Islamic Banking ‘invades’ Tanzania

[Msanii]

Mimi Naomba Mjadala huu uishie hapa! Hivi hawa watu wanaoleta mijadala kama hii huku JF wanakuwa wamekosa cha kufanya?

kama hupendi huu mjadala just do not open it.
kachangie mijadala ya mapenzi

 

[kilimo cha pork]

Hizo ni mbinu za wazungu kukusanya pesa za waislamu ili wazalishie bila kulipa fadhila za wateja.Maerkani walizitumia sana za warabu ila sasa waarabu waarabu wanainvest kwao mtaji wa western umeanguka

 

[Ubungoubungo]

Kwa maoni Yangu mimi tuachane na hizi ishu tujadili utaifa

acha ujinga, utaifa ndo huu wa kuweka mambo sawa ili dini isitutenge kwasababu dini moja inakuwa imeingizwa kwenye selikali. kuimarisha umoja wetu ni pamoja na kuhakikisha tunaendelea kuishi kwa amani tukiheshimu dini za wengine, na kuondoa vinyongo kwenye mioyo ya watu kuhusu dini inayoingizwa kwenye selikali. kama hili jambo litaendelea kuwepo tz utaifa unamong'onyoka hivihivi kwasababu litawatenga sana wakristo na waislam, na hatutashirikiana. unaelewa?

 

[Msanii]

acha ujinga, utaifa ndo huu wa kuweka mambo sawa ili dini isitutenge kwasababu dini moja inakuwa imeingizwa kwenye selikali. kuimarisha umoja wetu ni pamoja na kuhakikisha tunaendelea kuishi kwa amani tukiheshimu dini za wengine, na kuondoa vinyongo kwenye mioyo ya watu kuhusu dini inayoingizwa kwenye selikali. kama hili jambo litaendelea kuwepo tz utaifa unamong'onyoka hivihivi kwasababu litawatenga sana wakristo na waislam, na hatutashirikiana. unaelewa?

Umenenena kistaarab sana naamini watakuelewa mkuu

 

[Ngekewa]

acha ujinga, utaifa ndo huu wa kuweka mambo sawa ili dini isitutenge kwasababu dini moja inakuwa imeingizwa kwenye selikali. kuimarisha umoja wetu ni pamoja na kuhakikisha tunaendelea kuishi kwa amani tukiheshimu dini za wengine, na kuondoa vinyongo kwenye mioyo ya watu kuhusu dini inayoingizwa kwenye selikali. kama hili jambo litaendelea kuwepo tz utaifa unamong'onyoka hivihivi kwasababu litawatenga sana wakristo na waislam, na hatutashirikiana. unaelewa?

Mbona unashindwa kujibu hoj unazopewa na kubaki kungangana na utumbo wako? Ikiwa mtu ameshaona jkkuwa hamna hoja ni busara akusaidieni.

 

[Ubungoubungo]

Mbona unashindwa kujibu hoj unazopewa na kubaki kungangana na utumbo wako? Ikiwa mtu ameshaona jkkuwa hamna hoja ni busara akusaidieni.

kwani hoja hapa ni nini? yeye anasema kuwa tuache kujadili hii issue ili to concentrate kwenye mambo ya kitaifa, mimi nimemwambia kwani hili si jambo la kitaifa? nijuavyo mimi, nchi inapogawanyika kwasababu ya itikadi za kidini ni issue inayohusu utaifa kwasababu taifa laweza kumong'onyoka hivihivi kwasababu ya kitu kama hicho, so this issue ya islamic banking ni issue ya kitaifa....that was my point, wewe kwa akili yako unafikirije, kwasababu hata wewe haujaongea kitu zaidi ya kuniambia kuwa sielewi, akili yako wewe iko wapi sasa? manake hata point moja ya kujitetea haujatoa. unafikirije kama tz tutaishi kwa matengano au chuki kati ya waislam na wakristo? patakalika? shule zitasomeka? biashara zitafanyika?..na je, kama kuna mambo ambayo tunaona kabisa watu wanalalamika na yanaweza kuligawa taifa, yatupasa kulifumbia macho?..kwasababu gani? what do you muslims have kwamba tuwagwaye tusiongeee kitu kinacholihusu taifa letu? hampendi umoja? mwaweza kuishi peke yenu nyie, si tumewabeba tu hapa? bila hivyo mnge kuwa mnaswali tuuu hapa na kucheza bao mkisubiri jioni muuze chips na kacholi, kababu, kashata na kahawa na kupiga chuma ulete tu, na taifa lingekuwa kama Niger au somalia....

