Did Nyerere admit he was a "failure"? Some say "Yes he did"...

[Abba]

Wewe ndio kwanza ukatae kuwa haya sio maneno ya nyerere:Nyerere farewell speech in 1985: "I failed. Let's admit it."

FF let be assuared there is no text in this world that has been recorded that Nyerere admitted that he failed!.On his fare well tour abroad, specifically in UK at westminister and infront of group of admirer journalists he was asked and I quote "Mwalimu why have you choosen to leave now while the country and africa needs your leadership?". Nyerere said and I quote "What did not do for 22 years I can not do in 5 years!" Does this sound like a failure? Even the might Abraham Lincolin did not make America what it is today but he gave it a vision and a dream. Nyerere gave us too! This is a country which had many industries compared to other countries in the region including kenya! Morogoro was industrial town. Our per capital was much higher than all other east and central african countries combined. Do you think these just drop from makka?

Your altitudes makes you sink everyday! And if you ever think you can better your family, our ukoo and your jamii simply by putting the man from your jamii. Your in wrong side of history! Pole

 

[Nguruvi3]

Mzee Mwanakijiji;2114871
Najiuliza hivi watoto wa Mramba wanaweza kumuona Kikwete ni mtu mzuri kwao? Najiuliza kama watoto na familia ya Mgonja wanamuona Kikwete ni kiongozi mzuri? Najiuliza kama familia ya Kiula inamuona Mkapa kuwa ni kiongozi mzuri?

Watoto wa Thomas Zangira, Ed Barongo n.k.

Wale wanaosimamia hotuba ya 1985 tupeni siku, mahali na saa tutakwenda au kuomba hotuba hiyo kutoka kwa mzee Butiku ili tupate ukweli.
Kuchukua opinion za waandishi kutoka NY times na kuzifanya fact ni ututusa wa kiwango cha kimataifa.

Ninashangaa kuna mtu anasema kama yapo mazuri mbona hayaonekani? ah! sasa kama ameacha viwanda 400 mkauza mtaviona wapi, mbona UDSM ambayo hamkuuza ipo pale. Watu hawaoni taa wanazowasha ni jitihada za kujenga Mtera, Nyumba ya mungu, kidatu n.k tangu aondoke kuna chanzo gani cha umeme kimejengwa kama si kuuza Kiwira ya mwalimu.
Hivi hamuoni sisi kuishi kama watu wa taifa moja ni sehemu ya mafanikio na mambo aliyoyaacha n.k

Lakini la muhimu zaidi kuhusu Nyerere ni kuwa 10 yr baada ya kifo chake bado umma unamjadili iwe kwa mazuri au mabaya. Ali Hassan amefutika, Jomo Kenyatta, Ben Mkapa, Kaunda, Neto, Marchel, Senghor, Tolbert, Nandi, Gamal, Haille selasi n.k ni kama hawakuwepo.
Tena umma unaomjadili ni ule wa wasomi kama akina Wole, Shivji, walter, profesa wa international universities n.k yeye amekuwa reference kwasababu hakuna reference so far.
Nilishangaa mwananfunzi asiye mtanzania kuandika thesis ya political science kuhusu success and failure ya Nyerere. ! Sisi hatuwezi kuandika mazuri na mabaya yake tunachagua neno mistake na kuligeuza kuwa fail tunawalisha watoto wetu ii kuzifurahisha nafsi zetu.

 

[Peasant]

What did he succeeded in?

200 Years? too little, I hope forever, no one gets to see the likes of him and experience the torments we went thru again.

Faiza,
You've failed! Just admit it!

