Did Nyerere admit he was a "failure"? Some say "Yes he did"...

[X-PASTER]

X-Paster,
Hapana. Kwa mfano wangu sijamva nguo Nyerere. Nimeonyesha kuwa kama yule mpanda mbegu kuna mahali mbegu hazikuota na kuna mahali ziliota. There was a lot of good under Mwalimu's leadership and there was some what he called "upumbavu." It is a far cry from FF's insistence that he was a total failure.

Mkuu, kuna nukuu za gazeti la Msemakweli toleo nambari 013 la Jumapili Juni 7-13, 1998 yenye kichwa cha habari,"Nyerere adai Ujamaa na Ukristo vimeshindwa" likinukuu mahojiano yaliyofanyika katika kipindi cha maswali na majibu katika television ya CNN.

Nyerere alisema... "Ujamaa umeshindwa kama vile Ukristo ulivyoshindwa. Ukristo ulianza yapata miaka 2000 iliyopita na kila Jumapili niendapo Kanisani nakuta watu bado wanahubiri. Na kwa kweli sina hakika kama kuna nchi hata moja tunayoweza kuiita taifa la Kikristo."
Hii inasadikiwa kuwa ni nukuu ya Marehemu Mwalim Julius Kambarage Nyerere.

Katika toleo hilo mwandishi wa Msemakweli akiripoti maoni ya Wakristo mbalimbali juu ya madai ya Nyerere. Wakristo wengi, wakiwemo Maprofesa na viongozi wa madhehebu mbalimbali ya Kikristo, walijitahidi sana kuutetea Ukristo kuwa haujashindwa bali Ujamaa ndio ulioshindwa peke yake. Moja ya sababu zilizotolewa ni kuwa Ujamaa umeshindwa kwa vile umetokana na mawazo ya mtu (Nyerere), wakati ukristo haujashindwa kwa sababu haukuanzishwa na mtu bali na Yesu.

Nimejaribu kulitafuta ilo gazeti mtandaoni bila ya mafanikio, labda wenzetu waishio Dar es salaam wanaweza kutusaidia kupata nakala ya ilo gazeti.

 

[Masuke]

Mkuu, kuna nukuu za gazeti la Msemakweli toleo nambari 013 la Jumapili Juni 7-13, 1998 yenye kichwa cha habari,"Nyerere adai Ujamaa na Ukristo vimeshindwa" likinukuu mahojiano yaliyofanyika katika kipindi cha maswali na majibu katika television ya CNN.

Nyerere alisema... "Ujamaa umeshindwa kama vile Ukristo ulivyoshindwa. Ukristo ulianza yapata miaka 2000 iliyopita na kila Jumapili niendapo Kanisani nakuta watu bado wanahubiri. Na kwa kweli sina hakika kama kuna nchi hata moja tunayoweza kuiita taifa la Kikristo."
Hii inasadikiwa kuwa ni nukuu ya Marehemu Mwalim Julius Kambarage Nyerere.

Katika toleo hilo mwandishi wa Msemakweli akiripoti maoni ya Wakristo mbalimbali juu ya madai ya Nyerere. Wakristo wengi, wakiwemo Maprofesa na viongozi wa madhehebu mbalimbali ya Kikristo, walijitahidi sana kuutetea Ukristo kuwa haujashindwa bali Ujamaa ndio ulioshindwa peke yake. Moja ya sababu zilizotolewa ni kuwa Ujamaa umeshindwa kwa vile umetokana na mawazo ya mtu (Nyerere), wakati ukristo haujashindwa kwa sababu haukuanzishwa na mtu bali na Yesu.

Nimejaribu kulitafuta ilo gazeti mtandaoni bila ya mafanikio, labda wenzetu waishio Dar es salaam wanaweza kutusaidia kupata nakala ya ilo gazeti.

Bora umekuwa Muungwana umesema gazeti hujalipata na siku ukilipata tuwekee hapa na sisi tuone, au; kwa sababu umesema wenyewe walinukuu mazungumzo ya kwenye CNN ambayo nadhani itakuwa ni television kwa nini usitafute hiyo video utuletee.

