Zimbabwe: The turmoil, reconciliation, and the future!

[JokaKuu]

Dua,
Tongogara died in a car crash, and you are talking about a plane!! Tongogara died before Zimbabwe's independence, Mugabe did not have any plane at that time.

 

[Dua]

jokaKuu

You can't read what I wrote?

 

[JokaKuu]

Dua,
oops!! "wrong number." i am sorry on that one. you were talking about Samora while i thought you were still on Mugabe. Nevertheless, so many credible sources have not implicated Mugabe on Tongogara's death. It has become a norm these days to throw every dirt on Mugabe.

 

[Kichuguu]

Dua,
This article which quotes Edgar Tekere who was ZANU secretary gen at the time of Zimbabwes independence disputes what you just posted. Tekere is a staunch critic of Mugabe, but he could not implicate Mugabe in Tongogara's death. Please read this.....



Kuhusu Mugabe kuwa TASA, mbona inaeleweka kwamba he lost the son he had with Sally in Ghana? Majuzi tu amekwenda kuhani kwenye kaburi la marehemu mwanawe. Zaidi Mugabe na Mama Grace wana watoto wawili.

(1) Tekere hawezi kusema madhambi ya Mugabe kuhusu kifo cha Josiah Tongogara kwa sababu na yeye mwenyewe alihusika akiwa upande wa Mugabe wakati huo. Josiah alikuwa more charismatic and pragmatic kuliko Mugabe na ndiye alikuwa anatarajiwa kuchukua uongozi wa nchi hasa kwa vile ndiye aliyekuwa amenongza mapambano ya ukombozi baada ya Chitepo kuuwawa (ingawa inasemekekana pia kuwa Josiah alihusika kwenye kifo cha Chitepo). Ule mkutano wa Lancaster house ulifikia makubalianao ya uhuru kutokana na maamuzi yaliyofanywa na Josiah zaidi ya maamuzi yaliyotolewa na Mugabe ambaye kati ya mambo mengine alikuwa hataki serikali ya mseto na ZAPU ambayo ingemfanya agawane madaraka na Joshua Nkomo. Kinyume na msimamo wa Mugabe, Tongogara alikuwa anasema waziwazi kuwa serikali ya mseto ndiyo ilikuwa inatakiwa Zimbabwe kwa vile vyama vote vilipigana vita ya Ukombozi. Washona hawa wa ZANU walilishirikiana kumuua Tongogara kusudi ili baadaye wasilazimike kuunda serikali ya mseto na ZAPU ya Wandebele kama vile Josiah alivyokuwa anataka. kukorofishana kwake na Mugabe kunatokana na Mugabe kumnyika slice ya madarak kwa vile alimfukuza kutoka serikalini baada ya muda mfupi tu tangu uhuru.

(2) Kuhusu utasa wa Mugabe hiyo siyo siri. Kabla hajafungwa huyu bwana hakuwa tasa na alikuwa amezaa mtoto mmoja wa kiume (Nhamodzenyika robert Mugabe) na yule mke wake wa kwanza; huyu mtoto alifariki kutokana na Malaria ya ubonngo wakati Mugabe amefungwa. Wakati akiwa jela, bwana Mugabe alihasiwa na askari wa Smith na ni kati ya mambo yaliyowauma sana wazimbabwe kuwa smith anaweza kumfanyia hivyo kiongozi wao. Kuanzia hapo yeye hawezi kuzaa; watoto wawili alio nao ni wa ku-adopt. Alimwoa Grace akiwa na watoto aliokuwa ameza na watu wengine. Inasemekana kuwa huyu dada Grace huwa analiwa majambozi na jamaa mbalimbali tu inategema unawmngia kwa kona ipi. huwa akiwa na mpango wa kuliwa vitu anapanga safari kwenda nchi za nje na mlaji wake. List ya walaji wake inayojulikana waziwazi ni kama vile Bwana Peter Pamire, ambaye ndiye anayesemekana kuwa baba halisi wa mtoto wa kwanza wa Mugabe (Bona, Robert Peter Jr), James Makamba, na Winston Changaira ambaye inasemekana ndiye baba halisi wa mtoto wa pili wa Mugabe (Bellarmine Chatunga).

 

[Game Theory]

DrWHO

I wrote the above to show you that I have up to date information about Zimbabwe but you do not understand. Only a narrow minded person won't understand.

fair enough

I don't need to do any research about Zimbabwe as I told you before; I know what is happening there right now and not only that we have ongoing projects which make me closer to what is happening on the ground. I don't support leaders who support western interests as you wish nor did I support a leader like Mugabe for his selfish end

neither do i

Aren't you the one who was advocating freedom of speech using Noam Chomsky's quotation etc.? What a hypocrite you are. Now you have changed because freedom of speech for Zimbabweans is nothing compared to your wishes and arguments. 3 million Zimbabweans fled the country because of a dictator what proof do you want?

