Fikra za Mwalimu: Hizi hapa.. mzikubali au mzipinge!

[Mwafrika wa Kike]

fikra za maduka ya kaya na chama kushika hatamu...seems humu kuna watu bado wanaishi 100 yrs ago!

Koba,

kama watu wanaendelea kuipigia kura ccm kwa kishindo unategemea nini?

 

[Mwafrika wa Kike]

Mkandara,

Mimi niko focused na Nyerere, zamu ya wengine kwenye thread yao tutawabalasa sawa sawa.
Ninapombondea Nyerere kwamba ali mismanage uchumi I am saying just that, sijaongea chochote kuhusu Mwinyi mkapa na Kikwete.Kwa hiyo usisome kumsema Nyerere kama alikuwa weak katika uchumi ni ku-vindicate Mwinyi, Mkapa au kikwete.

I do not believe in two wrongs making a right.Read just what I write and nothing more, nothing less.

Bado nakusubiria Mkulu umalizane na analysis ya Nyerere na hizo data mulizoleta hapa!

........

 

[Pundit]

Bado nakusubiria Mkulu umalizane na analysis ya Nyerere na hizo data mulizoleta hapa!

........

Nimalizane mara ngapi sasa?

 

[Mwafrika wa Kike]

Nimalizane mara ngapi sasa?

Nimeuliza maswali rahisi tu mkuu,

Una jibu la maswali yangu? Ukimya pia au kutojibu huwa inahesabika hapa kama kutokuwa na jibu!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Nimeuliza maswali rahisi tu mkuu,

Una jibu la maswali yangu? Ukimya pia au kutojibu huwa inahesabika hapa kama kutokuwa na jibu!

Taratibu mrembo weye...usije ukawa diagnosed na low self esteem na inferiority complex kwa kuwa king'ang'anizi....

 

[Mwafrika wa Kike]

Taratibu mrembo weye...usije ukawa diagnosed na low self esteem na inferiority complex kwa kuwa king'ang'anizi....

Hii haitakuwa mara ya kwanza mkuu kupewa hiyo diagnosis.... Ni suala la kuweka records straight wakati wanaoendelea na huu mjadala wakiendeleza hoja zao!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Hii haitakuwa mara ya kwanza mkuu kupewa hiyo diagnosis.... Ni suala la kuweka records straight wakati wanaoendelea na huu mjadala wakiendeleza hoja zao!

Basi next time watasema una suffer na PMS....kwikwikwiiii

 

[Pundit]

Nimeuliza maswali rahisi tu mkuu,

Una jibu la maswali yangu? Ukimya pia au kutojibu huwa inahesabika hapa kama kutokuwa na jibu!

MWK,

Mbona nimekujibu vizuri tu, nimekwambia kwamba kama mtu anataka ku establish kuwa Nyerere ali mismanage uchumi hahitaji kutoa data za 1960-1985, kwanza uchumi mzima wa 1960-65 ulikuwa ahsante mkoloni kwa hiyo data yoyote hawezi kuchukua credit.nyerere policies zake zimeanza kuwa laid down 1967 kwenye Azimio la Arusha giving 3 years mpaka kuanza kuzi chart is absolutely within the margin.Ile decade ya kwanza largely ilikuwa ni kuondoa mabaki ya system za kikoloni na kuweka systems zetu.That is one

Two, whatever the case may be for 1960-70, whether the economy was very high or very low, the downward curvfe from 1970 to 1985 will still show Nyerere a failure.

If 1960-1970 will be lower than 1970-1985, then Nyerere will be a failure in that he started low, peaked and failed to maintain his peak and took a tumbling downfall.

If 1960-1970 will be lower than 1970-1985 (which is the case,I just dont have time to look for the data now) Nyerere will be proven an even bigger failure because he took the country relatively affluent at least as far as inflation, exchange rates and balance of trade, and took it to on an economic experiment that proved a Frankesteinian disaster.Mfano mdogo tulikuwa tunaongoza kwa uzalishaji wa mkonge duniani, akaja kutaifisha mashamba ya mkonge ikawa disaster serikali kuyaendesha.

Kuhusu matatizo ya uchumi wa dunia watu wameonyesha ukiweka on a par, matatizo yetu yalikuwa makubwa zaidi kuliko effects za world oil crisis.Sisis tulishindwa hata kujilisha kulikuwa na an artificial famine.Kibaya zaidi Mzee huyu typical communist style akakataa kuomba msaada mpaka dakika ya mwisho, ndiyo akajifanya "nilikuwa sina habari".Halafu leo tunashangaa Kikwete anapoimba "I was not informed" kila siku kumbe mikoba kairithi kutoka kwa baba yake.Tunamuona Nyerere saint na Kikwete demon kumbe wote are cut from the same cloth,and the fabric of green and yellow is entrenched deeply in their veins.

