Ooh Poor NSSF!! - What is this?

[Kobello]

J meant were!

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Those companies are subsidized by the government,NSSF owns the government through treasury bonds and loans.
It's easier for politics to overshadow principles when the parastatal is broke.

Kobello fedha zote za NSSF zimedhaminiwa na serikali; as a matter of fact sheria iko wazi kabisa kuwa fedha za NSSF siyo za bodi bali ni za Serikali ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania na wanachama. Ndio maana NSSF haijali sana inawekeza wapi, inamdai nani wala nini..

 

[CHESEA INGINE]

Ninachokiona hapa ni kuwa hilin shirika linaendeshwa kisiasa zaidi. Sidhani kunatumika uchambuzi wa kitalaam kwa kutumia watalamu wetu wa chuo kikuu cha dar. Ninachokiona kama mashirika yetu haya hatafanya uwekezaji wao kwa kutumia uchambuzi wa wasomi wetu hapa nchini yatafilisika! Umefika wakati wadau wa hii mifuko (wachangiaji) wawe na uwakilishi katika bodi za hii mifuko.

 

[Nguruvi3]

Kobello fedha zote za NSSF zimedhaminiwa na serikali; as a matter of fact sheria iko wazi kabisa kuwa fedha za NSSF siyo za bodi bali ni za Serikali ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania na wanachama. Ndio maana NSSF haijali sana inawekeza wapi, inamdai nani wala nini..

Exactly!

Kobello, you should understand that companies like TTCL and TRC are not supposed to be subsidized by the government! Both have well established infrastructure and were given monopoly for so many years. Under perfect business environment they should be profit making orgnization and not the opposite.
I wonder if you have ever seen WB report on TTCL, probably it could shade some light.

Something you may not be aware of is that, NSSF (NPF) unlike Tanesco enjoys the advantage of government collecting money on their behalf. In fact it was mandatory for employee to join NPF a.k.a NSSF, unwittingly contributing until he/she is 65 years. The return from this investment is meager leaving behind hefty lump some generated by NSSF as profit.

So subsidizing the company is a government failure especially on management side. To give a flavor, the collapse of Air Tanzania is a cascade of management failure from President to begin with.

The performance of companies against each other goes beyond nominal comparative.

 

[Kobello]

I never said NSSF is privately owned!....The difference between these two is that,TANESCO is totally public,and is a liability to the public.
NSSF is a public institution with a private capital in it,since it's a three tier fund.Plus it's an asset to the public.The government won't approach NSSF as it will to TANESCO.

 

[Mdondoaji]

Najaribu Kufuatilia hii thread lakini kila nikija kwenye michango ya mdondoaji napoteza "trends of thought" na najikuta inabidi nirudi nyuma kwenye hoja ya msingi being discussed!......I think Mdondoaji is very clever, sidhani kama anaamini kweli kwamba Mwanakijiji anamatatizo na Dr. Dau kwasababu ya dini yake..ila lengo lake nikuuchanganya huu mjadala watu washindwe kuufutilia!!!

Mdondoaji please kosoa hoja sio mtoa hoja!!

I think it is sufficient to comment on one sentence that you think Mwanakijiji is discriminating against Muslims(as your opinion), but after that it is only fair if you either don't contribute any further or contribute constructively (criticise/support with solid points) on the substance of the issues being raised!!!

Mkuu,

Hembu niambie nikosoe hoja ipi hapo zaidi ya siasa tu zinazoletwa na Mwanakijiji? NSSF kosa lake liko wapi?
a. Je wamekiuka taratibu za uendeshaji?
b. Kuna ufisadi umefanyika?
c. If the problem is governance nafikiria hilo ni tatizo la nchi nzima na linatokana na mfumo wetu wa utawala wa mashirika ya umma na mifuko ya fedha. Ukisema NSSF imetawaliwa kisiasa huwezi kuwaacha PPF, PSPF, LAPF na GSPF.
d. Ukisema overinvestment wamefanya with respect to what (assets or liabilities)?

There is nothing in this thread that makes sense wakuu tatizo liko wapi hasa NSSF tukiweka katika jina moja, uongozi, utendaji au usimamizi? Mnabakia kuzungumza siasa tu ndio maana nakubaliana na zitto siasa zimezidi tanzania!!!

