Kagoda Agriculture Ltd: Another BOT scandal

[Zitto]

you are not serious at all. Haya angalia haba kurefresh mind yako https://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la-siasa/20767-habari-njema-je-mnayajua-haya-3.html

Haha haha haha

Hiyo mbona tayari nimepeleka swali bungeni. Nilidhani unasemea Kamati ya Bomani. Hizi nyingine ni kazi za kila siku na wala hazizuii kufanya kazi nyingine. Tumetumwa Bungeni kufanya kazi hizi. Na JF inasaidia sana kupata taarifa.

Point ya msingi katika mambo makubwa kama haya ya KAGODA ni rahisi sana kupoteza watu maboya. Ninarudia, Lowasa hahusiki moja kwa moja na KAGODA. Labda wanaofloat jina lake hapa wana ajenda fulani ambayo ninaamini ni kutuzuga.

Ninadhani what i have ni kamili. Ninaamini ni 100%!

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

The Countdown has begun (T-4 days)...

 

[Zitto]

Basi ungeishia hapo Zitto. Unapoanza kutuambia kigezo cha "state sponsored corruption" unakuwa msanii. Who is "the state" ? You tell us.

Who is "the state" ?

Kina JMushi na watu wengine wenye akili ni lazima watakuuliza kama Waziri Mkuu sio the state who is "the state" ?

"The state" inaweza kwenda jela ? Unajua "the state" ni smokescreen, mtu kama ghost vile, na huwezi kumpata kumpeleka polisi, kwa hiyo unasema aliyetenda ufisadi wa Kagoda "ni state" ili asipelekwe mtu kwenye vyombo vya sheria, sio ?

Who is "the state" ?

Kuhani by state sponsored corruption i meant deal lilisukwa na wakuu kadhaa na kulibariki kwa sababu maalumu. Sina maana ya zile sababu za Balali "fedha za usalama' hapana. Utakuwa umeelewa vibaya.

State sponsored corruption is different from 'using state to cover' NO. It means state allowed the deal.

Umeelewa vibaya kabisa kabisa! Ndio maana umenituhumu mambo ya ajabu kweli. Hata hivyo, sijatilia maanani.

 

[Zitto]

Jamani, hivi kitu kikishasemwa ni "state sponsored" bado kuna ufafanuzi unatakiwa kweli - mbona hii ni "self-evident and axiomatic". The buck stops with the highest authority in the land, period. State house can be a very lonely place and if you doubt this, muulize Kichaka.

Asante kaka, labda kina Kuhani wataelewa

 

[BAK]

State sponsored corruption is different from 'using state to cover' NO. It means state allowed the deal.

Who is the state who allowed the deal!? Zitto, hakuna state iliyoruhusu EPA deal hawa ni watu ambao ni wezi tu ambao kwa namna moja au nyingine wamenufaika na wizi mkubwa wa EPA ili kujitajirisha wao, familia zao na marafiki zao. Hili swala la state kuruhusu hiyo deal halipo kabisa.

 

[jmushi1]

Kuhani by state sponsored corruption i meant deal lilisukwa na wakuu kadhaa na kulibariki kwa sababu maalumu. Sina maana ya zile sababu za Balali "fedha za usalama' hapana. Utakuwa umeelewa vibaya.

State sponsored corruption is different from 'using state to cover' NO. It means state allowed the deal.

Umeelewa vibaya kabisa kabisa! Ndio maana umenituhumu mambo ya ajabu kweli. Hata hivyo, sijatilia maanani.

Politics as usual..Nimeuliza swali uka ignore...Kuhani amekulima swali lile lile na bado unakwepa kisiasa.
Mfano niliotowa kuhusiana na kauli ya usalama wa Taifa ni similar in terms of ambiguity.
Unaposema state allowed the deal na huku ukisema Lowassa hakuwakilisha state bali chama ndipo naposhindwa kuelewa.
Kwenye execution ya hiyo deal si ni lazima kuna procedures za ku approve?
Unapothubutu kusema EL hakuhusika hata kidogo yeye binafsi una maana gani?
Kuna ubinafsi na u state hapo na sielewi vigezo vyako vya kumetetea EL na kumpakazia huyo state peke yake.