Mwenyewe anasema hapa

There are things that I would have done more firmly or not at all. For example, I would not nationalize the sisal plantations. This was a mistake. I did not realize how difficult it would be for the state to manage agriculture. Agriculture is difficult to socialize. I tried to tell my government that what was traditionally the family's in the village social organization should be left with the family, while what was new could be communalized at the village level. The land issue and family holdings were very sensitive. I saw this intellectually but it was hard to translate it into policy implementation. But I still think that in the end Tanzania will return to the values and basic principles of the Arusha Declaration

Mwenyewe kakubali kuchemsha halafu watu wanataka kumtetea?

 

[Mwafrika wa Kike]

Basi next time watasema una suffer na PMS....kwikwikwiiii

That what they said last time au umesahau ile thread... kwi kwi kwi kwi.....

 

[Mkandara]

Pundit,
Na ndio maana nikasema at the end of his road Nyerere ali fail kiuchumi hapakuwepo na sababu ya kuvuta mwaka 1970 hadi 1984 wakati mtawala wa wakati wote huo alikuwa yeye Nyerere, unless unataka kutuambia kabla na baada yake uchumi ulikuwa mzuri...
Binafsi nachotazama hapa ni kwamba Nyerere pamoja na gari lake kuishiwa mafuta njiani pengine kutokana na mahesabu mabaya lakini alitufikisha mahala toka porini na tulifahamu tunakwenda wapi..Iwe tulikuwa ktk hali dhoofu sana tulipoishiwa mafuta lakini tulifika mahala na mwanga tuliweza kuuona..

Alichokifanya Mwinyi na wengine baada yake ni kununua mafuta ya kuliendesha gari ambalo ununuzi wake ulifanywa na Nyerere..hawajafikiria kununua gari jingine isipokuwa hilo hilo la mwalimu.. na kabla ya Nyerere hatukuwa na hata baiskeli wala plan sasa hii safari mnayozungumzia ni safari ipi?

Tatizo la wengi hapa wanajaribu ku justfy gharama za ununuzi wa mafuta na zile alizoingia mwalimu kununua gari, kuwafundisha madeva na kadhalika...kwa sababu tu hawa waliofuata waliamua kutumia njia nyingine ambayo pia imetupeleka porini na kibaya zaidi hapa tulipo hatuna hata dira (cumpas) acha mbali kuwa na Navigator!...hii adha mnaipima vipi!
Upo hapo mkuu wangu...

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

That what they said last time au umesahau ile thread... kwi kwi kwi kwi.....

Dang it! You done heard it all, haven't you?

 

[Pundit]

Pundit,
Na ndio maana nikasema at the end of his road Nyerere ali fail kiuchumi hapakuwepo na sababu ya kuvuta mwaka 1970 hadi 1984 wakati mtawala wa wakati wote huo alikuwa yeye Nyerere, unless unataka kutuambia kabla na baada yake uchumi ulikuwa mzuri...
Binafsi nachotazama hapa ni kwamba Nyerere pamoja na gari lake kuishiwa mafuta njiani pengine kutokana na mahesabu mabaya lakini alitufikisha mahala toka porini na tulifahamu tunakwenda wapi..Iwe tulikuwa ktk hali dhoofu sana tulipoishiwa mafuta lakini tulifika mahala na mwanga tuliweza kuuona..
Alichokufanya Mwinyi ni kununua tu mafuta kuliendesha gari ambalo ununuzi wake ulifanywa na Nyerere..kabla ya Nyerere hatukuwa na hata baiskeli wala plan sasa hii safari mnayozungumzia ni safari ipi?

Tatizo la wengi hapa wanajaribu ku justfy gharama za ununuzi wa mafuta na zile alizoingia mwalimu kununua gari, kuwafundisha madeva na kadhalika...kwa sababu tu hawa waliofuata waliamua kutumia njia nyingine ambayo pia imetupeleka porini na kibaya zaidi hapa tulipo hatuna hata dira (cumpas) acha mbali kuwa na Navigator!...
Upo hapo mkuu wangu...

Kwa hiyo wewe unaona enzi ya Nyerere tulikuwa na muelekeo?

 

[Mwafrika wa Kike]

MWK,

Mbona nimekujibu vizuri tu, nimekwambia kwamba kama mtu anataka ku establish kuwa Nyerere ali mismanage uchumi hahitaji kutoa data za 1960-1985, kwanza uchumi mzima wa 1960-65 ulikuwa ahsante mkoloni kwa hiyo data yoyote hawezi kuchukua credit.nyerere policies zake zimeanza kuwa laid down 1967 kwenye Azimio la Arusha giving 3 years mpaka kuanza kuzi chart is absolutely within the margin.Ile decade ya kwanza largely ilikuwa ni kuondoa mabaki ya system za kikoloni na kuweka systems zetu.That is one

Hii ni analysis yako na mimi nikitaka kufanya judgement ya kitu chochote ninaangalia muda wote na kisha nafanya comparison kati ya vipindi. Katika hili utaamini hivyo na mimi nitaamini hivi kwa hiyo hii sio conclusive kama ulivyosema!

