Mwalimu Nyerere na ukabila

[VoiceOfReason]

babu kigezo gani ulitumia hapo unaposema aliowapa wanaweza kuifanya unatumia reference ipi na je askari hao ndio hao tunao leo au wamebadilika?

Argument ilianzia kwamba Jeshi lilikuwa limejaa watu kutoka Mara.... kwa mtazamo wako who were better suited jeshini kwa ukakamavu wao kama sio watu wa huko,

 

[The Boss]

In Africa name me 5 better leaders than Nyerere..

nelson mandela
ketumile massire
kenneth kaunda
levvy mwanawassa
john kufour
koffi annan
jaramogi oginga
ally hassan mwinyi
salim a salim

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Did you mean better dictators? as I said Nyerere was not a leader so how can I judge him with leaders?

A leader is "a person who influences a group of people towards the achievement of a goal". Haya niambia kati ya maneno yote hapo juu ni kipi hakukifanya??, baada ya hapo ndio tutakuja kwenye bad or good alafu ukimaliza nitajia viongozi watano Africa ambao walikuwa bora kuliko yeye

 

[Geza Ulole]

nelson mandela
ketumile massire
kenneth kaunda
levvy mwanawassa
john kufour
koffi annan
jaramogi oginga
ally hassan mwinyi
salim a salim

babu hapa tutatofautiana nathani hapa ni worse than him

 

[VoiceOfReason]

nelson mandela
ketumile massire
kenneth kaunda
levvy mwanawassa
john kufour
koffi annan
jaramogi oginga
ally hassan mwinyi
salim a salim

Mkuu sasa naona umeamua kunichekesha..., tukiendelea hivi naona utataja hadi Captain wa Timu ya Cameroon walipoifunga Argentina, tuangalie na achievements za mtu, Honestly Apart from the likes of Mandela na Kwame of Ghana sidhani kama ni majina mengi unaweza kuyaweka and the same sentence na Nyerere..., These Guys were visionaries...., be it their vision did not prosper that does not make the bad.

 

[The Boss]

babu hapa tutatofautiana nathani hapa ni worse than him

naheshimu mawazo yako
but tazama mambo kwenye angle tofauti

mwinyi hakuwahi kupanga kuwa rais wa tanzania wala zanzibar
hakuwa na mtandao wala chochote kile

unaweza sema alikuwa an 'accidental president'

lakini aliweza mengi mno ambayo nyerere yalimshinda
na aliwapa wananchi bidhaa muhimu kuliko zote
uhuru wa kuongea na kukosoa hata serikali yao
na uhuru wa kufanya biashara bila usumbufu

 

[VoiceOfReason]

lakini aliweza mengi mno ambayo nyerere yalimshinda
na aliwapa wananchi bidhaa muhimu kuliko zote
uhuru wa kuongea na kukosoa hata serikali yao
na uhuru wa kufanya biashara bila usumbufu

Different times calls for different measures..., unataka kuniambia baada ya Uhuru Mwinyi angeweza kufanya hayo..., yaani unataka watu waamie kwenye vijiji vya ujamaa alafu unawapa uhuru wa kuongea au kukosoa?; au unataifisha mali alafu unawapa watu uhuru wa kufanya biashara bila usumbufu... alafu nikumbushe ile issue ya Loliondo ilikuwa ni kipindi cha nani..., uhuru wa biashara ?; wakati wengine walifaidika na kuuza dhahabu za nchi majority walipata vijisenti..

All in all naweza nikasema wakati wa Mwinyi ndio tulianza kutoka kwenye Ujamaa ambao ni mgumu ku-umpliment no matter kiongozi ni nani. Conclusively Nyerere Good Leader; Ujamaa Bad Policy

 

[Jasusi]

Mag3, Jasusi

You need to be crazy to defend Nyerere!

Nyerere anaweza tu kuwa defended when you compare him with other leaders who came after him.

Nyerere terribly failed, but he has vision at least where he faled could easily be repaired by other presidents..it was not so.

Sasa kuja na hizi saikolojikaly explainable eti watu walilia sana.Mkuu watu wameishaandika paper kuhusu hili swala, find some! kuna sababu za kisaikolojia, kuna sababu za kidini na umaskini!

