Katika swali langu sikuzumzungumzia chochote kufariki kwa mtoto wa Mbeki kwa sababu wala sijui hilo jambo. Swali langu lililenga kupata ufafanuzi juu ya madai ya Thabo Mbeki alipokuwa Rais kwamba UKIMWI hausababishwi na virusi vya UKIMWI bali unasababishwa na kuharibiwa kwa mfumo wa kinga mwili kwa sababu ya umaskini na lishe duni. Msimamo wake ulisababisha Afrika Kusini kukataa kupokea msaada wa ARVs na maelfu ya watu kufa bila sababu.
In the 1990s, supported by scientists described as minority, dissident and maverick, you boldly and courageously claimed that AIDS is not caused by HIV, but by a collapse of the immune system due to poverty and poor nutrition. As a result of your stance, your Government refused to receive the ARV assistance from international pharmaceutical industries. Your stance also almost caused a moratorium in HIV prevention efforts not just in south africa, but in the whole continent..
i) Reflecting and looking back to your presidency, and given the pace at which South Africa has reduced the HIV infection rates and HIV related deaths, do you still maintain the same position regarding the cause of HIV?
ii) Do you have any regrets over your position?
Recently, Harvard scientists published a study report showing that about 300,000 died in South Africa because of your policy stance. The findings of this study have been validated by my scientists, including those in South Africa
Except that one cannot be an ideologue without an ideology!
HIV leads to Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome ... That's the bottom line fact... But sio kila HIV patient must have AIDS kama akifata.masharti ya dawa na lishe sahihi .. Sioni why one would argue about this while there dozens of medical journal publications . Nenda PubMed.com or newengland journal of medicine www.nejm.com
As if fanatical conventionalism is not, by its virtue of denying dissidence at the expense of free enquiry and pursuit of knowledge for the overall betterment of humanity that is tantamount to scientific totalitarianism, is not an ideology.
Hapa kwa suala la HIV/AIDS kuchukua maamuzi magumu kwa faida ya wengine kungekuwa kukubali kwamba HIV inasababisha AIDS, kuwapa wahanga antiviral zinazohusika affordably, kupunguza HIV/AIDS prevalence na maambukizo, na kuondokana na quackery ya kusema HIV haisababishi AIDS (na at the same time Mbeki alijaribu kuitibu kwa mitishamba by the way)
Nakubaliana na wewe kwamba kuna wakati watu wanachukua maamuzi magumu sio tu kwa faida ya wengine waliopo, bali hata kwa vizazi vijavyo. Mbeki hakufanya hivyo.
Ukiangalia maambukizi from ground zero, kwa jicho la kuangalia "Brownian motion" ya maambukizi, utajua kwamba maabukizi yanavyodhibitiwa mapema zaidi, ndivyo udhibiti wa maambukizi zaidi kwa mbele zaidi unavyokuwa rahisi. This is basic viral/ bacterial propagation couternance.Ndo maana madaktari wanataka mgonjwa asicheleweshwe kupewa dawa, kwa sababu unavyozidi kuchelewa kutoa dawa kwa mgonjwa ndo virusi/ bacteria wanavyozidi kuzaliana. This is not limited to one patient. If you think of the entire planet as a biosphere, the leap of transferring this concept to a whole society is not that impressive. Early treatment causes less infections in the future. even if you don't want to spend the money on saving the lives of the existing patients, spend the money to cut infections. Mbeki did not see it that way.
Part of the tragedy is that Mbeki had so much clout, Africa was behind him, the Pharmaceuticals were somewhat prepared to compromise, but he chose to be the smuggest ideologue in the face of all prudence!
Maambukizi yanaweza kuangaliwa kama geometric progression zaidi - not exactly, emphasis on zaidi- zaidi ya arithmetic progression (geometric progression ya 2,4,16,256,65536 na arithmetic progression 2,4,6,8,10) ukiidhibiti geometrical progression mapema.
Mbeki alikuwa na nafasi ya kuicheck growth at the early stages of a geometric progression, he lallygagged, he oblomoved, he schmoozed, he labalabaed, he did everything but led in the right direction.
Ahsante kwa ufafanuzi wa swali lako. Ila wanasiasa inabidi mjitokeze haraka kufafanua mambo kwa sababu hapa sio tu kuwa kumesambaa habari ambazo si za kweli kuhusu wewe, bali hata kumhusu Mbeki na familia yake
Nikija kwenye swali lenyewe nina haya machache
Swali lilikuwa zuri na lingejibika vyema iwapo mtazamo na msimamo wa Mbeki juu ya swali hilo unaonekana kubadilika. Ukifuatilia kwenye vyombo vya habari, ni wazi kuwa msimamo wa Mbeki haujabadilika. Na ili aweze kutolea ufafanuzi msimamo wake huo ambao hauendani na mtazamo wa wengi na unatizamwa kwa jicho hasi, angehitaji muda mrefu zaidi ya ule unaopatikana kwenye kongamano hilo dogo.