People will always migrate regardless but lets face it in one of those links you posted there was a BBC report which claimed that 7 million are starving in Zimbabwe! come on lets be real here, Anyone who believes any of the propaganda that 7 million Zimbabweans are facing starvation needs to wake up! 7 million is half the population, 1 in 2! Starvation on that scale is unprecedented even in Ethiopia. Starvation on that scale is biblical and yet whenever you see these 'Zimbabweans' on BBC moaning about food shortages or torture they look suspisciously healthy. If there were really half of Zimbabweans starving then do you not think that they would have lots of footage of emaciated people? The people 'protesting' look healthier than some of my friends in UK!

What debate do you want? I'm beginning to wonder of your doctorate may be we should start debating about your integrity. What has the war in Iraq got to do with Zimbabwe? In actual fact I do praise people of Zimbabwe for their maturity to fight a monstrous dictator. I just gave you little information about Zimbabwe and I told you if surely you want to debate Zimbabwe you better go on their forum because that is where people can counter your nonsense issues. I know the truth about Zimbabwe and that is a fact.[/QUOTE]

Funny how Mugabe's human rights record was only an issue when he started land reform. What an insult to think that the west even gives a monkeys about the supposed loss of black life when the only time they howl about it is when their own interests are threatened. It's easy to harp on about so called human rights abuses in Zim as if it's on some Nazi scale. It's not. Even Amnesty International cannot make a good case about Zimbabwe as the UN a few years back stated that Zim 'had no case to answer'. How can anyone take seriously someone's account of 'having to flee' for their political beliefs when there are members of the opposition living freely AND knocking on doors campaiging in Zimbabwe? What about the loss of black life in custody in UK and USA prisons? Lets lay all these human rights abuses at the door of Blair and Bush as people are doing with Mugabe.

Regardless of Mugabe's well documented 'sins', when African history is written by real Africans he will be judged as a hero. If you think I'm lying just consider Winston Churchill and all he did for the British people during wartime. Apparently he was also responsible for having the Kurds gassed. Not just Hitler doing the gassing eh?

I ask you a simple question why didn't Tanzania sent troops to fight in Congo you never answered, and again I gave you an example of Mugabe using USD 1.2 million for his birth day, you never responded and you talk about a debate, what debate?

Well,i did not want to answer that question as it was not related to the land reforms in Zimabbwe but if you want my my short answer on why Tanzania did not go to fight in Congo then its as follows:

-We did not have a reason to invade that country as we were under no threat from the Congolese army

-It's was and still is not Tanzania's foreign policy to invade other countries unless we were inivaded

-Its was not in Tanzania's national interest to do so

-We are not proponents of illegal military adventures


No I do not condone $1.2 for his birthday party and neither do i condone Ghana Spending $50 million to celebrate their independence or simply Tanzania spending so much for its Presidents Jet

 

[Dua]

DrWHO

People will always migrate regardless but lets face it in one of those links you posted there was a BBC report which claimed that 7 million are starving in Zimbabwe! come on lets be real here, Anyone who believes any of the propaganda that 7 million Zimbabweans are facing starvation needs to wake up! 7 million is half the population, 1 in 2! Starvation on that scale is unprecedented even in Ethiopia. Starvation on that scale is biblical and yet whenever you see these 'Zimbabweans' on BBC moaning about food shortages or torture they look suspisciously healthy. If there were really half of Zimbabweans starving then do you not think that they would have lots of footage of emaciated people? The people 'protesting' look healthier than some of my friends in UK!

Zimbabwe population is ABOUT 12 MILLION, inflation - official figure is about 1600%, where on earth did you hear or heard this type of inflation? Prices are changing every hour or minutes, everybody is striking and complaining. people are leaving and the figure is approx. 3 million, South Africa government has a special train everyday to deport Zimbabwens but they come back the next day because there is no food in the country. You que for everything let alone fresh air. Those who visited there can't believe what they hear - the country has changed to a police state. World Food Organisation is organising food aid for that country and those who do not support Mugabe might not get any food.

Funny how Mugabe's human rights record was only an issue when he started land reform. What an insult to think that the west even gives a monkeys about the supposed loss of black life when the only time they howl about it is when their own interests are threatened. It's easy to harp on about so called human rights abuses in Zim as if it's on some Nazi scale. It's not. Even Amnesty International cannot make a good case about Zimbabwe as the UN a few years back stated that Zim 'had no case to answer'. How can anyone take seriously someone's account of 'having to flee' for their political beliefs when there are members of the opposition living freely AND knocking on doors campaiging in Zimbabwe? What about the loss of black life in custody in UK and USA prisons? Lets lay all these human rights abuses at the door of Blair and Bush as people are doing with Mugabe.

