Islamic Banking ‘invades’ Tanzania

[Eric Cartman]

Kaka Mkandara,

Kwanza nianze nakusema asante hila swala moja muhimu unaliacha hapa tusichanganye tolerance ya watu wanaojijua vizuri kwa mshikamano wa namna moja kupitia tamaduni zao, dini zao (waarabu, wazungu na asians as different groups in their lands), values zao na a political consesus that only differ in public spendings where multiparty are concerned (siitaji kukwambia kinachoendelea UK this sums up the point, ingekua Africa you what would've followed). With those strong bonds joining them its easier for them to spot an alien and any danger going their way.

Wenzetu hawa wana strong bonds na much selfawareness of themeslves, much jointed by patriotism to their and the colour of their skins. Unlike us, we have only the colour of our skins as a common factor and a language (if you go to uganda they dont even have the prevelege of language).

We are many bands of people with many ideologies, forced to live under one umberella when the borders were drawn. To make matters worse the same people had come to our land and imposed ideologies that are threatining our weak democracy today under weak leadership.

Mkuu it dont make no difference kwao, hata kesho ukifungua kiwanda chako ukasema unaajili only Muslims na workers should adhere to strict muslims codes of dressing. And believe me this kind of investments dont bother them. Hila subiri kiwanda chako kikuwe na kipanuke to the point its tax contribution is huge na kina attract huge interest such as Virgin Corp, believe me you'd have to change.

Like i said before these people know themselves and understand their view of point (stand), currently its very safe from outside influence that much for them to be concerned. So a few mosques, banks aimed at a small proportion of an already part of minority group wont faze them. To understand more if they were that tolerant many jews would also be participating in politics especially in Europe, they are in their fourth generations now those who came in the beggining of last century and they're white. Let me tell you there they dont fit their criteria of natives.

Sasa its wrong to compare our tolerance and theirs uwezi kukuta wazungu wanabishana dini mbili tofauti in most cases wote ni dini moja wala huwezi kukuta waarabu wanafanya the same. Lakini kwa wa-africa especially sisi watanzania ambao tulipata bahati mbaya kutawaliwa na watu wa race mbili tofauti wametuachia na athari hizi leo, wao wanagombana watu wenye asili mbili tofauti sisi tuanaanza kujibizana thousands of miles away without their input bali corruption walizotupa long ago either positive or negative (kama utaona ni nzuri hupo positive, lakini kama itazua ya Nigeria its negative).

Bila kufikiria matatizo ya kuweza kulazimisha makabila yote hayo uliyoyataja kujaa kujiona fully Tanzanians first kabla ya imani zetu, ni tunatengeneza time bomb, Jf imenithibitishia hivyo kwa namna moja.

Naelewa ya kwamba people will have soft spots towards their religion beliefs or tribes. Nevertheless the punishements i have recieved in the west from both sets of religions (due to values and their cultures, eg. hivi unaelewa in ur case na imani yako watoto wa ki-islam wananyimwa nafasi madras za wahindi), it has made me understand the importance of us collecting all the bands that are in our perimeters, joining them and forming a true identity of our own first before peoples tribes or religions.

This is where my concerns with this bank araise at this moment in time, because as a society we beginning to disintergrate on the lines of colonial ideologies. And some of us are led by our emotions rather than the welfare and the future our land.

Mwisho nimalizie nilipo liingiza swala la American Civil war dini was not something that was in my mind, the issues was complex beginnig with 'Somerset the House Slave' over a hundred yrs before the war. It was about rights of colonies at first and a strong union at the end by force or not. So i wont let my emotions rule me on matters of national interest first, may be you should do the same. Till then

Well what do i know?

 

[Kiranga]

Mimi sina tatizo kama bank zinaanzisha programs si kwa waislam tu, bali hata zikileta program za wakristo, wayahudi, wabuda etc au hata Wanyalukolo, Wamakonde etc.

Ili mradi benki.

1.Hazitumii public funds
2.Haziwazuii wateja wengine
3.Hazizuiliwi ku tailor programs kwa wateja wake wa aina fulani.

Kwani Stanbinc ikiamua kuja na mpango maalum kwa ajili ya watoto wa Kibuda walionyoa nywele mtindo wa Mohawk wanaotaka mikopo ya kusomea American Civil War History katika Chuo Kikuu cha Blomfontein huko Africa Kusini kuna ubaya gani?