 

[Jasusi]

Mtu mzima haombi samahani. Matendo ya nyerere kipindi cha kuanzia miaka ya 80 yanaonyesha aliadmit ameshindwa. Kwa wale mliokuwepo wakati wa vita ya nduli, na mwanzoni mwa mwaka 80 mtakubaliana na mimi kwamba nyerere aliadmit kushindwa. Inasemekana (sina source) altangaza kung'atuka mwaka 80 lakini akaombwa na wazee avumilie walau hadi 85 alipong'atuka rasmi.
Jambo jingine linaloonyesha wazi nyerere ali admit failure ni pale aliposhindwa kubadili mfumo wa uchumi. Tangu katikati ya miaka ya 70, nchi yetu ilikumbwa na hali mbaya ya uchumi. Kama mnakumbuka nchi yetu hadi miaka ya mwanzoni mwa mwaka 70 ilikuwa ni one of the major exporters wa food products lakini kuanzia miaka ya 75 ikawa inategemea misaada ya hisani ya chakula(kumbukeni unga wa yanga).
Hii yote inaonyesha nyerere aliadmit kushindwa kuiendesha nchi. Kwa mnaokumbuka vuguvugu za kuwa na mfumo wa vyama vingi ilikuwa ni requirement ya economy transformation pamoja na mambo ya privatisation.
Yapo mambo mengi tuu yanayoonyesha kuwa mwalimu aliadmit kushindwa mfano mwingine ni pale alipomshawishi lyatonga mrema kuanzisha nccr ili kukidhi matakwa ya wahisani ili tuweze kupata misaada, kitu ambacho yeye alishindwa kukiruhusu tangu katikati ya miaka ya 70.
Kama nilivyoanza, MTU MZIMA HAOMBI SAMAHANI.

Regam,
That is not the point. Kushindwa kwa Nyerere is in the eye of the beholder na kila mtu yuko entitled to their opinion. Our bone of contention in this debate is Faiza's claim that Nyerere said "I have failed. Let us admit it." He never uttered such words. That is what we are debating here.

 

[Peasant]

Watoto wa Thomas Zangira, Ed Barongo n.k.

Wale wanaosimamia hotuba ya 1985 tupeni siku, mahali na saa tutakwenda au kuomba hotuba hiyo kutoka kwa mzee Butiku ili tupate ukweli.Kuchukua opinion za waandishi kutoka NY times na kuzifanya fact ni ututusa wa kiwango cha kimataifa.

Ninashangaa kuna mtu anasema kama yapo mazuri mbona hayaonekani? ah! sasa kama ameacha viwanda 400 mkauza mtaviona wapi, mbona UDSM ambayo hamkuuza ipo pale. Watu hawaoni taa wanazowasha ni jitihada za kujenga Mtera, Nyumba ya mungu, kidatu n.k tangu aondoke kuna chanzo gani cha umeme kimejengwa kama si kuuza Kiwira ya mwalimu.
Hivi hamuoni sisi kuishi kama watu wa taifa moja ni sehemu ya mafanikio na mambo aliyoyaacha n.k

Lakini la muhimu zaidi kuhusu Nyerere ni kuwa 10 yr baada ya kifo chake bado umma unamjadili iwe kwa mazuri au mabaya. Ali Hassan amefutika, Jomo Kenyatta, Ben Mkapa, Kaunda, Neto, Marchel, Senghor, Tolbert, Nandi, Gamal, Haille selasi n.k ni kama hawakuwepo.
Tena umma unaomjadili ni ule wa wasomi kama akina Wole, Shivji, walter, profesa wa international universities n.k yeye amekuwa reference kwasababu hakuna reference so far.
Nilishangaa mwananfunzi asiye mtanzania kuandika thesis ya political science kuhusu success and failure ya Nyerere. ! Sisi hatuwezi kuandika mazuri na mabaya yake tunachagua neno mistake na kuligeuza kuwa fail tunawalisha watoto wetu ii kuzifurahisha nafsi zetu.

Mkuu kama ni hiyo hotuba ya farewell 1985 mbona Mwanakijiji alishaweka hapa muda mrefu, angalia page ya pili post #21.

 

[AshaDii]

Dah!! Huu uzi umenisikitisha na kunidhihirishia kua sasa kweli uzalendo wa sisi wananchi haupo.. Tanzania tupo wakati mgumu na complicated kisiasa like never before (achana na mambo ya kugombea uhuru); Nina maana ugumu in the sense kua wale ambao wamebahatika kua wenye utafakari , uwezo wa kupambua mambo na pia kuwakilisha walau basi ifanywe hivyo kwa kuangalia tuliko toka, kujifunza makosa yetu and learn from them... kwa kufanya hivyo yaani kuthamini tuliko toka na akina nani waliwezesha kwa njia yoyote ile ndo itafanya sisi na vizazi vijavyo viwe bora zaidi..

