Dr. Kitila ampa tabu Thabo Mbeki

Dr. Kitila ampa tabu Thabo Mbeki

Katika swali langu sikuzumzungumzia chochote kufariki kwa mtoto wa Mbeki kwa sababu wala sijui hilo jambo. Swali langu lililenga kupata ufafanuzi juu ya madai ya Thabo Mbeki alipokuwa Rais kwamba UKIMWI hausababishwi na virusi vya UKIMWI bali unasababishwa na kuharibiwa kwa mfumo wa kinga mwili kwa sababu ya umaskini na lishe duni. Msimamo wake ulisababisha Afrika Kusini kukataa kupokea msaada wa ARVs na maelfu ya watu kufa bila sababu.

Ahsante kwa ufafanuzi wa swali lako. Ila wanasiasa inabidi mjitokeze haraka kufafanua mambo kwa sababu hapa sio tu kuwa kumesambaa habari ambazo si za kweli kuhusu wewe, bali hata kumhusu Mbeki na familia yake


Nikija kwenye swali lenyewe nina haya machache

In the 1990s, supported by scientists described as minority, dissident and maverick, you boldly and courageously claimed that AIDS is not caused by HIV, but by a collapse of the immune system due to poverty and poor nutrition. As a result of your stance, your Government refused to receive the ARV assistance from international pharmaceutical industries. Your stance also almost caused a moratorium in HIV prevention efforts not just in south africa, but in the whole continent..

i) Reflecting and looking back to your presidency, and given the pace at which South Africa has reduced the HIV infection rates and HIV related deaths, do you still maintain the same position regarding the cause of HIV?
ii) Do you have any regrets over your position?

Swali lilikuwa zuri na lingejibika vyema iwapo mtazamo na msimamo wa Mbeki juu ya swali hilo unaonekana kubadilika. Ukifuatilia kwenye vyombo vya habari, ni wazi kuwa msimamo wa Mbeki haujabadilika. Na ili aweze kutolea ufafanuzi msimamo wake huo ambao hauendani na mtazamo wa wengi na unatizamwa kwa jicho hasi, angehitaji muda mrefu zaidi ya ule unaopatikana kwenye kongamano hilo dogo.

Swali lingekuwa general zaidi kwamba anazinaonaje sera za UKIMWI zinazochukuliwa na serikali za Afrika ukilinganisha na zile alizochukua yeye, ninadhani labda tungeweza kupata undani wake juu ya swali hilo indirecty.


Recently, Harvard scientists published a study report showing that about 300,000 died in South Africa because of your policy stance. The findings of this study have been validated by my scientists, including those in South Africa

Licha ya kuwa hizi data inaweza kuonekana kwamba zimeongezea nguvu swali lako, ukizitazama kwa upande wa Mbeki (na kwa upande wa mantiki) zimedhoofisha mno hoja yako.

Mbeki yeye msimamo wake unapingana na wanasayansi hao wa silka ya Harvard halafu wewe unamnukulia data kutoka kwa hao hao wanasayansi anaopingana nao kuonyesha kuwa anakosea kuwapinga hao wanasayansi?!

Ni sawa na kumuuliza Kikwete kuhusu ongezeko la haraka la umaskini Tanzania kwa ku-back up hoja yako kwa nukuu iliyotolewa na utafiti wa Chadema Arusha.

Atakujibu "tumeshasema hao wana kiwanda cha uongo huko Arusha", na atakuwa amefifilisha kabisa hoja kuu ya ongezeko la umaskini Tanzania. Na hicho hasa ndicho alichofanya Mbeki. Kafifilisha hoja kuu kwa sababu ya data zako.
 
Except that one cannot be an ideologue without an ideology!

As if fanatical conventionalism is not, by its virtue of denying dissidence at the expense of free enquiry and pursuit of knowledge for the overall betterment of humanity that is tantamount to scientific totalitarianism, is not an ideology.
 
HIV leads to Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome ... That's the bottom line fact... But sio kila HIV patient must have AIDS kama akifata.masharti ya dawa na lishe sahihi .. Sioni why one would argue about this while there dozens of medical journal publications . Nenda PubMed.com or newengland journal of medicine www.nejm.com

Tell that to Mbeki.