 

[X-PASTER]

Kama Nyerere aliwahi kusema au hakusema kuwa alishindwa , Kitu dhahiri ni kuwa wakati ameng'atuka nchi ilikua katika hali mbaya sana. Kitu kimoja kwa credit ya Nyerere ni kuwa hakuwa fisadi, pili aliona wakati umefika wa kupisha wengine kutawala na tatu amabyo ni muhimu alianzisha mfumo wa vyama vya upinzani na kuweka sheria ya raisi kutawala vipindi viwili tu.

Nyerere aling'atuka baada ya nchi kumshinda. Kulikuwa na majaribio ya kumpinua mara kadhaa wa kadhaa.

Nyerere hakuanzisha mfumo wa vyama vingi, bali yeye na serikali yake ya Tanu wakishirikiana na afro Shirazi Party ndio waliopiga marufuku vyama vya upinzani, nadhani ilikuwa mwaka 64.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

He never admitted that he was a failure. He couldn't do that because he was not a failure. He did admit, however, that he made mistakes during his administration. The two are completely different things. One can err in the course of pursuing a certain cause and yet succeed in accomplishing his goal. And this is what happened to Mwalimu. He made mistakes such as the villagization program, but his succeeded in building a unified state. Talking about leadership, I can bet my neck that it will take not less than 200 years for Tanzania to get a leader of Mwalimu's calibre!

What did he succeeded in?

200 Years? too little, I hope forever, no one gets to see the likes of him and experience the torments we went thru again.

 

[X-PASTER]

Bora umekuwa Muungwana umesema gazeti hujalipata na siku ukilipata tuwekee hapa na sisi tuone, au; kwa sababu umesema wenyewe walinukuu mazungumzo ya kwenye CNN ambayo nadhani itakuwa ni television kwa nini usitafute hiyo video utuletee.

Uungwana ndio tabia yangu, nadhani hata wewe unayo access ya kutafuta hizo habari mkuu.

 

[Nyamanoro]

bibie,
mimi hiyo spichi ya 1985 sijawahi kuisikia. Sijawahi kumsikia nyerere akisema he was a failure. Wewe unashikilia kuwa alisema hivyo na kutuwekea hapa "quotes". Sasa nakuomba kitu kimoja tu, tukate mzizi wa fitna. Iweke hiyo spichi hapa. Au tuambie imechapishwa kitabu gani tukabukue wenyewe. Ukishaiweka hapa tutaisoma na ama kukubaliana na wewe au kuendelea kukuita mzushi wa kifisadi.

it seems you were not born by then !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Masuke]

What did he succeeded in?

200 Years? too little, I hope forever, no one gets to see the likes of him and experience the torments we went thru again.

Degree yako ya 1982 ulitumia gharama kiasi gani hadi kuhitimu? na je ilikuwa ni hapa Tanzania au nje ya nchi?

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Kama Nyerere aliwahi kusema au hakusema kuwa alishindwa , Kitu dhahiri ni kuwa wakati ameng'atuka nchi ilikua katika hali mbaya sana. Kitu kimoja kwa credit ya Nyerere ni kuwa hakuwa fisadi, pili aliona wakati umefika wa kupisha wengine kutawala na tatu amabyo ni muhimu alianzisha mfumo wa vyama vya upinzani na kuweka sheria ya raisi kutawala vipindi viwili tu.

Hivi jmani kuiacha nchi mpaka ife kabisa halafu mnasema si ufisadi? hivi unaondoka kwenye madarak aunaichoma moto benki kuu anakuja mwenzako anakuta hakuna hata senti ya kuagizia dawa nje halafu mnasema si ufisadi?

Na sheria ya vyama vingi ilikuwepo kiabla yake na yeye ndio aliyoifuta na wakati imerudi tena hakuwep-o madarakani kwa muda mrefu sana. Hakuirudusha yeye, aliyekueleza kuwa aliirudisha yeye kakudanganya.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Degree yako ya 1982 ulitumia gharama kiasi gani hadi kuhitimu? na je ilikuwa ni hapa Tanzania au nje ya nchi?