To me that's a win win situation, mtu anapata mkopo na Stanbinc anapata mteja.

Where is the beef?

 

[Prof Griff]

Dude,

Secular positions zangu zinakuja na heshima kwa dini za watu na tamaduni zao. Ndiyo maana nikasema kama watu hawalazimishwi kufanya Islamic banking, sioni ubaya.

Kusema watu secular wakataze Islamic banking ni sawa sawa na kusema watu secular wakataze misikiti, makanisa na charities za dini.Hii si secularism, hii itakuwa phobia.

Real secular humanist value respect for humanity, that respect for humanity encompass a high regard for religions and traditions, hence my understanding attitude towards Islamic banking.

Do not confuse Secular Humanism with Communism.

Swali la msingi hapa ni: jee ni sahihi kwa Public Institutions (full or partly funded by GOT) kama NBC (ambayo Serikali ina hisa 30% or so) kukumbatia mfumo wa benki unaoendana na imani ya dini fulani wakati Katiba ya Jamhuri inaweka wazi kuwa Dola haitabagua au kufungamana na Dini yoyote? Ni wazi kama pesa za Walipa kodi wa dini mbalimbali zitatumika kuwaridhisha Waumini wa dini moja tu, basi hii itatafsiriwa kama ni upendeleo.

Sifahamu kama kweli Sheria (hususan THE BANKING AND FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS ACT, 2006) na Katiba za nchi zinaruhusu kuanzishwa huduma za fedha zinazoendana na mafundisho ya Quran, na ni vigumu kufahamu bila Wanazuoni kama Rev. Mtikilia et. al. kupeleka shauri Mahakam Kuu likafanyiwe kazi.

 

[Mkandara]

Juma Contana,
Mkuu nakukubali unapotofautisha WATU na MAZINGIRA yao ktk kutafuta ufanisi au mafanikio. Hili ni jambo muhimu sana isipokuwa tu unachanganya uwezo wa watu ktk mazingira tofauti kuleta maana ya pale tulipo simama.

Nakubaliana nawe sana tu kwamba wenzetu waliungana kutokana ya Uzalendo wa ngozi, asili lakini tu hata utengano wao ulianza kuwa na mipaka kutokana na tofauti kama zetu. Hata wazungu walipigana vita za makabila na kuiwekeana mipaka kulitenganisha bara zima la Ulaya. Tofauti yetu ni wakati tu, lakini nadhani through experience yao ya vita Uadui wao ulikuwa mkubwa sana kuliko wetu sisi. tena naweza sema sisi tumebahatika sana kutokuwa na vita yenye uhasama na uhasidi kama wao kiasi kwamba hata vita vya Uhuru wetu ulikuwa na nafuu sana. Tuliweza kumaliza tofauti zetu za kikabila pasipo kuuana kama ilivyokuwa Ulaya.

Lakini yote haya hayatakuwa na maana kuendelea kuzungumzia ikiwa tutashindwa kujitazama sisi wenyewe na mazingira tulokuwepo. Kwa uhakika sisi bado tupo ktk Ujinga na Ulimbukeni na wala sii kosa la Wazungu, Waarabu au Wahindi kutuletea hizi ideology zao hali sisi wenyewe ndio tunapenda zitumike hadi leo.

Toka mfumo wa kisiasa hadi uwekezaji nchini ni Ulimbukeni mtupu, kuiga wenzetu wanafanya nini nasi tunaanzisha sera hizo, hivyo unapotanguliza uhasama unaoweza kuwepo baina ya Waislaam na Wakristu ni lazima pia utazame uchochezi unapotoka..Dini hizi zimeletwa kwetu na tumezipokea na kuzifuata kwa zaidi ya karne nzima bila uhasama baina yetu hadi pale tulipoletewa somo jipya la uadui baina ya nchi za Kiislaam na Israel/Marekani.
Hii migongano yote ya kidini chimbuko lake ni Uhasama huu wa Israel na waarabu wakitumia misahafu ku prove their point na sisi kama wafuasi tumeshindwa kujitenga na master wetu hata kama wamekosea. Hii ndio akili ya Kitumwa tuloachiwa na itakuwa ujinga mkubwa kuendelea kuibeba kwa hisia zetu za kiimani tukasahau who we are..