 

[Zitto]

Who is the state who allowed the deal!? Zitto, hakuna state iliyoruhusu EPA deal hawa ni watu ambao ni wezi tu ambao kwa namna moja au nyingine wamenufaika na wizi mkubwa wa EPA ili kujitajirisha wao, familia zao na marafiki zao. Hili swala la state kuruhusu hiyo deal halipo kabisa.

Who is the state? Watu

 

[Mshiiri]

Maoni yangu binafsi tu hayo

Thanks hon. Zitto.
If that is the case; is it true that the national security has no interest with Tanzania - the country they swore to die for defending intelligently. Does it mean what they do is what we see them doing? Protecting the highly ranked officials, speeding their vehicles, etc. I suspect they should also speed the life of those interfere with citizens interests and treasures. And seeing that Tanzanians are not lied to, denied the truth, living in extreme poverty, and devicing means to tackle the poverty intelligently rather than the conventional means.

BUT all in all a secret service must be working hard to sort out the names and doing all it can to restore the stolen treasures from BOT and from Tanzanians in general.

To the best of knowledge and comprehension if such a high ranking official steal our treasure while we stay in deep poverty then a death penalty here would be a great idea as it is a capital mistake for it denied privileges to Tanzanians. It should be taken equal to treason.

 

[jmushi1]

Jamani, hivi kitu kikishasemwa ni "state sponsored" bado kuna ufafanuzi unatakiwa kweli - mbona hii ni "self-evident and axiomatic". The buck stops with the highest authority in the land, period. State house can be a very lonely place and if you doubt this, muulize Kichaka.

The buck stops with highest office lakini hiyo ni political move...Kwasababu Rumsfeld alipojiuzulu Bush bado alikuwa madarakani lakini haina maana kuwa kujiuzulu kwa Rumsfeld ndiko kumemwondowa kwenye tuhuma maamuzi mabaya yaliyopeleka Taifa kuingia kwenye vita visivyokuwa vya lazima.
Tukitumia siasa basi tutasema tu tusubiri uchaguzi wa 2010 na JK asichaguliwe...Hapa tunapozungumzia accountability ni tofauti..Tunataka tuone all the evidence na ndani yake tutakuta wahusika walikiuka taratibu za nchi na si mambo ya binafsi ama sijui kauli za state.

 

[Zitto]

Politics as usual..Nimeuliza swali uka ignore...Kuhani amekulima swali lile lile na bado unakwepa kisiasa.
Mfano niliotowa kuhusiana na kauli ya usalama wa Taifa ni similar in terms of ambiguity.
Unaposema state allowed the deal na huku ukisema Lowassa hakuwakilisha state bali chama ndipo naposhindwa kuelewa.
Kwenye execution ya hiyo deal si ni lazima kuna procedures za ku approve?
Unapothubutu kusema EL hakuhusika hata kidogo yeye binafsi una maana gani?
Kuna ubinafsi na u state hapo na sielewi vigezo vyako vya kumetetea EL na kumpakazia huyo state peke yake.

Sitaki kuwa mtetezi wa Lowasa hapa maana siwezi kufanya hivyo. Nilikuwa naweka facts sawa ili tusiyumbishwe wakati tumeshawaround wezi wetu.

KAGODA took money from BOT between August 1st and December 14th 2005. EL became PM December 30 2005.

Kipindi hicho hapakuwa na 'substantive PM' hivyo hata Sumaye hayumo katika state hiyo ninayoisema. Watu 4 wanajua KAGODA - watajulikana soon. Watapelekwa mahakamani, mimi sijui.

 

[Steve Dii]

Jamani, ni mmoja tu ndiye anayejibu madukuduku yetu kwenye thread hii... na ndiyo huyu huyu mmoja tunayemtaka ajibu kila swali katika muda tunaoonekana kumpangia... Hapana, tuwe na subira jamani pale anapoonekana kuchelewa.

 

[BAK]

Who is the state? Watu

Watu hawa wamenufaika sana kwa wizi wa EPA na Watanzania tunachotaka kukiona wanafikishwa mahakamani kujibu tuhuma nzito dhidi yao na wakionekana wana hatia wapewe adhabu nzito na kufilisiwa bila kuogopa vyeo vyao ndani chama au serikali ili kukomesha hizi tabia za wanaojiita viongozi ambao hutumia madaraka yao kufanya ufisadi dhidi ya Watanzania ambao unadumaza maendeleo ya nchi yetu miaka nenda miaka rudi.