None of your business.

 

[Masuke]

Uungwana ndio tabia yangu, nadhani hata wewe unayo access ya kutafuta hizo habari mkuu.

Safi sana kwa kuwa wewe ni muungwana, lakini sifa mojawapo ya uungwana ni kukubali ukweli hiyo sifa mkuu wangu wewe uliitelekeza wapi? maana hutaki kukubali japo kidogo kwamba Mwalimu nyerere kuna mambo aliyofanikiwa katika uongozi wake.

 

[Masuke]

None of your business.

I know, it is none of my business, just for curiosity; Degree yako iligharimu kiasi gani kutoka kwenye pato la Taifa mwaka 1982?

 

[Sooth]

Hahaaa, unanchekesha.Compare ya Kikwete na ya nyerere nakuanzia machache tu hapa.Nyerere Kilomita ngapi za barabara ya lami? Kikwete zaidi ya 10,000/= in 6 Years.Nyerere Shule ngapi kwa miaka 23, hata 200 hazifiki? Kikwete zaidi ya 2000 in 6 Years.Nyerere Wanafunzi wangapi wa vyuo vikuu in 23 years, total hawafiki 30,000? Kikwete zaidi ya 50,000 per year within 6 Years.Nyerere minimum education primary school, Kikwete minimum education Secondary shool.Nyerere foreign account bank balance when he quit, NIL, Kikwete Foreign account within 6 years, Good to import all we need for 6 Months (higher than any East African country).Nyerere Failed economy less than 3% growth rate when he left, Kikwete successful economy ever in Tanzania 7% average growth rate (one of the fastest growing economies in the world.)Unalo?

... Hizi ni takwimu, tuletee chanzo ili tuweze kuziamini, isije ikawa kama "I failed!Let us admit". Hata kama hizi takwimu ni za kweli, mafanikio ya awamu ya sasa ni mafanikio ya awamu zilizopita. Kwani Rais Kikwete kaanza from scratch? Kaja na Walimu, madaktari, wahandisi wake? Miradi mingi ya serikali ni muendelezo wa awamu moja hadi nyingine, so inawezekana kabisa unahesabu km za barabara hata zilie zilizoanza kujengwa na Mkapa. Pia kama unataka kumweka Rais Kikwete kwenye mizani, taja pia mapungufu yake so far-don't just sing songs of praise.

 

[Taifa_Kwanza]

Viongozi wote waliopita Tanzania failure mkubwa zaidi ni Nyerere. Alipewa nchi kwa ubwete badala ya kuanza pilika za kufanya maendeleo ya nchi yake akaanza kujiweka bize na ukombozi wa Mozambique, South Africa, Namibia , Angola n.k he even went further akatupeleka hadi Uganda pale tukaweka rais. Kama hiyo haitoshi hadi pale Congo DRC akaweka mkono wake. Huku wananchi wake wanakufa njaa, wanavaa midabwada 'kaa chonjo saa mbaya'.Alisahau 'charity' inaanzia nyumbani leo tumejichokea nchi zote hizi wametupita masikini ya mungu.

Huyu mzee ndio alikuwa mchawi wetu namba 1 haya madeni tunayodaiwa na Urusi na Iraq leo hii ni matokeo ya harakati zake za kutaka ujiko usio na manufaa.

At least umesema ukweli kwamba, alizisaidia Mozambique, South Africa, Namibia, Angola nk
kupata uhuru. kwa hiyo sio kweli kwamba hakufanya kitu, alizisaidia nchi nyingine za kiafrica
kupata uhuru.

Kikwete Amefanya nini kumsaidia Muislamu Mwenzake Libya.
Huu mnaouonyesha ndio wivu wa kiukweli sasa

 

[Taifa_Kwanza]

Viongozi wote waliopita Tanzania failure mkubwa zaidi ni Nyerere. Alipewa nchi kwa ubwete badala ya kuanza pilika za kufanya maendeleo ya nchi yake akaanza kujiweka bize na ukombozi wa Mozambique, South Africa, Namibia , Angola n.k he even went further akatupeleka hadi Uganda pale tukaweka rais. Kama hiyo haitoshi hadi pale Congo DRC akaweka mkono wake. Huku wananchi wake wanakufa njaa, wanavaa midabwada 'kaa chonjo saa mbaya'.Alisahau 'charity' inaanzia nyumbani leo tumejichokea nchi zote hizi wametupita masikini ya mungu.


