Mwalimu Nyerere na ukabila

[Kimbunga]

MKuu hiyo red hata kama ni kweli ulitakiwa utumie mins nyingine ya kufikisha ujumbe, so mkuu naomba ututake radhi :msela:

Najiomba radhi

 

[Kimbunga]

Soma mstari wa kwanza wa mada tajwa na tazama post niliyoijibu mimi, nilijibu kuhusiana na kupendwa kwa nyerere ambako mtowa mada ame "depict", mimi nikasema hajapendwa na wengi, wewe ukajibu ulichojibu, mimi nikakupa hesabu ndogo ya makundi ambayo hayana sababu ya kumpenda nyerere na hili unaloandika hapo juu linaongezea katika hayo makundi. My point is, nyerere hakupendwa na wengi kama mtoa mada anavyofikiria. Mengine nilimwambia atajaza mwenyewe.

Zomba Nyerere alikuwa akipendwa na watu wengi. Nadhani ulishuhudia mazishi yake. Kama hakupendwa na hao unaowasema basoi hao ni wachache tu. Hata kama ni waislamu sio wengi ni wachache kaka. huwezi kusema kwa kuwa aliwafunga baadhi ya mashehe na kumchapa viboko Alhaji Fundikira basi akina Rashidi Kawawa, Salim Ahmed Salim n.k hawakumpenda.

 

[Jasusi]

Mie naweza kukuhakikishia Mwl Nyerere haku-meet expectations kama alizotarajia! sababu kuu ni kwamba kabla ya uhuru hakuwa na ideologies kama za Ujamaa na self reliance hata chembe maana nina uhakika hata huo uhuru wenyewe usingepatikana kuna sehemu kubwa ya wananchi waliom-support wangempinga! Ni baada ya kuona mambo yanaenda Mrama kila kitu hakiendi na at climax mutiny attempt nathani 1964 ndipo akaenda uchina akarudi na all the ideas za Ujamaa+plus dress code na pia akavunja na jeshi loote...na wafanyabiashara wakawa publicly anounced a great threat to his government alichofanya tofauti ni kuita African socialism ambayo unfortunately was never experimented anywhere ila we were made to be guinea pigs! ili kuwa a bit neutral to the cold war foes!

Geza Ulole,
I beg to differ. Mwalimu alianza ku "toy" na wazo la ujamaa, au usawa wa binadamu alipokuwa Makerere.Ukisoma makala alizoanzika enzi hizo alikuwa anazungumzia hilo, usawa wa binadamu, na jamii ya kijamaa katika jumuiya ya Waafrika. Kisomo chake Uingereza, hasa pale alipochukua somo la falsafa, kikamwongezea hamasa ya ku 'explore" zaidi ujamaa au socialism. Ngoja nikuchekeshe. Katiba ya KANU, Kenya, ilikuwa inaitisha kujengwa kwa taifa la kijamaa. Katiba ya ANC, Afrika kusini, vivyo hivyo. Kwa hiyo utaona miongoni mwa viongozi ambao walipambana na udhalimu wa kikoloni fikra za kuja na filosofia mbadala ilikuwepo hata kabla ya enzi za uhuru. Mwalimu hakukurupuka tu kwenda China na ghafla akaja na itikadi ya ujamaa.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

So Muslims were better of during colonial era than after independence? Major religion in what sense-population,political influence, better living conditions?

No. That is not what I meant, nothing about being better-of before or after, it was a matter of lesser and greater evil.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Bibi Titi hakumpinga Mwalimu, bali alikuwamo ktk mpango wa kumpindua, na kumpindua Rais ni uhaini. Kitu kizuri ni kwamba hawakunyongwa, hata bibi titi alisamehewa baada ya kutumikia kifungo kwa muda.

Weye, weye, ndio weyee? unanini? Hivi utampindua usiye mpinga kweli? pumba zingine inabidi nkachekee msalani.

 

[Jasusi]

ina maana unataka kusema ikulu nzima haikuwa na Dish kuangalia newz kama BBC? siamini! alikuwa anapata wapi habari za nje?

Hapana. Haya mambo ya dish labda yalianza enzi za ruksa. Na ile tv/video aliyopewa na Mzee Bomani ilikuwa Msasani. Mwalimu spent his time there more than he did at Ikulu. Habari za nje mwalimu alipenda sana kusikiliza radio. Alipenda sana kusikiliza BBC to Africa. Pia radio Moscow mara kwa mara. Na kama kulikuwepo vipindi maalumu ubalozi wa Tanzania ulikuwa unamrekodia na kumwekea tapes kwenye dipbag.