 

[Kiranga]

Kwa kawaida natetea mawazo ya "secular humanists" ambayo hayafungamani na dini yoyote. Nimekuwa critical kwa waislam na wakristo, pamoja na watu wa dini nyingine.

Kutofungamana kwangu na dini yoyote hakuna maana ya kupiga vita dini moja kwa moja, kama alivyosema rais wa kwanza wa Jamhuri Mwalimu Nyerere, kwa mfano, serikali yetu haina dini, lakini hili halimaanishi kwamba watu wetu hawana dini.

Islamic banking ni kitu kizuri, as long as inakuwa ni option kwa waislamu kufanya banking na kubakia katika misingi ya dini yao. As long as wasio waislamu hawalazimishwi kufanya Islamic banking.

Sioni ni jinsi gani kuleta Islamic banking kwa waislamu kama option kutaharibu chochote popote.

Zaidi ya hapo, kuchukia Islamic banking ni ubaguzi tu.

 

[Mkandara]

Mimi Naomba Mjadala huu uishie hapa! Hivi hawa watu wanaoleta mijadala kama hii huku JF wanakuwa wamekosa cha kufanya?

Muulizeni Invisible maana ajua tusiyoyajua..

 

[Kiranga]

Watu wengi inaonekana hawaelewi msingi wa idea nzima ya "Islamic Banking".

Ukisoma sana msingi wa "Judeo Christian" religions, utakuwa unacheka kila mara unaposikia waislam na wakristo wanapogombana.

Hii ni kwa sababu, kimsingi waislam na wakristo hawatofautiani sana. Ukisoma "The Ascent of Money" cha Niall Fergusson kwa mfano ( au Paul Johnson's "A History of The Jews" au kitabu chochote kinachogusia medieval banking in Europe), utaona ni jinsi gani Wayahudi walivyotokea kuwa prominent bankers Ulaya kwa sababu medieval Christendom ilikuwa ina values hizi hizi ambazo leo tunaziita "Islamic banking". Basically shunning usury and interest.

Kwa hiyo mimi ninapoona sentiments za Wakristo wanaokuja hapa wakiwa pissed apparently kwa sababu wanaona kama Waislamu wanapewa preferential treatment, bila kujua kwamba kile kinachoitwa "Islamic Banking" actually kipo clearly stated in the old testament, nacheka tu.

Labda it is time to rename "Islamic Banking" into something else.

Unless, there is something uniquely Islamic about it.

 

[The Boss]

Watu wengi inaonekana hawaelewi msingi wa idea nzima ya "Islamic Banking".

Ukisoma sana msingi wa "Judeo Christian" religions, utakuwa unacheka kila mara unaposikia waislam na wakristo wanapogombana.

Hii ni kwa sababu, kimsingi waislam na wakristo hawatofautiani sana. Ukisoma "The Ascent of Money" cha Niall Fergusson kwa mfano ( au Paul Johnson's "A History of The Jews" au kitabu chochote kinachogusia medieval banking in Europe), utaona ni jinsi gani Wayahudi walivyotokea kuwa prominent bankers Ulaya kwa sababu medieval Christendom ilikuwa ina values hizi hizi ambazo leo tunaziita "Islamic banking". Basically shunning usury and interest.

Kwa hiyo mimi ninapoona sentiments za Wakristo wanaokuja hapa wakiwa pissed apparently kwa sababu wanaona kama Waislamu wanapewa preferential treatment, bila kujua kwamba kile kinachoitwa "Islamic Banking" actually kipo clearly stated in the old testament, nacheka tu.

Labda it is time to rename "Islamic Banking" into something else.

Unless, there is something uniquely Islamic about it.

afadhali wewe una weza wacheka kwa kutoelewa..
mimi huwa nacheka na kushangaa pale unapoona wakereketwa
wa dini mfano ukristo au uislamu wanapokuwa wepesi wa kugombana
na kutoleana macho wakati wote utakuta ni washirikina nambari one...
vitu vinavyopingwa na dini zote.....
unakuta mtu ana hirizi ya kilo sita but still ikitajwa dini yake anakuja juu utasema
katukaniwa mama yake..........inapokuja masuala ya dini ,watu wachache sana wanaweza
kutumia akili,sijui kwa nini....

 

[Mkandara]

Kiranga,
Mkuu Tanzania hakuna Wakristu, wengi ya wachangiaji hata kanisani hawaendi ila siku za sikukuu. Na kibaya zaidi dini imeingiliwa na wasiojua undani wa dini hiyo.. Mtanisamehe!