Huyu mzee ndio alikuwa mchawi wetu namba 1 haya madeni tunayodaiwa na Urusi na Iraq leo hii ni matokeo ya harakati zake za kutaka ujiko usio na manufaa.

Well, umesema mwenyewe kwamba alizisaidia nchi nyingine za kiafrica kupata
uhuru, kwa hiyo sio kweli kwamba hakufanya kitu.

Kikwete Amefanya nini kumsaidia Muislamu Mwenzenu Libya.

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

Hahaaa, unanchekesha.

Compare ya Kikwete na ya nyerere nakuanzia machache tu hapa.

Nyerere Kilomita ngapi za barabara ya lami? Kikwete zaidi ya 10,000/= in 6 Years.

Nyerere Shule ngapi kwa miaka 23, hata 200 hazifiki? Kikwete zaidi ya 2000 in 6 Years.

Nyerere Wanafunzi wangapi wa vyuo vikuu in 23 years, total hawafiki 30,000? Kikwete zaidi ya 50,000 per year within 6 Years.

Nyerere minimum education primary school, Kikwete minimum education Secondary shool.

Nyerere foreign account bank balance when he quit, NIL, Kikwete Foreign account within 6 years, Good to import all we need for 6 Months (higher than any East African country).

Nyerere Failed economy less than 3% growth rate when he left, Kikwete successful economy ever in Tanzania 7% average growth rate (one of the fastest growing economies in the world.)

Unalo?

OMG!
I like the level of analysis and critical thinking going into it.Hongera dada.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

... Hizi ni takwimu, tuletee chanzo ili tuweze kuziamini, isije ikawa kama "I failed!Let us admit". Hata kama hizi takwimu ni za kweli, mafanikio ya awamu ya sasa ni mafanikio ya awamu zilizopita. Kwani Rais Kikwete kaanza from scratch? Kaja na Walimu, madaktari, wahandisi wake? Miradi mingi ya serikali ni muendelezo wa awamu moja hadi nyingine, so inawezekana kabisa unahesabu km za barabara hata zilie zilizoanza kujengwa na Mkapa. Pia kama unataka kumweka Rais Kikwete kwenye mizani, taja pia mapungufu yake so far-don't just sing songs of praise.

Unanchekesha kama yote hayo huyajui. Hao ma engineer wanazitengeneza barabara sasa hivi unafikiri ni waTanzania aliowaacha nyerere? Hata haya huoni? Hivi hamuoni ni kina nanai wanaotengeneza mabarabara? Kama wa Tanzania wapo basi undersupervision. Na kukosa ma engineer wakati wa nyerere sio sababu ya kukosa barabara.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Bukuku, nimepitia taratibu hayo ambayo umeyaita ni "academic" works. Na nimeelewa kinachosemwa vizuri sana. Na inafurahisha kuwa mtu ambaye wewe unamuita "dikteta" anaoneshwa katika mwanga wa sifa na shangwe labda kuliko Mwafrika mwingine yeyote. Dikteta Nyerere anasifwa na ukiondoa wewe na wachache wa siku hizi hakuna mtu yeyote kati ya hao uliowanukuu hapo amemtaja Nyerere kama Dikteta. Dikteta asiyejulikana na watu wake.

Tunaambiwa Nyerere ndiye aliyeweka mkazo katika hili la uvumilivu wa kidini na sifa hizo hapewi mtu mwingine yeyote.

The current president of the United Republic of Tanzania,Jakaya Kikwete, affirmed this in a speech he gave atBoston University (U.S.A.) on September 25, 2006 inwhich he said, “The political unity and religious tolerancethat we pride ourselves in did not come by accident. It isa product of deliberate action and the vision of leaders ofTanzania from the founding president, the late MwalimuJulius Nyerere, to the present…thanks to the remarkableforesight of our founding president…specific actions weretaken to engender tolerance in matters of faith andmanage potential cracks to our country”.