Umesema Nyerere alikuwa anaongea sana that was true, kweli alikuwa muongeaji, mwongo, na ameharibu nchi kila mtu siku hizi anaongea sana

Let me ask you, Sokoine alikuwa mwongeaji sana? nani unafikiri alikuwa radical wa kutekeleza ujamaa kwa vitendo? caliber yake ya kuongea sana siyo kipimo cha kiongozi bora

Nyerere alikuwa dictator
Mbishi. haambiliki
Nyerere alijifanya anajua kila kitu
Nyerere mehairibu nchi beyond repair

Nyerere ndiye aliyeweka katiba ya kifalme na kitwana

Nyerere ndiye aliyeshauri na ku-force vyama vingi vianze BILA KUFORCE MABADILIKO YA KATIBA
BILA KUFORCE TUME YA UCHAGUZI IWE HURU

Cunning!



Nyerere huyu ndiye aliyesema fikra zake zidumu
Nyerere huyu ndiye aliyepigsha watu kura za ndiyo na hapana


Nyerere mnayempenda amekuwa kama dini.....amekuwa mtume wenu, but if we face reality if we can measure btn performance and achievements Nyerer has actually achieved 2% of what he was supposed to achieve..

Tuache unafiki jamani, if we are living with excuse we can miss one for Mwinyi, Mkapa, Kikwete etc!!

No excuse for failure

Nyerere was clever and educated he knew fo sure that socialism need dictatorship to implement. He had good examples from china, cuba, korea, russia etc! but he introduced same system here , WAS HE A DICTATOR? If YES then that was bad for him....IF NO then why he introduced system that he could not manage??

Bukuku,
I agree I am crazy. And I am proud of it. And Mag3 is my younger brother. Yes, I love Nyerere and I thank the Lord every day that he gave him to us Tanzanians. I am thankful I got to know him as a person and as my leader and my guide and if he was a failure, his was a unique failure.

 

[Jasusi]

Bukuku,
Kuongezea tu. Ni uwongo kusema kuwa Nyerere ndiye aliyesema "zidumu." That word or phrase was coined by the hypocritical Kinguge Ngombale Mwiru who once upon a time was on the left of Nyerere in policies and turned out to be more capitalist than Mwinyi and Mkapa combined when Nyerere left the stage. You can critisize Nyerere, but be truthful in your criticism.

 

[The Boss]

Different times calls for different measures..., unataka kuniambia baada ya Uhuru Mwinyi angeweza kufanya hayo..., yaani unataka watu waamie kwenye vijiji vya ujamaa alafu unawapa uhuru wa kuongea au kukosoa?; au unataifisha mali alafu unawapa watu uhuru wa kufanya biashara bila usumbufu... alafu nikumbushe ile issue ya Loliondo ilikuwa ni kipindi cha nani..., uhuru wa biashara ?; wakati wengine walifaidika na kuuza dhahabu za nchi majority walipata vijisenti..

All in all naweza nikasema wakati wa Mwinyi ndio tulianza kutoka kwenye Ujamaa ambao ni mgumu ku-umpliment no matter kiongozi ni nani. Conclusively Nyerere Good Leader; Ujamaa Bad Policy

unaonekana unaakili
wakati huo huo una ushabiki wa ajabu
hivi nani alie kwambia vijiji vya ujamaa vilikuwa lazima??????/
mwinyi asingeleta upuuzi huo,

 

[Zimmermann]

Tunaongelea qualities za mtu. Leo mtu ikiwa hauna qualitative distinctions how can you make quality decisions? Its not about fashion.

Samahani kwa kuchanganya lugha, si unajuwa sie tulisoma kabla nyerere hajazifanya shule kuwa za kiujamaa, kwa hiyo tunakuwa wepesi zaidi kuandika kiingereza.

tehe tehe tehe....!! nape naona kaongeza kidogo per diem kutoka buku mbili mpaka....au kuna watu wa "zamu yetu"wametuma watu wao mtandaoni!!! Ndiyo maana Mbayuwayu anamwita Nyerere mzee Nyerere tofauti na wengine wanavyoita baba wa Taifa!!
Hii thread inahusu ukabila ila naona yameingia mambo mengi tu!! Mimi nilikuwa hata sijijui wakati wa vita vya kagera !!Ila mzazi wangu ananiambia life ilikuwa nzuri sana kabla ya vita..! Kwa wafanyakazi mshahara ulikuwa unakutana na mshahara mwingine ila baada ya ya vita ndiyo hivyo tukafunga mkanda !!

