Mbowe vs Chifupa + CHADEMA vs Family Business

[Jasusi]

Chinga,
Ahmed Rajab bado anadunda Africa Analysis pale London. Hawezi kufukuzwa kwa sababu yeye ndiye anayemiliki hiyo Newsletter.

Kikwete alitishia tu kuifungulia mashtaka but he never did that. Kwa hiyo the story still stands.

 

[Mkandara]

Ndabita,
Ndugu yangu usitufunge kamba hapa.
Vyama wanachama wa International Democtats Union sii wote Conservative wala vina malengo sawa.

No way bob, ila kuna vingi vyenye misingi ya Kidini - Christian kuliko hiyo Conservative.

Sasa swali linakuja Chadema wamesimama wapi hapa ktk kujiunga na shirikisho hilo?

 

[tafiti then jadili]

At last naona kuna mambo ya hoja na utafiti nk hii ndio mijadala inatia raha sio kusoma ''madongo'' baina ya wajumbe!

Naam naomba kukuweka sawa bwana Jasusi kuhusu habari ya JK kupokea misaada kutoka Iran, hii habari nadhani haikuwa ya kweli manake haikuwa proved. Kama walivyosema wengine kumewekwa link ya hadithi nadhani na mjumbe mwingine lakini hiyo link ni ya habari kwamba kuna mtu anaweka assertions kwamba kikwete kapata misaada, sio ushahidi ni kwamba kuna ongezeko la watoa shutuma bado haijawa ushahidi kamili.

Pia gazeti la AFRICAN ANALYSIS halimilikiwi na AHMED RAJAB alikuwa kaajiriwa kama mhariri wa habari za afrika na wamiliki ni wanigeria, in fact mmiliki haswa ni mshauri wa masuala ya ulinzi wa Rais Obasanjo wa Nigeria, gazeti hilo halikuwa likiperform vizuri sales wise na Ahmed Rajab akaondoka.

Hivi sasa ni consultant wa UN yupo Dubai.

Hii habari ya mafedha ya Iran niliwahi kuisoma the original version na haina mashiko kama wengi wanavyopenda iwe. Nitaandika zaidi soon...

 

[Kitila Mkumbo]

I have read more than twice the first post introducing this topic (by Dr WHO). I still don't get the message. What is the issue here, is it CHADEMA having political partnership with Conservatives or CHADEMA pursuing similar policies as those of the Conservatives?

Dr Who could you please clarify before I react to your question more sensibly?

 

[ndabita]

Ndabita,
Ndugu yangu usitufunge kamba hapa.
Vyama wanachama wa International Democtats Union sii wote Conservative wala vina malengo sawa. No way bob, ila kuna vingi vyenye misingi ya Kidini - Christian kuliko hiyo Conservative.
Sasa swali linakuja Chadema wamesimama wapi hapa ktk kujiunga na shirikisho hilo?

Sijafunga kamba mtu mimi hapa. Wala sijasema kuwa wanachama wote wa IDU ni conservatives. Soma tena thread yangu. Hayo ni maneno yako. IDU ni umoja wa vyama vyenye kufuata mrengo wa kati Kati-Kulia (Centre and centre right parties). Chama kama CDU cha Ujerumani ni christian dmeocrats - kwa jina haina maana ni chama cha mrengo wa kidini, bali ni chama cha Kihafidhina (Conservative). Usibabaike na majina ndugu yangu: Liberal Party of Australia ni Conservative Party, lakini ukisoma jina lake tu unaweza kuconclude kuwa ni Liberal.

CHADEMA ni chama kinachofuata itikadi ya mrenngo wa kati. CHADEMA inaamini katika mfumo wa soko linalojali (social market economy/Fair market economy). Hakifuati ubebari uliokubuhu n awala hakitaki mfumo hodhi (centralised economy). Kimsingi CHADEMA sio chama cha kihafidhina. It is stupidity, in a country like Tanzania kuwa na chama cha Kibepari/Kihafidhina. CHADEMA, to best of my knowledge ni chama cha mrengo wa kati kinachoamini katika kuendesha uchumi kiufanisi na kwamba ukuaji wa uchumi unufaishe wananchi wengi.Kivipi? Wananchi wengi kushiriki katika shughuli za kiuchumi ndio njia pekee ya kuwafanya wananchi wafaidi matnda ya kukua kwa uchumi.