Regardless of Mugabe's well documented 'sins', when African history is written by real Africans he will be judged as a hero. If you think I'm lying just consider Winston Churchill and all he did for the British people during wartime. Apparently he was also responsible for having the Kurds gassed. Not just Hitler doing the gassing eh?

Mugabe human rights record was known by so many people in Zimbabwe but unfortunately no one listened to them, but now the truth is coming up. How can you say the opposition is living freely when we saw Morgan being mauled and butchered by Mugabe's thugs? It was there for the whole world to see, go and ask how many cases Amnesty International have about Zimbabwe, you will be surprised. He torched black peoples huts and a lot of bad things yet SADC and the rest of the world kept quite although mama Tibaijuka went there on UN ticket to investigate, if you recall when she visited Tafara she was handed a crying baby who hasn't eaten and she asked where was the mother to feed the baby - the reply came the mother was nowhere to be seen and on top of that there was no food. Ones wrong doesn't make another right. If you have beef on Blair or Bush well and good but I will not support a dictator like Mugabe. (Only people who hasn't seen the suffering of Zimbabweans) Botswana is closing its Harare Embassy who will be next?

Well,i did not want to answer that question as it was not related to the land reforms in Zimbabwe but if you want my my short answer on why Tanzania did not go to fight in Congo then its as follows:............................................

That was just to show you that there was a disagreement on the whole mission in Congo among SADC members, and not only Tanzania refused to send troops South Afrika, Botswana, Zambia, Mozambique etc. A president who spends well over USD 1.2 million when poor and suffering citizens do not have anything to eat. ITS A SAD STORY BUT WE SHOULD START TO CONDEM OUR OWN LEADERS WHO FAIL US
Nitaendelea kurusha madongo sio kwa Mugabe pekee hata kwa CCM na miungu watu wake - Mimi sichagui ukiwa fisadi sijali una ngozi gani lakini my priority ni kwa Tanzania first.

 

[Dua]

Stevenson ejected from Parliament over frequency jamming

zimbabwejournalists.com

1st Mar 2007 01:31 GMT

By a Correspondent

HARARE - Trudy Stevenson, the Member of Parliament for Harare North, was
ejected from Parliament yesterday for attempting to defend the freedom of
the airwaves in Zimbabwe after she heckled a deputy minister in the
150-member House on the issue.

Stevenson was responding to an answer given by information deputy minister,
Bright Matonga, on why the Zimbabwe government is jamming independent radio
stations such as SW Radioafrica, Studio 7 and Radio Voice of the People that
operate from the United Kingdom, the United States and the Netherlands
respectively.

Matonga, who is currently implicated in a corruption trial in the matter of
a ZUPCO bus tender while he was the chief executive officer of ZUPCO, had
been asked to clarify the government's position on independent radio
stations and why the government was using ruthless means to ensure listeners
were deprived of news.

The question was not on the order paper.

Matonga gloated he was glad that the opposition MDC had noted his government
had the power to jam broadcasts of "propaganda" against the State from
outside the country and confirmed they indeed were jamming those broadcasts.

He said he was also pleased that listeners, mainly those in the rural areas
that do not even receive the local FM stations were no longer receiving the
independent radio station broadcasts as their frequencies were being
disturbed by government agents.

A desk within the Central Intelligence Organisation (CIO) has been set up to
deal specifically with the jamming of the three radio stations' frequencies.

Matonga told Parliament the Zimbabwe government was right to block the radio
stations from reaching people in Zimbabwe, adding the UK did not receive
broadcasts from foreign countries.

"We cannot allow foreigners to invade our airwaves without our authority. We
will continue to do it. We need to protect our sovereignty. If you go to
England you will not receive any foreign radio station," said Matonga.

At this, Stevenson heckled Matonga saying loudly that his statement was
incorrect. To the contrary, the UK received thousands of foreign stations
broadcasting into the country everyday.

Many more heckles were exchanged across the floor, forcing acting Speaker,
Kumbirai Kangai, to order Stevenson out of the chamber.

The Zimbabwe government has since last year been jamming independent radio
stations that broadcast into the country through equipment sourced from
China resulting in many failing to receive the stations on their radios.

The government has also gone out of its way to confiscate radios donated to
rural communities and teachers in particular saying they are being used as
agents for regime change by those donating them.