Two, whatever the case may be for 1960-70, whether the economy was very high or very low, the downward curvfe from 1970 to 1985 will still show Nyerere a failure.

If 1960-1970 will be lower than 1970-1985, then Nyerere will be a fauilure in that he started low, peaked and failed to maintain his peak and took a tumbling downfall.

Kwa nini utumie if wakati bado unaweza kupata hizo data kule kule ulikozipata hizo za 1970 au kwenye reputable sources zingine. Ukiamua kuingia ulimwengu wa data ili kutoa proof ya point yako, burden inakuwa kwako kuwa na conclusive analysis.

If 1960-1970 will be lower than 1970-1985 (which is the case,I just dont have time to look for the data now) Nyerere will be proven an even bigger failure because he took the country relatively affluent at least as far as inflation, exchange rates and balance of trade, and took it to on an economic experiment that proved a Frankesteinian disaster.Mfano mdogo tulikuwa tunaongoza kwa uzalishaji wa mkonge duniani, akaja kutaifisha mashamba ya mkonge ikawa disaster serikali kuyaendesha.

Inaoneka mkuu una tatizo hata la kusoma data zako mwenyewe. Graph hizo zinaonyesha very steep fall miaka ya around 1980. Lazima kutakuwa na maelezo kwa hili. Zaidi ya hapa, hiyo data yako inaonyesha vingine kabisa (hata kwa standard za IMF ambao hawakuelewana vizuri sana na Nyerere).

Graph yoyote kama ina sehemu fulani ya graph ambayo inatoka sana kwenye mtiririko mwingine huwa inatolewa maelezo. Nimekuuliza kwa maelezo yako mwenyewe ili uwe safe kuelezea sababu ambayo unadhani ilipelekea outlier ya miaka hiyo na unakwepa hili swali.

Nimekupa hint kuwa uchumi wa Marekani uliyumba sana miaka ya Carter (1976-1980) na nikakuuliza kuweka picha kidogo kama hiyo ndiyo yaweza kuwa sababu, au kama vita ya Kagera ya mwaka mwishoni mwa miaka ya 70, ila naona unakwepa kusema hili.

Mwenyewe anasema hapa



Mwenyewe kakubali kuchemsha halafu watu wanataka kumtetea?

Kumbuka kinachoendelea hapa kati yako na mimi sio ubishi wa kama Nyerere alifanikiwa au kushindwa (huu nimeuacha kitambo sana). Hapa nakuuliza tu maswali katika data zako unazoziita conclusive ili uzitolee maelezo.

Simple and Clear

 

[Mwafrika wa Kike]

Dang it! You done heard it all, haven't you?

Tell me sumt'n I don know

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Tell me sumt'n I don know

I have a crush on you.....

 

[Mwafrika wa Kike]

I have a crush on you.....

That's good to know, Are sure my kid sis is off the net right now?

 

[Kuhani]

Ha nilikimbilia kuona kama zimewekwa data za uchumi wa Tanzania mwaka 1961 - 1970 nikakuta kumbe bado ni yale ya sheria ya 62 na 85! Basi bado nasubiria hizo za 1960 hadi 1970 kwa hamu ili nifanye uchambuzi wa kina!

Uchumi wa 1970 mpaka 1985 ndio uchumi wa Nyerere, uchumi wa Azimio la Arusha, uchumi wa Kijamaa!

Mwafrika wa Kike, utaonekana mbishi mbishi bure tu ndugu yangu.

Sasa ngoja nikumalize. Si huelewi lugha ya takwimu, basi nitatumia lugha unayoielewa, nimekusikia unaiongea: mantiki.

Tuseme nakubali -japo sijakubali - kwamba uchumi wa Tanzania ulikuwa mbaya toka mwaka 1970. Umedai - na tuseme ni kweli - kwamba Nyerere hakuachiwa Uchumi na Wakoloni. Ina maana hatukuwa na pengine pa kwenda ila juu. Tulikuwa sifuri!

Takwimu tulizo nazo zinasema uchumi uliharibiwa kutoka mwaka 1970 mpaka 1985. Hii ina maana Ujamaa na Kujitegemea ilipokuja uliendelea zaidi kuua uchumi wowote uliokuwepo. Mnara wa Nyerere katika historia ya dunia ni siasa zake za Ujamaa, zilizo pandwa 1967, na athiri zake kuja miaka ya 1970 na 1980, na sio miaka ya 60. Kwa hiyo tulitoka sifuri tukaenda...? Haiwezekani. Darasa la pili ndio haiwezekani, la sita kuna jibu: Hasi!