Sasa ndugu yangu Mkandara, sijui nimedanganya wapi? Nimesema ukweli ninaoujua. Prove otherwise. Lakini mimi naamini kabisa kuwa nina authority katika nini nimesema na wala si hisia......

 

[Jasusi]

Tafiti,
Thanks. That's the way the debate's supposed to go na kuwekana sawa.
I will wait for your return.

 

[William J. Malecela]

Mzee Wooooh!,

Swali la Mwanasiasa ni valid, hebu fafanua kidogo ndugu yangu?

Mzee Ndabita,

Pamoaj na kwamba kihoja sikubaliani na mengi unayosema, lakini I like the MAWe!!!! part keep it up, na karibu uendelee kuwepo hapa tumkome nyani usoni!

 

[William J. Malecela]

Eti what?

Yaani wakati ule wa kampeni kambi ya mtandao walitishia kulishitaki gazeti hilo kwa sababu ya kuandika hadithi ambayo haina mshiko?

Is that right au there is something I am missing??

 

[Mgumu]

Mbowe ni zaidi, kamwe hawezi kufananishwa na mwanasiasa AC

Mbowe amedhihirisha kuwa kiongozi makini mpaka kuichanganya sisiem,ameingoza chadema kwa ufanisi, ni bingwa wa kujenga hoja, uliza wasomi wa chuo kikuu, Mbowe anaunguruma si kitoto jamaa wanamkubali, lini AC alihutubia wasoni wa mlimani.

JK anamjua vema Mbowe, ndio maana mizingwe ilifanywa ili kufuta mdahalo wa wagombea uraisi 2005, mzee mzema angeumbuka kama mzee mrema 1995, kutokana na ukali wa Mbowe kujenga hoja JK aliingia mitini.

AC amedhiirisha kuwa bingwa wa kudesa, majina ya wazungu wa unga tayari yalikuwa kwa mwenyekiti wake wa chama, kutokana na ukilaza wake akaamua kurukia hoja ili ajenge umaarufu kwa kazi ya ilifanywa kwa ufanisi na wengine, kwanini asijenge hoja mpya, hoja siko nyingi tu, unyama waliofanyiwa wamachinga kuwatupa pembezoni pasipo na fidia, kisheria hawa jamaa tayari walikuwa wameshatengeneza goodwill, kama ingekuwa ni kuwaamisha wazungu 'wawekezaji' fidia kubwa ingelipwa. CCM wameshindwa kuhamia dodoma sababu ikiwa maandalizi hayajakamilika, mbona chinga waliamishwa pasi na maandalizi?

Kuhusu pesa za chadema kwenye uchaguzi, ni vyema tukihoji, lakini kwa sisem hoja hii inaweza kuwatokea puani, Kwani ile kesi aliyofungua JK mahakama ya UK imefikia wapi, JK na wenzake 10 kwenye kinyang'iro cha uraisi ccm walipata wapi pesa za kampen, CCM walitumia kiasi gani kufanisha duru ya mwisho ya uchaguzi, wana bodi leteni data

 

[tafiti then jadili]

Hili ni jarida ambalo lilikuwa [because now the magazine is as good as dead] linasomwa na watu wengi sana including politicians, academicians and researchers and the like...

Sasa Ahmed Rajab kama watu hawamjui yeye ameondoka tanzania miaka zaidi ya arobaini iliyopita, hana mwandishi tanzania na ni rafiki mkubwa wa Salim Ahmed Salim, hata Salim katika ziara zake binafsi london hufikia kwa Ahmed Rajb pale Cockfosters, you can guess wapi angesupport wakati wa kampeni.

Salim alichafuliwa sana na hakuwa na LLOBBY JOURNALISTS wanaoumuunga mkono kwa tz, rafiki yake akaamua kutake control na kuanza kumchafua Kikwete, bila shaka JK alikuwa na good PR throughout kwa hiyo it was natural kwa yeye kutishia kushtaki na as a politician he had to refute the allegations.