Mbeki kakataa kwamba HIV ndo "PEKEE" inayosababisha AIDS. Anakwambia unemployment inasababisha AIDS. Unemployment imekuwepo since time immemorial, lakini hatuna rekodi za HIV/AIDS kabla ya miaka 50-60 to my knowledge.

Tatizo Mbeki na Companero ukiwaletea PubMed.com na New england Journal (ahsante mwana unayajua ma journal yako, maana kuna vijana wengine hapa hata kuwatajia tu ma journal ni elimu tosha) ukiwatajia hayo watakwambia you are a victim of globalization.

Wakati wao wenyewe hata hawaja establish ma journal yao kuonyesha otherwise scientifically.

Wanakwambia antiviral drugs zina sumu halafu wanakwambia uende kwa Sangoma ukale muarobaini kwa maji machafu, kutibu AIDS.

Wanakuongezea tumbo la kuhara katika system ambayo immunity tayari ishakuwa compromised. Wanaharakisha kukuua.

Mbeki Mkomunisti bado yule.

Siwezi kushangaa kama alikuwa na Stalinistic designs za kuua watu wake mwenyewe ili kuondoa the weaklings in his country.
 
As if fanatical conventionalism is not, by its virtue of denying dissidence at the expense of free enquiry and pursuit of knowledge for the overall betterment of humanity that is tantamount to scientific totalitarianism, is not an ideology.

Those who pursue knowledge at least respect the culture of questioning, and do answer questions.

Mbeki couldn't even answer a question, let alone claim to be a pursuer of knowledge!
 
Hapa kwa suala la HIV/AIDS kuchukua maamuzi magumu kwa faida ya wengine kungekuwa kukubali kwamba HIV inasababisha AIDS, kuwapa wahanga antiviral zinazohusika affordably, kupunguza HIV/AIDS prevalence na maambukizo, na kuondokana na quackery ya kusema HIV haisababishi AIDS (na at the same time Mbeki alijaribu kuitibu kwa mitishamba by the way)

Nakubaliana na wewe kwamba kuna wakati watu wanachukua maamuzi magumu sio tu kwa faida ya wengine waliopo, bali hata kwa vizazi vijavyo. Mbeki hakufanya hivyo.

Ukiangalia maambukizi from ground zero, kwa jicho la kuangalia "Brownian motion" ya maambukizi, utajua kwamba maabukizi yanavyodhibitiwa mapema zaidi, ndivyo udhibiti wa maambukizi zaidi kwa mbele zaidi unavyokuwa rahisi. This is basic viral/ bacterial propagation couternance.Ndo maana madaktari wanataka mgonjwa asicheleweshwe kupewa dawa, kwa sababu unavyozidi kuchelewa kutoa dawa kwa mgonjwa ndo virusi/ bacteria wanavyozidi kuzaliana. This is not limited to one patient. If you think of the entire planet as a biosphere, the leap of transferring this concept to a whole society is not that impressive. Early treatment causes less infections in the future. even if you don't want to spend the money on saving the lives of the existing patients, spend the money to cut infections. Mbeki did not see it that way.

Part of the tragedy is that Mbeki had so much clout, Africa was behind him, the Pharmaceuticals were somewhat prepared to compromise, but he chose to be the smuggest ideologue in the face of all prudence!

Maambukizi yanaweza kuangaliwa kama geometric progression zaidi - not exactly, emphasis on zaidi- zaidi ya arithmetic progression (geometric progression ya 2,4,16,256,65536 na arithmetic progression 2,4,6,8,10) ukiidhibiti geometrical progression mapema.

Mbeki alikuwa na nafasi ya kuicheck growth at the early stages of a geometric progression, he lallygagged, he oblomoved, he schmoozed, he labalabaed, he did everything but led in the right direction.

I for once do not dispute the severity of the bacteria nor his stupid remarks one could argue he doesn't have a medical background and probably he still believed in traditional medicines, misinformed of the bacteria etc etc etc, and the whole world knows they were a stupid comments at the end of the day considering the facts.

At the same time he did so much for the country and trying to improve his peoples life chances.