Ni kweli kabisa Ulaya hawabishani kuhusu dini moja, lakini sii kwa sababu wao ni dini moja... Ila wao wanaamini na kuheshimu maamuzi ya mtu mwingine hata iwe mwanaye wa kumzaa. It's the choice ones make..Lakini sisi utamtolea laana mwanao akibadilisha dini, awe ****** utaua na kadhalika. Hatuna tolerance kiasili pamoja na kwamba bado tunaiga uzungu..
Wazungu hawabishani hata kuhusu mpira ila wanachukua matokeo na kuyafanyia tathmini kulikoni? wakati sisi tutabishana weee kabla na baada ya mpira pasipo kujua tunabishania nini isipokuwa unazi mtupu utafikiri sisi ndio wenye kufaidika na timu hizo..

Ukweli ni kwamba what was reiforced kwetu ni hizi tamaduni toka nje ambazo zimetugawa ktk makundi ya dini. Wazungu hawawezi kutugawa tena kwa makabila wala Mipaka kwani tumekwisha toka huko na dunia nzima imepiga hatua kuachana na tamaduni hizo..Vita kubwa inyopiganiwa sasa hivi ni kutafuta HAKI, USAWA na AMANI..vita ya kiimani na vita hivi vina gharama kubwa sana. Sasa huwezi pigana vita pasipo adui kuwepo, na hakika adui mkubwa wa vita hivi ni Ubepari unalazimisha watu kutumikia wengine, unaohalalisha Unyonyaji, Ubwanyenye na Ukabaila pasipo kujali rangi, dini, jinsia wala kabila.

Tatizo la Bank za Kiislaam sio udini wake isipokuwa ni kupotea kwa faida kubwa ya interest ambazo banks nyinginezo wanazipokea kila siku..Huu ni mtihani kwao na ushindani mgumo kwa system nzima ya hizi financial institution.. Hii ndio hoja kubwa ktk nchi za magharibi lakini sisi tumo ktk kiza cha udini tu..Utajiri wa banks zote duniani unatokana na riba inayothaminisha fedha kwa mali badala ya thamani ya mali kwa fedha.
Na usitegemee kwamba Mabank makubwa yataweza kupokea banks hizi zisizokuwa na interest kwa mikono miwili hata kama ina manufaa zaidi kwa wananchi. Haiwezekani na hukukosea kabisa unaposema Bank ya Kiislaam haiwezi kushamiri Marekani wala nchi za Magharibi. Itapigwa vita kwa sababu Bank hizi ni sawa na arsenal kali dhidi ya majeshi ya Kikabaila.

Hivyo sisi kama maskini ambao kila senti yetu ina thamani ya mkate..nadhani tuna kila sababu ya kupokea huduma kama hii pasipo kufikiria mara mbili. Ni sawa na askari wa kiislaam anapokuwa vitani akaumia likaja gari la Msalaba mwekundi akakataa kuhudumiwa kwa sababu ni shirika lenye link na Ukristu. Ni ujinga mkubwa kwa Waislaam wa Tanzania leo ku question kuwepo kwa red cross, Salvation Army au shirika lolote lenye malengo ya kusaidia Umma kwa sababu ya uhusiano wake na kanisa. Huu ni ujinga unaoambatana na ulimbukeni.

Mkuu sisi sote hatujakamilika na hatutakamilika hadi siku ya kufa.. Waislaam wahindi wanajitenga sana tu na waswahili, vile vile waarabu na kadhalika kwa sababu za kibinafsi (unafiki) lakini hiyo pia ipo ktk Ukristu, Budha na Wayahudi. Sote tuna makundi ya utengano kulingana na hisia zetu za kibinadamu ambazo zinashinda imani ya dini.. Kuna makanisa ya Wagiriki, Wahispania, Wanigeria na kadhalika haya yote ni matunda ya udhoofu wa binadamu.
Na hakika kupinga kwetu bank hizi ni mojawapo ya udhoofu wa kibinadamu ambao unahitaji maelezo zaidi hasa pale watu wanapofikiria kwamba maadam bank hizi zina Uhusiano na Uislaam basi haziwezi kumfaa Mkristu au huduma zake hazimlengi Mkristu. Ujinga huu tusiupe nafasi ukawa somo.
Ukristu sii kutoza watu riba wala Ukristu hauhalalishi investment ktk vitu ambavyo vimekatazwa ndani ya Biblia na kuharamishwa..Kupinga bank za kiislaam hakukufanyi wewe kuwa mkristu bora bali mtumwa wa mawazo ya kikoloni..