This has forced broadcasters such as SW Radio Africa to come up with
innovative ways through which to send news back to listeners in Zimbabwe.
The London-based stations is now sending daily text messages to people in
Zimbabwe to feed them on news about their country.

No freedom of speach!

 

[Game Theory]

Does anyone wonder why the Zimbabwe govt would even feel a need to clamp down on opposition to Mugabe? For several years ‘opposition’ to Mugabe has not been of the democratic nature you would expect in the UK.


Did David Cameron ever talk about marching on No.10 Downing Street and forcibly removing Blair from power? Did David Cameron fall victim to a ‘set up’ where he discussed assassinating Tony Blair? Did members of the Conservatives talk about having people ready for ‘mass actions’? even CHADEMA and CUF have never attempted to do that !

Any security crisis in Zimbabwe has come from the behaviour of MDC. Any brief glance at African recent history will tell you that when an opposition party is financed by western power then anything from assassination to coup attempt to civil war will follow. That is the security threat to Zimbabwe. The sickest thing is that MDC do not even represent popular feeling or a majority in Zimbabwe. If they had the people behind them for real then they would not even require one penny from WHITEHALL here in London. That is fact. When people have had enough they take action. There are recent examples from Europe if any of you were thinking that the French revolution was a long time ago

You also mentioned issues relating to civil liberties (human rights) well,Mr Dua Fact is MDC from their moment of inception have behaved like terrorists. The armed forces and police have treated them as such. One only has to look at how the IRA were originally treated by UK (shoot to kill policy was once in place) and the usa with its ridiculous ‘illegal combatants’ in Guantanamo Bay. A state will treat terrorists as a threat to the state and as such civil liberties will be affected.

 

[Dua]

DrWHO

Are you aware that Morgan was followed to his offices (ZCTU) on the 7th floor by Mugabe thugs early in 1990's in order to force him jump from the 7th floor? Are you aware that RASHIWE Guza (not very sure of the spelling) disappeared from Zimbabwe after been taken by Mugabe's CIO's? There are a lot of facts about the whole administration from this leader. Anyway his time is up and soon or later you will know the truth. THE TRUTH WILL NEVER CHANGE. An MP is thrown out of parliament and you say they act as terrorists, anyway God bless you. (May be Ken Livingstone was once treated the same way as the Harare mayor by the police)

BTW YOU TALKED ABOUT ZIMBABWE DEMONSTRATORS WHO LOOKED WELL FED, THOSE DEMONSTRATIONS WERE IN LONDON AND SOUTH AFRICA. YOU CAN'T DEMONSTRATE OR STAY IN GROUP OF FOUR IN ZIMBABWE.

ANYWAY BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT. I WILL BE BETTER OFF PUTING MY ENERGY SOMEWHERE ELSE.

 

[Game Theory]

DUA,

In my opinion i was never fond of MDC since they started to campaign for WHITE SETTLERS in Zimbabwe. Yes, if you are asking my opinion on MDC, i think they are not worth a penny they are given by the British Government.I'd rather see a different opposion in that country but not the WHITE APPEASER (Tsvangirai) I hope that any MDC fools who wind up in custody get DEALT WITH properly.

It's a disgrace that a few people can hold a whole country to ransom. If any of MDC's objectives were met, land reform or regime change, then that would more than likely lead to civil war in Zimbabwe and i am sure you dont want to see that taking place in Africa at the moment. To me, the civil liberties and the security of the majority are a great deal more important than a few black African employees of Tony Blair.

I will say this, many of the ‘oppressive' regulations that MDC apologists cry about are only being enforced as a direct result of MDC anti-Zimbabwean behaviour. Example:

Calling strikes without a democratic vote of all the workers: As you may know, that country's economy is largely in the hands of western businesses. So, the implications of white management deciding to strike are enormous. It is an aggressive action by a white minority against the govt. If a black factory worker turns up for work on Monday morning and finds the doors locked and he wasn't even involved in any kind of ballot one would expect in ‘democratic' countries – then isn't that an eroding of civil liberties? When have you ever seen this reported on BBC?

The media. Personally I have no problem with western media being banned from Zimbabwe (if that is still the case). Some of the things I've read especially from the DAILY TELEGRAPH I see as harmful to Zimbabwe and Africans in general. If the BBC can repeatedly misrepresent data from the UN then why should any of its journalists be allowed to do the same misrepresentation IN Zimbabwe or even ZANZIBAR? I used to think, no, let them go to Zimbabwe and see the truth. The truth is a funny thing when it comes to black African economic emancipation. Some of the camera footage they've used to highlight ‘protests' is also deliberately misleading with regard to dates and numbers.