 

[Abdulhalim]

Kiranga,
Mkuu Tanzania hakuna Wakristu, wengi ya wachangiaji hata kanisani hawaendi ila siku za sikukuu. Na kibaya zaidi dini imeingiliwa na wasiojua undani wa dini hiyo.. Mtanisamehe!

Hata wasilamu vilevile hakuna.Maana chukua mfano mdogo tu, kabla ya Islamic banking walikuwa wakieka wapi pesa yao. Waambie wakujibu kimoyomoyo.

 

[Prof Griff]

This took place in Kerala, India, recently and may be of interest to this thread. (Rev. Mtikila please take note!)


http://janamejayan.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/dr-subramanian-swamy-opposes-islamisation-of-kerala/


Dr. Subramanian Swamy opposes Islamisation of Kerala
By janamejayan
Islamising banking in Kerala – I
By: V Sundaram

vsundaram@newstodaynet.com

Wednesday, 06 January, 2010 , 02:33 PM

The Kerala High Court yesterday (5-1-2010, Tuesday) has granted a stay order to Dr Subramanian Swamy who had moved a Public Interest Writ Petition in the Kerala High Court in Kochi on 8 Dec, 2009 for the grant of an INTERIM STAY against the outlandish and outmoded proposal of the Kerala government for the establishment of an Islamic Banking Company in Kerala based upon Islamic principles of Shariah.

Dr Subramanian Swamy has rightly argued in his writ petition that the Kerala Government action starting of an Islamic Bank will running counter to the Secular principle enshrined in our constitution. Establishment of such a Bank in one state would lead to a clamour of similar demands from other regions and other states.

Taking note of the unassailable legal and Constitutional points raised by Dr Subramanian Swamy, a Division Bench of the Kerala High Court, comprising Chief Justice S R Bannurmath and Justice Thottathil B Radhakrishnan has restrained the Kerala State Government and the Kerala State Industrial Development Corporation (KSIDC) from commencing the operation of an Islamic financial institution on the lines of Islamic bank till further orders.

The Bench passed this order while admitting a public interest petition filed by Janata Party president Subramanian Swamy challenging the Government Order (GO) giving sanction to setting up a company by the KSIDC for providing financial service in KSIDC accordance with Shariah.

With unholy haste the Government of Kerala had issued orders in G.O (Rt) No. 1336/2009/ID dated 14.10.2009 (Filed as Exhibit P1 by Dr Swamy in his Writ Petition) according sanction for registration of a company by the Kerala State Industrial Development Corporation (KSIDC) which will provide financial services ‘in accordance with the Shariah of the Muslim community'.

The same Government Order also specified that the proposed Islamic Banking Company will have 11% equity contribution from KSIDC which is fully owned by the Government of Kerala. In his writ petition Dr Subramanian Swamy has riveted the point that the setting up of a financial services company with Kerala Government participation, which would follow the injunctions of law of a particular religion like Islam is a clear instance of the Kerala State favouring the religion of Islam.

When Dr Swamy sought information relating to this new Shariah Bank in Kerala from the KSIDC, he got a reply from them to the following effect: "KSIDC is taking steps to promote Islamic Financial Institution. It is a company promoted by the Private Promoters and KSIDC. The proposed institution will not collect interest or charge interest for financing. It will function with full compliance of SHARIAH PRINCIPLES." (Reply from KSIDC Filed as Exhibit P2 by Dr Swamy in his Writ Petition)

Counsel for the KSIDC submitted that as per the Kerala Government GO, a Company has been formed and registered and it would function only in accordance with the provisions of the Companies Act and RBI Act. As per the proposal, the KSIDC would contribute about 11 per cent equity to set up an Islamic financial service organisation. The organisation will not collect or charge interest for financing. Taking note of this Dr Swamy strongly agued that ‘The government's act is violation of the Banking Regulation Act, 1949. Its attempt is to use public funds for favouring a particular religion.'

Dr Swamy invited the kind attention of the Kerala High Court to the Shariah Advertisement issued by the Shariah KSIDC with Islamic commitment to Shariah law for the filling up of vacancies for the positions of Chief Executive Officer (CEO), Company Secretary in the new Islamic Bank. This advertisement has been placed in the website (http://ksidc.org/) of KSIDC. In the terms of reference for CEO, it is clearly stated that he will report to the SHARIAH ADVISORY BOARD. Dr Subramanian Swamy has placed a copy of this Shariah advertisement as Exhibit P3 in his Writ Petition. It is clear from the Exhibit P3 that the Muslim CEO, the new Islamic Banking Company is required to report to the Shariah Advisory Board.

