyerere was clever and educated he knew fo sure that socialism need dictatorship to implement. He had good examples from china, cuba, korea, russia etc! but he introduced same system here , WAS HE A DICTATOR? If YES then that was bad for him....IF NO then why he introduced system that he could not manage??

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Mzalendo ni moja kati ya "vocabulary" za kiujamaa na kama ujamaa ume "fail" basi na neno uzalendo lime fail, halitikiwi liwepo kwenye msamiati, nini maana ya uzalendo? kama litatumika sasa basi litakuwa limehama kutoka msamiati wa ujamaa kuja kwenye msamiati wa kibaguzi. Unaweza kufafanua maana ya uzalendo?

Mkabila hapana? kwani huu mjadala kuanzia mwanzo si unajadili ukabila wa nyerere, uko wapi weyeee? au ndio katika wale mnaodandia kwa mbele?

Policy zake hazikufanikiwa, nafurahi umekiri hilo, sasa kuna nini zaidi? ata repeat? Ilitakiwa uachie hapo hapo ku "argue".

Good intentions does not justify repeatedly bad decisions.

Good leader? my behind! He was a good dictator not even a poor leader let alone him being a good one.

Uzalendo (Patriotism); devotion and love for ones country.., haya niambie kwa matendo ya Nyerere ni kipi kilikuonyesha kwamba hapendi nchi yake

Nyerere did not invent Ujamaa, hizo ni policy ambazo hazikufanikiwa pote even China wanaojifanya wana-ujamaa all I can see from them ni mchanganyiko wa ujamaa na ubepari kwahiyo sio makosa ya Nyerere if Ujamaa is hard to implement.

What do you mean repeated bad decisions hawa viongozi wa sasa wangekaa madarakani kipindi alichokaa Nyerere hii nchi na ardhi ingashauzwa na tungebaki kuwa wapangaji....( bora yeye alisema madini tuyakalie tu sababu hayaozi mpaka pale tutakapopata akili nzuri)

Dictator yes sometimes a leader needs to be ili aweze kuwapeleka watu, ukiwabembeleza watu sometimes kazi haziendi

Tunaongelea qualities za mtu. Leo mtu ikiwa hauna qualitative distinctions how can you make quality decisions? Its not about fashion.

Now tell me how is the choice of quality makes you make bad or good decisions, in politics..???, unless you are running a fashion show, I think it does not matter.

Does Nyerere wearing shorts better or worse than Nyerere in trousers???, Clothes Dont Make a Pirate...., what matters is what is between your ears, and who cares whose pants they belonged to even if its a true story although I very much doubt..

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Nyerere was qualitatively distinct. He had class. I saw him in New York in the company of the likes of Indira Gandhi, Perez De Cuellar and Pierre Trudeau, and I saw him in his village in Butiama chatting with the regular fellow at the village level. He never lost touch.

You see, you are missing the point. Its not what you are saying, its not "qualitative distinct" I am talking about qualitative distinctions. Those are totally different things. My goodness.

You are talking about him being socially distinct of which indeed he was, remember he was a sort of a socialist, so the answer is yes, he can socialize but he had no qualitative distinctions.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Better leader? my behind! He was a better dictator not even a poor leader let alone him being a good one.

In Africa name me 5 better leaders than Nyerere..

 

[Masuke]

Mag3, Jasusi

You need to be crazy to defend Nyerere!

Nyerere anaweza tu kuwa defended when you compare him with other leaders who came after him.

Nyerere terribly failed, but he has vision at least where he faled could easily be repaired by other presidents..it was not so.

Sasa kuja na hizi saikolojikaly explainable eti watu walilia sana.Mkuu watu wameishaandika paper kuhusu hili swala, find some! kuna sababu za kisaikolojia, kuna sababu za kidini na umaskini!

Umesema Nyerere alikuwa anaongea sana that was true, kweli alikuwa muongeaji, mwongo, na ameharibu nchi kila mtu siku hizi anaongea sana

Let me ask you, Sokoine alikuwa mwongeaji sana? nani unafikiri alikuwa radical wa kutekeleza ujamaa kwa vitendo? caliber yake ya kuongea sana siyo kipimo cha kiongozi bora

Nyerere alikuwa dictator
Mbishi. haambiliki
Nyerere alijifanya anajua kila kitu
Nyerere mehairibu nchi beyond repair

Nyerere ndiye aliyeweka katiba ya kifalme na kitwana

Nyerere ndiye aliyeshauri na ku-force vyama vingi vianze BILA KUFORCE MABADILIKO YA KATIBA
BILA KUFORCE TUME YA UCHAGUZI

Nyerere huyu ndiye aliyesema fikra zake zidumu
Nyerere huyu ndiye aliyepigsha watu kura za ndiyo na hapana


Nyerere mnayempenda amekuwa kama dini.....amekuwa mtume wenu, but if we face reality if we can measure btn performance and achievements Nyerer has actually achieved 2% of what he was supposed to achieve..

Tuache unafiki jamani, if we are living with excuse we can miss one for Mwinyi, Mkapa, Kikwete etc!!

No excuse for failure

Nyerere was clever and educated he knew fo sure that socialism need dictatorship to implement. He had good examples from china, cuba, korea, russia etc! but he introduced same system here , WAS HE A DICTATOR? If YES then that was bad for him....IF NO then why he introduced system that he could not manage??

Mkuu Engineer umekuja kwa kasi mno, kuna haja kweli ya kuwa mwendawazimu kumtetea Nyerere na kueleza mazuri aliyoyafanya?

 

[Geza Ulole]

Atleast aliwapa watu kazi wanayoweza kuifanya kuliko wengine wanaowapa watu kazi sababu wasiyoiweza...., bali kuwatafutia ulaji

babu kigezo gani ulitumia hapo unaposema aliowapa wanaweza kuifanya unatumia reference ipi na je askari hao ndio hao tunao leo au wamebadilika?

 

[FaizaFoxy]

In Africa name me 5 better leaders than Nyerere..

Did you mean better dictators? as I said Nyerere was not a leader so how can I judge him with leaders?