Even here in UK, sometimes back they had ANDRWE GILLIGAN (BBC REPORTER ) and that 40 minutes dossier which led to HUTTON REPORT thing made me laugh. What an irony?! The BBC punished and reprimanded for a broadcast most believed to be true. I see it as just desserts. All of Hutton's criticisms of the bbc are true when it comes to their reporting of third world countries. Serves ‘em right! be it about TANZANIA or ZIMBABWE

Corruption and Civil liberties are a red herring and no one can dispute that Zimbabwe govt's greatest crimes are:

*Land reform which intended to emancipate BLACK AFRICANS

*Not rolling over and letting a western-backed minority take over the country.

No amount of ruminating over principled leaders or human rights will change that fact.

And my advice to President KIKWETE. Dont let Blair fool you with offeres about MEDIATION and so on, knowing how they have double standards especially when they wanted to let you hand on the RADDAR SCANDAL, i am sure Britts are not trustworthy and dot stretch your self too much. Its a Briton's mess and its their to clean it.

 

[Keynez]

Ok, I'm going to raise some more issues, some, some of them have already been raised by others here.

Kwanza ni hii issue ya DRC. Kutokana na kwamba sina data za kutosha na vilevile kutokana na sababu za national interest, napenda tu kumwambia yule aliyeuliza kwa nini TZ hatukupeleka wanajeshi DRC, ajue kwamba Tz imetoa support ya kutosha, some of it we will never know, katika kumuondoa Mobutu. Kama contributor mwingine alivyosema, TZ inahakikisha inafuata foreign policy yake, at least in public. Nani asiyejua Kabila wamekaa tz miaka yote hii (hadi ikafikia wakati 'ikadhaniwa' kwamba amefariki?), nani asiyejua che guevara alimsaidia kabila lakini akakatishwa tamaa naye kwa kutokuwa serious enough (nimesoma hii kutoka multiple sources), nani asiyejua che guevara alikaa dar kwa miezi kadhaa wakati wa majaribio ya kumuondoa mobutu? Zaidi, Kikwete amekwenda kumsupport joseph kabila hata kabla ya uchaguzi, does that not tell you something?

Kuna anayesema Mugabe aliconspire kumuua Tongogara ili aepuke kuunda serikali ya mseto. Ok, na hii sina data ya kutosha, lakini let's say it was true, haiwezi kuwa ilifanyika in the best interest kwa nchi? Kati ya mwaka 1965-1970 kulikuwa na kati ya 22-25 military coups d'etat in africa, most of them engineered by foreign elements. That could have easily happened in z'bwe with serikali ya mseto, ukizingatia influence ya serikali ya makaburu wa south africa still in effect in south africa, angola and namibia (unaweza ukaongeza Mobutu's Zaire aliyekuwa anasaidiana side by side na jeshi la south africa kumsupport savimbi).

Kuna wanaosema z'bwe walikuwa wanaperform vizuri sana baada ya uhuru, lakini, tena, tujiulize nani alikuwa anamiliki uchumi wa nchi? Ndiyo maana somehow sera ya kuwasaidia zaidi indigenous peoples (some call it 'uzawa') ni relevant, kwa sababu possibility ya sabotage kama ilivyotokea z'bwe inakuwa ndogo. Je unasupport sera ya uchumi ambayo a bunch of people wakiamua kurudi walipotoka mababu zao uchumi unaangua? Kuna aliyesema wazungu wenyewe hawakuwa kwenye kilimo as much as tunavyotaka kuamini, na kwa nini wawepo wakati wanaweza kuwa na surplus na kuchezea supply na market price wanavyotaka? Hivi Mugabe aliwafukuza wazungu from z'bwe (Idi Amini style)? After all, kwa ninavyojua, wengi kama sio wote, kikatiba wana uraia wa z'bwe (hii inaraise issue ya dual-citizenship). Kama walikuwa na 100% mapenzi kwa nchi kwa nini hawakubaki kupigania haki zao, after all, I'm sure they had more means to survive kuliko wandengereko wenzangu.

Unajua wengi wetu, tunachukulia nchi kama marekani na UK kama kioo cha the best democracy, na kusema, ok, tutapigania ili tuwe kama wao. Tunasahau kwamba some of the worst recorded human sufferings and injustices happened in these countries. Hata leo, baadhi ya mambo hayo yanaendelea ndani ya nchi hizo. Is it fair kuzitumia hizi nchi kama standard ya democracy? Kuna mtu amelalamika kwamba Mugabe ana too much power (ikiwemo ya kuchagua governor na vice-president!), na nimesome comment ya mtu somewhere else analalamika Mugabe is controlling the army, najiuliza, huyu mtu ana nia nzuri na nchi? Hivi katiba ikisema kiongozi anaongoza kwa kipindi cha miaka 7, is it less democracy, than say marekani unapoongoza kwa miaka 4? Wanaosema Mugabe anadanganya kwenye chaguzi, mbona ni watu hao hao wanaosema MDC wameshinda kwenye viti vingi vya bunge, hasa mijini?