 

[Fundi Mchundo]

Swali la msingi hapa ni: jee ni sahihi kwa Public Institutions (full or partly funded by GOT) kama NBC (ambayo Serikali ina hisa 30% or so) kukumbatia mfumo wa benki unaoendana na imani ya dini fulani wakati Katiba ya Jamhuri inaweka wazi kuwa Dola haitabagua au kufungamana na Dini yoyote? Ni wazi kama pesa za Walipa kodi wa dini mbalimbali zitatumika kuwaridhisha Waumini wa dini moja tu, basi hii itatafsiriwa kama ni upendeleo.

Sifahamu kama kweli Sheria (hususan THE BANKING AND FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS ACT, 2006) na Katiba za nchi zinaruhusu kuanzishwa huduma za fedha zinazoendana na mafundisho ya Quran, na ni vigumu kufahamu bila Wanazuoni kama Rev. Mtikilia et. al. kupeleka shauri Mahakam Kuu likafanyiwe kazi.

Umesema mwenyewe kuwa serikali ni minority shareholder katika NBC kwa hiyo kuiita taasisi ya umma kwa kiasi fulani ni usanii. Sidhani kama Katiba na seria za nchi zinaongoza hata namna mtu mwenye mali yake atakavyoongoza taasisi yake. Hapa pamefanyika uamuzi wa kibiashara wa kupanua wigo la wateja na si kingine si chochote. Kwa kulishikia bango ndio tunageuza kichuguu kuwa mlima. Kama mtu ameudhika na uamuzi wa benki yake basi afunge akaunti yake na aache kuipa biashara.

Amandla....

 

[Omulangi]

The stone has started to roll from the mountain top, i am afraid you cant prevent it to reach the bottom. The only alternative is to blow (detonate) it.

 

[Prof Griff]

Umesema mwenyewe kuwa serikali ni minority shareholder katika NBC kwa hiyo kuiita taasisi ya umma kwa kiasi fulani ni usanii. Sidhani kama Katiba na seria za nchi zinaongoza hata namna mtu mwenye mali yake atakavyoongoza taasisi yake. Hapa pamefanyika uamuzi wa kibiashara wa kupanua wigo la wateja na si kingine si chochote. Kwa kulishikia bango ndio tunageuza kichuguu kuwa mlima. Kama mtu ameudhika na uamuzi wa benki yake basi afunge akaunti yake na aache kuipa biashara.

Amandla....

Hata kama Serikali ingekuwa na 2% stake in NBC, ukweli unabaki kwamba bado hiyo taasisi ingekuwa answerable to the same Laws and the same Constitution (hata kwa Benki ambazo ni wholly private-owned.)

Vinginevyo, hamna sababu ya kutegemea Serikali/BOT ifanye due dilligence kuhusu legality and/or constitutionality of Islamic Banking in Tanzania kwani tutakumbuka ni Serilkali hii hii ambayo ili-condone DECI ifanye shughuli zake, na ndiyo maana kuna faida kubwa ya kuwapo watu makini kwenye jamii kama Rev. Mtikilia.

 

[Fundi Mchundo]

Hata kama Serikali ingekuwa na 2% stake in NBC, ukweli unabaki kwamba bado hiyo taasisi ingekuwa answerable to the same Laws and the same Constitution (hata kwa Benki ambazo ni wholly private-owned.)

Vinginevyo, hamna sababu ya kutegemea Serikali/BOT ifanye due dilligence kuhusu legality and/or constitutionality of Islamic Banking in Tanzania kwani tutakumbuka ni Serilkali hii hii ambayo ili-condone DECI ifanye shughuli zake, na ndiyo maana kuna faida kubwa ya kuwapo watu makini kwenye jamii kama Rev. Mtikilia.

Unajuaje hawakufanya? Unadhani kweli wameingia kichwa kichwa bila kuwauliza washauri wao na wasimamizi wao?

Amandla........

 

[Prof Griff]

Unajuaje hawakufanya? Unadhani kweli wameingia kichwa kichwa bila kuwauliza washauri wao na wasimamizi wao?

Amandla........

Hata tukichukulia kuwa Serikali imechunguza uhalali wa huduma hizi, haimaanshi wananchi walio na shauku kuhusu uhalali huo kupeleka shauri lao mahakamani. Serikali siyo mwamuzi wa mwisho kwenye suala kama hili na isitoshe zipo sababu nyingi za kutilia mashaka kama kweli Serikali ambayo ni incompetent na iliyojaa rushwa imefanya uchunguzi wa kutosha na kama matokeo yake kweli ni sahihi kulingana na sheria zilizopo pamoja na katiba.