 

[The Boss]

Mkuu sasa naona umeamua kunichekesha..., tukiendelea hivi naona utataja hadi Captain wa Timu ya Cameroon walipoifunga Argentina, tuangalie na achievements za mtu, Honestly Apart from the likes of Mandela na Kwame of Ghana sidhani kama ni majina mengi unaweza kuyaweka and the same sentence na Nyerere..., These Guys were visionaries...., be it their vision did not prosper that does not make the bad.

ukichunguza utaona najibu
kuhusu better leader na sio better president
tofautisha hapo

 

[Dume la Mende]

Sina haja ya kubishana kuhusu nyerere, lakini wewe mwenyewe jijibu kuhusu hayo makabila uliyoyataja, Jee, ndio hao hao? halafu ongeza waislaam ambao aliwafunga masheikh wao wakubwa woote, hakuna sheikh wa kiislaam aliyekuwa maarufu ambae hajaonja joto la chuki za nyerere. Ukisha waongeza hao na wafuasi wao, ongeza na watu kama Mwamwindi walikuwa wangapi? halafu ongeza wafuasi wakina Kambona, Kasela Bantu, Bibi Titi na walio kama hao, ukipata jibu. Utajaza mwenyewe.

Hakuna kipindi Tanzania ilikuwa kwenye furaha kama katika uongozi wa Mwinyi, akipita tuu njiani watu walikuwa wakishangilia Ruksa, Ruksa, Ruksa, umesha jiuliza kwanini?

Ni kuchuma dhambi tu, kuwaongelea marehemu kwa ubaya. Mwacheni mzee wa watu apumzike kwa amani.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

unaonekana unaakili
wakati huo huo una ushabiki wa ajabu
hivi nani alie kwambia vijiji vya ujamaa vilikuwa lazima??????/
mwinyi asingeleta upuuzi huo,

Okay... kumkubali nyerere inabidi tuziangalie policy za ujamaa kipindi kile; zilikuwa bado hazijafail, kwahiyo hakuna mtu kwa wakati ule ambae angeweza kujua kwambai ujamaa is doomed....., even Russia walidhani ujamaa ndio mambo yote...

"Haya basi unapewa nchi watu wametapakaa wanakaa mbalimbali, kichwani mwako una vision ya kuona kwamba hawa watu badala ya kuhangaika kutafuta maji wanaweza kuyapata karibu, pia wakiungana wakalima mashamba pamoja wanaweza kupata chakula na kuongeza mazao pia itakuwa rahisi kuwapatia elimu..., lakini wanakaa mbali mbali na hatuwezi kuwapelekea huduma huko pote walipo, lakini tukiwaweka wote karibu kuna uwezekano tukawapatie huduma zote hizo..."

Whats wrong with the thinking above??, it works very well on paper

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Uzalendo (Patriotism); devotion and love for ones country.., haya niambie kwa matendo ya Nyerere ni kipi kilikuonyesha kwamba hapendi nchi yake

Nyerere did not invent Ujamaa, hizo ni policy ambazo hazikufanikiwa pote even China wanaojifanya wana-ujamaa all I can see from them ni mchanganyiko wa ujamaa na ubepari kwahiyo sio makosa ya Nyerere if Ujamaa is hard to implement.

What do you mean repeated bad decisions hawa viongozi wa sasa wangekaa madarakani kipindi alichokaa Nyerere hii nchi na ardhi ingashauzwa na tungebaki kuwa wapangaji....( bora yeye alisema madini tuyakalie tu sababu hayaozi mpaka pale tutakapopata akili nzuri)

Dictator yes sometimes a leader needs to be ili aweze kuwapeleka watu, ukiwabembeleza watu sometimes kazi haziendi


Now tell me how is the choice of quality makes you make bad or good decisions, in politics..???, unless you are running a fashion show, I think it does not matter.

Does Nyerere wearing shorts better or worse than Nyerere in trousers???, Clothes Dont Make a Pirate...., what matters is what is between your ears, and who cares whose pants they belonged to even if its a true story although I very much doubt..

