Uraia wa waTutsi !

[jMali]

Kua na forum haionyeshi uhuru hatakidogo,kwani decision zinazo fanywa na serikali hazi jali wanaforum mmesema nini,kwa rwanda bado hawajawa na forum kama hii si kwasababu wamekatazwa iko siku itatokea,lakini kuna online news paper watu wana comment on different issues kama wanavyo taka bila wasiwasi,it is matter of time hata hizo forum kama jf zitafika.

wanaocomment huko ni watu kama wewe mnaopewa scholarship za masharti ya kushinda online kuipamba kigali!

 

[ROBERT MICHAEL]

I haven't judged you just from this thread, but your overall contribution to this forum on EAC conflicts.

Mbona sijamtaja mwengine ambae pro or anti the current administration ya Kigali. Kama unawasoma wenzako mara nyingi wapo fair even in other discussion za EAC na mara nyingi they come across clearly on which side/perspective they stand with reasonable arguments. If it is to do with our great nation (Tanzania) against other neighbors not including Rwanda mara nyingi you do not see them but other members will pop up from those nation to argue for the other side.

Lakini sio wewe siasa za ndani ya Tanzania humo, huku humo na unao upande wako, TZ vs Kenya humo and truthfully you're never on our side nor having any positive contribution about our great nation (Tanzania).

Ndio maana unaona hao wengine sija wataja sababu their differing perspective can be picked easily and mostly they appear with certain topics to air their side of the story (it is for the followers to decide), sasa which side r u (huo ndio unafiki wako ulipo, sema hupo wapi jamaa wakukatie nauli uende huko kwenye manufaa kwako).

Mpe za uso, mwambie hatuhitaji mchango wake aendelee kuponda Tanzania na hii ndo nchi yetu.

 

[jMali]

Sasa wewe sikuelewi kabisa,hivi mtanzania anakubali kufanyakazi rwanda kwa lazima? nafikiri ni mshiko ndio unampeleka kwa pk,acha watanzania wanaotafuta maisha wajitafutie maisha acha majungu yako.

Tanzania tuna makabila zaidi ya 120 huo mshiko unawavuta watutsi tu? Halafu is there a shortage ya wahutu professional huko mpaka watoke watutsi nje ya nchi kuchukua hizo kazi? Maana it seems suala ni ututsi, hata kama hawapo wa kupewa hizo kazi inabidi wengine wawe recruited nje ya nchi alimradi watutsi!

 

[jMali]

JMALI,naona unatatizo kubwa katika mtazamo dhidi ya pk,kwataarifa yako interahamwe wako mpaka US,na kua interahamwe siolazima uwe polini ni ideology ya chuki dhidi ya watusi inayo matter,whoever hate tutsi for me is interahamwe.

Hebu anza mwanzo wa thread mpaka sasa uniambie wapi ambapo umeona na hate watutsi.

 

[ROBERT MICHAEL]

PK sio kichaa,jiulize kwanini alitoa threat kwa jk,asiwe kabila,mseveni,uhuru,zuma,au ni kwasababu tz ni dhaifu? la hasha jk anajua wapi ameharibu,na ndio sababu alikimbilia kwa m7 kutafuta upatanishi na pk,na ndio maana hakujibu kitu,kwani mpango mzima kuhusu hila mbaya ya jk dhidi ya rwanda pk anayo.

Kikwete hakukosea,kweli mna akili za kushikiziwa kwa hyo Kagame yupo sahihi kwa kila jambo.Yeye alitoa ushauri na kuna option mbili kukubali au kukataa na si kumtukana.Alitakiwa ajibu kulekule Adis Ababa kama alivyofanya Museveni.

 

[murutongore]

Kwa nini hujaweka source? kwa sababu unajua kuwa hii propaganda yako inatoka kwenye gazeti la serikali yenu dhalimu ya new times rwanda. This trash is not credible at all! Jipange upya hapa tunajadili vyanzo vya habari huru!!