Tatizo kwa sisi wa Tanzania ni wavivu saana wa kusoma litratures, kusoma biographies and hata anaesoma yuko soo very critical as if s/he would have done better… Mtu anaongea na kudefend issues alizopokea katika kinywa cha mtu ambae yuko prejudge or even not... The late Mwalim Nyerere (may he rest in peace) was a great man; na sisi Watanzania kutoheshimu nguvu zake na kuapppreciate his efforts then... yes we don't know or we do not treasure or heritages in a level headed mind.. ideas zake ingawa misunderstood by some critics ni sawa na kusema huelewi what is best for your nation. The man knew in advance jinsi Tanzania itakua leo as much as he is dead.. Madeni, utegemezi wa kupindukia, kuchakachulika kwa mwananchi wa kawaida ... and a lot more..

Mfano mdogo tu kwa kutolea but mkubwa in the results ni lugha ya Kiswahili.. succeeding in those times of difficulty with impossible environments and circumstance he was able to Unite this nation in one, with focus, determination, Vision so powerful for Tanzanians (ambayo mpka leo personally sijaona nani anaweza prove uzalendo…

Viongozi wetu woote sasa hivi awe (MAGAMBA au MAGAMBALESS) wanapiga/pigiana propaganda tu… Woote wanasiasa tu.. Kundi moja maarufu kwa kujirusha na kuzima moto (ambao inaelekea kuwashinda..) kundi linguine maarufu kwa kuchokoa na kupiga mbizi wabadili nafasi (ambao possibility kubwa ya kufanikiwa kupo..) Naamini the only changes zitatokea kwa Mtanzania wa kawaida Chama kikibadilika ni roho zao kupoa kwa to ile kwamba wahusika wa Magamba woote watapata cha moto!!! Whether watabadilisha maisha… that is another story..

Mwl Nyerere is a man a human being ambaye pia anaruhusiwa kufanya mistakes… anaweza akawa hakua perfect but he was the best in doing what was best for his country he loved as much as it was with strain.. Na kwa attitude na nidham ya Watanzani at that time what he did was rite kwa mda ule (my stand!! )

@FAIZAFOXY (Presumably my alter self&#8230😉

Nimeshangaa saana… I have noticed you are CCM damu… what is wrong or what went wrong??? I am not sure if he really admitted to failure but does it matter?? REALLY… He failed unasema… The man is dead… kuna haja, Why don't we start na viongozi wetu ambao wame faili mpaka kila Mtanzania acknowledges that… I believe right now Nyerere is turning in his grave right now the way the issue of Mapacha watatu is being treated!

From hii Link umetoa..

​

Julius Kambarage Nyerere (April 13 1922 - October 14 1999), also known as Mwalimu (teacher), was President of Tanzania from 1964 to 1985, though he was still influential in politics until his death in 1999 because of his popularity. He is remembered as an unusually honest leader, especially for Africa, and for helping refugees. When his attempt at using his socialist ideas of Ujamaa failed , he said, "I failed. Let's admit it." He was also responsible for the overthrow of the murderous Idi Amin regime in Uganda.

​

Hii evidence umetoa… source ni WIKIPEDIA nikitaka ku edit hata mimi naweza but ilo si la muhimu.. kuna positive points katika hio paragraph kuliko hata negative… Hivi what explains the habit of a person – all humans have a positive and negative side bu we define someone with what runs over the other..

POSITIVE

• Was Influencial in politics until his death as a result of his popularity..
• He is remembered as being a honest leader.. especially for Africa…
• He is remembered in helping refugees…
• He was responsible for the overthrow of the Iddi Amin regime in Uganda (a discussion to date to its necessity)

All those positive and you conclude with a failure, a failure in a small nation where it was still young and fragile just from independence… expecting to succed where as there was sharks like US??

 

[Raia Fulani]

Naona watu wanakuziana majina tu humu. Hoja kiukweli haina mashiko na nyie mnatokwa mapovu kujadili?

 

[Percival]

Nyerere aling'atuka baada ya nchi kumshinda. Kulikuwa na majaribio ya kumpinua mara kadhaa wa kadhaa.