Anaependa nchi yake atawacha watu wateseke kwa miaka kadhaa kabla yake na kadhaa baada yake? Watu kuzolewa makundi kwa makundi kutupwa maporini bila matibabu, chakula, nyumba, wakifa na wafe, huo ndio uzalendo? utapenda nchi watu wako usiwapende huo ndio uzalendo? hebu tuwe wakweli kidogo.

Was Ujamaa just hard to implement or it was a total failure? be realistic please.

Is what you are saying about dictatorship truly convincing you or its just another argument? If that is the case, then heil hitler! now i know why he fancied Hitlers mustaches. But I am not at all convinced with this argument.

You should really know something about what makes peoples distinct in their community or how they were raised to really know what I am talking about, its kind of a bit complicated to try and educate you on the difference between fashion and social behaviors of different communities. However, I will do just that:

Take a simple example of going to a night club clad in a tight mini skirt and a skin tight backless top where everyone would not even bother to notice if you are there and those who notice may only shower praise on how great you look. Now, stroll with the same things at day time in Kariakoo Market and face the consequences. Why?

I am sure by that simple example you will now understand what I meant by mentioning nyereres shorts (kaptura). It was simply odd and socially not acceptable in some areas at those times. As odd as wearing a mini skirt and passing by Kariakoo during the day time, presently.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

tehe tehe tehe....!! nape naona kaongeza kidogo per diem kutoka buku mbili mpaka....au kuna watu wa "zamu yetu"wametuma watu wao mtandaoni!!! Ndiyo maana Mbayuwayu anamwita Nyerere mzee Nyerere tofauti na wengine wanavyoita baba wa Taifa!!
Hii thread inahusu ukabila ila naona yameingia mambo mengi tu!! Mimi nilikuwa hata sijijui wakati wa vita vya kagera !!Ila mzazi wangu ananiambia life ilikuwa nzuri sana kabla ya vita..! Kwa wafanyakazi mshahara ulikuwa unakutana na mshahara mwingine ila baada ya ya vita ndiyo hivyo tukafunga mkanda !!

"Miezi kumi na nane ikawa miaka kumi na nane" JMK 07-06-2011.

 

[Dume la Mende]

Hivi nyerere alifanya kipi kizuri kwa nchi hii?

Faiza,, you are beginning to get into my nerves now!

 

[VoiceOfReason]

ukichunguza utaona najibu
kuhusu better leader na sio better president
tofautisha hapo

Sawa kaka; Class Prefect wangu alikuwa kiongozi mzuri sana, lakini sidhani kama angeweza kuongoza shule; tunaangalia na responsibility ya mtu; kwahiyo huenda hata hao marais ambao tunaona hawafai lakini tukiwapa Ukuu wa Mkoa huenda wakafanya vyema...,

thats why am looking Nyerere na wakati aliokuwepo na watu waliokuwa wamemzunguka na vitendea kazi; probably hawa viongozi wa sasa wangekuwepo kipindi kile wangeuza nchi na kuhamia France kwenye Chateau; au kununua kisiwa kidogo na kuhakikisha hadi wajukuu zao wanaishi kama wafalme

 

[FaizaFoxy]

A leader is "a person who influences a group of people towards the achievement of a goal". Haya niambia kati ya maneno yote hapo juu ni kipi hakukifanya??, baada ya hapo ndio tutakuja kwenye bad or good alafu ukimaliza nitajia viongozi watano Africa ambao walikuwa bora kuliko yeye

Which goals did nyerere achieve? he himself admitted he was a failure, who are you to change his words? "...in his farewell speech while commenting on his economic policies he declared "I failed. Let's admit it."...

Source: nyerere - We are African Youth

 

[VoiceOfReason]

I am sure by that simple example you will now understand what I meant by mentioning nyereres shorts (kaptura). It was simply odd and socially not acceptable in some areas at those times. As odd as wearing a mini skirt and passing by Kariakoo during the day time, presently.

I think now we are clutching straws..., if we can crucify somebody by not knowing what was socially acceptable at those places, be it whatever odd it was and I think its shallow of people if they cant look beyond the mere appearance ..., Hey for me Ghandi was still a good leader although he was wearing a bed sheet....

Vijiji vya Ujamaa was very bad implemented but that does not make it necessarily a bad idea; At least in Nyerere times majority of people where poor and the class gap was not as big sio sasa jirani yako anakula kuku getini kuna mtoto wa masikini ambaye mlo wa mwisho alikula juzi.