 

[Fundi Mchundo]

Hata tukichukulia kuwa Serikali imechunguza uhalali wa huduma hizi, haimaanshi wananchi walio na shauku kuhusu uhalali huo kupeleka shauri lao mahakamani. Serikali siyo mwamuzi wa mwisho kwenye suala kama hili na isitoshe zipo sababu nyingi za kutilia mashaka kama kweli Serikali ambayo ni incompetent na iliyojaa rushwa imefanya uchunguzi wa kutosha na kama matokeo yake kweli ni sahihi kulingana na sheria zilizopo pamoja na katiba.

Hiyo ni haki yao kama vile ilivyo ya ku-insinuate kuwa kuna hidden agenda katika yote haya. Lakini kwa vile wananchi kadhaa hawaridhiki haina maana kuwa haki iko kwao. Kama ulivyowashauri, kama kweli wameudhika basi waende mahakamani. Hata hiyo i would not hold my breath until they do so. Hamna kitu hapa. Mtikila track record yake ya kupinga karibu kila kitu cha kiislamu itamshitaki.

Amandla......

 

[X-PASTER]

Vatican promotes Islamic finance in face of global crisis

Vatican says Western banks should look at rules of Islamic finance to restore confidence amongst clients.

ROME - The Vatican said banks should look at the rules of Islamic finance to restore confidence amongst their clients during the current global economic crisis.

The ethical principles on which Islamic finance is based may bring banks closer to their clients and to the true spirit which should mark every financial service the Vatican official newspaper Osservatore Romano said in an article in its latest issue.

The article argues that Western banks could use tools such as the Islamic bonds, known as sukuk, as collateral.

Sukuk may be used to fund the car industry or the next Olympic Games in London, it said.

The article also said that profit share, gained from sukuk, may be an alternative to the interest, underlining that the sukuk system could help automotive sector and support investments in infrastructure area.

Using the Islamic sukuk system, money would be invested in concrete projects and profit share - instead of interest earned - is distributed to clients.

The Osservatore editor, Giovanni Maria Vian, said that the great religions have always had a common attention to the human dimension of the economy, Corriere della Sera reported.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=30836

Also @ http://vaticanattorney.com/

 

[Webabu]

Hata tukichukulia kuwa Serikali imechunguza uhalali wa huduma hizi, haimaanshi wananchi walio na shauku kuhusu uhalali huo kupeleka shauri lao mahakamani. Serikali siyo mwamuzi wa mwisho kwenye suala kama hili na isitoshe zipo sababu nyingi za kutilia mashaka kama kweli Serikali ambayo ni incompetent na iliyojaa rushwa imefanya uchunguzi wa kutosha na kama matokeo yake kweli ni sahihi kulingana na sheria zilizopo pamoja na katiba.

Ndjabu kumbuka suala la OIC serikali ilivyofanya uchunguzi wa muda mrefu na kuridhika kuwa hakukuwa na tatizo kwa Tanzania kujiunga,lakini mara suala hili lilipotajwa bungeni wewe,Mtikila na wenzenu mulilipinga.Mimi nina shaka iwapo kweli unathamini uchunguzi wa kitaalamu.
Waonaje basi nyinyi mukilipeleka hili suala mahakamani na waislamu nao wakaishtaki serikali kuhusiana na OIC?.

 

[Mkandara]

Hata kama Serikali ingekuwa na 2% stake in NBC, ukweli unabaki kwamba bado hiyo taasisi ingekuwa answerable to the same Laws and the same Constitution (hata kwa Benki ambazo ni wholly private-owned.)

Vinginevyo, hamna sababu ya kutegemea Serikali/BOT ifanye due dilligence kuhusu legality and/or constitutionality of Islamic Banking in Tanzania kwani tutakumbuka ni Serilkali hii hii ambayo ili-condone DECI ifanye shughuli zake, na ndiyo maana kuna faida kubwa ya kuwapo watu makini kwenye jamii kama Rev. Mtikilia.