 

[BAK]

Jamani, ni mmoja tu ndiye anayejibu madukuduku yetu kwenye thread hii... na ndiyo huyu huyu mmoja tunayemtaka ajibu kila swali katika muda tunaoonekana kumpangia... Hapana, tuwe na subira jamani pale anapoonekana kuchelewa.

SteveD, tunafurahia sana kuwa naye hapa pamoja na kuwa ana majukumu chungu nzima, tungependa pia wengine wajumuike nasi kujadili mambo mbali mbali kuhusu nchi yetu, lakini wanachungulia kwa mbali. Akiondoka leo labda anaweza asionekane tena kwa wiki kadhaa 😉 Hivyo wacha leo tumtwange na maswali maana hatujui tutamuona tena hapa ukumbini lini. We appreciate his participation.

 

[jmushi1]

Sitaki kuwa mtetezi wa Lowasa hapa maana siwezi kufanya hivyo. Nilikuwa naweka facts sawa ili tusiyumbishwe wakati tumeshawaround wezi wetu.

KAGODA took money from BOT between August 1st and December 14th 2005. EL became PM December 30 2005.

Kipindi hicho hapakuwa na 'substantive PM' hivyo hata Sumaye hayumo katika state hiyo ninayoisema. Watu 4 wanajua KAGODA - watajulikana soon. Watapelekwa mahakamani, mimi sijui.

Tunashukuru kwa taarifa hizo...Hao watu wanne tunawasubiri kwa hamu sana..Lakini kama pesa ziliwafikia kwa namna moja ama nyingine then still wako responsible..Kwasababu kama nilivyoelewa hapo juu ni kwamba watuhumiwa hao walitumia loop hole hapo kwasababu sasa wanataka kusema kulikuwa hakuna utawala kwa kipindi hicho cha august 1st na december 14th....Kwasababu kulikuwa hakuna waziri mkuu..Sumaye anasema yeye hakuwa state na El ana claim the same..Kama vile walijuwa watakavyojitetea...Kagoda ni mradi mkubwa na maelezo na malengo yake ni mazuri ila hao state ndio wameharibu na wamekula pesa nyingi sana...Sasa ina maana hatuna sheria zinazo govern transition period na who is responsible?

Maana dili hili na mengineyo yalivyokuwa ya kimafia si nasikia hata wakati wa holiday ndiyo mambo mengi yalifanyika ili kukwepa rekodi sahihi?

Haya tusubiri hao watu wanne ambao wanajuwa Kagoda kwasababu lazima kuna mtu aliye act on behalf of either prime ministers...Nadhani EL alikuwa hajakabidhiwa ofisi na umesema Sumaye alikuwa si state tena...Hao watu wanaodaiwa kuwa ni state walipitisha maamuzi hayo ndiyo tunawataka....Je ni kina nani hao wali act on behalf of the state kwenye transition period? Na wali act on behalf of the previous administration of the current one?

Kiutaratibu utawala uliokuwepo kabla ya kuapishwa na kusimikwa kwa utawala mpya ndio ambao bado wanakuwa responsible...Hata hapa US Obama bado ni president elect tu na anything happens Kichaka bado ni responsible..Vipi kuhusu sisi?
Kwasababu bado sijaelewa nani yuko responsible wakati ambapo hakuna "Substantive" Prime minister.

 

[Zitto]

Tunashukuru kwa taarifa hizo...Hao watu wanne tunawasubiri kwa hamu sana..Lakini kama pesa ziliwafikia kwa namna moja ama nyingine then still wako responsible..Kwasababu kama nilivyoelewa hapo juu ni kwamba watuhumiwa hao walitumia loop hole hapo kwasababu sasa wanataka kusema kulikuwa hakuna utawala kwa kipindi hicho cha august 1st na december 14th....Kwasababu kulikuwa hakuna waziri mkuu..Sumanye anasema yeye hakuwa state na El ana claim the same..Kama vile walijuwa watakavyojitetea...Kagoda ni mradi mkubwa na maelezo na malengo yake ni mazuri ila hao state ndio wameharibu na wamekula pesa nyingi sana...Sasa ina maana hatuna sheria zinazo govern transition period na who is responsible?

