Zimbabwe: The turmoil, reconciliation, and the future!

Zimbabwe: The turmoil, reconciliation, and the future!

Kichuguu

Mimi nilipita pale baada ya uhuru, na kwa kweli nilijifunza mengi ambayo pengine wengine hawafahamu. Wazungu ndio pekee waliokuwa wanakopeshwa pesa na mabenki pale kwa sababu ya rangi na sio kwamba ilikuwa lazima warudishe hizo pesa - kama hawakufanikiwa basi hilo deni litafutwa na hiyo benki na kwa namna moja au nyingine nchi yote italipa.

Ukweli wa mambo siyo kweli kwamba mashamba wamerudishiwa Zimbabwean wengi wao bado hawana ardhi. Waliopewa mashamba ni rafiki wa Mugabe ambao wameyahodhi kama rehani ili waje wayauze baadaye na kitu kibaya zaidi ambacho kiliwafilisi ni vita ya Congo ambayo waliingia kichwa kichwa.

Kweli uchumi umeporomoka na wanaohodhi mashamba hawalimi kitu, tatizo lingine ni lile la kuvunja makazi ya walalahoi na nyumba nyingi nzuri za wapinzani wake kama unakumbuka mama Tibaijuka alikwenda kule alipofanya ile operation. HUYU NI DICTATOR HANA TOFAUTI NA WENGINE. KUMBUKA PIA ALIVYOUA WANDEBELE KULE BULAWAYO NA YULE KOMANDA ALIYEKUWA MKUU WA MAJESHI KULE MOZAMBIQUE KWA JINA TONGOGARA.
 
Jamani JK kutafuta suluhu aliwatembelea wapinzani pia na kusema nao ama nin yale yale ?
 
Lunyugu

Huyu bwana hakwenda kuwaona wapinzani kwa kisingizio kwamba alikuwa Hospitalini. Asingeweza kufanya hivyo kwani balozi wa USA aligonga mwamba alipotaka kwenda kumwona kule jela/mahabusu.
 
Nakumbuka alivyoenda DRC Alikutana na mpinzani Mkuu aliyeshindwa uchaguzi,Nafikiri kutokana na hali ya Tension iliyokuwepo Harare na uzito wa mazungumzo yenyewe ameona asitibue, Lakini kwa hulka yake angeenda kumpaka mafuta ya chupa huyo mpinzani...........................
 
Can we have an informed debate on Zimbabwe without falling into propaganda and lies
 
that Mugabe is responsible for the current situation in Zimbabwe

How is that possible? thats why i asked if any JF member is ready to discuss this matter based on facts and not what other posters from other forums have posted
 
Mugabe is very responsible. I think those who do not know about him should just keep quiet, he stayed in power for too long and on top of that he killed a lot of people for nothing.

If you are interested on Zimbabwe and to find out what is going on you should join their forum.
 
Do you know that Zimbabwean government have been bending over themselves to compensate white farmers, Mugabe himself tried to accommodate them in a donor's conference before any farms were ever "invaded".


My understanding is too many white people with interests in Zimbabwe have influence over the media and the ear of western governments.Mugabe did not do an Idi Amin (KICKING INDIANS OUT)he mearly told Blair to "keep his pink nose out of Zimbabwe".Further more those white farmers where not thrown out, a great many chose to leave and some are in Tanzania posing as "investrors"
 
Zimbabwe government refused to compensate white farmers, all the money for compensation was being given by Britain. While that was done Mugabe was misdirecting the funds to his own use and hence Britain refused to finance that programme any more.

There wasn't any invasion of farms by Zimbabweans; it was only a political tool for support. Mugabe was losing ground and hence compensated the freedom fighters using a lot of money which as the country couldn't afford, and this was done in the 90's.
 
If you are interested to know more about Zimbabwe visit the site below.

_42694383_mugabe_index_getty.jpg

http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/
 
I thought you knew better on African politics. Its normal in many countries in Africa that once any group is aligned with the White expatriates or for the Zimbabwe's case (settlers) they can do no wrong in the eyes of the U.S. and Europe.