Here then you have a rare chance of asking questions that are beneficial to you, do you choose the obvious stupid one the record (even you know it was stupid) or first ask him about those successful deeds he had done for his country considering we are talking of the future of our continent.

Something tells me you will try to justify the reasons behind asking about his past stupid remarks.

Its all about opportunity cost usiku mwema.
 
Ahsante kwa ufafanuzi wa swali lako. Ila wanasiasa inabidi mjitokeze haraka kufafanua mambo kwa sababu hapa sio tu kuwa kumesambaa habari ambazo si za kweli kuhusu wewe, bali hata kumhusu Mbeki na familia yake


Nikija kwenye swali lenyewe nina haya machache



Swali lilikuwa zuri na lingejibika vyema iwapo mtazamo na msimamo wa Mbeki juu ya swali hilo unaonekana kubadilika. Ukifuatilia kwenye vyombo vya habari, ni wazi kuwa msimamo wa Mbeki haujabadilika. Na ili aweze kutolea ufafanuzi msimamo wake huo ambao hauendani na mtazamo wa wengi na unatizamwa kwa jicho hasi, angehitaji muda mrefu zaidi ya ule unaopatikana kwenye kongamano hilo dogo.

Swali lingekuwa general zaidi kwamba anazinaonaje sera za UKIMWI zinazochukuliwa na serikali za Afrika ukilinganisha na zile alizochukua yeye, ninadhani labda tungeweza kupata undani wake juu ya swali hilo indirecty.




Licha ya kuwa hizi data inaweza kuonekana kwamba zimeongezea nguvu swali lako, ukizitazama kwa upande wa Mbeki (na kwa upande wa mantiki) zimedhoofisha mno hoja yako.

Mbeki yeye msimamo wake unapingana na wanasayansi hao wa silka ya Harvard halafu wewe unamnukulia data kutoka kwa hao hao wanasayansi anaopingana nao kuonyesha kuwa anakosea kuwapinga hao wanasayansi?!

Ni sawa na kumuuliza Kikwete kuhusu ongezeko la haraka la umaskini Tanzania kwa ku-back up hoja yako kwa nukuu iliyotolewa na utafiti wa Chadema Arusha.

Atakujibu "tumeshasema hao wana kiwanda cha uongo huko Arusha", na atakuwa amefifilisha kabisa hoja kuu ya ongezeko la umaskini Tanzania. Na hicho hasa ndicho alichofanya Mbeki. Kafifilisha hoja kuu kwa sababu ya data zako.

Not to go off topic. Just trying to capture a common meme that traverses both narrative's depths here.

Lakini, mfano mzuri, mimi kama atheist nisiyeamini biblia, mara nyingine ninapopewa proof of the existence of god backed by the authority of the bible (something that I do not believe to be divine, since I do not believe in a personal god) napata the most opportune chance of debunking god . After all, Dr. Asimov cites the Bible as the Atheist's most potent tol of refuting the existence of god.

The point is, a falsity of this degree should not be that hard to debunk. And if it is, it is not a falsity per se, maybe a controversy.

Kwa hiyo, mara nyingine kumpa Mbeki citations za Harvard kunaweza kuwa ni kumpa chance ya kuonyesha jinsi gani hizo studies za Harvard zilivyojaa uongo, kama zimejaa uongo.

Na akikataa kujibu swali maana yake ni kwamba kakubali kwamba hizo studies za Harvard, pamoja na yote yaliyokuwa - no yanayoweza kuwa- implied negatively kutokana na swali la Dr. Mkumbo, ni kweli.
 
Folks, it's embarrassing to attribute to Mbeki things that he didn't say - refer to the video clip that NN posted and at least this excerpt of the 'infamous' letter at http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/news/lettermbeki.htm:

We have now also established a National AIDS Council, again chaired by the Deputy President and bringing together the government and civil society.


An important part of the campaign that we are conducting seeks to encourage safe sex and the use of condoms.


At the same time, as an essential part of our campaign against HIV-AIDS, we are working to ensure that we focus properly and urgently on the elimination of poverty among the millions of our people.


Similarly, we are doing everything we can, within our very limited possibilities, to provide the necessary medicaments and care to deal with what are described as 'opportunistic diseases' that attach to acquired immune deficiency.