Maana dili hili na mengineyo yalivyokuwa ya kimafia si nasikia hata wakati wa holiday ndiyo mambo mengi yalifanyika ili kukwepa rekodi sahihi?

Haya tusubiri hao watu wanne ambao wanajuwa Kagoda kwasababu lazima kuna mtu aliye act on behalf of either prime ministers...Nadhani EL alikuwa hajakabidhiwa ofisi na umesema Sumaye alikuwa si state tena...Hao watu wanaodaiwa kuwa ni state walipitisha maamuzi hayo ndiyo tunawataka....Je ni kina nani hao wali act on behalf of the state kwenye transition period?

Kiutaratibu utawala uliokuwepo kabla ya kuapishwa na kusimikwa kwa utawala mpya ndio ambao bado wanakuwa responsible...Hata hapa US Obama bado ni president elect tu na anything happens Kichaka bado ni responsible..Vipi kuhusu sisi?

Sitajibu baada ya hapo. Inatosha sana kwa leo.

 

[Steve Dii]

Tunashukuru kwa taarifa hizo...Hao watu wanne tunawasubiri kwa hamu sana..Lakini kama pesa ziliwafikia kwa namna moja ama nyingine then still wako responsible..Kwasababu kama nilivyoelewa hapo juu ni kwamba watuhumiwa hao walitumia loop hole hapo kwasababu sasa wanataka kusema kulikuwa hakuna utawala kwa kipindi hicho cha august 1st na december 14th....Kwasababu kulikuwa hakuna waziri mkuu..Sumanye anasema yeye hakuwa state na El ana claim the same..Kama vile walijuwa watakavyojitetea...Kagoda ni mradi mkubwa na maelezo na malengo yake ni mazuri ila hao state ndio wameharibu na wamekula pesa nyingi sana...Sasa ina maana hatuna sheria zinazo govern transition period na who is responsible?

Maana dili hili na mengineyo yalivyokuwa ya kimafia si nasikia hata wakati wa holiday ndiyo mambo mengi yalifanyika ili kukwepa rekodi sahihi?

Haya tusubiri hao watu wanne ambao wanajuwa Kagoda kwasababu lazima kuna mtu aliye act on behalf of either prime ministers...Nadhani EL alikuwa hajakabidhiwa ofisi na umesema Sumaye alikuwa si state tena...Hao watu wanaodaiwa kuwa ni state walipitisha maamuzi hayo ndiyo tunawataka....Je ni kina nani hao wali act on behalf of the state kwenye transition period?

Kiutaratibu utawala uliokuwepo kabla ya kuapishwa na kusimikwa kwa utawala mpya ndio ambao bado wanakuwa responsible...Hata hapa US Obama bado ni president elect tu na anything happens Kichaka bado ni responsible..Vipi kuhusu sisi?

Kudos JMushi kwa kumention hapo juu mkuu.

 

[Kuhani]

Sitaki kuwa mtetezi wa Lowasa hapa maana siwezi kufanya hivyo.

Come on Zitto, come on!!

Hii hapa chini ni very compelling closing argument ya public attorney wa Lowassa, Zitto Kabwe.

Mnyonge mnyongeni haki yake mpeni. Kwa taarifa nilizonazo, Lowasa kama mtu binafsi hahusiki na KAGODA. Ana matatizo yake lakini katika hili mtakuwa mnamwonea tu. Sasa tusionee watu. Tuwe wakweli. KAGODA, kwa taarifa nilizo nazo mimi ni state sponsored corruption.

Maoni yangu binafsi tu hayo

 

[Zitto]

Come on Zitto, come on!

Hii hapa chini ni very compelling closing argument ya public attorney wa Lowassa, Zitto Kabwe.

Ha ha ha ha! Does it sound so?

Wasnt the intention. Couldnt even imagine

 

[Zitto]

Kudos JMushi kwa kumention hapo juu mkuu.

During that time Mkapa was the Head of State, it was not a transition period. In real sense we do not have transition period as you have in the US. Hii ni Afrika nzima karibia. Uliona Kenya au Zambia au Zimbabwe? Tanzania ni hivyo hivyo

 

[Mama]

Ha ha ha ha! Does it sound so?

Wasnt the intention. Couldnt even imagine

You raise doubts and bring despair.