These opposition forces can break any law and be protected by these Western-controlled media.What they want is for President Mugabe and the Government of Zimbabwe to allow these opposition groups, which are being funded and promoted by the U.S. and Britain, to overthrow the democratically elected government of Zimbabwe. I am not sure how SCOTALAND YARD would react if things were reversed.

Ever asked yourself on why the western media have gone not gone mad about the Human rights violations in Uzbekistan,Burma,China,Saudi Arabia and Egypt to name a few?
 
DrWHO

I do not know about African politics but I know some of the truths:

Morgan has never aligned with the white expatriates as you ascertain or Zimbabwe settlers, his origin comes from the Zimbabwe Congress of Trade Union (ZCTU). May be you do not know that the Mayor of Harare was an independent candidate and believe me this guy was beaten by the police more than what you saw on Morgan. Where on earth have you seen or heard an elected mayor being beaten? To put it mildly imagine if Ken Livingstone (London mayor) is beaten by the police on the bit - those are the politics under Robert Mugabe.

The opposition never broke any law unless you support when Peter Bennet an elected (white) member of parliament was beaten inside the Chambers by a minister who was questioned on developement issues. At the end of the day this guy was jailed. What about murambatschina - clear the rubbish!

You should be aware as well that Old Mutual a UK listed company and others own 90% of that countrie's economy, so in other words the UK benefits a lot when that country is perfoming better and most of those companies are traded at Zimbabwe Stock exchange (used to be Africa's third largest bourse) and FTSE. Look for these companies just to mention a few - Old Mutual, Lorho, ZISCO, Mikkles etc., because of historical reasons UK have more interests there; even some MP's of UK have farms in Zimbabwe. (Before all these problems its economy was 25 times more than Kenya's economy)
 
Zimbabwe stops activists leaving

Chamisa said unidentified men hit him and ran
Four leading Zimbabwean opposition members have been prevented from going abroad and one of them was attacked at the airport, the opposition says.
MP Nelson Chamisa said he was beaten as he tried to leave. The government denied its forces were involved.

Earlier two women activists .................................................


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6463653.stm
 
Zimbabwe, is a nation on its knees, inflation is running at 1,700%, unemployment at 80%, most people unable to buy even the most basic goods, the state health service has collapsed, many Zimbabweans are now are moving to South Africa, there are about 3,million of them there. This is a bad news for the SA's government, because no government can satisfactorily absorb an influx of this scale.

Africa what do we do with this Mugabe's cancer? Mind you he is not going anywhere, because the security of the country is still royal to him, and it no question that it would take more than what is happening there now for Zimbabweans to see the post-Mugabe era!

Tanzania what do we have to offer to this situation in Zimbabwe?
 
We cannot offer anything because we have our own Zimbabwe here . From Zanzibar to Mara during kast election and now Tunduru .What can we offer ?
 
Inasikitisha kwamba wengi wetu tunasahau historia haraka hivi, na inakuwa rahisi kwetu kuwa influenced na vyombo vya magharibi.

Issue ya zimbabwe ni ya kihistoria. Wengi wetu tumesahau kwamba zimbabwe ilikuwa ni kama symbol ya independence movements za africa miaka ya 60-80. Pamoja na kwamba, zimbabwe ilipata uhuru kabla ya south africa na namibia, lakini ilionekana kwamba ilikuwa turning point, na matumani yakawa makubwa kwamba nchi zilizobaki zingefanikiwa soon.