Dr Swamy, a Harvard-educated economist, has effectively argued in the Kerala High Court that the new Islamic Banking firm would be bound by the Shariah law and its Chief Executive would be answerable only to a Shariah Advisory Body and not to any constitutional authority and investing Indian public money in such an Islamic company will be wholly unconstitutional.

Here we can see clearly the convoluted and twisted ways of the Government of Kerala, to hand over as a pioneering trial measure, the Islamic Bank of Kerala to the Muslims of anywhere and everywhere in any and every part of the world! The CEO will work for an Islamic Company in which 89 % of the shares will be held by the Muslims from anywhere and everywhere and only 11% would be held by the KSIDC. In short the KSIDC (A KERALA GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATION), would be the sleeping partner in this State-sponsored Islamic Financial Institution and the Muslims would be the dominant and deciding authroties.

Dr. Subramanian Swamy is absolutely right when he says that the Communist Government of Kerala is functioning as an official sales agent for the promotion of Islam in Kerala! The same Islamic Government is least concerned about the Hindus of Kerala who constitute 55% of the population. Dr Siby Mathew (Additional Director General of Police, Kerala) has recently furnished details regarding the Suicide Statistics of Kerala.

Hindus constituting 55% of the population account for 79.5% of the total suicides every year. Muslims constituting 26.5% of the population account for only 7.5% of the total suicides every year. Christians constituting 18% of the population account for only 12.5% of the total suicides every year. This clearly shows that the poor Hindus of Kerala are being treated as State-less Citizens by the Government of Kerala.

In November 2008, the U.S Treasury Department hosted a Seminar on Islamic Banking to train U.S Government employees on Sharia-compliant finance (SCF). It was "designed to help inform the policy community about Islamic financial services, which are an increasingly important part of the global financial industry." George Bush was responsible for this irresponsible initiative. On the one hand he illegally attacked Iraq and on the other he took the illegal initiative for establishing an Islamic Bank in America. George Bush failed to achieve his objective because of strong American public opinion against Islamic Banking.

In this context, I fully endorse the brilliant view of Supna Zaidi on Western approach to Islamic Banking. Let me quote her words: "It is interesting to note that while many in the West deride parallel societies, the lack of integration, and overall "foreign-ness" of its Muslim populations, they have no problem embracing Islamic banking. Maybe because this is the one area of religious "encroachment" that allows the West to make money, and lots of it.."

Taking note of the record of terrorist Islam in India and the Government of India's Gandhian infatuation for it, I am firmly of the view that no short-term gain in the sordid world of banking is worth the long-term danger presented by these murky, Islamist-backed financial Institutions.

I fully share the view of Dr. Subramanian Swamy that Islamic Banking as a Government initiative will never be acceptable in India. Islamic Banking demands the abolition of payment of interest. Can payment of interest be abolished? Islamic scholars argue that Payment of Interest is a bane on the society. What are the alternatives especially example, for old aged people who live on the interest from deposits of their lifelong savings, if interest is prohibited? How will banks survive without charging interest on loans extended?

An Islamic bank cannot charge interest, but then what does it do to survive? How does it manage to survive? It manges to survive only by giving by one hand, and taking away twice as much or more by the other hand! Let us take an example: If you want to purchase a house worth of Rs.10 lakhs an Islamic bank will not give you a loan of 10 lakhs at a rate of interest and fixed maturity as non-Islamic banks would. Instead the Islamic banks will purchase the house and sell it to you at a higher price! This means they will make a profit and such profit is called, Halal as per Sharia! They will ask you to pay this back in say 15 years or so. Of course interest-free. This is back-door collection of interest.

I cannot help quoting the succinct words of Dr. Subramanian Swamy:

‘Thus an Islamic bank is like boiled ice cream; it cannot exist in real life without tricking our confidence. An Islamic bank, or even NBFC, that operate in India, would violate at least the following laws, rules and regulations:


a) Partnership Act (1932) which stipulates a maximum of 20 partners, since KSIDC says it will be an open partnership between it and private investors without limit.

1. Wagering (not permitted under Sharia) as per Section 30 of Indian Contract Act (1872).

b) Sections 5(b) & (c), 9 and 21 of Banking Regulation Act (1949) on Prohibition of Profit- Sharing, buying & selling property, and for not charging interest.

c) RBI Act (1934)

d) Negotiable Instruments Act (1881)

e) Co-operative Societies Act (1961).'