Mkuu hivi kweli unaweza linganisha Bank na NGO ya Upatu kwa sababu tu DECI ilikuwa ya Wakristu..Mkuu wangu kama kuna NGO yoyote ya Waislaam inayocheza mchezo wa Upatu kama ule wa DECI ifungiwe mara moja na zaidi ya hapo wahusika watiwe ndani. Lakini kama mtu binafsi, kundi la watu au jumuiya inataka kufungua Bank au NGO itaruhusiwa kulingana na masharti ya kufungua Bank au NGO maadam service zake zitakuwa ktk taratibu na kutokiuka masharti..mkuu kuna banks na NGO ngapi hazijafungiwa? kuna banks na NGO ngapi zzinazohudumia watu fulani tu iwe hii bank ambayo ipo kwa watu wote isipokuwa sheria zake zinakataza uwekezaji ktk haramu.

Jamani Mkapa kafungua bank kwa hela zenu wenyewe, hampigi kelele isipokuwa hii bank inayoitwa ya Waislaam imekuwa taabu kwenu... Ama kweli maneno ya Nyani Ngabu yana ukweli mtupu - MIAFRIKA NDIVYO TULIVYO....

 

[Mag3]

Tatizo la Bank za Kiislaam sio udini wake isipokuwa ni kupotea kwa faida kubwa ya interest ambazo banks nyinginezo wanazipokea kila siku..

Hapa kuna mkanganyiko kidogo kwani hizi benki zinaendeshwaje bila faida ? Kulingana na madai kama yaliyotolewa Dr Subramanian Swamy, msomi, mtaalamu na mchumi kutoka India anayepinga hii dhana anasema;

An Islamic bank cannot charge interest, but then what does it do to survive? How does it manage to survive? It manages to survive only by giving by one hand, and taking away twice as much or more by the other hand!

Ukweli ulio wazi hata kwa kipofu ni kuwa hizi benki zinatengeneza faida tena kubwa na hivyo kuweza kujiendesha na kwalipa wafanya kazi wake mishahara minono. Sasa swali ni je nani anayelipa hiyo faida ? Dr Subramanian Swamy anaendelea;

Let us take an example: If you want to purchase a house worth of Rs.10 lakhs an Islamic bank will not give you a loan of 10 lakhs at a rate of interest and fixed maturity as non-Islamic banks would. Instead the Islamic banks will purchase the house and sell it to you at a higher price! This means they will make a profit and such profit is called, Halal as per Sharia! They will ask you to pay this back in say 15 years or so. Of course interest-free ! This is back-door collection of interest.

Yaani wakati wakidai hawatozi faida, nyumba wanayonunua kwa shilingi milioni tatu watamuuzia mteja hata kwa milioni tano lakini hiyo tofauti wataiita Halal na siyo faida ! Ni rahisi sana kuona kwa nini nchi mfano Marekani hawaoni taabu kuziruhusu benki kama hizi kwani impact yake kwa uchumi wa nchi ni mdogo na wenzetu hawadanganyiki kirahisi kwani kwao sheria ni msumeno. Lakini kwa nchi kama yetu ambapo sheria zinaangalia uso wa mhusika, je kweli hizi benki zatufaa ? Haya tuangalie kitu kingine;

The Chief Executive of an Islamic Bank is answerable only to a Shariah Advisory Body and not to any constitutional authority. The bank must also educate its personnel to understand the tenets of Islamic law that pertain to banking, and to train them to comply with Sharia as they serve their Islamic customer population.

Sasa jamani kuwekeza pesa za UMMA kwenye chombo kama hiki si kuvunja sehemu ya katiba yetu ? Kwanza, madai kuwa wasio Waislamu hawalazimishwi kuzitumia hizi benki au kuweka pesa zao hayana msingi kwani tayari pesa zao zimeingizwa humo kwa mlango wa uani. Pili, watanzania ambao hawazitambui sheria za Kiislamu, Shariah, waelewe nini hizo sheria zinapoanza kutumika katika uendeshwaji wa chombo cha Umma, NBC ?

Tukubali tusikubali mbegu ya mifarakano kati ya dini mbali mbali ilishapandwa kitambo na hata mijadala humu ndani yaonyesha hivyo. Hivyo ni vema katika hali hii tusiruhusu mambo yanayoweza kuzidi kuchochea hiyo hali kwa kukumbatia kila linaloonekana linang'aa kumbe si dhahabu. Kama tu tungeweza kujitambulisha kama Watanzania kwanza, mambo yoyote yale yenye dalili ya kutugawa tungeyaogopa kama ukoma.