Swali lingekuwa general zaidi kwamba anazinaonaje sera za UKIMWI zinazochukuliwa na serikali za Afrika ukilinganisha na zile alizochukua yeye, ninadhani labda tungeweza kupata undani wake juu ya swali hilo indirecty.
Licha ya kuwa hizi data inaweza kuonekana kwamba zimeongezea nguvu swali lako, ukizitazama kwa upande wa Mbeki (na kwa upande wa mantiki) zimedhoofisha mno hoja yako.
Mbeki yeye msimamo wake unapingana na wanasayansi hao wa silka ya Harvard halafu wewe unamnukulia data kutoka kwa hao hao wanasayansi anaopingana nao kuonyesha kuwa anakosea kuwapinga hao wanasayansi?!
Ni sawa na kumuuliza Kikwete kuhusu ongezeko la haraka la umaskini Tanzania kwa ku-back up hoja yako kwa nukuu iliyotolewa na utafiti wa Chadema Arusha.
Atakujibu "tumeshasema hao wana kiwanda cha uongo huko Arusha", na atakuwa amefifilisha kabisa hoja kuu ya ongezeko la umaskini Tanzania. Na hicho hasa ndicho alichofanya Mbeki. Kafifilisha hoja kuu kwa sababu ya data zako.
I for once do not dispute the severity of the bacteria nor his stupid remarks one could argue he doesn't have a medical background and probably he still believed in traditional medicines, misinformed of the bacteria etc etc etc, and the whole world knows they were a stupid comments at the end of the day considering the facts.
Kwani Kitila alimpinga Mbeki? Angalieni swali jamani, 'Unaendelea kusimamia kauli yako?'Hapo Kitila alichemsha. Report ya world bank iliyotaka mwaka huu inaonyesha kuwa kuna correlation kati ya kipato na ugonjwa wa UKIMWI.
I for once do not dispute the severity of the bacteria nor his stupid remarks one could argue he doesn't have a medical background and probably he still believed in traditional medicines, misinformed of the bacteria etc etc etc, and the whole world knows they were a stupid comments at the end of the day considering the facts.
At the same time he did so much for the country and trying to improve his peoples life chances.
Here then you have a rare chance of asking questions that are beneficial to you, do you choose the obvious stupid one the record (even you know it was stupid) or first ask him about those successful deeds he had done for his country considering we are talking of the future of our continent.
Something tells me you will try to justify the reasons behind asking about his past stupid remarks.
Its all about opportunity cost usiku mwema.
Not to go off topic. Just trying to capture a common meme that traverses both narrative's depths here.
Lakini, mfano mzuri, mimi kama atheist nisiyeamini biblia, mara nyingine ninapopewa proof of the existence of god backed by the authority of the bible (something that I do not believe to be divine, since I do not believe in a personal god) napata the most opportune chance of debunking god . After all, Dr. Asimov cites the Bible as the Atheist's most potent tol of refuting the existence of god.
The point is, a falsity of this degree should not be that hard to debunk. And if it is, it is not a falsity per se, maybe a controversy.
Kwa hiyo, mara nyingine kumpa Mbeki citations za Harvard kunaweza kuwa ni kumpa chance ya kuonyesha jinsi gani hizo studies za Harvard zilivyojaa uongo, kama zimejaa uongo.
Na akikataa kujibu swali maana yake ni kwamba kakubali kwamba hizo studies za Harvard, pamoja na yote yaliyokuwa - no yanayoweza kuwa- implied negatively kutokana na swali la Dr. Mkumbo, ni kweli.
OK the virus not much different though to a common man.the bacteria?
It only means you will not make a good politician 😛
As a politician huwezi kutumia dakika tano ya kongamano kujibu swali gumu la ku-debunk hoja za wanasayansi bila ya matayarisho kwa sababu unajua kuwa chance ya kutoeleweka vyema ni kubwa zaidi kuliko hata ya kueleweka tu.
Kwa hiyo unachofanya ni ku-debunk namna hoja hizo zilivyowasilishwa tu.
Utafiti wa kisayansi unaoangalia correlation ya policy na vifo hauwezi kusema "so and so people died" (kama alivyosema Kitila) bali "so and so people might have died" na hapo ajue fika kuna caveats kibao na maelezo ya kuwa hiyo ni "worst case scenario" na in reality hatuna uhakika wangapi walikufa, if at all
Data za Kitila zimempa loophole kubwa mno Mbeki, na kwa vile ni mwanasiasa akaichukua mara moja bila kuchelewa
Planning his speech, Winston thinks of everything. He even, one suspects, looks ahead to see where he is likely to be interrupted. Then, if the interruptions come, he is, more often than not, ready for them with a telling reply. He certainly did this in his Budget speeches as Chancellor. Those speeches were so framed that his announcements of tax changes came in reply to interruptions. He would "talk round" the point until some Opposition M.P. shouted impatiently, "What about it?" and then – back would come the announcement with a bang…. "Where does the family start?" asked Winston rhetorically. He answered his own question – "It starts with a young man falling in love with a girl!" Eagerly his opponents seized the chance to laugh. But he was in no whit disconcerted. It seemed that this was precisely what he had decided in advance that they would do, for he beamed at them and chortled – "Well, no suitable alternative has yet been found!" The passage was remembered for that joke.