Islamic Banks will not be permitted by Sharia to give loans for liquor manufacture, cinema, hotel, Entertainment industry etc. These however are under current laws of India legitimate and legal activities.

The Government is a partner in the Islamic NBFC promoted by KSIDC in Kerala. How can such a NBFC which is partnered by KSIDC deny loans for such legitimate activities, without violating Article 14 of the Constitution, a fundamental right of equality before the law?

It is clear that Islamic bank or NBFC cannot be started in India without violating numerous laws and regulation. Can Kerala Legislature amend the laws to make it Islam-compliant? Not possible because under Article 246 of the Constitution only the Central Government is empowered to change banking and financial statutes. Moreover, Article 27 explicitly bars using tax money with Government for furthering any religion.


(To be contd&#8230😉

This entry was posted on January 6, 2010 at 1:47 pm and is filed under Communist menace, Dr.Subramanian Swamy, Kerala, Muslim menace. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

 

[Prof Griff]

Kwa kawaida natetea mawazo ya "secular humanists" ambayo hayafungamani na dini yoyote. Nimekuwa critical kwa waislam na wakristo, pamoja na watu wa dini nyingine.

Kutofungamana kwangu na dini yoyote hakuna maana ya kupiga vita dini moja kwa moja, kama alivyosema rais wa kwanza wa Jamhuri Mwalimu Nyerere, kwa mfano, serikali yetu haina dini, lakini hili halimaanishi kwamba watu wetu hawana dini.

Islamic banking ni kitu kizuri, as long as inakuwa ni option kwa waislamu kufanya banking na kubakia katika misingi ya dini yao. As long as wasio waislamu hawalazimishwi kufanya Islamic banking.

Sioni ni jinsi gani kuleta Islamic banking kwa waislamu kama option kutaharibu chochote popote.

Zaidi ya hapo, kuchukia Islamic banking ni ubaguzi tu.

Unajua kweli maana ya Secular Humanism? Maana naona hiyo reasoning yako ni clearly fallacious. Utasemaje "unatetea mawazo ya secular humanists ambayo hayafungamani na dini yoyote", halafu mistari michache baadaye chini unadai "Islamic Banking ni kitu kizuri..."?

Islamic banking is NOT equivalent to conventional (i.e., secular) banking, and should accordingly be totally indefensible according to principles of secular humanism.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Swali nalo jiuliza hapa mimi mwenyewe ni hili sijui kama tunaelewa hii kitu, ktk nchi za europe kuna conservative values backed by a conservative party. Hii isitichunganye in some parts of europe the same conservative values are backed by 'christian democratic party' its another name for a conservative party.

Sasa kesho kikitokea chama cha siasa Tanzania kikijiita 'chritian democrats' na chenyewe kikisema atuna nia ya kusambaza dini bali ni family values na muongozo sahihi kimaisha bila ya dini fualni yeyote anaruhusiwa kujiunga, tunachopinga ni ufisadi na maadili mengine kinyume cha jamii na mengineo sidhani kama watakua wamekosea ni misingi hii ya dini ya uislamu pia inapinga. Je muslims watakipokeaje hiki chama? THINK

Na values za consevative are not much different from religion ones, juzi tumeona kabla ya uchaguzi UK mwanamke kuipeleka kesi makao makuu ya chama baada ya kushinda kuwa mgombea na baadhi ya wanachama wakuu kupinga, kwa kusema alishakuwa na affair na mme wa mtu a decade ago. Lakini hizi ni values ambazo ni morally right under the party and somehow related with religions.

Point hapa ni hivi hii Benki si semi kama hipo wrong but is it right in our society. Turkey can call itself a secular society lakini ukweli ni kwamba the're being tolerant of other religions, hila the social majority will still remain muslim that will remain the unspoken word but a fact. The same can be said about the west they can call themselves secular societies hila the fact remain the same. Therefore a Bank like this has no impact at all, apart from being a positive investment kwao through employment and Tax.

Tanzania can also call itself a secular society (but we are not the west nor the east) we have the challenge to maintain the right conscious equillibrum kwa sababu ni kwamba we have received colonial ideologies and we need to balance them fit for our current social. The last thing we want is to divide us, therefore we have to be careful of the long term consequences na haya mambo ya ku-f@cken embrace everything that is thrown at us. Its for us to weigh the pros and cons before we take everything for selfishness purposes.

Well like i have come to understand, what do I know in the end? apparently very little regarding tanzania and its people.

PS. Now you can mess the text Knob.