Halafu article haikusema kama kapewa milioni ishirini, hizi ni hela ambazo kikwete alitishia kuzidai mahakamani kama fidia, watu wawe na record nzuri kuandika humu.

Ahmed Rajab habari ile ilimuharibia mambo mengi tu manake wanigeria owners hawakufurahi gazeti lao kutumika kama publicity machinery kuserve the interest of the editor!

Hakukuwa na jipya kwa aliesoma makala ya ahmed rajab ataona...

 

[Kitila Mkumbo]

I like the spirit of demanding evidence as advocated by tafiti. Hiyo ndiyo ilipaswa kuwa dira ya hii forum. Wakati mwingine wengine tunashindwa kuchangia hoja maana inakuwa haina mguu wala kichwa, ni uswaaaaaaaili tu!

Congrats and thanks tafiti, keep on researchin..

 

[Phillemon Mikael]

[/B]II

I think we are being lambs to be taken in aride with this silly boy chinga imeonyesha namna gani una pupa katika kuleta hoja zako ,we are reduced to a FORUM OF GOSSIPERS by huyu kijana ,you simple minded people talk about people.

chinga maswali yako ni mazuri ila kwa namna ulivyoyaleta hata mimi nisingejibu kwa sababu hayana utaratibu,yanaonesha kama vile mtu luliyekua a kiu ukapata maji.

sasa kwa ujumla lazima kama wanaforum naomba nitoe maoni kuwa ,tungependa kuifanya hii forum iwe na influence katika maamuzi mbalimbali kwenye nchi yetu ,na nja ya kufanya hivyo ni kwa kujitahidi kuwavutia watu mbalimbali kama wanasiasa, watawala, wastaafu, waelelezi, analysts, wasomi, wanafunzi, wakulima, masheikh, maaskofu ets and the only way to encourage this guys is by being tactical in asking our questions like watu wastaarabu ,so as not to scare them ,,,and the only way to this nikuwapa ushauri watu kama chinga ,huyu anaonekana ni mjenga hoja mzuri ila kama akijirekebisha kidogo ataleta changamoto ,,tunataka viongozi wote waje forum ili wabebe ushauri wetu adimu ila tukitaka mawazo yetu mazuri yataishia hapahapa.

moja ya hoja za kijinga ni kama kutukalisha wanaume na ma... yetu kujadili nani zaidi kati ya amina na mbowe ,,,ungemuuliza kwanza mume wa ammina mpakanjiwa[aliyeishia darasa la nne] na dr lilian mke wa mbowe ,ndio wanawajua...

sasa chinga look leo tunaadhimisha miaka 45 ya uhuru ,umeshawahi kujiuliza ..tumepiga hatua kiasi gani kimaendeleo?? je wakoloni hawakufanya hata moja zuri??? je maendeleo tuliyoyapata yanatosha kujivuna leo hii???[hadi kutumia tzs bilioni 2,kupiga fataki na kuwazalisha tracksuit vijana 4,000 kila track moja wamenunua kwa tzs 65,000] je tufanyeje .,whats the way forwad ??? je uchumi wetu umeadhiriwa na nini njaa? vita vya ukombozi??? vya kagera ??? rushwa???? kata issue ili kama majina ya watu yatokee kwenye issue sio kufananisha sura hapa???

 

[William J. Malecela]

Mzee Tafit,

Lovely, hiyo uliyoiweka hapo juu ni authority tosha on the issue ya gazeti hilo la huko kwenu London, sasa kama kuna mwenye hoja ya kuweza kuipiku hiyo authority yako aje na hoja tuzione, mimi binafsi inanitosha as far as hii issue ya hela za Iran na gazeti hilo tu,

ingawa haimaanishi kuwa ndiyo authority ya issue nzima ya hela za Iran, lakini respect kwenye hilo, so far!

 

[Jasusi]

Tafiti,
Thanks for the info. Hata mimi nilijua Ahmed alikuwa akimfagilia Salim. He gave the impression he owned Africa Analysis, sikujua ni la Wanigeria.