 

[Kimbunga]

Hawa sitaki hata kumsikia Mwl Nyerere, alikuwa ana roho mbaya sana nimeuona utawala wake wa kidikiteta. Alimkamata Mzee wangu eti muhujumi uchumi duka lake likikuwa na dazeni kumi za kanga kutoka mwatex, na dola 500, miaka ya 80. Alikuwa mkabila pia alichaguwa waziri mkuu na, mkuu wa majeshi kutoka kwao mkoa wa MARA

Mkuu hiyo historia ya wapi? Nyerere hajawahi kuwa na Waziri Mkuu toka mkoa wa Mara. Mkuu wa majeshi kweli naye ni Binamu yake Ret. Gen. Musuguri. Aliyewahi kuwa Waziri Mkuu toka Mkoa wa Mara ni Mzee Joseph Sinde Waryoba chini ya utawala wa Mwinyi. Kawawa, Sokoine, Msuya, Salim Ahmed Salim hawakuwa wanatoka Mara!

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Kama alishindwa kufanya hivyo then hakuwa qualified ku-rule the country, kwanini basi, aliomba uhuru maana that means hakuweza ku-meet expectations alizoongelea katika kupigania uhuru.

Au kwanini asi-resign, he wasnt a hard worker basi kushindwa kujenga hata shule kuwezesha kila Mtanzania kusoma bali kutaifisha zilizopo maana nathani immediately baada ya kupata uhuru alitoa national deveolopment plan kama aliyotoa Kikwete hapo juzi! akisema anatarajia kufanya nini katika miaka kumi.

Halafu hata hizo alizotaifisha zikawa kama mashonde, nyang'a nyang'a baada ya muda si mrefu. Haa jamani tuliosoma zamani tulifaidi shule. Nna uhakika waliosoma kabla ya 1970 wataniunga mkono. Mtu ulikuwa unataka tu uende shule, hakuna kubanana, kila dawati lina draw, wino bure, kalamu bure, rangi bure, lab bure, michezo vifaaa kedekede, brass band hata wapiga brass harusini hawatuingii. Looo alivyokuja mzee wa uhasid! Kila kitu kikafa.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

In privatising mission schools so everyone of whichever faith could study, wasn't that got for islam.., and there is no leader in the world who does not protect himself especially in those times just after independence it was easy to be toppled down.., you had to be afraid of even your own shadow.., if you have forgetten Kambona, Uncle Tom and others nearly succeded in putting him down... therefore the guy had many negatives but lets give credit when its due..., and lets not magnify the negatives by making a mountain from a mole hill.

And what would that credit be for?

 

[Jasusi]

kuna kitu kinaitwa kinship ni sawa leo hii Mbowe awe Rais halafu jeshini ajaze Wameru, Waarusha na Wamasai halafu aseme hatushaabiani au si jamaa! still utaona kuna sort of nepotism maana hizi jamii ziko karibu zaidi kuanzia kimila hata tamaduni! nathani unapata gist ya nilichomaanisha! Mbona asijaze Wanzanzibari jeshini?

That is true only if it were true. Mwalimu alirithi jeshi la ukoloni. Huko ndugu zangu Wakurya walikuwa wameshajazana kwa sababu ya umahiri wao wa kupigana. Vivyo hivyo Wanyakyusa. Enzi za Mwalimu alijitahidi sana n kurecruit wachaga na makabila mengineyo ambayo hayakuwa traditional soldiers. Kwa mfano maafisa wa kikosi cha ndege, navy, intelligence, wote hawa hawakuwa Wakurya. Let us give Mwalimu his due. Alijitahidi kujenga Tanzania isiyo na matabaka ya kikabila.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Binadamu kwanza anatambaa kabla hajaweza kukimbia..., we had to start from somewhere, na mtu mmoja hawezi akafanya all the changes, especially the Ujamaa policy being flawed. Angalia sasa miaka 50 baada ya uhuru ni kipi tumekifanya?

Maybe its time tuanze kujiangalia na sisi wenyewe labda kuna something seriously wrong in our heads..., kama sisi tumeshindwa na tuna wasomi na kukusanya kodi nyingi na tunajipongeza, sidhani kama itakuwa bora kumsingizia Nyerere kwamba hakuna alichokifanya.

After all mwenyewe alisema kuna mengi mazuri na mabaya mengi tumeyafanya.., kwahiyo tuyaache mabaya na kuendeleza mazuri, lakini it seems we are going the opposite way.

Mazuri yepi? yataje basi, maana mie siyaoni, kumbuka, nilikuwepo sihadithiwi.

 

[Kimbunga]

ukisikia ugonjwa ndo huo
yaani tanzania ilikuwa juu kwa ict wakati computer na tv zilikuwa banned????????
so radio tanzania ndio ilitufanya tuwe juu sio???????/
kipindi cha mikingamo sio?????????

Kulikuwa na vipindi vya ngoma zetu na vipindi fulani hivi vya masomo ya shuleni mwalimu anafundisha redioni huku mnasikiliza; ilikuwa teleconference ya wakati huo!

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Forum hii si ya Gezaulole na Mwita Maranya,
Umetoka jela na kukuta mjadala unaendelea tukiwa tunazungumzia dhana ya ukabila enzi za utawala wa mwalimu Nyerere lakini naona wewe unaingiza hoja yako ya udini. Kama unataka tujadli hoja ya udini unaelewa utaratibu, ifungulie thread tutaichangia. Si ustaarabu hata kidogo (na uislamu unasisitiza hilo) kuja kuharibu thread ya mwenzako wakati unao uwezo na nafasi ya kujadili hoja yako pahali pengine panapohusika.