 

[Kiranga]

Unajua kweli maana ya Secular Humanism? Maana naona hiyo reasoning yako ni clearly fallacious. Utasemaje "unatetea mawazo ya secular humanists ambayo hayafungamani na dini yoyote", halafu mistari michache baadaye chini unadai "Islamic Banking ni kitu kizuri..."?

Islamic banking is NOT equivalent to conventional (i.e., secular) banking, and should accordingly be totally indefensible according to principles of secular humanism.

Dude,

Secular positions zangu zinakuja na heshima kwa dini za watu na tamaduni zao. Ndiyo maana nikasema kama watu hawalazimishwi kufanya Islamic banking, sioni ubaya.

Kusema watu secular wakataze Islamic banking ni sawa sawa na kusema watu secular wakataze misikiti, makanisa na charities za dini.Hii si secularism, hii itakuwa phobia.

Real secular humanist value respect for humanity, that respect for humanity encompass a high regard for religions and traditions, hence my understanding attitude towards Islamic banking.

Do not confuse Secular Humanism with Communism.

 

[Kiranga]

Swali nalo jiuliza hapa mimi mwenyewe ni hili sijui kama tunaelewa hii kitu, ktk nchi za europe kuna conservative values backed by a conservative party. Hii isitichunganye in some parts of europe the same conservative values are backed by 'christian democratic party' its another name for a conservative party.

Sasa kesho kikitokea chama cha siasa Tanzania kikijiita 'chritian democrats' na chenyewe kikisema atuna nia ya kusambaza dini bali ni family values na muongozo sahihi kimaisha bila ya dini fualni yeyote anaruhusiwa kujiunga, tunachopinga ni ufisadi na maadili mengine kinyume cha jamii na mengineo sidhani kama watakua wamekosea ni misingi hii ya dini ya uislamu pia inapinga. Je muslims watakipokeaje hiki chama? THINK

Na values za consevative are not much different from religion ones, juzi tumeona kabla ya uchaguzi UK mwanamke kuipeleka kesi makao makuu ya chama baada ya kushinda kuwa mgombea na baadhi ya wanachama wakuu kupinga, kwa kusema alishakuwa na affair na mme wa mtu a decade ago. Lakini hizi ni values ambazo ni morally right under the party and somehow related with religions.

Point hapa ni hivi hii Benki si semi kama hipo wrong but is it right in our society. Turkey can call itself a secular society lakini ukweli ni kwamba the're being tolerant of other religions, hila the social majority will still remain muslim that will remain the unspoken word but a fact. The same can be said about the west they can call themselves secular societies hila the fact remain the same. Therefore a Bank like this has no impact at all, apart from being a positive investment kwao through employment and Tax.

Tanzania can also call itself a secular society (but we are not the west nor the east) we have the challenge to maintain the right conscious equillibrum kwa sababu ni kwamba we have received colonial ideologies and we need to balance them fit for our current social. The last thing we want is to divide us, therefore we have to be careful of the long term consequences na haya mambo ya ku-f@cken embrace everything that is thrown at us. Its for us to weigh the pros and cons before we take everything for selfishness purposes.

Well like i have come to understand, what do I know in the end? apparently very little regarding tanzania and its people.

PS. Now you can mess the text Knob.

Juma analysis yako kuhusu effect ya labelling ni muhimu.

Ndiyo maana nikauliza labda inabidi tu re-examine hili jina la "Islamic banking", unless hii inayoitwa "Islamic banking" ina kitu kilicho uniquely Islamic.

Hebu ona verses za Biblia kuhusu swala lililo very central to the so called "Islamic banking"

Leviticus 25:37 Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.

Deuteronomy 23:19 Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:

Exodus 22:25 If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.

Leviticus 25:35-37 And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee. Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee. Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.

See more here http://www.bible-topics.com/Usury-or-Interest.html

Kwa hiyo core ya hii idea ya "Islamic banking" is not that Islamic at all.

Kwangu mimi, argument iliyo valid kutoka kwa secularists ni kwamba hizi religious banking projects zisiwe funded na taxpayers funds.In other words kusiwe na Islamic banking project iliyoanzishwa na benki za kiserikali zinazotumia funds za kiserikali.Lakini kama Stanbinc wameona kuna haja ya ku accommodate wateja wao wa kiislamu sioni tatizo.

 

[Mkandara]

Hata wasilamu vilevile hakuna.Maana chukua mfano mdogo tu, kabla ya Islamic banking walikuwa wakieka wapi pesa yao. Waambie wakujibu kimoyomoyo.

