Manchester United (Red Devils) | Special Thread

Manchester United (Red Devils) | Special Thread

thedon said:
Moyes is gone and I for one am delighted to fcukin bits. Forget the whole "honourable thing to do" bullshit, the guy was not good enough and he had to go. Honestly I wasn't sure if the Glazers were going to fire him but looking back I would be surprised if they had done anything else differently.

First of all the idea that United are different from other clubs when it comes to dealing with managers is completely outdated. People thinking along those line are stuck in a nostalgic ideal world that seized to exist decades ago and United fans have SAF to thank for shielding us from that harsh reality for the past 27 years. Football is a business, a result-based business at that, so deal with it. Take into account the stature of United and the success they have enjoyed for the past twenty-odd years then you see that it is absolutely naive to think that United owed Moyes anything after the way he performed.

Yes SAF was given time but I've said it before and I'll say it again, it was a completely different situation. For one he wasn't taking overCHAMP20NS!. Someone has already mentioned it here, "SAF took over a mid-table team full of alcoholics". Secondly, people are ignoring the pedigree with which SAF came to United with. The man had a decent career as a player and was a proven winner as a manager, can you say the same for Moyes on both accounts? NO! At best Moyes is a good manager that is suited for teams with Premiership mediocrity ambitions, not the kind of ambitions and standards required at United. Moyes will make you stable but he wont get the best out of the team,to prove this point look at what Martinez is doing with Moyes' own players (minus their best player from last season) at Everton. Fine! Give him an extra season and let him bring "his own players", but why would you do that if another coach is proving right now that it's possible to get even more from players that Moyes had and therefore the players he will bring might even perform better under a different manager?

Also don't buy this whole "it was always going to be tough" line we are being fed by the sympathetic British media. Had Moyes been a foreign manager the abuse and scrutiny he would have endured by now would have been nothing short of public execution, just ask AVB.

Just at the tail end of last season the Legend himself had this to say:

"It was important to me to leave an organization in the strongest possible shape and I believe I have done so," he said. "The quality of this league winning squad, and the balance of ages within it, bodes well for continued success at the highest level."

Now we are to believe that the squad is shit? Hell NO! I keep hearing that the team is old and not good enough and all that, but c'mon! Besides Giggs and Rio who else in the current squad can we say that they are too old to perform? And how much of an input have they had this season so that we can say they negatively affected the team? John Terry and Lampard are old how come we haven't heard Mourinho complaining? How about Gerrad? I bet he is 25 eh!? These players are capable of more and they know it just as we know it. Them not performing to standard is that the players fault of is it the manager's? I don't know, but the way I see it is that it's the managers job to inspire confidence in his players and get them to buy into his philosophy. Only conclusion is that Moyes failed in getting them to fight for him. With that being said players are still supposed to put in 100% when they play and shame on them for the times they did not this season, but at the same time they are human beings as well. How many times in our jobs have we felt that our bosses are complete tossers and have no clue in what they are doing? And can all of us say that we still put in 100% in those situations? I bet not many.

This was supposed to be a transition period for the club, a few tweaks here and there, a couple of new players (3-4 max), maybe miss out on the Premiership but keep in pace with rivals, but by mid-season Moyes had people believing that the club needed a complete overhaul. Don't buy that load of crock, not even for a second! No one with a sound mind expected Moyes to win the league, but c'mon! Top-four and a good cup run was definitely not out of his reach and he shat the bed.

From what I'm reading it seems as if the decision was made a long time ago, but they were waiting for it to become mathematically impossible for the team to qualify for the champions league, which apparently would activate a clause in the contract that will limit the compensation package he is to be paid (smart business on the Glazer's part). It seems people within the club including the players knew this, which could explain their indifference during their last performance.

Even SAF has been quite over this whole thing and he was one of the more vocal supporters of Moyes but I bet he knew the conditions required for Moyes to keep his job (top-four finish) and poor guy thought that was easy enough, that's why he stuck his neck out for this guy when he asked the fans to "stand by the manager". And if that's the case, that Moyes had to at least keep the team in the top four, then it makes sense why SAF and Bobby Charlton have not come out and condemned his sacking, but maybe they will. Bottom line is that it seems that as much as we were made to believe that Moyes had the backing of the club the truth was that he had that backing only to a certain degree and he did not meet the expectations needed for that support to continue.