There is still hope in africa, pamoja na matatizo yetu mengi tu ya kimsingi, baadhi ya kihistoria, baadhi kwa sababu ya udhaifu, au ubadhilifu wa viongozi, bado nataka kuamini we shall overcome. Tatizo letu kubwa, litakaloendelea kuchelewesha maendeleo ni foreign influence. Hili ni tatizo ambalo lipo na ni la kweli. Unapoona marekani anaongea bila aibu, kwamba anataka kuanzisha kambi ya kudumu africa (hii ikiwa miaka 15 tu baada ya kwisha kwa apartheid south africa na ukizingatia crimes mbalimbali walizofanya africa in the past 40 years, sahau slavery, etc.) hapo ndiyo unajua kwamba kazi bado ipo. Ndiyo maana in a sense nimesikitishwa na jinsi nchi kama ethiopia ilivyoact kama puppet wa marekani kule somalia kwa sababu ukiangalia historia ya ethiopia ningependelea labda wasite kupresent that image. Ni kama leo ghana, south africa, DRC au tanzania wakubali marekani waweke jeshi lao!

Sorry kama naonekana naenda nje ya topic, lakini naamini zote hizi ni issues muhimu zinazoshabihiana na hiyo ya comrade mugabe.

By the way, nimesoma somewhere south africa wanafikiria kubadilisha jina la nchi, possibly kuitwa Azania. Will that not raise some eyebrows? I guess time will tell.

 

[Keynez]

By the way, Tanzania tayari imeshasema msimamo wake kuhusu land reform in z'bwe. Foreign Minister juzi juzi hapa amesema wanasupport hatua hizo.

 

[Interested Observer]

QUOTE:"In my opinion i was never fond of MDC since they started to campaign for WHITE SETTLERS in Zimbabwe. Yes, if you are asking my opinion on MDC, i think they are not worth a penny they are given by the British Government.I'd rather see a different opposion in that country but not the WHITE APPEASER (Tsvangirai) I hope that any MDC fools who wind up in custody get DEALT WITH properly".UNQUOTE

DrWho you are selling yourself too cheap, to be assimilated, you're going back to our " as usual authorised syllabus" in your thesis, or research, when you do not add words like "victims of cultural imperialism", "bash with western imperialism" then your revolutionary civic professor will not consider your thesis as a "quote". Listen, watch and read carefully, are those bad pictures representing Western media propaganda? I am sure for people like you would even say Darfur is also Western Media propaganda.

Tsvangirai was a Labour union leader who after seeing Mugabe lacking ability to rule the country formed MDC, which threatened Mugabes rule. In 2000 MDC swept most of the seats in parliament. Before MDC whites in Zimbabwe were friends to Mugabe. Read careful why Mugabe waited to nationalise land after more than two decades. He got support from the whites.
The same whites after seeing that MDC was talking in different style, good governance, with the rule of law, democracy and all sorts of encouraging politics, they turned away from Mugabe, and started supporting MDC.

Read careful, and listen careful, when did you hear Tsvangirai advocating about supporting whites? He didn't support at any time the violent take over of the land, he advocated the lawful redistribution of the land to landless blacks. No one day he said once he gets power he will return the land to whites.

Mugabe is a clever guy, after loosing grip to the soldiers who fought in DRC, and after suffering economic downfall, he had only one option in hand, (because at that time even the ordinary people knew that Mugabe was going out of power), the land. This worked very well as it was taken as correction of the past colonial era's sins.

Today is 21st century world, people live too short or too busy to start blaming a white man for eveything, let us correct our wrongs first, we are facing critical time in Africa, nobody is interested in these theories!