As a government and a people, we are trying to organize ourselves to ensure that we take care of the children affected and orphaned to AIDS.


We work also to ensure that no section of our society, whether public or private discriminates against people suffering from HIV-AIDS.


In our current budget, we have included a dedicated fund to finance our activities against HIV-AIDS. This is in addition to funds that the central government departments as well as the provincial and local administrations will spend on this campaign.


We have also contributed to our Medical Research Council such funds as we can, for the development of an AIDS vaccine.


Demands are being made within the country for the public health system to provide anti-retroviral drugs for various indications, including mother-to-child transmission.


We are discussing this matter, among others with our statutory licensing authority for medicines and drugs, the Medicines Control Council (MCC).


Toward the end of last year, speaking in our national parliament, I said that I had asked our Minister of Health to look into various controversies taking place among scientists on HIV-AIDS and the toxicity of a particular anti-retroviral drug.


In response to this, among other things, the Minister is working to put together an international panel of scientists to discuss all these issues in as transparent a setting as possible.


As you know, AIDS in the United States and other developed Western countries has remained largely confined to a section of the male homosexual population.


For example, the cumulative heterosexual contact, US percentage for AIDS cases among adults/adolescents, through June 1999 is given as 10 percent. (HIV-AIDS Surveillance Report: Midyear edition. Vol 11, No 1, 1999. US Department of Health and Human Services).


The cumulative absolute total for this age group is reported as being 702,748.


US AIDS deaths for the period January 1996 to June 1997 were stated by the US CDC as amounting to 32,750. (Trends in the HIV and AIDS Epidemic: 1998. CDC).


On May 13, 1999, a SAFA-AFP report datelined Paris stated that 1998 UNAIDS and WHO reports had said that AIDS was responsible for one death in five in Africa, or about two million people.


It quoted a Dr. Awa Coll Seck of UNAIDS as saying that there are 23 million carriers in Africa of HIV.


This SAFA-AFP report quotes Dr. Coll Seck as saying: 'In Southern Africa, the prevalence of the (HIV) infection has increased so much in five years that this region could, if the epidemic continues to spread at this rate, see its life expectancy decline to 47 by 2005.'


(Interestingly, the five years to which Dr. Coll Seck refers coincide closely with the period since our liberation from apartheid, white minority rule in 1994).


The report went on to say that almost 1,500 people are infected in South Africa every day and that, at that point, the equivalent of 3.8 million people in our country carried the virus.


Again as you are aware, whereas in the West HIV-AIDS is said to be largely homosexually transmitted, it is reported that in Africa, including our country, it is transmitted heterosexually.


Accordingly, as Africans, we have to deal with this uniquely African catastrophe that:

  • contrary to the West, HIV-AIDS in Africa is heterosexually transmitted;
  • contrary to the West, where relatively few people have died from AIDS, itself a matter of serious concern, millions are said to have died in Africa; and,
  • contrary to the West, where AIDS deaths are declining, even greater numbers of Africans are destined to die.

It is obvious that whatever lessons we have to and may draw from the West about the grave issue of HIV-AIDS, a simple superimposition of Western experience on African reality would be absurd and illogical.


Such proceeding would constitute a criminal betrayal of our responsibility to our own people. It was for this reason that I spoke as I did in our parliament, in the manner in which I have indicated.


I am convinced that our urgent task is to respond to the specific threat that faces us as Africans. We will not eschew this obligation in favour of the comfort of the recitation of a catechism that may very well be a correst response to the specific manifestation of AIDS in the West.


We will not, ourselves, condemn our own people to death by giving up the search for specific and targeted responses to the specifically African incidence of HIV-AIDS.


I make these comments because our search for these specific and targeted responses is being stridently condemned by some in our country and the rest of the world as constituting a criminal abandonment of the fight against HIV-AIDS.
 
I for once do not dispute the severity of the bacteria nor his stupid remarks one could argue he doesn't have a medical background and probably he still believed in traditional medicines, misinformed of the bacteria etc etc etc, and the whole world knows they were a stupid comments at the end of the day considering the facts.

the bacteria?
 