Kikwete ambaye leo hii amekuwa muumini kuwa Nyerere aliwakandamiza Waislamu na kuwa chini yake ndiko kulikuwepo udini (japo hasemi hivyo wazi lakini kwa ukimya wake na wa serikali yake anabariki) amekiri miaka miwili tu iilyopita maneno hayo. Na tunaambiwa Umoja wa Mataifa miaka kumi baada ya kifo chake ukampa heshima ya kuwa Shujaa wa Haki za Jamii.

October 2009, Nyerere was namedposthumously, "World Hero of Social Justice" by the UNGeneral Assembly

Katika legacies zake waandishi wetu wanabalance ukweli wa kihistoria juu ya Nyerere.

Ali Mazrui (a contemporary of Nyerere) anasema eloquently -

“Nyerere's policies of ujamaa amounted toa case of heroic failure. They were heroic becauseTanzania was one of the few African countries whichattempted to find its own route to development instead ofborrowing the ideologies of the West. But it was a failurebecause the economic experiment did not deliver thegoods of development. On the other hand, Nyerere'spolicies of nation-building amount to a case of unsungheroism. With wise and strong leadership, and withbrilliant policies of cultural integration, he took one of thepoorest countries in the world and made it a proud leaderin African affairs and an active member of the global
community. "

Mazrui hamuoni Nyerere kama Dikteta!

Mwandishi mwingine anasema,

a creative conceptualizer, a far-sighted pioneer, a selflessrole model, an almost dangerously courageous championof righteous campaigns in Africa and the Third World as awhole, a fearless confronter of nations and institutionsthat tried to interfere with Tanzania's self-determination, aunifier of a vast and diverse economy and people, and aman of the people” (Resnick, 1996). The Guardian, UK(15 October, 1999)

Ambacho nimependa ni hitimisho la hawa wasomi uliowaleta;

It is an unquestionable fact that we rightly deserve tovenerate Mwalimu Nyerere, the father of the Tanzaniannation whose inestimable contributions in varied fieldshas left his country and the entire mankind incalculablelegacy. Mwalimu as a person and a leader has outshinedin almost all that he was able to do. He proved to be aserious politician, meticulous leader, a profound
Christian, a writer and a Pan-Africanist who tirelessly strived to address people’s pressing problems

Kwamba Nyerere anaweza kupimwa kwa mafanikio na mapungufu yake halina shaka ni jukumu la kihistoria na msomi yeyote yule. Lakini kufikia hitimisho kuwa Nyerere alikuwa ni dikteta na kuwa alikuwa mbaya na hakufanikiwa ni kinyume na ushahidi wote uliopo kuhusu Nyerere. Bahati nzuri ni miongoni (yawezekana ni mtu pekee) katika Tanzania aliyewahi kuandikwa vya kutosha na ambaye legacy yake inaweza kuangaliwa kisomi na si kihisia. Hadi hivi sasa sijaona kazi yoyote ya Kisomi ambayo imeweka ushahidi wa Udikteta wa Nyerere; none kama vile hakuna ushahidi kuwa aliwahi kusema kuwa "I failed, lets admit it".

Hata maandishi mekundu ambayo umeyanukuu ambayo mwandishi anasema:

Earlier, when he stepped down in 1985, Nyerere haddeclared that, "although socialism has failed in Tanzania,I will remain a socialist because I believe socialism is thebest policy for poor countries like Tanzania"

Huyu naye hasemi maneno hayo Nyerere aliyatoa wapi.

Hakuna ushahidi wowote kuwa Nyerere alikuwa

a. Kiongozi mbaya
b. Dikteta
c. Hakujali wananchi
d. Alitumia vibaya madaraka yake
e. Alijinufaisha yeye na watu wake wa karibu

n.k

Najiuliza hivi watoto wa Mramba wanaweza kumuona Kikwete ni mtu mzuri kwao? Najiuliza kama watoto na familia ya Mgonja wanamuona Kikwete ni kiongozi mzuri? Najiuliza kama familia ya Kiula inamuona Mkapa kuwa ni kiongozi mzuri?