Hebu anzisha thread yako, na mimi nitakuja unionyeshe takwimu zinazothibitisha kwamba islam ni major religious ethnic.
Tafadhali kuwa mstaarabu na muungwana kama kweli wewe ni muislamu wa kweli!!

Naona hujaelewa nilicho kiandika, nimesema kama hoja ni makabila basi nyerere alikuwa akiogopa kila kundi kubwa, ama liwe la kikabila au la kidini, na UIslaam kwa kuwa ni kundi mojawapo kubwa kwa wakati huo, nyerere aliuogopa na hakuona haya kuukata mbawa zake. Na kama hapa panajadiliwa ukabila tu, mbona kuna vyama vya ushirika vinajadiliwa?

 

[FaizaFoxy]

pole sana...........

Ahsante, na wewe pia.

 

[NgumiJiwe]

mods please ziunganisheni hizi.kuna mijadala mingi humu kumuhusu Nyerere na kila siku ni hoja zile zile tu hakuna jipya

 

[FaizaFoxy]

wewe kweli una matatizo ya kuelewa
nimeainisha hapo faida za tv nyingi mpaka mashuleni zinatumika
kama zanzibar waliweza kuwa na tv miaka hiyo
we unafikiri tanganyika ingeshindikana vipi????
vipaumbele vingeathiri vipi hilo?
au kipaumbele cha kuchangisha watu pesa za mbio za mwenge we ndo unaona cha maana??????

mnamsifia nyerere hata sifa ambazo sio zake

eti alijenga reli ya kati,na wakoloni waliacha reli ipi?????

kusema tv ni anasa
na magari ni anasa
namatrekta ni anasa ni mawazo finyu mno
period

Tena si hivyo tu,

Kandambili anasa,
Jeans anasa,
Lux anasa,
Colgate anasa,
Blue Band anasa,

Dahh, yule jamaa kijiji alichotoka watu wana roho mbaya sana. Kwa kuwa yeye huko alikotoka hajavitumia utotoni akawa ana usongo na wote wanaotumia hivyo vitu. Kweli kabisa maana hata Dar alipokelewa bado anavaa kaptura, duhhh, kina Sykes wakamvua kaptura, wakamwambia hapa pwani kuheshimika lazima uvae suruali, ushike bakora, uvae na kofia ya mkono. Suruali yake ndefu ya kwanza ni ya kuazimwa na kina Sykes.

Hivi jamani hata colgate anasa?

 

[FaizaFoxy]

I bet u would kill to just achieve 1% of what Nyerere did!

Sijawahi kuona mwenye akili finyu akipewa "standing ovation" na bunge la SA!

Hivi nyerere alifanya kipi kizuri kwa nchi hii?

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Nashukuru kwa maoni yako mkuu,

Labda unisaidie jambo moja kwenye hoja yako, resources za kujenga mashule katika maeneo yote yaliyokuwa nyuma kielimu na kujemga hospitali katika maeneo yote yaliyokuwa nyuma katika huduma za afya zingepatikana wapi na kwa muda mfupi kiasi gani ili watanzania wote waweze kufaidika?

Wewe ulikuwepo wakati wa nyerere? au unabishana mradi ubishe tu? unanchekesha!

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Mazuri yepi? yataje basi, maana mie siyaoni, kumbuka, nilikuwepo sihadithiwi.

Unajua hapa tusim-crucify Mwalimu sababu ya policy zake..., Socialism does not work sio hapa tu popote pale kwahiyo kwa kufuata policy zake za ujamaa alitaka kila kitu kiwe state owned na distributed equally to the masses.., kwahiyo if at all unaweza kusema njia aliyopitia labda haikuwa nzuri.

Hata dereva mzuri kwa bahati mbaya akipita njia mbaya safari huenda ikawa ngumu lakini hatutalaumu udereva wake bali ubaya wa njia..., therefore maswali yanakuja...
Je Nyerere alikuwa Mzalendo.... Ndio
Je alikuwa Mkabila..... Hapana
Je policies zake zilifanikiwa..... Hapana
Je alikuwa ana good intentions....... Ndio
Was he a good leader.... absolutely

 

[VoiceOfReason]

duhhh, kina Sykes wakamvua kaptura, wakamwambia hapa pwani kuheshimika lazima uvae suruali, ushike bakora, uvae na kofia ya mkono. Suruali yake ndefu ya kwanza ni ya kuazimwa na kina Sykes.

Hivi jamani hata colgate anasa?

Nadhani hapa tungekuwa tunaongelea utanashati na mavazi nadhani labda angeshindwa..., lakini sidhani kama uongozi bora unaangalia una suruali ngapi au well dressed you are..., In short naona bora huyu aliyeazima suruali kuliko yule kile akienda kuonana na viongozi anavaa armani suit worth millions just to look great. By the way Colgate sio anasa lakini ile dawa ya meno iliyokuwa ikitengenezwa nchini was better kwa uchumi wetu kuliko Colgate, iliyokuwa inakuja kwa magendo