LOL... ulivyo na akili ndogo umeshasahau hata mada hii inahusu nini...nimekuambia kuwa wewe ni sisimizi katika mustakabali wa amani katika maziwa makuu..kwa hiyo endelea kupotosha uma mpaka utakapochoka lakini sisi tunaendelea kuchapa kazi. Unfortunately, you are non-existant in the scheme of things vis a vis the Great Lakes Region.
Utaishia ku copy and paste hapa taarifa zako za kuokotaokota mpaka utachoka. The shapers of the future of this region are in Angola.

 

[Koba]

Mpe za uso, mwambie hatuhitaji mchango wake aendelee kuponda Tanzania na hii ndo nchi yetu.

Za USO? Umefilisika akili wewe na acha kudanganya watu,and you need a prayer kama unafikiri hii topic is about hating or loving Tanzania

 

[Ndeleya]

Wote waliuana maana ilikuwa ni vita. Kwa kawaida wanaoshindwa vita ndio wamekufa zaidi. Kwa hapa Wahutu ndio walikimbia baada ya kushindwa. Data ambazo sio rasmi inasemekana walikufa watu 800,000. Kabla ya mauaji population ya watusi wote including watoto inasemekana ilikuwa hawazidi 500,000. Assume waliuawa watusi 300,000 theni wanaobaki ni wahutu. Tafakari ni nani walikufa zaidi na inapoadhimishwa kukumbuka waliokufa ni nani wanaotajwa?

 

[Koba]

Wote waliuana maana ilikuwa ni vita. Kwa kawaida wanaoshindwa vita ndio wamekufa zaidi. Kwa hapa Wahutu ndio walikimbia baada ya kushindwa. Data ambazo sio rasmi inasemekana walikufa watu 800,000. Kabla ya mauaji population ya watusi wote including watoto inasemekana ilikuwa hawazidi 500,000. Assume waliuawa watusi 300,000 theni wanaobaki ni wahutu. Tafakari ni nani walikufa zaidi na inapoadhimishwa kukumbuka waliokufa ni nani wanaotajwa?

Hizi analysis za elimu ya division five tabu kweli kweli.

 

[Inside10]

Watutsi wamejipanga sana hata hapa Tanzania wapo na baada ya Kagame kuchukua nchi wengine waliacha kazi na kwenda kwao kuajiriwa serikalini ila bado wapo wengi tu.

Hebu tutajie unaowafahamu

 

[murutongore]

Wote waliuana maana ilikuwa ni vita. Kwa kawaida wanaoshindwa vita ndio wamekufa zaidi. Kwa hapa Wahutu ndio walikimbia baada ya kushindwa. Data ambazo sio rasmi inasemekana walikufa watu 800,000. Kabla ya mauaji population ya watusi wote including watoto inasemekana ilikuwa hawazidi 500,000. Assume waliuawa watusi 300,000 theni wanaobaki ni wahutu. Tafakari ni nani walikufa zaidi na inapoadhimishwa kukumbuka waliokufa ni nani wanaotajwa?

mediocre at everything...expert at nothing. Typical of the kinds of you and your friends akina Jean Marie aka Jmali, Rushasha (aliyemkana mamake mtutsi) na Mokala1989 aka majeshi 1981.

 

[jMali]

LOL... ulivyo na akili ndogo umeshasahau hata mada hii inahusu nini...nimekuambia kuwa wewe ni sisimizi katika mustakabali wa amani katika maziwa makuu..kwa hiyo endelea kupotosha uma mpaka utakapochoka lakini sisi tunaendelea kuchapa kazi. Unfortunately, you are non-existant in the scheme of things vis a vis the Great Lakes Region.
Utaishia ku copy and paste hapa taarifa zako za kuokotaokota mpaka utachoka. The shapers of the future of this region are in Angola.

why bother replying to me if i am so insignificant? why don't you just shut up and let us sisimizi continue with our debate?