For those fans of other clubs saying United is wrong in doing this, we all know you are saying that because #Moyesin is a way more appealing prospect for your respective clubs than #Moyesout.

As far as who the new manager should be, I have no idea. Klopp seems like the obvious choice but he seems determined to stay in Dortmund. Van Gaal would be good, but he doesn't strike me as a long term solution. Maybe go for Van Gaal for the next few years while the club works on promoting someone from inside the club (maybe Giggs, or G-Nev). But for sure I would prefer for the search to be done before the World Cup, that way the new manager has some time to try and get a few players.

I suppose this is what fans of other clubs are used to and they know how to deal with it. Someone had actually raised the question whether the stability of United is actually what hurt United more than anything else? Because other clubs are used to these quick cycles of managers and thus their players adapt easier to managerial changes than what United players showed. It's definitely and interesting theory.

Sorry if this reads a bit like some "dear-John" type of letter but I haven't posted on here for a few weeks. Enjoy the ride fellow REDS! It's an unprecedented time in our club's history, at-least for those of us that only know of the Ferguson and post-Ferguson era.

Cheers!
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Oooh Oooh best post ya msimu wa 2013/2014
Kwa wale wote waliokua wanamtetea Moyes..get that..!!
Na kama unadhani bado unachakusema/ kumtetea Moyes after this lovely post I doubt if you are really a MUFC fan
 
Ngongoseke said:
Wangempa muda Moyes mapema sana wamemtimua, ukitazama uchezaji wa man msimu huu lawama nyingi wapewe maplayer tena wenye majina sana wameharibu,
Moyes alitakiwa apewe fungu lakutosha msimu ujao naamini angebadili timu
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Watu wanasahau 'fungu" alilotumia Moyes kuwaleta Mata na Fellaini, karibu na 70 million euros. Kumbuka mpira ni biashara. We jumlisha 70 million + (100-200) million ya wachezaji wapya, hafu kumbuka kuna pato la Champions League ambalo halitaingia msimu ujao (40-60) million. Bado hasara ya timu kushuka profile na stock prices kutokana na matokeo mabaya. Jumla yake ni investment ya karibu 300 million euros na kuzidi. Sasa niambie kama kweli kuna mtu mfanyabiashara mwenye akili timamu anaweza kurisk kiasi hicho cha mapato kwa dalili alizoonyesha Moyes!? Pointi watu wanayo-ignore ni kwamba Moyes kufukuzwa is straight-up business nothing personal.

Nilikuwa nahisi, na naona kunawezekana kuwa na ukweli kwenye makadirio yangu, kuwa hata SAF mwenyewe amekubaliana na uamuzi huo. Soma habari hiyo: Sir Alex Ferguson agreed David Moyes had to be sacked as Manchester United manager in secret hotel meeting | Mail Online.
 
thedon said:
Watu wanasahau 'fungu" alilotumia Moyes kuwaleta Mata na Fellaini, karibu na 70 million euros. Kumbuka mpira ni biashara. We jumlisha 70 million + (100-200) million ya wachezaji wapya, hafu kumbuka kuna pato la Champions League ambalo halitaingia msimu ujao (40-60) million. Bado hasara ya timu kushuka profile na stock prices kutokana na matokeo mabaya. Jumla yake ni investment ya karibu 300 million euros na kuzidi. Sasa niambie kama kweli kuna mtu mfanyabiashara mwenye akili timamu anaweza kurisk kiasi hicho cha mapato kwa dalili alizoonyesha Moyes!? Pointi watu wanayo-ignore ni kwamba Moyes kufukuzwa is straight-up business nothing personal.