 

[Kobello]

Something you may not be aware of is that, NSSF (NPF) unlike Tanesco enjoys the advantage of government collecting money on their behalf. In fact it was mandatory for employee to join NPF a.k.a NSSF, unwittingly contributing until he/she is 65 years. The return from this investment is meager leaving behind hefty lump some generated by NSSF as profit.

In many countries it's a must to contribute to social security funds,so that you wont be a burden after retiring.In Tanzania,it's mandatory for government employees but I dont know about private an informal sector,last time I checked it was voluntary.
However,you can't really bring other companies like TTCL,TRC and ATC.The energy sector is different from transportation and communications(COMWORKS vs NISHATI).But let's focus on who is better positioned to own kiwira as we speak.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

I never said NSSF is privately owned!....The difference between these two is that,TANESCO is totally public,and is a liability to the public.
NSSF is a public institution with a private capital in it,since it's a three tier fund.Plus it's an asset to the public.The government won't approach NSSF as it will to TANESCO.

what Private capital? labda kuna kitu ambacho kinanipiga chenge.. as far as I know.. fedha yote iliyoko NSSF ni ya umma.

 

[Nguruvi3]

I never said NSSF is privately owned!....The difference between these two is that,TANESCO is totally public,and is a liability to the public.
NSSF is a public institution with a private capital in it,since it's a three tier fund.Plus it's an asset to the public.The government won't approach NSSF as it will to TANESCO.

what Private capital? labda kuna kitu ambacho kinanipiga chenge.. as far as I know.. fedha yote iliyoko NSSF ni ya umma.

Kobello, please could you help us.

 

[Kobello]

Through voluntary contributions as a suppliment to your deductions,thats considered private capital under ILO rules.NSSF is also allowed to involve informal sector and is now targeting the diaspora as a source of forex.
These things are not well known to most Tanzanian workers because NSSF is only covering 6% of the total Tanzania workforce.Government intervention can easily be reduced when the shareholders will fuly understand their rights under ILO and they can easily send their complaints.
Cmon!...you cant compare TANESCO to NSSF

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Mdondoaji, hata ufanye nini hawakuelewi. Thumun, Bukmun, Ummiyun.

 

[Chechetuka]

Sina imani na mkaguzi mkuu wa Mahebu ya Serikali. Huyu naye kishachakachuliwa. Inakuwaje Pinda aone matatizo ktk Chuo kikuu cha Dodoma, halafu eti mkaguzi mkuu wa mahesabu ya Serikali atoe clear certificate?

 

[Chechetuka]

Through voluntary contributions as a suppliment to your deductions,thats considered private capital under ILO rules.NSSF is also allowed to involve informal sector and is now targeting the diaspora as a source of forex.
These things are not well known to most Tanzanian workers because NSSF is only covering 6% of the total Tanzania workforce.Government intervention can easily be reduced when the shareholders will fuly understand their rights under ILO and they can easily send their complaints.
Cmon!...you cant compare TANESCO to NSSF

Je, Sera za NFFS zinairuhusu kufanya uwekezaji nje ya nchi? Rudia sakata la Jengo la Ubalozi wa Tanzania nchini Uingereza.

 

[Chechetuka]

Je, Sera za NFFS zinairuhusu kufanya uwekezaji nje ya nchi? Rudia sakata la Jengo la Ubalozi wa Tanzania nchini Uingereza.

Samahani naomba kurekebisha, ni matatiz ya typing kidogo. Nilikuwa na maana ya NSSF, na sio NFFS. Nawakilisha.

 

[Nguruvi3]

Mdondoaji, hata ufanye nini hawakuelewi. Thumun, Bukmun, Ummiyun.

Mtu anayepandikiza imani ndani ya masuala kama NSSF hataeleweka hata kidogo.Uwezo wa watu kufikiri ni zaidi ya hapo.

 

[jmushi1]

Mkuu,

Hembu niambie nikosoe hoja ipi hapo zaidi ya siasa tu zinazoletwa na Mwanakijiji? NSSF kosa lake liko wapi?
a. Je wamekiuka taratibu za uendeshaji?
b. Kuna ufisadi umefanyika?
c. If the problem is governance nafikiria hilo ni tatizo la nchi nzima na linatokana na mfumo wetu wa utawala wa mashirika ya umma na mifuko ya fedha. Ukisema NSSF imetawaliwa kisiasa huwezi kuwaacha PPF, PSPF, LAPF na GSPF.
d. Ukisema overinvestment wamefanya with respect to what (assets or liabilities)?