 

[regam]

Mtu mzima haombi samahani. Matendo ya nyerere kipindi cha kuanzia miaka ya 80 yanaonyesha aliadmit ameshindwa. Kwa wale mliokuwepo wakati wa vita ya nduli, na mwanzoni mwa mwaka 80 mtakubaliana na mimi kwamba nyerere aliadmit kushindwa. Inasemekana (sina source) altangaza kung'atuka mwaka 80 lakini akaombwa na wazee avumilie walau hadi 85 alipong'atuka rasmi.
Jambo jingine linaloonyesha wazi nyerere ali admit failure ni pale aliposhindwa kubadili mfumo wa uchumi. Tangu katikati ya miaka ya 70, nchi yetu ilikumbwa na hali mbaya ya uchumi. Kama mnakumbuka nchi yetu hadi miaka ya mwanzoni mwa mwaka 70 ilikuwa ni one of the major exporters wa food products lakini kuanzia miaka ya 75 ikawa inategemea misaada ya hisani ya chakula(kumbukeni unga wa yanga).
Hii yote inaonyesha nyerere aliadmit kushindwa kuiendesha nchi. Kwa mnaokumbuka vuguvugu za kuwa na mfumo wa vyama vingi ilikuwa ni requirement ya economy transformation pamoja na mambo ya privatisation.
Yapo mambo mengi tuu yanayoonyesha kuwa mwalimu aliadmit kushindwa mfano mwingine ni pale alipomshawishi lyatonga mrema kuanzisha nccr ili kukidhi matakwa ya wahisani ili tuweze kupata misaada, kitu ambacho yeye alishindwa kukiruhusu tangu katikati ya miaka ya 70.
Kama nilivyoanza, MTU MZIMA HAOMBI SAMAHANI.

 

[Peasant]

OMG!
I like the level of analysis and critical thinking going into it.Hongera dada.

....and she claims to be a 1982 graduate!! kwi kwi kwi kwi kwi kwi....LMAO!!

 

[Jasusi]

Mkuu, kuna nukuu za gazeti la Msemakweli toleo nambari 013 la Jumapili Juni 7-13, 1998 yenye kichwa cha habari,"Nyerere adai Ujamaa na Ukristo vimeshindwa" likinukuu mahojiano yaliyofanyika katika kipindi cha maswali na majibu katika television ya CNN.

Nyerere alisema... "Ujamaa umeshindwa kama vile Ukristo ulivyoshindwa. Ukristo ulianza yapata miaka 2000 iliyopita na kila Jumapili niendapo Kanisani nakuta watu bado wanahubiri. Na kwa kweli sina hakika kama kuna nchi hata moja tunayoweza kuiita taifa la Kikristo."
Hii inasadikiwa kuwa ni nukuu ya Marehemu Mwalim Julius Kambarage Nyerere.

Katika toleo hilo mwandishi wa Msemakweli akiripoti maoni ya Wakristo mbalimbali juu ya madai ya Nyerere. Wakristo wengi, wakiwemo Maprofesa na viongozi wa madhehebu mbalimbali ya Kikristo, walijitahidi sana kuutetea Ukristo kuwa haujashindwa bali Ujamaa ndio ulioshindwa peke yake. Moja ya sababu zilizotolewa ni kuwa Ujamaa umeshindwa kwa vile umetokana na mawazo ya mtu (Nyerere), wakati ukristo haujashindwa kwa sababu haukuanzishwa na mtu bali na Yesu.

Nimejaribu kulitafuta ilo gazeti mtandaoni bila ya mafanikio, labda wenzetu waishio Dar es salaam wanaweza kutusaidia kupata nakala ya ilo gazeti.

X-Paster,
Nyerere alikuwa mwanafalsafa. He could speak tongue in cheek. Hii ya kufananisha kushindwa kwa ujamaa na ukristo inaangukia kwenye ligi hiyo hiyo. Last time I looked Christianity was doing well.