Nyerere hakuanzisha mfumo wa vyama vingi, bali yeye na serikali yake ya Tanu wakishirikiana na afro Shirazi Party ndio waliopiga marufuku vyama vya upinzani, nadhani ilikuwa mwaka 64.

Nakubaliana na wewe kua Nyerere aliondoka baada ya nchi kwenda mrama na hakuwa tena na njia ya kurekebisha mambo. Alikua na tatizo kuwa kubadilisha muongozo ni aibu au atageuka jiwe

Kuhusu vyama vingi wewe umerudi sana nyuma 1964 mimi nazungumzia pale alipong'atuka 1985 kama sikosei ndipo alipo pendekeza kuruhusiwa vyama vingine na pia kuweka kikomo cha vipindi viwili kwa rais kukaa madarakani.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Ninashangaa kuna mtu anasema kama yapo mazuri mbona hayaonekani? ah! sasa kama ameacha viwanda 400 mkauza mtaviona wapi,

Nguruvi!!

Swali lako ni jepesi, rahisi, na lisilo na maneno mengi lakini limebeba ukubwa mkubwa sana na kina.

Tulikuwa na viwanda vya nguo - Mwatex, Mutex, Urafiki n.k - wameviua kwa kuleta mitumba leo wanaenda kuchapsha kanga za kampeni China! - wataona wapi mazuri ya Nyerere?

Tulikuwa na viwanda vya zana za kilimo (I hope bado ila Plau iko juu pale) -

Tulikuwa na kiwanda cha baskeli za Swala (kwa wasiojua ilikwua na alama ya mnyama swala, zilitengenezwa Bongo - nakumbuka tulikuwa tunazikodi pale Tanga enzi hizoooo!)

Tulikuwa na viwanda vya viatu tunaita Bora - tulivivaa wengine kwa fahari

Tulikuwa na kampuni ya Maziwa - na maziwa yake kwenye makatoni yale ya kijani na nyeupe..!!

Tulikuwa na Kiwanda cha Chai!

Tulikuwa na kampuni ya Radio (siyo kuuza, kutengeneza) iliitwa National pamoja na ya betri ya National! ya kijani na nyeupe!

Tulikuwa na kampuni ya ndege iliyokuwa inaruka hadi Uingereza huko kwa fahari (unaangalia ubavuni kama unapanda "Serengeti" chini ya kina Marehemu Kapt. Mazula!)

Tulikuwa na treni ya kisasa na huduma nzuri ya Tazara (ukikaa first class kwenye ile express hadi unajisahau!) hata reli ya kati yakaingizwa mabehewa mapya!

Dar-es-Salaam kulikuwepo na kampuni ya mass transportaion yanaitwa UDA (maikarusi na haya yale mafupi);

Meli ya Mv. Bukoba, MV. Victoria zote zilikuja wakati wa Nyerere kurahisisha usafiri, bandari ya Dar, Mtwara na Tanga zikapanuliwa,

Wakoloni walituachia madaktari 2 na wahandishi 12 tu wazalendo, Nyerere akaweka sera ya elimu ya bure kusomesha mamia ya vijana ndani ya miaka michache tu tukaanza kupata wasomi wa kada mbalimbali, vyuo vya ualimu vikajengwa, mahospitali yakajengwa (Mbeya, Sekou Toure Mwanza) n.k Sijazungumzia Vyuo vya Ufundi (Tanga Tech, Arusha Tech, Mbeya Tech) kuchukua vijana ambao wangeweza kuwa katika kada ya ufundi (watoto wa kike na wa kiume wakachukuliwa)

Ukimaliza sekondari kidato cha nne unajaza uchaguzi wa wapi unataka kwenda kutegemeana na academic perfomance yako - tena kwa vipaumbele, walioenda ualimu walienda, walioenda A level walienda n.k hakukuwa na mashaka kama ukifaulu kitafanyika nini? Hadi jeshi na polisi iliwezekana kuapply moja kwa moja toka shuleni.

Naweza kuendelea kuhusu huyu dikteta Nyerere alivyoiacha nchi yake tupu!