 

[Game Theory]

QUARTZ wrote: watu wengi wanafikiri hii forum inasomwa na watanzania pekee,hawajui kuwa kuna watu wa mataifa mengine wanasoma humu kama wakenya, waganda, warwanda...mfano kunasiku nilikuta mke wa professor mbilinyi(mzungu) ameweka post yake mahali fualani.sasa wageni hawa wanapokuja kusoma humu na kuona mitazamo ya watanzania na jinsi tunavyojenga hoja ni wazi kuwa tunajiabisha.

Tafadhali naomba link ya maneno aliyoyaandika Majorie humu

 

[Game Theory]

By the way on a flip side about 1 month baada ya JK kuchukua nchi mnajua kuwa huyo Ahmed Rajab alibadili kambi na kuandika makala maridhawa ya kumsifia JK kwenye Financial Times?

Nilipoisoma ile sikuamini kkilichokuwa kikiendelea lakini baadae nikagundua kuwa yote ni katika kujiunga na team JK

Gazeti la Africa Analysis nadhani liko overpriced sana ndio maana haliuziki ndio maana mimi huwa naliiita Kijarida badala ya gazeti lakini ukweli ni kuwa lina unchambuzi wa nchi nyingi za Africa, Then kulikuwa na AFRICA CONFIDENTIAL ambalo sijui nalo liliishia wapi

 

[quarz]

this link has the post of mrs mbilinyi
http://jamboforums.jamboo.co.tz/showthread.php?t=332
she is also a member of this forum.

 

[mTz]

Dr Who, link ya Africa Confidential http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/loi/AFCO Kama ukipata article of interest niambie nikutumie kama utakuwa huna subscription

 

[Game Theory]

I have read more than twice the first post introducing this topic (by Dr WHO). I still don't get the message. What is the issue here, is it CHADEMA having political partnership with Conservatives or CHADEMA pursuing similar policies as those of the Conservatives? Dr Who could you please clarify before I react to your question more sensibly?

MWANSIASA

Having partnership with Conservatives MEANS that they will in one way or another pursue similar policies as those of the tories and Mr Mbowe did not hide this when he came to London last Summer.

Now as i said earlier its not illegal for any party in Tanzania to form alliance with any party in the world but this will only take place if you share same ideology and this is where i have a problem with this marriage between CHADEMA & CONSERVATIVES in UK and REPUBLICANS in the United States.

Opinions on this issue is of course going to vary from person to person. Personally to me, the Party symbol of hand holding torch has a whiff of fascism about it - have a look at some of the images used by Right-wing and nationalist groups in Europe between the wars. I think Cameron saw this and now they have changed their symbol to a tree to show their Green credentials

I think the Party would like to see itself projected as two different things - traditional, i.e: representing a core set of beliefs and principals and evolutionary in the sense of taking these core values and using them to inform the world we live in today.Mind you the "core" electorate for the Conservatives represents around 30% - it is predominantely white and elderly (65+) though there are pockets of support among younger voters (18s to 24s, who often see the world in very simple terms).

In terms of social groups, the traditional predominance of Tory support among the wealthy has eroded somewhat in recent times and the ABC1 social groups are much less Tory than they were. Managers and professionals were very strongly Tory up to 1997 but have swung to Labour. Paradoxically,to be fair Tory support has recovered best among the C2DE groups which were traditionally strongest Labour constituencies. Now this confuses me alot when i look at CHADEMA which seems to be fairly liberal and tries to be intouch with young and working class people while the conservatives arent interested with this sort of group.

Now MWANASIASA i am talking about a political party that is often courted by the anti African media outlets such as The Daily Telegraph, Daily Mail,The Express and The Sun this speaks volume about their attitudes towards minorities and this is what has been 'alleged' about CHADEMA and their elitist credentials


I still wonder it it was an alliance based on ideology or what?

 

[Game Theory]

Quartz

thanks for the link and i will go through what she wrote..will keep you posted



Mtz

Mimi mwenzio nataka kusoma the whole thing wala sitochagua which is which lakini hao wanataka walipwe hahilo ni tatizo