 

[ROBERT MICHAEL]

Za USO? Umefilisika akili wewe na acha kudanganya watu,and you need a prayer kama unafikiri hii topic is about hating or loving Tanzania

Umefilisika akili wewe ambaye unaye panic ,jibu hoja huko.

 

[jMali]

mediocre at everything...expert at nothing. Typical of the kinds of you and your friends akina Jean Marie aka Jmali, Rushasha (aliyemkana mamake mtutsi) na Mokala1989 aka majeshi 1981.

explain hizo numbers acha kuyeyusha.

 

[jMali]

Hizi analysis za elimu ya division five tabu kweli kweli.

lete wewe za kwako za ki-PhD. Ukishindwa basi wewe ndio tabu kuliko huyo div 5!

 

[murutongore]

explain hizo numbers acha kuyeyusha.

wewe sisimizi si ndio unajifanya unajua FACTS..mwambie huyo aweke hizo facts hapa sio kuweka vitu alivyoota usiku

 

[jMali]

Wote waliuana maana ilikuwa ni vita. Kwa kawaida wanaoshindwa vita ndio wamekufa zaidi. Kwa hapa Wahutu ndio walikimbia baada ya kushindwa. Data ambazo sio rasmi inasemekana walikufa watu 800,000. Kabla ya mauaji population ya watusi wote including watoto inasemekana ilikuwa hawazidi 500,000. Assume waliuawa watusi 300,000 theni wanaobaki ni wahutu. Tafakari ni nani walikufa zaidi na inapoadhimishwa kukumbuka waliokufa ni nani wanaotajwa?

Na kwa kuongezea tu ndugu yangu. Watutsi wenyewe waliofiwa walihesabu ndugu zao waliokufa wakapata idadi isiyozidi laki nne! lakini wahutu hawaruhusiwi kuhesabu ndugu zao waliokufa! Ni kosa kisheria kusema wahutu nao walikufa linaitwa genocide denying/revisionism.... Halafu hapo hapo statistics zinasema wamekufa watu kuanzia laki 8 hadi millioni!

 

[jMali]

GENOCIDE OR NOT?:

"The real news was that ALL of the top Rwandan military officers, including the supposedly infamous Colonel Bagosora, were found not guilty of conspiracy or planning to commit genocide. And Gen. Gratien Kabiligi, a senior member of the general staff was acquitted of all charges! The others were found guilty of specific acts committed by subordinates, in specific places, at specific times - not an overall conspiracy to kill civilians, much less Rwandan-Tutsi civilians.

This raises the more profound question: if there was no conspiracy and no planning to kill ethnic civilians, can the tragedy that engulfed Rwanda properly be called "a genocide" at all? Or, was it closer to a case of civilians being caught up in war-time violence, like the Eastern Front in WWII, rather than the planned behind-the-lines killings in Nazi death camps? The ICTR judgment found the former." Source: Jurist forum




IDADI NA TAKWIMU YA WAHANGA:


Sensa rasmi ya serikali kufanyika Rwanda kabla ya genocide ya 1994 ilifanyika mwaka 1991. Sensa hii inasema idadi ya watutsi wote Rwanda ilikuwa 596,400, au 8.4% ya wanyarwanda wote wakati huo. Hivyo logically haiwezekani uwe na vifo kuanzia 800,000 hadi millioni vya watutsi mwaka 1994, miaka mitatu tu baadae. Maana yake utakuwa umemaliza watutsi wote, ambao wangebaki wangekuwa watoto wa miaka 3 tu yaani waliozaliwa baada ya sensa.



