Jinsi Richmond/Dowans walivyoizunguka TANESCO na Taifa

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Naamini kuwa madai ya hukumu ya ICC haipingiki haina msingi tena kwani tunaweza kuona kuwa kwenye pointi za kisheria au new facts of the case zinaweza kusababisha mahakama kupunguza tu kufuta hukumu yenyewe.

 

[simanjiro]

Naamini kuwa madai ya hukumu ya ICC haipingiki haina msingi tena kwani tunaweza kuona kuwa kwenye pointi za kisheria au new facts of the case zinaweza kusababisha mahakama kupunguza tu kufuta hukumu yenyewe.

yap, hata mimi nimeona hilo, sasa inakuaje mwanasheria MKUU, JAJI werema THE LEARNED ONE aiwe ameliona hili?????????? bila shaka yoyote naye ni mwizi, fisadi!

 

[tama]

Hakuna marefu yasiyokuwa na mwisho.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

yap, hata mimi nimeona hilo, sasa inakuaje mwanasheria MKUU, JAJI werema THE LEARNED ONE aiwe ameliona hili?????????? bila shaka yoyote naye ni mwizi, fisadi!

nadhani hadi sasa watakuwa wanajua.

 

[Mindi]

ndiyo kitu kinachonitatiza sana.. Hili ni suala la kisheria na kisiasa; lakini vile vile ni suala la kiuchumi. Toka mwanzo wanaharakati hawajajua na nasema hawajui kupigana hivi vita dhidi ya ufisadi. Na itaendelea kutugharimu.

Hili tatizo la wanaharakati ni kwamba, kama watanzania walio na uchungu kweli na nchi yao hawatakuwa active kama wanaharakati, basi nafasi ya wanaharakati itachukuliwa na wanaharaka wa ufisadi, ambao itakuwa rahisi kuungana na ufisadi wenyewe. maana yake inabidi tuhamasishane watu makini waanzishe hizo NGOs ili kuleta mapambano ya kweli

 

[Moelex23]

Waziri Ngeleja na serikali, ASAP tunataka TANESCO kama mshitakiwa halali awasilishe hoja ya kupinga hukumu This week Mahakama kuu kwa sababu mchezo unaochezwa sasa kwa kweli hauna mantiki.

Tanesco ndio wanatakiwa kulipa, dowans wameshaenda kusajili hukumu, wao TANESCO wanasubiri nini kwenda kupinga hukumu??

Wanaharakati wao wamepinga lakini Tanesco wakiwa ndio moja ya party ya case inabidi malalamiko yake yawe mahakama kuu ASAP. Jamani kina Sitta na kina Mwakyembe, Lissu ebu shughulikieni ili suala hata kwenye vyombo vya habari hiki kifanyike, tusije kulaumiana tena huko mbeleni.

 

[Mindi]

Trader, aisee asante sana nimekusoma vizuri kweli. Na ninaweza kuwa:

a. Kusema kuwa mkataba unasema hakuna "appea" haina maana kuwa it is absolutely impossible to appeal kama ambavyo wanasiasa wamekuwa wakizungumzia hili.

b. Kukiwa na point nzuri ambayo inahusiana moja kwa moja na matokeo ya hukumu inawezekana kusue. Kwa hiyo naamini kubwa linalohitajika ni kuonesha precedence ya kesi ambazo zilikuwa zimeshatolewa hukumu katika arbitration lakini zikakatiwa rufaa.

THanks.

Pamoja na comments za Trader, Mkuu MM, vipi kuhusu mazingira yote ya kisiasa ya Richmond/Dowans? Deni ni lazima liwe na uhalali. haiwezekani mwizi kaiba halafu ukifaulu kurejesha baadhi ya alichoiba, au kumzuia asikuibie tena, anakushtaki umlipe fidia ya gharama alizoingia wakati anapanga kukuibia!! tunahitaji namna ya kuielezea hii kitu ili asithubutu mtu kujitokeza kujenga uhalali wa wizi huu. ulichofanya MM ni one big step towards this. Bravo!