Hatua serikali ya Mugabe ilizochukua katika suala la ardhi, in a perfect world, ilitakiwa kuchukua baada tu ya uhuru, lakini kumbuka, huku south africa ikiwa bado chini ya makaburu, z'bwe haikuwa kwenye position, kisiasa, kijeshi au kiuchumi, ya kufanya hivyo. Hapa simtetei kwa nini imechukua this long kufanya maamuzi haya, kuna uwezekano kwamba alijisahau au kama wengine wanavyosema, amechukua hatua hizi ili kupata political support ndani ya nchi (ingawa nakataa kuamini sababu hizi zote mbili), lakini ukweli ndiyo huo kwamba ni hatua iliyotakiwa kuchukua, hawa wazungu wanaolalamika wamenyang'anywa ardhi wawalaumu wazee wao kwa 'kuwaleta' afrika! Matatizo ya zimbabwe ya kiuchumi yanatokana na sanctions (illegal sanctions) kuliko sera ya ardhi. Definetly, sera ya ardhi, especially jinsi ilivyokuwa aggressive ingeleta mtitisiko wa mazao kwa kipindi kifupi, lakini statistics zinaonyesha z'bwe walikuwa kwa miaka mingi na surplus kila mwaka kwenye mazao, kiasi kwamba hiyo isingeathiri supply, at least siyo kwa rate iliyotokea. Ndiyo maana nasema illegal sanctions ndiyo zimechangia hizo inflation na matatizo mengine.

Ningependa tujikumbushe kwamba, pamoja na kwamba africa, technically tumeamua kumove on baada ya ukoloni, kwa maana ya kwamba hatujadai fidia au kutaka msamaha kutoka kwa watawala wetu wa zamani, hii haizuii some measures kuchukuliwa kurekebisha baadhi ya mambo. Nyerere alijaribu kureverse baadhi ya mambo, kama unakumbuka moja ya dai kubwa la Mwalimu kuhusu ujamaa, ni kwamba, africa kabla ya ukoloni tulikuwa wajamaa, yeye alichokuwa anajaribu kufanya ni kuturudisha jinsi tulivyokuwa tunaishi, lakini kwa kuwa mimi na wewe hatukuwa na kumbukumbu zozote ya jinsi tulivyokuwa tunaishi miaka 80-90 kabla, tukampinga. Zaidi, kilichomuangusha zaidi, ni kwamba nchi za magharibi na zenyewe hazikushirikiana naye.

Lumumba na yeye alikuwa anaonekana anaelekea huko huko. Nani asiyejua role ya marekani na ubelgiji katika kumuondoa, na hadi kumuua Lumumba? Hivi mnadhani Kabila kama raisi aliyechaguliwa kidemokrasia, hana haki, na hata wajibu, wa kuaddress events zote zilizotokea baada ya uhuru, especially foreign involvement? Matter of fact, Laurent Kabila alikuwa ni pro-lumumba.

Vipi kuhusu Nkrumah? Naye pia alikuwa anajaribu kuaddress effects za ukoloni na advocate measures za kuturudisha tulipokuwa, ikiwemo african union. Kilichomtokea ni kile kile wanachojaribu kumfanyia Mugabe, ingawa Mugabe amehakikisha 'wana-mtandao' ndani ya nchi na majirani wapo naye! Kama umesoma kilichomtokea Mzee Kwame, ni kwamba waliangusha bei ya cocoa, matokeo yake uchumi ukaanguka, na zaidi ya hapo kulikuwa na direct involvement ya cia katika operation nzima iliyomuondoa. Je tumove on bila kuaddress hizi issues?

Vipi hukusu angola? Kuna evidence nyingi zinazoonyesha marekani walimsupport savimbi na unita, against a legitimate govt ya angola, je hiyo haikuwa terrorism on the part of the cia and other usa agencies? Je dos astos hana haki, au hata wajibu wa kuuliza maswali hukusu kilichotokea angola kwa karibu miaka 30 ikiwemo vifo vya maefu ya watu, maelfu kuwa vilema wa maisha, eneo kubwa la ardhi kuwa unusable kwa sababu ya landmines etc.

Tukirudi kuhusu zimbabwe, measures alizochukua Mugabe ni long overdue. Sidhani kama utaratibu uliokuwa initiated na britain, wa kuipa serikali ya z'bwe pesa ili iwalipe white farmers ni sahihi, actually nadhani ni mbovu, na for once, tuone kwamba kuna actions viongozi wetu wanachukua in the best interest ya nchi zetu, siyo tunalaumu tu. Kuna wanaosema, mashamba walionyang'anywa wazungu wamepewa wafuasi wa Mugabe, basi kama Mugabe ana wafuasi wengi kiasi hicho, idea kwamba nchi nzima ya z'bwe ipo against Mugabe inatokea wapi?