Nilikuwa nahisi, na naona kunawezekana kuwa na ukweli kwenye makadirio yangu, kuwa hata SAF mwenyewe amekubaliana na uamuzi huo. Soma habari hiyo: Sir Alex Ferguson agreed David Moyes had to be sacked as Manchester United manager in secret hotel meeting | Mail Online.
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To make things worse enough ndani ya miezi 11 Moyes aliyokabidhiwa Man United hakuna narudia tena HAKUNA mabadiriko chanya ya uchezaji aliyoleta kwenye timu..
Manchester tumekua na worst performance of the history ndani ya muda mchache...
Moyes is a mid-table mind manager he didn't have any clue whatsoever to make Manchester performs on it's pick...uliangalia hata body language yake anapokua kwenye touchline..ukisikiliza press zake..ukiangalia team selection..kila siku ilikua "let's try to win " or "we will bounce back the next game" come-on Moyes was definitely the wrong choice to go with...we keep waiting lini ataanza kupull the trigger..lini tutaanza kuaona what he has in his closet lakini wapi..kila siku we keep going from bad to worse...there was no any promising future out him...no wonder SAF hasn't comment on Moyes axed..hata ye ameona his hand pick was a disaster..
 
Mbeky said:
.....Manchester tumekua na worst performance of the history ndani ya muda mchache...
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Na hiyo ndio imekuwa ikituumiza sana mashabiki wa timu hii. Yaani msimu huu kila timu almost imevinja rekodi kwa Man U. In fact, better that he has quit.
 
rubaman said:
Naona kumetulia hapa, hamjapata kocha mpya?
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ImageUploadedByJamiiForums1398278303.231566.jpg
 
Duh sijawahi kuona hii thread ikiwa kimya namna hii. Inaelekea wale wapenzi wa timu inayobeba makombe wana consider kurudi Liverpool mwakani sababu wameshaona dalili za nyakati mdidimio wa soka toka Old Trafford.
 
rubaman said:
Duh sijawahi kuona hii thread ikiwa kimya namna hii. Inaelekea wale wapenzi wa timu inayobeba makombe wana consider kurudi Liverpool mwakani sababu wameshaona dalili za nyakati mdidimio wa soka toka Old Trafford.
Click to expand...

Tupo sana...wasiwasi wako tu...

Vipi Aseno Chenga ameshapewa mkataba mpya?
 
rubaman said:
Duh sijawahi kuona hii thread ikiwa kimya namna hii. Inaelekea wale wapenzi wa timu inayobeba makombe wana consider kurudi Liverpool mwakani sababu wameshaona dalili za nyakati mdidimio wa soka toka Old Trafford.
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Njoo matchday afu tuone.
 
It's vital that Man Utd find a director of football

Posted by Gabriele Marcotti
Dear Joel and Avram (and if you're reading this, Malcolm, Linda, Edward, Darcie, Bryan and Kevin, too),

You guys are the Glazers. You own Manchester United and this is, no doubt, a trying time. You have just parted ways with your manager, David Moyes, and you need to find a successor. Take this as an open letter filled with unsolicited, but well-meaning, advice.

According to reports, you will make your decision with input from Sir Alex Ferguson, David Gill, Sir Bobby Charlton, Ryan Giggs and Ed Woodward, but I assume it's still ultimately your decision. So please consider the following.

How about, before picking a manager, you pick somebody above him?

Call it a director of football. Or general manager. Or head of football operations. Or executive executive. Heck, call him Barney, if you like. It really doesn't matter what you call it.

It does matter that you bring in somebody respected, intelligent and loyal. Ideally it would be someone who knows his way around agents and transfers and who understands budgets and balance sheets. Someone who is a diplomat, who can defuse internal tensions when needed or, if necessary, knock heads.

Someone who is as comfortable talking to Wayne Rooney, Shady Super Agent X (yep, you've probably figured out by now there are times when you need to get dirty), the supporters and the media.

Someone who has a clear vision and a philosophy of football you believe works, and who you trust to bring in a manager who shares it. But also someone humble enough to dispense with a new manager and admit his mistake if things don't work out.

soc_g_glaz_576x324.jpg

It's vital that the Glazers get more than the next manager right; they need to hire a director of football also.

I know. In England, there is the cult of the manager and so much of the punditocracy view directors of football (or whatever title you choose) as something weird and foreign.

And sure, Sir Alex didn't need a director of football. But -- and you've probably figured this out by now -- Sir Alex was a freak, an outlier, an exception. Whatever manager you get, he won't be Sir Alex. Just because things worked a certain way for him doesn't mean they'll work the same for someone else.