There is nothing in this thread that makes sense wakuu tatizo liko wapi hasa NSSF tukiweka katika jina moja, uongozi, utendaji au usimamizi? Mnabakia kuzungumza siasa tu ndio maana nakubaliana na zitto siasa zimezidi tanzania!!!

Serikali kwa kupitia hayo mashirika,inauwezo wa kuingilia uchumi,hilo si sawa for the free market economy...Halafu hapo hapo mali ya serikali ni yamafisadi na si ya wananchi tena.

 

[Kobello]

Yes! upon liberalisation of it's capital account,NSSF can invest in foreign markets.Uganda and Rwanda did!

 

[Kobello]

Sina imani na mkaguzi mkuu wa Mahebu ya Serikali. Huyu naye kishachakachuliwa. Inakuwaje Pinda aone matatizo ktk Chuo kikuu cha Dodoma, halafu eti mkaguzi mkuu wa mahesabu ya Serikali atoe clear certificate?

Hii ndiyo tunaita siasa!!....hebu tupeni vcersion yenu ya mustabali huu wa NSSF overinvestment,cause we need these 300mw at the end of the year ready for next kiangazi!!!

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Hii ndiyo tunaita siasa!!....hebu tupeni vcersion yenu ya mustabali huu wa NSSF overinvestment,cause we need these 300mw at the end of the year ready for next kiangazi!!!

Kobello, kwangu mimi udhaifu mkubwa uko kwenye sheria na muundo mzima wa NSSF ilivyo sasa. Ndio maana kati ya vitu ambavyo navipigania sana ni kwamba NSSF inahitaji major overhaul ili kuweza kuweka sheria nzuri zaidi ya Social Security Funds kwa nchi nzima ambayo itaweka taratibu za mifuko ya umma na ile ya binafsi. Lakini siyo hivyo tu bali pia muundo mzima wa NSSF (na hata mashirika mengine ya umma) una loop holes nyingi ambazo zinachangia na tayari zimechangia sana katika kudhoofisha mifuko hiyo -kiutendaji na kiutawala.

Mapendekezo yaliyotolewa na CAG mwaka 2008/2009 hadi leo hayajafanyiwa kazi. Mkaguzi mkuu alisema wazi kabisa kuwa baadhi ya uwekezaji wa NSSF ambao alisema "hauna tija"

Sera yetu ya Social Security Funds (ya mwaka 2003)sidhani kama imebadilika hadi leo ilitoa hukumu hii kuhusu masuala ya uwekezaji: (msisitizo wa mistari wangu)
2.4(b)
ix) Investment of Social Security Funds
There has been inadequate guidance on investment of social security fund at national level.

Ikasemwa kwenye hiyo policy guidelines kuwa :

3.12 Policy Issue: Investment of Social Security Funds
Investment of social security funds is an inseparable function of social security institutions. Sustainability of the schemes and
improvement of benefits depend on investment income. Social security funds have often been directed to areas where there is no stimulation of economic growth. There are no clear-cut guidelines directing investments of social security funds at the national level.

Na kuhusu utawala bora ripoti hiyo iliyosainiwa na Prof. Kapuya (akiwa waziri wa kazi wakati ule) inasema:

3.13 Policy Issue: Good Governance
Good governance is the key to smooth functioning and efficiency in all social security schemes, as they are entrusted to manage funds on behalf of the contributors. There has been poor governance in social security services.

Sasa, haya si mambo ya leo tu; kumbuka kuwa hiyo ilikuwa ni ripoti ya sera ya 2003 na ripoti ya CAG ya 2007/2008 na mwaka iliyofuatia yote imejikuta na matatizo yale yale. Tunasubiri kuona ripoti ya 2009/2010 itakuwaje.