Huko South Africa, wameanza kubadilisha majina ya mitaa, ambayo inaonekana ina majina ya kibaguzi au kikaburu na kureplace na majina ya kiasili, nilikuwa naongea na mwanataaluma mmoja wa mambo ya historia, nikamuhakikishia south africa ikiwa kwenye position ya kufanya maamuzi kama ya z'bwe itafanya, it maybe 10 years, 20 years, lakini na wenyewe watajaribu kureverse effects za ukoloni na ukaburu, ikiwemo issue ya ardhi. Kuna wanaosema Mandela sold out, kuna wanaosema alichoka kupigana akaamua kusettle for whatever karubu alichoweka mezani, lakini kama unafikiri the fight is over, fikiria tena. The fight for the independence of africa is far from over!
 
Great points keynez, we african can easily forget!!!

We only think about what to eat today!!!Esp when the Zims miss a loaf of bread, mill mill, meat etc from the supermarket, they become mad on Mugabe.

The issue of Land in Zimbabwe is very sensitive.
I support the taking back of Land but oppose the means though the settlers used the same means when they were taking the land. But MUGABE did not do it earlier!!!
He and his then ministers were glutton and the traitors!
They did not put first the interest of the nation but their stomach!
Western medias and the western countries including Austaria, Canada did so many atrocities to our African grandfathers when they were snatching land from them!!

MIND YOU THESE TWO COUNTRIES ARE NOW DOMINATING IN OWNING MINING COMPANIES IN TANZANIA.

They were brutaly beaten, killed etc.

Some young whites nowadays claim that when they settlers went in Africa they found the land which belonged to nobody but only frogs !!!

That is how the younger westerners are taught the African history by their
elders!


I TOTALLY DO NOT SUPPORT THE AFRICAN TRAITORS WHO WANT TO USE THE MISTAKE BY MUGABE TO GIVE BACK THE LAND TO THE SETTLERS.

I HOPE MORGANI IS NOT OF THAT NATURE!

BUT MUGABE MUST GO, WE ARE TIRED OF HIM. WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE SIMBA MAKONI ETC WHO CAN LEAD ZIMBABWE VERY WELL, I DOUBT ABOUT MORGAN
 
DrWHO

I do not know about African politics but I know some of the truths:

Morgan has never aligned with the white expatriates as you ascertain or Zimbabwe settlers, his origin comes from the Zimbabwe Congress of Trade Union (ZCTU). May be you do not know that the Mayor of Harare was an independent candidate and believe me this guy was beaten by the police more than what you saw on Morgan. Where on earth have you seen or heard an elected mayor being beaten? To put it mildly imagine if Ken Livingstone (London mayor) is beaten by the police on the bit - those are the politics under Robert Mugabe.

The opposition never broke any law unless you support when Peter Bennet an elected (white) member of parliament was beaten inside the Chambers by a minister who was questioned on developement issues. At the end of the day this guy was jailed. What about murambatschina - clear the rubbish!

You should be aware as well that Old Mutual a UK listed company and others own 90% of that countrie's economy, so in other words the UK benefits a lot when that country is perfoming better and most of those companies are traded at Zimbabwe Stock exchange (used to be Africa's third largest bourse) and FTSE. Look for these companies just to mention a few - Old Mutual, Lorho, ZISCO, Mikkles etc., because of historical reasons UK have more interests there; even some MP's of UK have farms in Zimbabwe. (Before all these problems its economy was 25 times more than Kenya's economy)



Fair enough, It is for Afrikan people to resolve their own problems, on their own land – in their own way. To suggest that others know best, is nothing new, we’ve heard that before, but Europe’s solutions had never served anybody else, but Europeans.

Once again Europeans are trying to give Africans a solution that they want and not Africans
 
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