"Finest Hour" senior editor James Lancaster,
He did so much? What is that you call "so much"?
Or just being president of SA is already "so much"? Similarly to Dr. Salim being the Secretary General of OAU and Dr. Migiro being the Secretary (somewhat literally) of Ban Ki Moon? The office holding is an achievement, never mind the deeds.Is that what you mean?
And when this is one of the biggest issues of his administration - one that would describe his country's population pyramid for decades, if not centuries to come- how can you say he did so much by ignoring this?
How many Lucky Dubes, Dlala Mapantsula, Isidingo stars, future Winnie Mandelas, thebe Madupes etc etc are not going to grace this earth because of Mbeki's stance?
And how does that factor in the present lethargy towards the African renaissance which Mbeki so championed?
You seem to think every politicians beliefs is directly embedded into the social thinking and accepted. Unfortunately the remarkable thing about human being is having a reason ability and experience is the mother of all lessons.
Sasa unadhani watu huko south-afrika walikuwa hawajui vyanzo vya magonjwa na sababu za kufa for your infromation kuna mpaka studies of why the disease was spreading so much na sababu zake. Watu wameshajua kwamba miners living homes for a long period of times had the habits of sharing prostitutes and in return kurudisha hayo magonjwa kwenye familia zao. Halikadhalika wake zao nao kwakuwa kutokuwa na waume zao for long periods of time walikuwa wakisambaza hayo magonjwa waume zao wanaporudi na kuambukiza ugonjwa kwenye communities.
Hapo social scholars had done those researches way back before Mbeki hajaropoka, unless you take south africans as programmed robots labda kauli yake unaweza hipa uzito, lakini i doubt wa-south afrika ambao walikuwa wanashuhudia haya matatizo at first hand na mapendekezo mengi yaliyotolewa na ma-experts and much awareness campaigns of the disease sidhani kama walimuoana anaufahamu kwa hapo.
Sasa basi Mbeki tena kafanya yepi kwenye uchumi wa south afrika na mbinu zipi ambazo mandela hakufanya kwenye kujaribu kusaidia watu wake.
Then you decide which was the irrelevant question kwa Mbeki kwa matatizo yetu yaa sasa na kwa faida yetu kumuuliza kuhusu jambo asilolijua (apparently kutokana na vast studies done on his own background) au kumuuliza aliweza vipi kukuza uchumi wa south afrika?
Me out.
Winston Churchill, probably the most successful politician from the UK of the last century, used to prepare himself for every quip, heckle, boo and question.
The best, wittiest politician would know how to quip an eight second nugget that would capture his depth without requiring elucidation if time was of the essence.
Mbeki just realized he couldn't think that quick, or gave up preparing altogether.
And politics for me would be like trying to make the entire earth run on solar energy. So ahead of the times it's counterproductive.
And yet you insist it is worth posing the question to him in the first place.Nisaidie nikuelewe.
Mtu ambaye haamini kwamba virusi vinaeneza AIDS anatusaidia vipi zaidi ya mtu anayeamini kwamba HIV inasababisha AIDS hapa?
Correlation is not causation. Unaweza kuonyesha correlation kati ya kula chocolate na nishani za Nobel, hiyo haimaanishi kula chocolate sana kunapelekea kupata nishani ya Nobel.
I understand that there is an argument to be made that HIV/AIDS is linked to poverty (e.g lack of education which is a function of poverty, contributes largely to infection). But Mbeki's original remarks were irresponsibly politicized and dishonest, and in dismissing this question (in light of Dr. Mkumbo's clarification that no personal references were made - how did that even get recorded as so?-) the question remains valid and one that will haunt Mbeki to his grave, if not define him entirely.
Why, now even the buffoon Zuma looks more successful in the HIV/AIDS fight.
While I do not exactly endorse a Pol Pot style anti-intellectuallism, there are some cases - and Mbeki is the prime example- of intellectuallism amok, out of touch with reality, and elitism floating it's head in the clouds.
While the masses suffer.
Winston Churchill, probably the most successful politician from the UK of the last century, used to prepare himself for every quip, heckle, boo and question.
The best, wittiest politician would know how to quip an eight second nugget that would capture his depth without requiring elucidation if time was of the essence.
Mbeki just realized he couldn't think that quick, or gave up preparing altogether.
And on the question of politics, politics for me would be like trying to make the entire earth run on solar energy. So ahead of the times it's counterproductive.
Nay, the academic audience at UDSM should have known better - they should have read and listened to his previous elucidation of his position; and as G has intimated, nowhere would they have found his retraction - why should he elaborate over and over again that he has not recanted or 'recalled' his take from publications, to borrow that phrase that was unceremoniously used to strip him of the presidency?
"Thabo Mbeki: The Dream Deferred describes how the president contacted the author earlier this year to reiterate some of the views that caused uproar in the medical community before Mr Mbeki stopped talking publicly about Aids several years ago" - Mbeki admits he is still Aids dissident six years on | World news | The Guardian