Hakuwahi kuonesha ubaguzi wowote wa rangi au wa dini - kiongozi pekee ambaye toka mwanzo hakuwa na tatizo na kuwa na multi -race government. Jaji Georges, Gen. Walden, Afande Singh, Al Noor Kassum na wengine waliweza kuitumikia nchi yao pasipo tatizo lolote. Leo hii nafasi zote kubwa zimeshikiliwa na watu weusi kana kwamba ni wao pekee wana urithi wa Tanzania. Hata Unaibu Katibu hakuna minority represented lakini hawa hawa wakaona fahari kweli kwa Obama kushinda Urais au Powell alipokuwa mkuu wa Majeshi kule USA! Utaona hata upinzani wa leo haurecruit from the minority groups ya Tanzania! Serikali ndio kabisa... !

Sijazungumzia mbuga na maliasili zetu jinsi ambavyo zililindwa wakati wa Nyerere na sijagusia madini n.k


Wanasema Nyerere aliacha nchi ina shambles.. vyote hivyo hapo juu vimetoweka au vinakaribia kutoweka! urithi wetu unaporwa na historia yetu inafutwa halafu wanadiriki kusimama kutuuliza "alivyoviacha viko wapi"?

Well.. wanataka kuivunja hadi Tanzania ili waweze kusema "Tanzania ipi?"!

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Nakubaliana na wewe kua Nyerere aliondoka baada ya nchi kwenda mrama na hakuwa tena na njia ya kurekebisha mambo. Alikua na tatizo kuwa kubadilisha muongozo ni aibu au atageuka jiwe

Kuhusu vyama vingi wewe umerudi sana nyuma 1964 mimi nazungumzia pale alipong'atuka 1985 kama sikosei ndipo alipo pendekeza kuruhusiwa vyama vingine na pia kuweka kikomo cha vipindi viwili kwa rais kukaa madarakani.

Asilimia 80 ya walioulizwa kwenye kura ya maoni walitaka kuendelea na mfumo wa chama kimoja, CCM ilijua wanachotaka watu wengi. Kwanini iliamua kuruhusu vyama vingi wakati the majority walitaka chama kimoja? Nyerere alishiriki vipi katika mchakato wa kurudi kwa vyama vingi?

 

[Kahinda]

Juu huko umekubali kwa kusema "yeah right" hapa unajidai "it ain't gonna happen", ikatea basi si hii hapa, sema kuwa hajasema nyerere maneno haya:Nyerere farewell speech in 1985: "I failed. Let's admit it."

Faiza
Kama sikosei nadhani hukumwelewa mkjj, alikutega uonekane mpuuzi kwani huna jinsi unayoweza kudhibitisha usemi huo.
Jifunze kukubali. Na nadhani msemo huo unakurudia mwenyewe kwamba ume Fail kutudhibitishia huo usemi wako.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

FF let be assuared there is no text in this world that has been recorded that Nyerere admitted that he failed!.On his fare well tour abroad, specifically in UK at westminister and infront of group of admirer journalists he was asked and I quote "Mwalimu why have you choosen to leave now while the country and africa needs your leadership?". Nyerere said and I quote "What did not do for 22 years I can not do in 5 years!" Does this sound like a failure? Even the might Abraham Lincolin did not make America what it is today but he gave it a vision and a dream. Nyerere gave us too! This is a country which had many industries compared to other countries in the region including kenya! Morogoro was industrial town. Our per capital was much higher than all other east and central african countries combined. Do you think these just drop from makka?Your altitudes makes you sink everyday! And if you ever think you can better your family, our ukoo and your jamii simply by putting the man from your jamii. Your in wrong side of history! Pole

Does that sound like "I won" to you?

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Faiza Kama sikosei nadhani hukumwelewa mkjj, alikutega uonekane mpuuzi kwani huna jinsi unayoweza kudhibitisha usemi huo.Jifunze kukubali. Na nadhani msemo huo unakurudia mwenyewe kwamba ume Fail kutudhibitishia huo usemi wako.