Katika mkutano mmoja wa kimataifa huko Ufaransa mwaka 2008 Bw. Baruti (Meneja wa Mipango na Uwekezaji) wa LAPF (Local Authority Pensions Fund) alisema hivi kuhusu mambo ya uwekezaji na mifuko ya jamii:

[FONT=Garamond, serif]The challenges facing Tanzanian social security system include uneven benefit[/FONT][FONT=Garamond, serif] packages among the existing SSIs, inadequately regulated investment activities, limited coverage and the role of SSIs in the fight against poverty. In responding to these challenges, some of these SSIs have implemented parametric reforms in an attempt to adapt to changes brought about by the changing socio-economic environment. Consequently, the scope and depth of benefits have increased. Others have amended their respective legislation to cover sectors previously not covered by these schemes. The recent reform initiative is the formulation of Social Security (Regulatory Authority) Bill of 2008, which is expected to be enacted in 2008. The Act will establish the regulator of social security.[/FONT]

[FONT=Garamond, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Garamond, serif]Huyo regulator ndiyo hii bodi iliyozinduliwa juzi na Rais. Bahati mbaya sijapata nafasi ya kuipitia sheria yake kuweza kuona ni kwa jinsi gani inajibu swali la "adequacy" katika masuala ya kusimamia uwekezaji. [/FONT] Maana tayari tatizo moja ambalo limeshaonekana ni kuwa sheria nyingi za hizo Pension Funds haziitambui bodi hiyo - hivyo zinahitaji zenyewe kufanyiwa mabadiliko kwanza!

Mabadiliko ya NSSF ni lazima kama kweli tunaitakia mema na tunawatakia mema wanachama wake. Mifano uliyotoa kwa mfano ya Rwanda, ni mizuri lakini wenzetu walifanya mabadiliko sheria yao na hata muundo wao miaka miwili au mitatu iliyopita na mabadiliko yao yanaendelea - mengi yatakuwa yanakamilika mwaka huu. Nchi kama Malaysia ambayo huwa inatolewa mfano sheria yao iko tofauti na ya kwetu katika masuala ya uwekezaji.

Kwa vile nchi nyingine zinawekeza mahali fulani haina maana na sisi tufuate tu bila ya kuangalia the legal framework or structural make up ya mifuko yao. Ninachoogopa mimi ni haya madai kuwa "nchi fulani wanafanya" basi na sisi tufanye hata kama mifumo na sheria zetu zina tofauti kubwa. Hakuna mtu ambaye anasema NSSF isiwekeze mahali popote - itakuwa haina maana kwa mfuko wa hifadhi ya jamii; baadhi yetu tunajua tatizo letu lilipo sasa hivi na kwanini kabla hatujaingia kwenye matatizo huko mbeleni ni bora kufanya mabadiliko ya msingi sasa hivi ili kwamba tupunguze risk ya kwenda vibaya huko mbele. Wengine hapa wanasema uwekezaji ni "risk" na hivyo tuwekeze tu - bila kujali risk iliyopo.

Huku ni kutokuwajibika. Tayari tumeshaona matatizo mengi kwenye sekta ya nishati; hili haliitaji mtu kushawishiwa sana. Na NSSF inataka kuwekeza kwenye nishati kwa kutumia fedha za umma. Well.. what are the chances kwamba kitu kinaweza kwenda vibaya huko mbeleni? - wapo wanaosema "nothing will go wrong" na wengine wanasema "yeah.. inaweza kwenda vibaya lakini ndiyo sababu ya risk katika investment". Wengine tupo tunasema "tufanye jitihada za kubadilisha sheria na miundo yetu mbalimbali ili kupunguza uwezekano wa kitu kwenda kombo".

Watu hawataki wanasema "tuwekeze tu kwa sababu fedha zipo". This is being irresponsible.

 

[Kobello]

I understand,
The reason I brought up other countries is to show you that SSFs learn from each other.What is needed is shareholders participation,currently CHADEMA legislators represents majority of shareholders and they really need to push the POAC,which is steered by one of their MPs to make sure the overhaul attracts more private and informal sector just to reflect the current market system.
All over the world,SSFs are going through a lot of changes,,Europe.US...it's the same thing.But at the same time,they fought so hard not to totally privatise them.I automatically pay SS and I still have to pay for my 401K,which was a good deal till wallstreet messed it up!!
All in all,SSFs are very susceptible to the market,either privately owned or public owned.Tell them Mwanakijiji,over here the wallstreet is as political as the Chinese communist party.