 

[JokaKuu]

keynez,
a.wakati wa vita vya DRC Tanzania iliendelea kusafirisha silaha nzito za Uganda na ku-train their officer cadets at Monduli. Wako waliolaumu sana kitendo hicho. I believe that to be the worst miscalculation in the history of Tanzanias foreign policy.

b.World Bank na IMF walikata msaada kwa Zimbabwe kwa kujiingiza kijeshi DRC. Wakati huo huo iliendelea kuwasaidia Rwanda na Uganda.

c.Inasemekana wananchi wa Congo zaidi ya millioni 2 wamepoteza maisha kutokana na vita hii. Vitendo vya mauaji inasemekana vilikithiri zaidi ktk maeneo yaliyokuwa chini ya Rwanda na Uganda.

d.Majeshi ya Zimbabwe na Angola yamefanya kazi kubwa, katika mazingira magumu, kuhakikisha kwamba DRC haisambaratiki kama Somalia. Majeshi ya Zimbabwe yamekuwa ya mwisho kuondoka;wameondoka na kuagwa kama MASHUJAA.

e.wale wanaolalamika kwamba Mugabe ameingia hasara tu na hawakupata faida zozote kiuchumi. Hivi tumesahau Zambia,Tanzani,Mozambique,na nchi zote zilizosaidia Zimbabwe kupata uhuru vilevile hazikufaidika kiuchumi? Wenye kutoa malalamiko hayo ni wabinafsi na hawajui historia.

f.kama Tanzania,Mozambique,na Zambia kila mmoja angekuwa anazingatia faida za kiuchumi, na siyo heshima na utu wa mwafrika, basi Zimbabwe isingepata uhuru wake mwaka 1981.

 

[Dua]

jokaKuu

e.wale wanaolalamika kwamba Mugabe ameingia hasara tu na hawakupata faida zozote kiuchumi. Hivi tumesahau Zambia,Tanzani,Mozambique,na nchi zote zilizosaidia Zimbabwe kupata uhuru vilevile hazikufaidika kiuchumi? Wenye kutoa malalamiko hayo ni wabinafsi na hawajui historia.

Unaweza kusema lolote unaloamini lakini Mugabe hakwenda Congo kuwasaidia kama vile Tanzania ilivyojitolea kuwakomboa kusini mwa Afrika. Unapotosha ukweli ambao uko bayana, rejea hususan kikao cha SADC kilichofanyika Harare kabla ya uamuzi wa Zimbabwe kupeleka wanajeshi wao kule.

 

[Dua]

Zimbabwe's crisis 'like Titanic'

Zambian President Levy Mwanawasa has likened the current crisis in Zimbabwe to the sinking of the Titanic.

He said the country's economic difficulties were forcing its citizens to leave like passengers jumping from the sinking ship to save their lives.
He called for a new approach as quiet diplomacy was not producing results. Meanwhile, the UK's leader Tony Blair told the British parliament that the solution to Zimbabwe's problems had to come ultimately from within Africa.
An estimated 3m Zimbabweans, about a quarter of the total population, have fled the country in recent years.

Scores of activists have been arrested and allegedly assaulted after police broke up a banned rally in Harare on 11 March.
Four senior MDC officials were prevented from leaving the country, some to seek treatment for injuries they say were sustained in police custody.

Forthright

The BBC's Grant Ferrett in Johannesburg says the remarks by Mr Mwanawasa are among the strongest made by any of Zimbabwe's neighbours during years of economic turmoil and political confrontation.

Mr Mwanawasa did not mention Zimbabwe by name, but said a member of the Southern African Development Community (Sadc) had sunk into "serious difficulties".

"As I am speaking right now, one Sadc country has sunk into such economic difficulties that it may be likened to a sinking Titanic whose passengers are jumping out in a bid to save their lives," Mr Mwanawasa said during a state visit to Namibia. "Zambia has so far been an advocate of quiet diplomacy and continues to believe in it, but the twist of events in the troubled country necessitates the adoption of a new approach."

Our correspondent says such a change would need the support of South Africa. Over the past week, South Africa has become more forthright in its remarks, but is not yet willing to openly criticise President Robert Mugabe's government. Mr Blair said the solution to Zimbabwe will not come through pressure applied by the UK. "That pressure has got to be applied within Africa and particularly within the African Union," the British prime minister said.

"We will continue to do all we can to make sure Africa realises this is a responsibility of Africa as well as the Zimbabwean government."

Profiteering

In Zimbabwe itself, the governor of the central bank, Gideon Gono, has complained that increases of about 200% in the price of petrol had made life unbearable. He said that the spirit of profiteering had become as deadly as HIV and Aids. Mr Gono warned that the law would be used to prevent people being ripped off. Our reporter says the fuel price rises merely reflect the continuing collapse in value of the Zimbabwe dollar.

Mr Mugabe has ruled Zimbabwe for 27 years, but there is increasing discontent over the country's economic crisis.
More than 80% of Zimbabweans are living in poverty, with chronic unemployment and inflation running at more than 1,700% - the highest in the world.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/6475851.stm

 

[Game Theory]

INTERESTED OBSERVER WROTErWho you are selling yourself too cheap, to be assimilated, you're going back to our " as usual authorised syllabus" in your thesis, or research, when you do not add words like "victims of cultural imperialism", "bash with western imperialism" then your revolutionary civic professor will not consider your thesis as a "quote". Listen, watch and read carefully, are those bad pictures representing Western media propaganda?