Mkuu nakukubali sana tu hata Waislaam issue ni ile ile. Kifupi ktk maswala ya dini sisi wote ni Wanafiki kama ulivyosema hapo awali..Sisi ni Manazi wa imani za dini kama vile washabiki wa Mpira ambao wengi hawajui hata kuucheza. Mimi binafsi napokea riba na kwa kufanya hivyo naondoka ktk Uislaam lakini pia haiondoi uharamu wa riba wala sina mamlaka ya kuwaambia wengine kuwa riba ni halali.

Moto wake nauona na najua fika kwamba kutozwa riba kumenirudisha nyuma zaidi kimaisha na kuniweka ktk hali ngumu zaidi ya kulipa madeni yasiyokwisha kuzaana, na sina jinsi kwani Bank na insitution zote zinafuata mfumo huo...I would prefer not to.
Inapotokea habari kama hii, inanibidi niwambie ukweli wananchi kama kanisa la katoliki lilivyofanya lakini sii kupinga tu ili mradi kuna Udini ktk suluhisho zima.

Ndjabu da dude,
Mkuu huko India kila province yaani mkoa unaongozwa Kidini. Ukisikia Punjab basi kuna sheria za Kipunjab (singasinga)zinatumika ambazo huzikuti mkoa wa Goa.. Hivyo kuanzisha Bank yenye sharia za Kiislaam tayari inaleta picha mbaya kwa sababu ya Udini wao.. Huko India hadi kesho huwezi kujichanganya kidini. Ukifanya hivyo unapewa laana na kutengwa na jumuiya yote iwe hata ni Urafiki tu. India sio nchi nzuri ya kutolea mfano hali wao wamejitenga kidini..

 

[Eric Cartman]

Kiranga,

Tatizo sio bank yenyewe wala system ya bank. Tatizo ni bank kutaka kuambatanisha jamii fulani na namna fulani ya maisha yanayostahili (kwenye hilo kundi), ktk jamii yenye ideologies tofauti kwa uwiano usio mkubwa sana.

Hapa kinachotendeka ni watu fulani kuwa reinforced even deeper in their everyday lives with a certain ideology ni kitu ambacho si kizuri kwenye nchi ambayo ina jaribu ku-balance total torelance. Nikupe mfano mmoja UK wanamichanganyiko ya dini nyingi na madhehebu mengi hila a
majority are christians (protestants).

Hivi karibuni Pope ameomba kuja kutembelea ki ziara ya dini, unaweza kuamini hiki kitu ni muhimu kwao, mpaka kilikua kwenye election debates. Mtu jujuu unaweza sema hawa jamaa nao whats the big deal, ni hivi hapa pia kuna waumini wa dini ambao are dedicated to their religion na baadhi wanapigania haki za modernisation ktk makanisa.

Since pope is too conservative inabidi wanasiasa na watu wa juu wa hakikishe atakocho hotubia hakita provoke many in their society. Things such as the right to female vicars, talking about anti gay marriages (na upuuzi mwingine wa wazungu unao wasumbua) not that he is wrong/or wright au hao politicians wote hawakubaliani nae, but its about whats fit for the society has to be respected. Even a day speech if it is to be broadcasted should not aim to provoke people's perspective of things.

On the other hand kesho aje sheik mkubwa sijui hata kupita wote duniani na aje na mahubiri hayo hayo kwa target audience yake it wont be such a fuss in their houses of reps, labda kutakuwa na protest but not as much kwakuwa wanajua a majority wont listen to him. Unaona hapo, two different people with the same message (with little differences to their followers) can receive different attentions. These peope measure whats right for them and what can be tolerated not just for the of tolerance but for social harmony.

With a pope speech being a Christian it would be broadcasted on national media and bound to make headlines, if it creates controversies the're bound to be debates for a period of time and even part of the speech being documented with modern historians that how huge he is. Lakini with the Sheik it would be received differently, and it wont cover nor appear on the news unless he is talking something to do with suicide bombing.

Kwa hivyo hii bank kama nilivyosema sijasema ni kitu kibaya au watu wanalazimishwa, hila je is it right kwenye nchi yetu what are the long term social implications of these kinds of investment. Especially now people at a time when Tanzania religious tension is growing by day. Do we need to bridge the gap or let nature take its course and the people be the judges. Trust if life was like that America would still have two ideologies the southern and the north before the civil war, the english would still be fighting the scots for power etc. People are subjects to manipulation its the job of those in power to maintain the balance of whatever ideologies they have. And in my opinion this aint the right especially at this time where our tolerance is being tested.

