'Who created God' is an Illogical Question!

nanix said:

Mungu ni roho. You cannot see him by your eyes, unless he decides to do so like for the case of Jesus. Mbona wapo watu wamewahi muona yesu in visions, dreams etc.

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Who said I wanted to see God by my eyes?

Roho is another lie.

Can you prove roho exists?

nanix said:

Wewe unaweza kutengeneza nini? Njiti ya kiberiti?

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That is a non sequitur.

An ignorant non sequitur.

gasgas said:

Nah i suggest upitie tena

There's a quote inasema "Repetition increases impression"

Soma the points za watu ambao unakubaliana nao kuhusu the God in the Bible
And ntakupa link ya upande wa pili.

Ukija tutadiscuss your issue na ile ya Kiranga

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Sir, I think you don't understand me

You told me that, you believe God does not have a source. Then I asked who is God to you, that which does not have a source and why you think has no source and why you say everything has source nothing appear without a cause, and every existence got its own cause but we can not use that paradigm to the source of the universe which we are not sure if it have its own source or not.

Hopefully if there is a contribution that you have made and it's similar to that explanation you can give a reference number of its comment.

Also considers that; I have raised this question to have a discussion with you, step by step so that we can enlighten each oneself.

Maji67 said:

Kweli kabisa. Halafu zikishatajwa neema zake, zitajeni maovu yake mana kama angemteketeza shetani in the first place basi amani ingekuwamo toka mwanzo wa adam mpaka sasa .

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God is holy.. Shetani alikuwa malaika mzuri tu tena kuzidi wote. Pride na uasi kama unavyofanya wewe ndo kulikomfanya awe shetan.. You cannot be the same as God.

gasgas said:

The Book is accessible to everyone,
anyone can be a scholar, even I
anybody can study it, i repeat,
Anybody

But to make things easier i will put up those links so that you may know what has been studied on those issues you raised


Are you in or out?

You want to stay with you side of the argument that you posted or you wanna see the other side as well before you make a conclusion, like an open minded person would?

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You can post whatever you want.

But a book that is full of contradiction cannot be a book of an all knowing, all powerful and all loving God.

It is just that simple.

Such a God would prevent contradictions in his book.

Namge said:

Spirit, soul and body.. Mkuu Nisaidie kujua hii misamiati hapo juu...ili nikuelewe.. Na ikiwezekana nikuamini...

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Kwa nini unataka kuniamini?

Spirit=The non-physical part of a person which is a seat of emotions and character.This regarded as surviving after the death of the body, often manifested as a ghost, a supernatural being.

Soul=The spiritual or immaterial part of a human regarded as immortal.

Body=The physical structure, including the bones, flesh, and organs of a person or an animal(ref. Oxford dictionary-tenth Edition)

Nyani Ngabu said:

Nimekuomba uniwekee huo unaouita wewe kuwa ni 'ushahidi wa kimantiki'. Vipi, hukuona au umesahau tu?

Halafu, hili si ni suala la imani?

Kwamba mtu unaamini tu kuwa mungu yupo.

Toka lini mambo ya imani yakahitaji ushahidi? Imani na ushahidi wapi na wapi?

Ndiyo, mtu unaweza kuamini kitu au jambo fulani bila ya kuwa na ushahidi na hicho kitu au hilo jambo likawepo kweli au likawa halipo.

Nadhani hata kwenye suala la mungu napo ni vivyo hivyo.

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Ushahidi wa kimantiki kwamba Mungu -in the above clearly stated context- hayupo ni contradiction.

Mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote hawezi kuwa kaumba ulimwengu unaoruhusu mabaya kutokea kama huu wetu.

That is like having a triangle that is also a circle in Euclidean geometry.

A self contradicting impossibility.

Sina tatizo na imani. Napenda kujifikiria kama mtu mwenye upeo wa kuelewa "Universal Declaration of Human Rights". Kwa hiyo napigania haki ya kila mtu kuamini anavyotaka.

Hata ukitaka kuamini mti ni Mungu, sawa tu. Nitaheshimu imani yako.

Lakini ukianza kunihubiria na kupost JF kwamba mti ni Mungu, na mimi nitapata nafasi na wajibu wa kukuuliza uhakikishe unachokisema ni kweli.

nanix said:

Mbona alishakuja duniani...yesu kristo..

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Kama Yesu ndiye aliyekuwa Mungu, Je alikuwa akimzungumzia nani aliposema ''Baba yangu''?....Na kwa nini Mungu alisali?