Baada ya kuingia madarakani serikali ya Kagame ilinyofoa vipengele vyote vya asilimia za wahutu na watutsi na sasa haichapishi asilimia au idadi kamili za wahutu na watutsi badala yake inachapisha idadi ya jumla tu. Yenyewe imeweka jumla ya watu 7,148,496 mwaka 1991. Source: National Institute of statistics Rwanda. Hivyo hii 8.4% unaweza kuipata kutoka vyanzo vingine huru. Vya kwangu baadhi ni hivi hapa:

1. "Monbiot takes issue with our claim that the "great majority of deaths were Hutu", and calls this "as straightforward an instance of revisionism as I've ever seen". But Rwanda's 1991 census estimated the Tutsi population at 600,000, and some 300,000 Tutsi survived the violence of 1994. Whether 800,000 or 1 million people perished, the great majority of deaths must have been Hutu. The standard account of the "Rwandan genocide" is monumentally flawed. We also cite a 1994 US state department memo that Kagame's forces were killing "10,000 or more Hutu civilians per month" source: the guardian uk.
2. (prof Congleton, prof Hillman, prof konrad; 40 years research on rent seeking2: rent seeking in practice. springer-verlag berlin Heidelberg; 2008, pg 193).
3. "There are an estimated 300,000 survivors of the Rwandan genocide" source: Rwandan survivors.

Mwaka 2005, jumuiya ya wahanga wa genocide wa kitutsi inayoitwa Ibuka ilifanya sensa ya nyumba kwa nyumba kupata idadi ya watutsi waliokufa kwenye genocide. Zoezi hili lilipata Baraka za serikali, lilikuwa wazi na lilitangazwa sana kwenye media ili wananchi watoe ushirikiano. Walipata idadi ya vifo vya watutsi 355,745 tu! Kwa maana nyingine kila mwaka, ikifika ile siku ya maazimisho ya genocide, watutsi waliofiwa, wanaadhimisha vifo vya ndugu zao 355,745 tu si zaidi ya hapo! Serikali ya Kagame ikakataa kuchapisha matokeo haya (lakini ripoti ilivuja). Chanzo cha habari hii si cha kuaminika sana lakini kuna facts mbili ambazo hazina utata; moja, sensa hii ilifanyika hili halina ubishi, pili; matokeo yake yalizuiwa kutolewa. Source: proxylake. Ukijumuisha na data za kuaminika za sensa idadi hii inamake sense.

Quote: "The Rwandan gov of the RPF prefers to maintain this confusion. That is why it has refused to reveal the number of dead Tutsis and dead Hutus. It prefers things blurred so the world does not know the extent of massacres committed against the Hutu by the RPF and to inflate the number of Tutsi victims. It is necessary to note that the census of the population organized under the supervision of the UN (UNDP, UNFAP, CEA) and with the aid of countries such as the USA and Canada that terminated on the 15[SUP]th[/SUP] of August, 1991 fixed the total number of Tutsis in the country at 8.4% of the population of 7,099,844 persons. Thus, the numbers that suggest that the entire Tutsi population was massacred between April and July 1994 are simply fantasies." Source: The New World Order Ideology and Africa, Tatah mentah, 2010, pg242.

Conclusion: Serikali ya Kagame kwa makusudi haitaki wahutu wahesabu watu wao waliokufa kwa sababu kwa mahesabu ya vifo 800,000 mpaka milioni, wahutu watakuwa zaidi ya 400,000 au angalau nusu ya wahanga wa genocide. Ndio maana sasa badala ya kuitwa Rwandan genocide sasa inalazimishwa kuitwa genocide against Tutsis! Ili iwe kosa kuhesabu wahutu nao kama wahanga wa genocide. Kama watutsi wenyewe waliofiwa wanaomboleza vifo chini ya laki nne, hao kadiri ya laki nne mpaka 6 wengine ni akina nani? Serikali inajuaje kuwa hawa ni watutsi bila ushahidi wowote?
"But the recent volume of supposed 'Genocide Deniers Inc.' includes articles by some very accomplished and highly respected Rwanda scholars, including professors David Newbury, Catherine Newbury, and Dr. Scott Strauss. None of these accomplished academics have ever previously fallen anywhere near the category 'genocide deniers'." source: Pentagon releases satellite photos of 94 genocide

 

[MGOSI132]