Well what do I know?

 

[Mkandara]

Juma Contana,

Hapa kinachotendeka ni watu fulani kuwa reinforced even deeper in their everyday lives with a certain ideology ni kitu ambacho si kizuri kwenye nchi ambayo ina jaribu ku-balance total torelance. Nikupe mfano mmoja UK wanamichanganyiko ya dini nyingi na madhehebu mengi hila a
majority are christians (protestants).

Mkuu wangu kwa kusoma maelezo yako naweza kukubali kirahisi ikiwa tutayachukulia maelezo yako kwa Udini na sio kukubali kuwepo kwa uhuru wa watu wote kuchagua imani wanayoikubali na wakaheshimiwa maadam hailazimishi wengine kuamini hivyo. Hata ukitazama itikadi za Kisiasa..Sisi wote tumelazimika kutumia ideology za wataalam (wazungu) kinyume cha tamaduni zetu maadam kuna uhuru tosha wa kila mwanachama wa vyama hivi kufuata mafundisho yao..Na sii lazima ukikubali sera za mathlan Chadema basi wewe ni Chadema. Ama maadam wananchi wameikubali CCM kuongoza basi hao wote walioichagua CCM ni wana CCM ama kuna jitihada za kuwabasilisha wananchi wote kuwa wanaCCM..

Ni muhimu sana kutambua tofauti kati ya kueneza propaganda za kutangaza jina la ....na kufungua huduma ambayo itawalenga wengi japokuwa imeanzishwa na CCM. Kwa mfano Kilimo Kwanza, unaweza tu kupinga kilimo kwanza kwa sababu za kiutendaji au hakina manufaa kwa wakulima lakini ni ujuha mkubwa kupinga Kilimo kwanza kwa sababu tu sera hiyo imeletwa na CCM..Nadhani malengo ya sera yoyote ndiyo hutenganisha kibaya na kizuri maswala ya utekelezaji wake inategemea na uzalendo wa wahusika.

Maswala ya Pope na Utawala wa Uingereza yanaanzia mbali tena ya kidini. Utengano baina ya Vatican na Utawala wa Malkia unajulikana wazi ni sawa na kumleta kiongozi wa Palestina au rais wa nchi za kiarabu pale Tel Aviv ahutubie. Bila shaka kutakuwepo na mshikemshike tofauti na hotuba ya kiongozi mwingine yeyote. Idd Amin tu alipokuja miaka ya 70 nchi nzima iliganda kusikiliza redio zetu za 277..Tofauti na hotuba za mzee Jomo Kenyatta...

Swala la pili, Umezungumzia kuhusu America, nadhani umesahau kwamba nchi hiyo imepatikana kwa imani ya Kikristu, tofauti zao zilikuwa ktk kumtumikia Malkia. Ni uhuru usiokuwa na tofauti na Uhuru wa nchi nyinginezo kwani kinachotakiwa ni kuziweka tofauti zenu pembeni na ku deal na tishio kubwa. Tumewaona Zimbabwe wandebele na Washona wakiungana kumwondoa Kaburu. Wazuru na Washona huko South kumwondoa Kaburu, sisi wenyewe makabila 120 kuungana kwa lengo la kumwondoa Muingereza pasipo kufikiria mkwanza imani ya Nyerere (Ukristu)..Na tusingeweza kufanya lolote kama Waislaam na Wakristu wangezuiliwa ku praxtice what they believe in...

Ni uvumilivu na kuheshimu utamaduni wa mwenzako ndio umetuwezesha sote kujipanga kama jumuiya moja pasipo kuhofia kumwezwa na kundi jingine. Na hakika Amerika, UK na Canada hizi ni nchi za kwanza duniani zenye uvumilivu mkubwa wa jamii na tamaduni nyinginezo tofauti na maelezo yako - Tolerance has to be in practice to be tested...Huko kwao ndiko tolerance imekuwa tested kwa kila hali..

Mtanzania hajawahi kuwa tolerance wa dini au ideology nyinginezo ila siku zote tunapinga kuwepo kwa dini tusiyo iamini. Mkristu hapendi kuona Uislaam na Muislaam hapendi kuona Ukristu kwa kila hali na laukama angekuwa na uwezo angepiga marufuku dini nyinginezo. Hii ndiyo tofauti kubwa ya Wadanganyika na watu wengineo na sababu kubwa bado tupo ktk kiza kikubwa cha UJINGA na ULIMBUKENI..
Til' then.......