 

[Trader]

Mkuu Trader, nimejitutumua kuelewa hiyo lugha ya kisheria uliyoandika na ninapenda kuamini kwama nimeelewa sahihi. Nakushukuru kwa utafiti wako na mawazo yako. Hata hivyo najaribu kujitahidi kukubaliana na wewe lakini bado yafuatayo yananitatiza;

1. Ninaposoma bandiko lako inakuwa kama nasikiliza marudio ya kauli za Ngeleja na Werema kwamba kwa mujibu wa sheria ni lazima tulipe hiyo tuzo vinginevyo?

2. Lakini pia ninasikia sauti za akina Mwakembe na Sita kwamba mahali pa kutokea pako wazi, uhalali wa kampuni na mkataba kuhamishwa

3. Pia nasikia sauti za wanaharakati wanasheria kwamba kuna uwezekano kabisa wa kupinga hiyo tuzo na kushinda.

4. Mwisho nasikia sauti za wananchi na wabunge kwamba tusilipe chochote kwani siyo deni ambalo ni kipaumbele katika madeni yote ya ndani na nje.

Kwa hiyo naomba niahirishe kukubaliana na wewe hadi wanasheria wote, viongozi na wananchi watakapozungumza lugha moja, kwamba hiyo hukumu hatutakiwi kisheria kukata rufaa. Nasikitika sana.

Gurudumu,

Points zako ni valid. Nilichopost mimi ni data za the way arbitration appeals zinavyokuwa handled na possibility ya ku-appeal na possible grounds. Haikuwa intention yangu ku-argue for or against the issue ya kulipa hilo deni. Utaona kwamba niligusia the issue of fraud as a possible route to challenge the award on grounds kwamba, as MMK has pointed out, details of the assignment were unknown to Tanesco in Dec 2006. Mahali pakutokea ni hapo kwenye issue aliyo raise Mhe MMK.

I hope utakuwa umenipata vizuri. Thanks

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Naona watu wengine wanakuja na kujaribu kuundermine kilichotokea Oktoba 14, 2006. Believe me kilichotokea ni kikubwa sana kuliko wao wanafvyofikiria na wasiwatishe watu kuwa ati "mali zetu zitanyang'anywa" aah wapi! ICC haina uwezo wala namna ya kukamata mali za nchi acheni kuwatisha watu.

Soma signature yangu hapa chini.

 

[Trader]

I think kuna two issues here that need consideration.

1. Setting aside the judgment altogether - hili gumu kwa sababu an appeal will need to be on a point of law - not fact. Sasa hapo napata shida kidogo.

2. Reduction of the award on grounds of fraud, misrepresentation - maybe the local courts can address this issue if the matter is brought before them. One could argue that, contrary to the ruling ya ICC which claims that TANESCO could have carried out due diligence to satisfy itself of the issues concerning the Claimant (Dowans), there was no due diligence that could have been carried out that would have revealed that which the parties did not want to reveal.

Mwanakijiji, quick question - kwenye reading zako can you help me with this - hivi wakati TANESCO wanaombwa kukubali hiyo assignment, hivi hawakuomba a copy of the agreements' between RDEVCO na DOWANS including the Assignment? Au walipewa a "chakachuad" agreement? And if so, does that further strengthen the argument of fraud or misrepresentation, which if nothing else can reduce the award?

Just thoughts.

PS: now we are told Dowans has been sold to CPS Energy of USA. As I asked in another post, Dowans value yake ipo kwenye the equipment maana hawana agreement to sell. Sasa hizi generata si ziliuzwa last year to IPC? How can they be sold again by Dowans?

And for company making first move into Africa, CPS Energy have not said one word of this on their very extensive website.

 

[Trader]

MMK,

Legally speaking, with an ICC award, unaweza kukamata mali za mdaiwa popote duniani. This is under the New York Code. Ndio maana watu wanapenda kwenda for this type of arbitration. Issue hapa is whether wanaodai wataweza kwenda that route????

Lakini as I have pointed out in earlier posts, hicho cha Oktoba 14, 2006 could turn out to be very crucial.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

MMK,

Legally speaking, with an ICC award, unaweza kukamata mali za mdaiwa popote duniani. This is under the New York Code. Ndio maana watu wanapenda kwenda for this type of arbitration. Issue hapa is whether wanaodai wataweza kwenda that route????

Lakini as I have pointed out in earlier posts, hicho cha Oktoba 14, 2006 could turn out to be very crucial.

lakini mali za mdaiwa maana yake nini? Watadai mali za wananchi (mali za serikali) wa Tanzania abroad au mali za Tanesco? Unafikiri wanaweza kukamata balozi zetu na mabalozi wetu wakakaa nje?