Je, hizi benki zitatuondoa kwenye umasikini ? Hilo ndilo swali.

 

[Fundi Mchundo]

Mkuu Mag3,
Kwani wamesema benki hizi zitageuzwa kuwa za kiislamu au ndani yake vitakuweko vitengo vya kutoa huduma hiyo? Hicho kitengo hakitahusika na pesa zako kama hautaki iwe hivyo na kama watapata hasara basi utawala wa benki utaamua ufanye nini kama vile watakavyofanya kama watapata faida. Mimi bado sioni tatizo liko wapi!

Amandla.....

 

[PlanckScale]

I went through the post titled "Islamic Banking ‘invades' Tanzania", and somehow I got interested in the idea of a no interest loan. But at the same time, I understood the anxiety that others have felt on the continuous deterioration of the separation between "church and state" in our beloved nation. So, as I went through the thread (while thanking those whom made the thread interesting), few questions came up in my mind and I felt that they deserved a thread of their own. So here we go:

Hivi mtu kama mimi ambaye siamini kuna mungu, nikafungua account ya Sharia (Sharia banking products) kwasababu nimependa kuwa na account isiyo na riba, je itakuwa inamaanisha nini? Yani, does the service remain "Islamic" if the client is a non-beliver (kafiri)?

Furthermore, hapo benki wafanyakazi kwenye hiyo idara ya products za Sharia, wana weza kuwa watu wa madhehebu yoyote? Does the product in question remains as such [Islamic Banking Product] if some of the bank employees associated with the product are not muslims? If you are a muslim client at the bank, would you fill that the product is 100% "Sharia banking product" if your bank adviser is a non-muslim?

Also, does a bank create a sort of "halal" procedures, processes, and policies in order to make sure the product is truly an Islamic Banking Product? And if so, how does it do that without breaking our labor laws (and the constitution)?

And last but not least, how does a muslim client qualify a bank product as an Islamic product?

Thanks

 

[Prof Griff]

Hiyo ni haki yao kama vile ilivyo ya ku-insinuate kuwa kuna hidden agenda katika yote haya. Lakini kwa vile wananchi kadhaa hawaridhiki haina maana kuwa haki iko kwao. Kama ulivyowashauri, kama kweli wameudhika basi waende mahakamani. Hata hiyo i would not hold my breath until they do so. Hamna kitu hapa. Mtikila track record yake ya kupinga karibu kila kitu cha kiislamu itamshitaki.

Amandla......

Labda ningekuuliza wewe: jee, ni nini kinafanya uridhike kuwa Serikali imefanya utafiti wa kutosheleza wa Kisheria hadi kuruhusu huduma za fedha za Sharia zitolewe nchini?

 

[Mkandara]

Mag3,

An Islamic bank cannot charge interest, but then what does it do to survive? How does it manage to survive? It manages to survive only by giving by one hand, and taking away twice as much or more by the other hand!

1. Huyu mtaalam wa Kihindi kwanza hajui hizi bank zinafanya kazi vipi, hivyo ana assume what's going on kwa kusoma toka Internet au simulizi za mitaani. Ni hivi mkuu wangu.. Katika sharia za Kiislaam haikatazwi FAIDA (Profit) isipokuwa kinachokatazwa ni riba (interest) ambayo unakuwa charged au kupokea ktk fedha uliyokopa au kuweka.. Uislaam haukatazi service charges ambazo ni reasonable.. Hata faida kubwa ya kuumiza mtu hairuhusiwi..Maadam kuna makubaliano kati ya muuzaji na mnunuzi ktk bei iliyo reasonable hakuna Uharamu.

Let us take an example: If you want to purchase a house worth of Rs.10 lakhs an Islamic bank will not give you a loan of 10 lakhs at a rate of interest and fixed maturity as non-Islamic banks would. Instead the Islamic banks will purchase the house and sell it to you at a higher price! This means they will make a profit and such profit is called, Halal as per Sharia! They will ask you to pay this back in say 15 years or so. Of course interest-free ! This is back-door collection of interest.