The fact is, the era of the omnipotent, omniscient uber-manager who controls every aspect of the club is over. It's not just a foreign thing. Look at the clubs above you in the table. Tottenham Hotspur have one. So do Chelsea and Manchester City. Liverpool don't, but they have a "transfer committee" which does some of the same things. West Bromwich Albion have one, so do Crystal Palace.

What's that you say? Arsenal don't have one? No, but they had a guy in David Dein who essentially filled the role I'm talking about. He left the club in 2007. They haven't won anything since.

Directors of football (or their equivalents) exist in almost every sport everywhere in the world. And in football, they exist almost everywhere outside England. There's a reason for it.

Recruiting talent requires a different skill set from coaching talent. Once upon a time when clubs rarely acquired players from abroad, it wasn't a big deal. A manager would get to personally watch every player in the league at least twice a season. He could easily go and catch a few more games on off nights if needed. He had two or three trusted scouts or assistants who could fill in the gaps.

soc_g_dein_576x324.jpg

David Dein wasn't a Director of Football, per se, but his work fulfilled many of the same functions. Arsenal haven't won without him.

Initially, there were no agents, which meant you could negotiate directly with another manager and with the player himself. And once they came into the game it was no big deal, because it was the same, tight group of guys everybody knew.

The game has changed. Your club has armies of scouts in every corner of the globe. They can flag players, but somebody needs to come in, make an initial evaluation, figure out how much they're worth and how much they cost, and then, if they're worth pursuing, conduct a negotiation without getting fleeced. To do this, they need expertise, contacts and eyeballs. They need miles on the road watching players, talking to scouts and agents.

Do you really think the same guy who has to worry about his 25-man squad, playing twice a week and preparing for his opponents has the time, energy and -- above all -- aptitude to do all that?

Remember January when Moyes went off on his European tour, flying to Bordeaux, Cagliari and Moenchengladbach to "scout" players? Do you really think that was the best use of his time? What if somebody with the same gravitas as the manager, who could represent the club equally well and who could make such trips far more often, had been sent out on the road and the manager stayed home and focused on working with his players on the training pitch?

I know, I know. Sir Alex didn't need such a figure. Well, Sir Alex also had close relationships with key people he trusted. Relationships he built up in nearly three decades at the helm. He delegated plenty. And besides, he was Sir Alex. He was a one-off.

The fact is that most managers can't do it, so they get friendly agents to act as de facto directors of football. Or they mostly just sign guys they've worked with before. In both cases, they'll tell you that it's because they "trust" them. In both cases you don't need me to tell you that it's not a good idea. An agent acting as a director of football has an obvious conflict of interest. A manager who limits himself to guys he already knows isn't exploring the full range of possibilities.

soc_woodward_moyes_d1_576x324.jpg

AllsportIt's possible that Woodward and Moyes could have secured better transfer deals had they been working with a Director of Football.

Look at what occurred last summer. You had a manager preoccupied with a zillion different things and a chief executive (Woodward) who was brilliant at securing lucrative sponsorships but a novice when it came to transfers.

What happened? They were led down the garden path by folks who convinced them you could sign Thiago Alcantara and Cesc Fabregas. I dare say Sir Alex -- or a competent director of football type -- would have had a working BS meter that could have sniffed this out straight away.

When they did sign someone, it was Marouane Fellaini, a guy Moyes worked with before. And because of the prior dithering, you paid $6 million more than you should have.

In January, you broke your club transfer record to sign Juan Mata for $62 million. Great player, but could you have gotten him for less with Financial Fair Play around the corner, a World Cup coming up in a few months and the player clearly surplus to Chelsea's requirements? With a savvy director of football, I'd suggest that, yes, you could have.

(While we're at it, maybe with such a figure at the club, Nani wouldn't have somehow negotiated a five-year extension keeping him at Old Trafford until he turns 31. Five years for a guy who started just seven league games the previous season.)

soc_g_msammer_576x324.jpg

The role is very popular (and standard) in Europe: take Bayern, who have reached unprecedented heights with Matthias Sammer as executive.


The punditocracy in England often claim that directors of football buy players a manager doesn't want and therefore interfere with his job. But a good director of football would be on the same wavelength with the manager because he would have had a hand in appointing him.