INTERESTED OBSERVER

Welcome to the thread.

Land is a fundamental issue to Zimbabweans. So is the issue of how western governments demonise non compliant African leaders, while turning a blind eye, to others who are destroying their countries. So please do not attempt to put words into my mouth, to suggest simply because Mugabe is a an African i , he will get my 100% support, which is presumptious and offensive.

I know why I support Mugabe on this land issue, and why I stay silent on other leaders, who I know little about. I also know a bit about the systems and strategies used to demonise African; which is CLEARLY at play in this instance and if the whites and thier friends were not so quick to demonise African leaders, we would perhaps be in a better position to seperate reality from myth and propaganda.

I respect Robert Mugabe as a leader and radical. If evidence is found that genuinely descredits him, then he must face his fate (but given most of sponsors of change in Zimbabwe are the same that stll detain people without trial in Belmarsh and Guantanamo bay, i will have my reservations) But that said, these are the principles I live and fall by. But by the same token, we do not take the enemies propaganda, or those from within the country, whose motives and authtenticity we are unable to confirm and side with our enemies against one of our own. Never, ever.

I am sure for people like you would even say Darfur is also Western Media propaganda.

How can you be sure of something that you have not even asked me?

Tsvangirai was a Labour union leader who after seeing Mugabe lacking ability to rule the country formed MDC, which threatened Mugabes rule. In 2000 MDC swept most of the seats in parliament. Before MDC whites in Zimbabwe were friends to Mugabe. Read careful why Mugabe waited to nationalise land after more than two decades. He got support from the whites.The same whites after seeing that MDC was talking in different style, good governance, with the rule of law, democracy and all sorts of encouraging politics, they turned away from Mugabe, and started supporting MDC.

FLIPFLOPING is normal with white people...MWALIMU told us this long time ago. As African i am sure you knew this long time ago. and i dont understand when i read or hear the usual talk that Mugabe is giving land to his friends. SO WHAT?!!! If yes, then that's just a sad fact of political life. Then again,How many friends can one man have? Do you really think that the land your white cousins were holding on to for so long is not enough to go round? Do you really think that Mugabe has so many close personal friends that after he has finished rewarding them there will be none left for the rest of the black African agricultural community?


Those in power will reward those close to them for various reasons.As far as i know some of the British who received land in Zim were army majors being rewarded for their services to the govt etc. If cronyism is what you object to then fine, we are in agreement. However, I am a little more pragmatic in the sense that I see this going on worldwide. The double standards applied to African leadership therefore annoy me. When we do ANYTHING we must be saints. We must be 100% pure motives. As if anything a western leader did was for the people and not shareholders of some big company (for example).


Perhaps no longer being alive makes it easier to gloss over their mistakes when a black AFRICAN man is in power he is meant to be some sort of ideological saint. A FEW leaders, black or white can achieve this exalted aim but it's not a permanent state of affairs unless they are assassinated (thus ending their chance of making mistakes). And often events put them in a position where they feel they must respond in a certain way. If politicians always had the power to do the right thing for their people ALL the time then most would because in an ideal world that would keep them in power the longest. And power is what they all want isn't it?

Read careful, and listen careful, when did you hear Tsvangirai advocating about supporting whites? He didn't support at any time the violent take over of the land, he advocated the lawful redistribution of the land to landless blacks. No one day he said once he gets power he will return the land to whites.Mugabe is a clever guy, after loosing grip to the soldiers who fought in DRC, and after suffering economic downfall, he had only one option in hand, (because at that time even the ordinary people knew that Mugabe was going out of power), the land. This worked very well as it was taken as correction of the past colonial era's sins...

ohh well...thats doesnt stop people from congratulating him from taking that bold move

Today is 21st century world, people live too short or too busy to start blaming a white man for eveything, let us correct our wrongs first, we are facing critical time in Africa, nobody is interested in these theories!

Maybe a 21st Century white people should stop intefering with what goes in Africa. in other words, as Mugabe once said AFRICA has never claimed a piece of Europe so how come Europeans are claiming lands in Africa as their own? Can you imagine a black African claiming Parts of land in EAST MIDLANDS as theirs!

 

[Kazi Ndiyo Kipimo Cha Utu]

We gonna be there as soon as possible,Let's try to say "NO" For 3%.

 

[Game Theory]

can you please elaborate?

 

[Mwanagenzi]

Kuna madai kuwa Angola inapeleka askari 2,500 Zimbabwe kumsaidia Bob "kupambana" na wapinzani!