Has the world learnt from 1994 Genocide? Canadian Lieutenant-General Roméo Dallaire, who was the Force Commander of the defunct UN Assistance Mission in Rwanda during the 1994 Genocide against the Tutsi, yesterday expressed frustrations on how the international community knew about the imminent killings but ignored the warnings. Dallaire was yesterday speaking at the first Kwibuka20 Global Conversation held at the UN headquarters in New York under the theme, “Genocide: A Preventable Crime.” The event was co-hosted by the Permanent Mission of Rwanda at the UN and the Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect. Dallaire spoke about how he issued an alert about the likely genocide in Rwanda 20 years ago but his concerns were ignored. “Western diplomats came to Rwanda in 1994 and told me: ‘There’s no strategic interest here,’” said Dallaire. He added: “The almost successful attempt of extermination was a deliberate action that we saw coming and watched. We were given the mandate to start going after the weapons stockpiles six days before the start of the Genocide.” However, he said, to date, the international community has not grasped prevention of mass atrocities, and talked of the need for a new conception framework of prevention. “We must create a new multi-dimensional framework of conflict and mass atrocity prevention,” he said, adding that middle powers must also re-engage to prevent mass atrocities. At the event, Rwanda’s ambassador to the US, Mathilde Mukantabana, said Rwanda’s tragic history has armed the nation with the zeal and determination to build a peaceful world. UN deputy chief Jan Eliasson also admitted there was an early warning issued by Gen. Dallaire but “he did not receive the response he needed and, above all, the response which the people of Rwanda needed.” Response mechanism Eliasson added that in 1993, a UN Special Rapporteur warned that all the precursors of genocide were visible in Rwanda, but the UN system and the world were not able to stop the events unfolding on the ground. “The consequences of failing to heed the warning signs were monumentally horrifying. We must never forget the collective failure to prevent the Genocide in Rwanda,” she said, adding that the UN has put in place several measures to ensure early response to warnings to avoid a repeat of what happened in Rwanda. Eugénie Mukeshimana, a Genocide survivor who was a student in Kigali at the time, said 20 years after the mayhem, it was impossible for her to escape the reality of the politics of the genocidal regime. Mukeshimana recounted life before 1994 pointing to the fact that the Genocide was not an overnight plan. “Walking to school, soldiers of the genocidal government asked, Who are you? Where are you from? We will get you,” she narrated. “How did we get to a point where a nation was chanting ‘we will exterminate you?’” Mukeshimana added that the culture of impunity was a factor in the Genocide in Rwanda. Years of atrocities against Tutsis were ignored. “What are we teaching the younger generations to help them see the world differently? We have the opportunity to act differently today. The genocide in Rwanda was a collective failure, and now we have the opportunity for a collective response. We have a chance to change the future, for our children,” she said. Meanwhile, latest reports indicate that Boutros Boutros-Ghali, the UN chief during the Genocide, decided not to share with the Security Council a fax message sent by the UN Mission in Kigali on the impeding genocide. The development was brought to light by former president of the Security Council Karel Kovanda, in a letter published in The New York Times. The fax was sent on January 11, 1994, warning of an “anti-Tutsi extermination” plot prepared from the highest levels of government. “Since I was president of the Security Council when the fax arrived, I confronted the secretary-general on this issue toward the end of 1995,” said Kovanda. “In a subsequent meeting also attended by Chinmaya Garekhan of the UN Secretariat and Boutros-Ghali’s right-hand man, the then UN chief stuck to his position. In the end, however, Boutros-Ghali conceded that the Americans, at least, had been informed, which in his view, should have been enough as far as the Security Council was concerned. It wasn’t,” disclosed Kovanda.

 

[jMali]

wewe sisimizi si ndio unajifanya unajua FACTS..mwambie huyo aweke hizo facts hapa sio kuweka vitu alivyoota usiku

unaniita sisimizi, dwanzi na majina mengine kedekede, lakini ukiitwa Cockroach bin Mende a.k.a Inyenzi utaanza kulia genocide na kuniita mhutu mara interahamwe ....