Kiranga said:

Ushahidi wa kimantiki kwamba Mungu -in the above clearly stated context- hayupo ni contradiction.

Mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote hawezi kuwa kaumba ulimwengu unaoruhusu mabaya kutokea kama huu wetu.

That is like having a triangle that is also a circle in Euclidean geometry.

A self contradicting impossibility.

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Sasa anayeji contradict ni nani?

Mungu mwenyewe au watu wanaomzungumzia mungu?

nanix said:

God is holy.. Shetani alikuwa malaika mzuri tu tena kuzidi wote. Pride na uasi kama unavyofanya wewe ndo kulikomfanya awe shetan.. You cannot be the same as God.

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Japokuwa shetani alikuwa mzuri Mungu hakujua ambacho kingetokea?

Then why aruhusu all of this sufferings na wanadamu kuchomwa moto while we are not the source of evils? Why the source ndio iwe punished?

Kiranga said:

First of all can you answer my question?

Why would God's book need scholars?

In fact, why would God need a book anyway?

Couldn't he insert some memory in our heads from birth, each in their own language, and save us from all the translation and verification?

Why didn't he do that?

Is it because God does not exist and these books are manmade?

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You seemingly don't have a clue of what I said, do you?

Why do i want to give you a link? these are things that I agree with, things that I agree as far as those misunderstandings you posted

i dont have time to write you a book explaining those issues. I will use references that I agree upon alright?

AIM is so that you see both sides of the coin and come to a conclusion

Instead of reading one side of the story and assuming it to be correct becausw it is convenient to you

Nyani Ngabu said:

Sasa anayeji contradict ni nani?

Mungu mwenyewe au watu wanaomzungumzia mungu?

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Mungu hawezi kuji contradict mwenyewe.

Kwa sababu hayupo.

Hiyo idea ya kuwapo kwa Mungu inaji contradict yenyewe.

Kiranga said:

Mungu hawezi kuji contradict mwenyewe.

Kwa sababu hayupo.

Hiyo idea ya kuwapo kwa Mungu inaji contradict yenyewe.

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Wewe unajua yote yaliyopo ulimwenguni?

Wote waliopo ulimwenguni?

Na vyote vilivyopo ulimwenguni?

Kwa kifupi, wewe unajua yote yaliyopo popote pale?

Kiranga said:

First of all can you answer my question?

Why would God's book need scholars?

In fact, why would God need a book anyway?

Couldn't he insert some memory in our heads from birth, each in their own language, and save us from all the translation and verification?

Why didn't he do that?

Is it because God does not exist and these books are manmade?

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You seemingly don't have a clue of what I said, do you?

Why do i want to give you a link? these are things that I agree with, things that I agree as far as those misunderstandings you posted

i dont have time to write you a book explaining those issues. I will use references that I agree upon alright?

AIM is so that you see both sides of the coin and come to a conclusion

Instead of reading one side of the story and assuming it to be correct becausw it is convenient to you

CHARMILTON said:

Kwa nini unataka kuniamini?

Spirit=The non-physical part of a person which is a seat of emotions and character.This regarded as surviving after the death of the body, often manifested as a ghost, a supernatural being.

Soul=The spiritual or immaterial part of a human regarded as immortal.

Body=The physical structure, including the bones, flesh, and organs of a person or an animal(ref. Oxford dictionary-tenth Edition)

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I need to know u speak out of spirit.. Soul or body..

Apollo said:

Japokuwa shetani alikuwa mzuri Mungu hakujua ambacho kingetokea?

Then why aruhusu all of this sufferings na wanadamu kuchomwa moto while we are not the source of evils? Why the source ndio iwe punished?

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The source will be punished severely multiple times over human beings
The book of Revelations inazungumzia hayo
Binadamu pia atakuwa punished for his disobedience,

nanix said:

God is holy.. Shetani alikuwa malaika mzuri tu tena kuzidi wote. Pride na uasi kama unavyofanya wewe ndo kulikomfanya awe shetan.. You cannot be the same as God.