 

[Misterdennis]

Shukurani sana. As always, you never disappoint us.

 

[Trader]

lakini mali za mdaiwa maana yake nini? Watadai mali za wananchi (mali za serikali) wa Tanzania abroad au mali za Tanesco? Unafikiri wanaweza kukamata balozi zetu na mabalozi wetu wakakaa nje?

Not sure on that chief as nadhani itadepend on whether Govt of TZ was the ultimate guarantor for TANESCO which as far as I know is normally the case as Tanesco ni mali ya GOT. I understand most transactions of this nature involve a sovereign guarantee.

Have to check precedents before making any categorical statements.

 

[Mdondoaji]

Not sure on that chief as nadhani itadepend on whether Govt of TZ was the ultimate guarantor for TANESCO which as far as I know is normally the case as Tanesco ni mali ya GOT. I understand most transactions of this nature involve a sovereign guarantee.

Have to check precedents before making any categorical statements.

Shukrani mkuu

 

[Gurudumu]

Gurudumu,

Points zako ni valid. Nilichopost mimi ni data za the way arbitration appeals zinavyokuwa handled na possibility ya ku-appeal na possible grounds. Haikuwa intention yangu ku-argue for or against the issue ya kulipa hilo deni. Utaona kwamba niligusia the issue of fraud as a possible route to challenge the award on grounds kwamba, as MMK has pointed out, details of the assignment were unknown to Tanesco in Dec 2006. Mahali pakutokea ni hapo kwenye issue aliyo raise Mhe MMK.

I hope utakuwa umenipata vizuri. Thanks

Nimekupata kabisa mkuu. over the week end nilipata muda wa kusoma documents zote, na jana nimekuwa na wanasherika wachache waliobobea ambapo walikuwa hata wao wanabishania tafsiri za maneno na sentensi kadhaa. Kwa ujumla inaonekana kuna uwezekano wa kisheria kabisa kupinga hii kitu. Ngoja tuone itakavyopokelewa na mahakama kuu kama hatua ya kwanza.

Kitu kimoja mimi sijapata jibu. kwenye Tuzo, inaonekana uamuzi wa kusajili tuzo kwenye mahakama ya Tanzania ni hiari ya Tanesco. Sijajua vizuri kama ni tanesco ndio walioiambia Dowans kwenda kuisajili mahakama kuu. Vinginevyo tanesco walitakiwa walipe tu, kwamba siyo lazima kuisajili.

Naomba ufafanuzi kidogo please

 

[Gurudumu]

lakini mali za mdaiwa maana yake nini? Watadai mali za wananchi (mali za serikali) wa Tanzania abroad au mali za Tanesco? Unafikiri wanaweza kukamata balozi zetu na mabalozi wetu wakakaa nje?

Naombeni mnisaidie kidogo. hivi mmiliki wa Tanesco si ni serikali, na hivo mali za serikali ndizo zitakazokamatwa?

Kwa mtazamo wangu, Tuzo inajaribu kuonesha mazingira kwamba mkataba ulishinikizwa na serikali, ambao ndio owners wa Tanesco. Kwenye hili, inanitatiza mipaka ya Serikali na Tanesco. Kwenye kuamua kampuni ya kupewa tenda serikali ilijiweka mbele, kwenye kulipa tuzo serikali inawaachia tanesco. Nisaidieni hapa tafadhali.

Kuna kitu kinaitwa Tanganyika Law Society, huwa kazi zake hasa ni nini? Suppose tusingekuwa na wanaharakati waliojitolea kupinga hili jambo, hakuna chombo huru cha watanzania ambacho kina dhamana ya kusaidia wananchi katika matatizo kama haya?

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Tatizo ni kuwa naamini kuna order toka ndani ya serikali iliyopiga marufuku vyombo vya serikali kupinga tuzo hii. Kwa usalama wao wasijitokeze kupinga.

 

[IsangulaKG]

Na mimi imenifikia via Email

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Nadhani hii habari alieleta Mwanakijiji.., tafurahi kama hii umeitoa kwenye front page ya gazeti fulani, its time wananchi zaidi waone huu uozo