He would understand the profile of player the manager wants and present multiple options. Then they would choose together. As with all things, it's about getting the right guy for the job. A bad one won't help you -- but then neither will a bad manager -- while a good one will make a real, tangible difference.

But it's not just about transfers and managing contracts. It's also about having another public face to support the manager. Moyes looked increasingly lonely and undermined out there, with nobody from the club stepping in to lend support. Equally, today's papers are full of stories (anonymous and after the fact, obviously) of bust-ups and behind-the-scenes tension. You can say it was a case of nobody wanting to interfere with his work. You can say that Moyes didn't want help, he wanted to stamp his authority; having someone step in to mediate or back him up would have had the opposite effect. And you can say that Sir Alex never needed any such crutches.

Fine. But Moyes isn't Sir Alex. And guess what? Nor are any of the guys you've been linked with. What's more, guys like Pep Guardiola, Juergen Klopp, Carlo Ancelotti, Diego Simeone, Antonio Conte and Frank De Boer have only worked with a director of football. Stick them in the manager's seat without one, and you'll be throwing them in the deep end.

Louis van Gaal is a bit different. He was omnipotent at AZ Alkmaar, sure. But that was AZ Alkmaar. He had one at Bayern, Barcelona and Ajax.

A competent director of football would also be the perfect bridge between the first team and the academy. Again, what's the better use of your manager's time: working with his senior players or traipsing off to watch the U-21s and U-18s at every opportunity?

With a director of football at the top, you can create a situation where the guys running the academy and the manager share the same philosophy, because it's also your philosophy. You can fully exploit what ought to be one of your club's biggest assets (and historically has been) by ensuring that the academy produces the types of players the manager wants. And if you get it right, that's exactly what will happen because the director of football, academy director and manager will all have the same footballing philosophy.

soc_g_manu_576x324.jpg

The Glazers can't afford to let Man United's brand value slip or stumble.


Great clubs are about continuity and patience. I know you guys like that, too. You don't enjoy controversy and instability -- not in your companies, not in your sports teams. Instability affects the bottom line, right?

But in fact, that's another reason to have a director of football. Managers come and go, even if they're successful. (Again, forget Sir Alex, he's an outlier.) And when they go, if they're powerful and ruthless enough, they cherry-pick the best of the scouting, medical and coaching staff and take them with them.

If you want continuity, if you want guys wedded to the Manchester United way who will stay loyal, you need to have somebody else in there. Somebody who won't bolt for more money or a "new challenge" or whatever other excuse is offered up. Directors of football tend to stay in one place. They take a long-term view. With a director of football, if you change managers, you don't have to rip up the blueprint and start from scratch.

You want names? I can't give them to you. That's something you need to decide. I mean, ideally, Sir Alex would take the gig. There would be nobody better than him, and having Sir Alex in a proper, hands-on role would be fantastic.

But the man is 72 and, unless he tells us differently, he's out of the running. So you would need to look elsewhere. But the right man is out there. And he ought to be the first building block of the post-Moyes United.

Otherwise, particularly if you go for one of the foreign coaches you're linked with (but even if you go with a domestic option), you could pay a hefty price. And you won't be exploiting your club's full potential.

Good luck and Godspeed,

Gabriele


log
 
Thanks God.

Kuanzia kesho heshima inarudi mtaani, "Giggs urges players to entertain fans"

Attacking football inarudi tena kama zamani.

GGMU

cc: All Haters
 
DonDonald said:
Thanks God.

Kuanzia kesho heshima inarudi mtaani, "Giggs urges players to entertain fans"

Attacking football inarudi tena kama zamani.

GGMU

cc: All Haters
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Kuanzia kesho sio? Angalia hopes zisife upesi kuliko ilivyokuwa awali.
Mtatafutana.
 
rubaman said:
Kuanzia kesho sio? Angalia hopes zisife upesi kuliko ilivyokuwa awali.
Mtatafutana.
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"Boring football" ya DM hamna tena mkuu

Ryan alipoteuliwa tuu alifanya hivi:
  • His first call upon being appointed was to former United boss Sir Alex Ferguson: "I wanted advice and I wanted to know just what to expect."
  • Kwahiyo ule mziki kama wa Fergie utauona kuanzia kesho.
  • Jitahidi uagalie mpira kesho utaamini maneno yangu
 
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