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Nadhan hatutaelewana . Kwanza kabisa mimi sijifananishi na Mungu halafu kwa uelewa wako Hivi unadhani Mungu hakujua kwamba siku mojq shetani atakuja kubadilika toka mwanzo? Yani, kipindi ile anamsifu (shetan anasifiwa) , Mungu hakujua atabadilika? Kama hakujua "Sawa" ila suala la mjuzi wa yote (omniscient) na alpha & omega (omnipresent) tutakataa kwamba Mungu ana qualities hizi.
Na kama alijua mbona hakufanya kitu kuokoa jahazi (kumuokoa shetan asibadilike na kuwa mwovu)?
Huoni kwamba angezuia hili (shetan asiasi) , basi tungeongelea story nyingine ya kusifu Umungu wake?

Kiranga said:

I have said time and time again that a God who is omnipotent, omniscient and omni benevolent could not have existed nd created this universe which permits evil.

The logic of that proposition has more holes than Swiss cheese.

The truth table of that story looks the same as that of a bad novel that employs a "deus ex machina" device for the resolution.

God does not exist, if he existed, there would be no doubt that he exists.

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I totally disagree with you, I think there are good and logical reasons for someone to be believe in God.
First,the Sufficient Reason argument, everything has a sufficient reason for its existence, so totality of all Beings in the universe must have a reason for their existence, this reason must rest on the necessary being who is God.
Now, this necessary BEING cannot be contigent because if such being was contigent, then it could refute necessary being which is impossible.
This is best possible world of all worlds. There can never be a perfect world like this, you seem to claim that God cannot creat this evil world if he was omnipotent. Of course, God could great another world like this bit it couldn't be perfect like this world.
You said God created Evil!! Let us consider this problem of evil first.
To begin with, God created substance, substance i mean something which can exist independent. Whatever is substance, is ontologically good. Based on that argument, God cannot creat evil as you think.
But the question we should ask, what is evil? Is evil something? Is it a substance?
I think Evil is merely a deprivation of good, evil by itself does not exist in reality because it is not a substance. This means it can not exists by its own and therefore God did not creat evil. Evil is a illusion cuz in real sense, evil doesn't exist.
Take an example of Malaria, you can call Malaria an evil exists in human body, but what if malaria could exist in human body without any problem, would you still maintain that malaria is evil? It couldn't be possible to argue that way, evil is a deprivation of good. God did not creat evil.

Maji67 said:

Nadhan hatutaelewana . Kwanza kabisa mimi sijifananishi na Mungu halafu kwa uelewa wako Hivi unadhani Mungu hakujua kwamba siku mojq shetani atakuja kubadilika toka mwanzo? Yani, kipindi ile anamsifu (shetan anasifiwa) , Mungu hakujua atabadilika? Kama hakujua "Sawa" ila suala la mjuzi wa yote (omniscient) na alpha & omega (omnipresent) tutakataa kwamba Mungu ana qualities hizi.
Na kama alijua mbona hakufanya kitu kuokoa jahazi (kumuokoa shetan asibadilike na kuwa mwovu)?
Huoni kwamba angezuia hili (shetan asiasi) , basi tungeongelea story nyingine ya kusifu Umungu wake?

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Alijua shetani atadisobey na alikuwa na a clear defined plan
Na hiyo plan itakuwa kuwa fulfilled mwisho wa siku kama kitabu cha Revelations ambapo

Itakuwa revealed kwa binadamu Character halisi ya Mungu,
Itareveal ubaya wa dhambi kwa viumbe wake, wataona matokeo ya kumdisobey Mungu. How disobedience has led to such great disaster

God doesn't care about quantity. Hata mwisho wa siku wachache wakiokolewa hao hao ndio watakaompa sifa na utukufu Mungu kutoka moyoni

Na watakuwa si tu wana evidence tosha ya kuamini kuwa they made thr best choice

Kiranga said:

Ingekuwa ni dalili ya wazi kiasi kwamba ubishi kwamba Mungu hayupo ungekuwa more illogical kuliko ubishi kwamba Farao aliyejenga mapiramidi na kuandika habari zake humo hakuwahi kuwepo.

Kwa nini Mungu hakuweka ushahidi kama huo?

Kwa nini hakufanya kila siku tuwe tinaona aya ya biblia aliyoichagua itokee angani kwa nyota kujipanga?

Angefanya hivyo nisingebisha biblia ni kitabu cha Mungu. Lakini kwa sasa naona kimeandikwa na watu tu.

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Hata ingekuwa hivyo bado tatizo lingekuwa palepale kuna ambao wangetaka kuamini na ambao wasingetaka kuamini kama alivyo sasa.

Hata sasa wanaoamini mungu huona dalili za wazi za uwepo wa mungu.