Kwa hiyo vyovyote vile, takwimu za 1960 mpaka 1970 hata zikionyesha uchumi mbaya, Nyerere aliumalizilia mbali hata ule mbaya wa Mkoloni! Hoja yako -au ukaidi- hapa unakufanya ufaidi makorowedho.

Ukisema Uchumi wa Tanzania haukuwa mbaya 1985, siku Nyerere anaondoka, kuliko nyuma, unaonekana aidha unatania au huna dhana ya kinachoendelea.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

That's good to know, Are sure my kid sis is off the net right now?

Uh oh....I hope she won't look at this thread...I hope she'll look at the subject and be like...'nah...too boring for me' or else I'll have some explaining to do.

Haya mrembo we endelea kukata ishu kwa kumkoma Nyani (not me) giladi....

 

[Mwafrika wa Kike]

Uchumi wa 1970 mpaka 1985 ndio uchumi wa Nyerere, uchumi wa Azimio la Arusha, uchumi wa Kijamaa!

Mwafrika wa Kike, utaonekana mbishi mbishi bure tu ndugu yangu.

Sasa ngoja nikumalize. Si huelewi lugha ya takwimu, basi nitatumia lugha unayoielewa, nimekusikia unaiongea: mantiki.

Tuseme nakubali -japo sijakubali - kwamba uchumi wa Tanzania ulikuwa mbaya toka mwaka 1970. Umedai - na tuseme ni kweli - kwamba Nyerere hakuachiwa Uchumi na Wakoloni. Ina maana hatukuwa na pengine pa kwenda ila juu. Tulikuwa sifuri!

Kwanza labda tukubaliane kitu kimoja hapa,

Mimi siko hapa kumtetea Nyerere kama alifanikiwa au la (Ni jambo ambalo halisaidii kumtetea au kumpondea mtu aliyekufa miaka 10 iliyopita kwa mtizamo wangu).

Nilichofanya hapa ni kuwauliza maswali nyie mlioleta hii document kama kawaida ya JF. Je kuuliza maswali ni ubishi?

Takwimu tulizo nazo zinasema uchumi uliharibiwa kutoka mwaka 1970 mpaka 1985. Hii ina maana Ujamaa na Kujitegemea ilipokuja uliendelea zaidi kuua uchumi wowote uliokuwepo. Mnara wa Nyerere katika historia ya dunia ni siasa zake za Ujamaa, zilizo pandwa 1967, na athiri zake kuja miaka ya 1970 na 1980, na sio miaka ya 60. Kwa hiyo tulitoka sifuri tukaenda...? Haiwezekani. Darasa la pili ndio haiwezekani, la sita kuna jibu: Hasi!

Hivi wewe na Pundit mnashirikiana kutoa hizi data? Kama ndivyo basi subirini tu maana labda kuna wengine wanaweza kuja kwenye rescue yenu na kuleta hizo ambazo nyie hamna.

Kama hakuna data zote za utawala wa Nyerere. Hizo data sio conclusive. Na kama data mlizonazo zinaonyesha kuwa around mwaka 1980 kuna mporomoko mkubwa wa uchumi wa Tanzania na nyie msiwe na maelezo ya kwanini mwaka 1980 kulitokea shock kiasi kikubwa hivyo ya uchumi basi data zenu sio conclusive.

Kwa hiyo vyovyote vile, takwimu za 1960 mpaka 1970 hata zikionyesha uchumi mbaya, Nyerere aliumalizilia mbali hata ule mbaya wa Mkoloni! Hoja yako -au ukaidi- hapa unakufanya ufaidi makorowedho.

Ukisema Uchumi wa Tanzania haukuwa mbaya 1985, siku Nyerere anaondoka, kuliko nyuma, unaonekana aidha unatania au huna dhana ya kinachoendelea.

Sijasema chochote kuhusu mwaka 1985 au kabla ya hapo zaidi tu ya kuwauliza mlete data za kabla ya 1960 for a complete analysis na pia mtolee maelezo ya kwanini kuna shock kubwa miaka around 1980?

Maswali rahisi tu jamani!

 

[Mwafrika wa Kike]

Uh oh....I hope she won't look at this thread...I hope she'll look at the subject and be like...'nah...too boring for me' or else I'll have some explaining to do.

Haya mrembo we endelea kukata ishu kwa kumkoma Nyani (not me) giladi....

Dont worry... there is always an explanation to everything. She is doing economics and she will look at this part of the thread as usual.

There will be an is for is and what you mean by is.... Bill C