Hii pia sio kweli kwa sababu unachoomba ni mkopo wa nyumba..Labda nikupe mfano wa hapa nyumbani upate kuelewa vizuri zaidi. Mkopo wowote wenye faida juu ni cheap kuliko interest inayopanda kila mwezi. Kwa mfano Unataka kununua nyumba ya millioni 200 unaambiwa bank watainunua na kukuuzia millioni 240 ongezeko la tuseme asilimia 20. Hizi unapewa miaka mathlan 30 kuzilipa.. Fedha hi itabakia kushuka kwa kila malipo utakayo fanya hadi umalize 240m. Lakini kama utauziwa nyumba ya thamani hiyohiyo na bank za kawaida na wakwambie interest rate ni asilimia 5 tu na kwa miaka 30. Kwanza jua ya kwamba ile asilimia 5 ni kwa kila balance iliyobakia juu ya basic amount. Hivyo malipo ya kwanza tu yatakuwa inclusive ya asilimia 5 ambayo tayari tunazungumzia kitu kama 1,000,000 interest..Hivyo ukilipa millioni 2, itahesabika umelipa millioni moja toka ktk deni hivyo kunabakia deni la 199/-m..Ile milioni moja (riba) imekwenda na maji..

Na mwezi ujao itachukuliwa tena asilimia 5 ya Tsh199/m kama interest. matokeo yake baada ya miaka 30 utakuwa umelipa zaidi ya asilimia 200 ya thamani ya nyumba siku ulonunua, hapo bado hujaweka ada nyinginezo..
Huyu jamaa dosti anazungumza tu hajui anachokisema.

The Chief Executive of an Islamic Bank is answerable only to a Shariah Advisory Body and not to any constitutional authority. The bank must also educate its personnel to understand the tenets of Islamic law that pertain to banking, and to train them to comply with Sharia as they serve their Islamic customer population.

Ukisoma kwa makini hoja hii imezungumzia zaidi Uislaam nahasa anaposema - THEY SERVE THEIR ISLAMIC CUSTOMER POPULATION.. Huyu ni mdini mkubwa kwani Islamic bank haipo kwa Waislaam as such ila wapenda HAKI na usawa ktk Biashara pasipo bank kujitajirisha kupindukia kama zilivyokuwa Bank za Marekani kutaka kuifilisi nchi. Mkuu wangu bank za Bongo sasa hivi zinawamaliza wananchi, naona wengi wanafurahia bila kujua kwamba aim ya banks ni hizo strict collateral ambazo zina thaminishwa at 30 or 40% ya thamani halisi ya mkopo wenyewe. Nenda kaombe mkopo uweke nyumba au gari lako ujionee hiyo thamani watakayo kupa. lakini Islamic bank watakupa mkopo kwa thamani halali ya gari lako..

 

[Kiranga]

Plancscale,

Ndiyo maana mimi nikasema kuna haja ya ku-rexamine hiyo designation ya "Islamic banking". Kama inahusu mambo ya no interest, bila ya kitu kingine ambacho kiko uniquely Islamic, basi iwe "No Interest loan".

After all kuna wakomunisti, wasoshalisti, wakristo etc, wanaamini interest katika mikopo ni exploitation/ unethical/ au hata dhambi fulani hivi. Na wanaweza kukupa misahafu yao invyosema.

Sasa swali langu ni, what is uniquely Islamic about these loans. I'm talking core issues apart from labelling and bismillahing here and there.

Maana unaweza kukuta tatizo ni labelling, Wakristo na sisi atheist hatutaki kutumia service inayoitwa "Islamic banking" wakati hatuamini uislam, lakini tunaona kabisa hii service itatufaa kwa imani zetu kwamba interest ni exploitation.

Kama ni hivyo unaondoa label tu, unaondoa tatizo.

Tatizo sasa kila mtu atataka no interest banking, banking system inaweza ku collapse hivi hivi.

 

[Prof Griff]

Ndjabu kumbuka suala la OIC serikali ilivyofanya uchunguzi wa muda mrefu na kuridhika kuwa hakukuwa na tatizo kwa Tanzania kujiunga,lakini mara suala hili lilipotajwa bungeni wewe,Mtikila na wenzenu mulilipinga.Mimi nina shaka iwapo kweli unathamini uchunguzi wa kitaalamu.
Waonaje basi nyinyi mukilipeleka hili suala mahakamani na waislamu nao wakaishtaki serikali kuhusiana na OIC?.

Watu kama Mtikila et al hawachukulii kila uchunguzi unaofanywa na Serikali at face value (and this for very obvious reasons ambazo any rational thinking individual kama wewe unazifahamu). Its that simple. So, why give Serikali the benefit of the doubt on this imatter when they've proven themselves very untrustworthy on a whole lot of issues at any given time?