Hana ujanja wa kuntega mimi atawatega wajinga wenzake. Nimeweka bandiko huko nyuma watu different na from differe sources zikisema nyerere ka admit ku fail. Mpaka wa mwisho hapo juu amem quote nyerere akiaga westminter kwa kusema "nilioshindwa" kuyafanya kwa miaka ishirini ntayaweza kwa miaka mitano? Hiyo yote hamuoni? ndio maana nikasema ni thumum bukmun.

 

[TIMING]

Asilimia 80 ya walioulizwa kwenye kura ya maoni walitaka kuendelea na mfumo wa chama kimoja, CCM ilijua wanachotaka watu wengi. Kwanini iliamua kuruhusu vyama vingi wakati the majority walitaka chama kimoja? Nyerere alishiriki vipi katika mchakato wa kurudi kwa vyama vingi?

MMM, kuna move analeta JK na washauri wake wachache wanaotaka ku-rewrite history for their boo' benefit, dont go there.... you will just waste your time, they cant even tell why a country with resources is poor and a country without resources is poor too

ITS LIKE MOJA AMEKUA WA PILI KUTOKA MWISHO ANAJITETEA AT LEAST YEYE SI WA MWISHO

It is a movement na juzi mistakenly au ignorantly imeongelewa holland.... WHAT A HIC!!

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Wakati wote wa nyerere tumeona kila kitu kikifa hata viwanda alivyotaifisha, mashamba aliyotaifisha yakawa mapori, mashule yakadidimia, mabarabara yakafa, tulikuwa tukienda Mwanza na Tanganyika bus kupitia njia ya kati, ikafa kabisa mpaka inabidi uzunguke Kenya. Halafu anaposema kashindwa nyie mkatae. Makubwa haya.Nini alichokiweza?

 

[TITAN]

@Faiza foxy: naona unaleta mipasho kwy JF jaribu kutumia lugha ya kuelimishana usidhani mipasho ndiyo solution!! I thing umekuwa trained special kwa kuvuruga mijadala apa JF, hii siyo face book mama!!! (nakuita mama kwa ajili ya jina lako la mwanzo), waambie waliokutuma wamechemsha utaangukia pua apa. JF most ni full vichwa!!!!

 

[FaizaFoxy]

MMM, kuna move analeta JK na washauri wake wachache wapumbavu wanaotaka ku-rewrite history for their boo' benefit, do go there.... you will just waste your time, they cant even tell why a country with resources is poor and a country without resources is poor tooITS LIKE MOJA AMEKUA WA PILI KUTOKA MWISHO ANAJITETEA AT LEAST YEYE SI WA MWISHOIt is a movement na juzi mistakenly au ignorantly imeongelewa holland.... WHAT A HIC!!

Wakati wa nyerere Tanzania siku zote ilikuwa katika nchi tatu za mwisho kwa umaskini duniani. Kama sio kushindwa huko nini?

 

[FaizaFoxy]

@Faiza foxy: naona unaleta mipasho kwy JF jaribu kutumia lugha ya kuelimishana usidhani mipasho ndiyo solution!! I thing umekuwa trained special kwa kuvuruga mijadala apa JF, hii siyo face book mama!!! (nakuita mama kwa ajili ya jina lako la mwanzo), waambie waliokutuma wamechemsha utaangukia pua apa. JF most ni full vichwa!!!!

Unanchekesha, kichwa ni nani mkjj? khaa angekuwa kichwa si tungeona anaongoza nchi. Mtu ambae anashinda JF akibishana na FF, ndio kichwa hicho? Khaa, mie niko kwangu mustareh. Eti kichwa? Faiza cheka wee.

 

[Revolutionary]

Mwanakijiji na wenzako kweli mmeishiwa kwa namna mnavyojibizana na huyu ndugu yake Anne Makinda!

 

[chipanga]

Wakati wote wa nyerere tumeona kila kitu kikifa hata viwanda alivyotaifisha, mashamba aliyotaifisha yakawa mapori, mashule yakadidimia, mabarabara yakafa, tulikuwa tukienda Mwanza na Tanganyika bus kupitia njia ya kati, ikafa kabisa mpaka inabidi uzunguke Kenya. Halafu anaposema kashindwa nyie mkatae. Makubwa haya.Nini alichokiweza?

we dada siyo mzima upstairz, nisamehe kwa conclusion yangu.