Hapo Kitila alichemsha. Report ya world bank iliyotaka mwaka huu inaonyesha kuwa kuna correlation kati ya kipato na ugonjwa wa UKIMWI.
Kwani Kitila alimpinga Mbeki? Angalieni swali jamani, 'Unaendelea kusimamia kauli yako?'
Tatizo la watu wengi (hata walimu darasani) ukimuuliza swali anachukulia kwamba unampinga
 
I for once do not dispute the severity of the bacteria nor his stupid remarks one could argue he doesn't have a medical background and probably he still believed in traditional medicines, misinformed of the bacteria etc etc etc, and the whole world knows they were a stupid comments at the end of the day considering the facts.

At the same time he did so much for the country and trying to improve his peoples life chances.

Here then you have a rare chance of asking questions that are beneficial to you, do you choose the obvious stupid one the record (even you know it was stupid) or first ask him about those successful deeds he had done for his country considering we are talking of the future of our continent.

Something tells me you will try to justify the reasons behind asking about his past stupid remarks.

Its all about opportunity cost usiku mwema.

He did so much? What is that you call "so much"?

Or just being president of SA is already "so much"? Similarly to Dr. Salim being the Secretary General of OAU and Dr. Migiro being the Secretary (somewhat literally) of Ban Ki Moon? The office holding is an achievement, never mind the deeds.Is that what you mean?

And when this is one of the biggest issues of his administration - one that would describe his country's population pyramid for decades, if not centuries to come- how can you say he did so much by ignoring this?

How many Lucky Dubes, Dlala Mapantsula, Isidingo stars, future Winnie Mandelas, Thebe Madupes etc etc are not going to grace this earth because of Mbeki's stance?

And how does that factor in the present lethargy towards the African renaissance which Mbeki so championed?
 
Not to go off topic. Just trying to capture a common meme that traverses both narrative's depths here.

Lakini, mfano mzuri, mimi kama atheist nisiyeamini biblia, mara nyingine ninapopewa proof of the existence of god backed by the authority of the bible (something that I do not believe to be divine, since I do not believe in a personal god) napata the most opportune chance of debunking god . After all, Dr. Asimov cites the Bible as the Atheist's most potent tol of refuting the existence of god.

The point is, a falsity of this degree should not be that hard to debunk. And if it is, it is not a falsity per se, maybe a controversy.

Kwa hiyo, mara nyingine kumpa Mbeki citations za Harvard kunaweza kuwa ni kumpa chance ya kuonyesha jinsi gani hizo studies za Harvard zilivyojaa uongo, kama zimejaa uongo.

Na akikataa kujibu swali maana yake ni kwamba kakubali kwamba hizo studies za Harvard, pamoja na yote yaliyokuwa - no yanayoweza kuwa- implied negatively kutokana na swali la Dr. Mkumbo, ni kweli.

It only mean you will not make a good politician 😛

As a politician huwezi kutumia dakika tano ya kongamano kujibu swali gumu la ku-debunk hoja za wanasayansi bila ya matayarisho kwa sababu unajua kuwa chance ya kutoeleweka vyema ni kubwa zaidi kuliko hata ya kueleweka tu.

Kwa hiyo unachofanya ni ku-debunk namna hoja hizo zilivyowasilishwa tu.

Utafiti wa kisayansi unaoangalia correlation ya policy na vifo hauwezi kusema "so and so people died" (kama alivyosema Kitila) bali "so and so people might have died" na hapo ajue fika kuna caveats kibao na maelezo ya kuwa hiyo ni "worst case scenario" na in reality hatuna uhakika wangapi walikufa, if at all

Data za Kitila zimempa loophole kubwa mno Mbeki, na kwa vile ni mwanasiasa akaichukua mara moja bila kuchelewa
 
It only means you will not make a good politician 😛

As a politician huwezi kutumia dakika tano ya kongamano kujibu swali gumu la ku-debunk hoja za wanasayansi bila ya matayarisho kwa sababu unajua kuwa chance ya kutoeleweka vyema ni kubwa zaidi kuliko hata ya kueleweka tu.

Kwa hiyo unachofanya ni ku-debunk namna hoja hizo zilivyowasilishwa tu.

Utafiti wa kisayansi unaoangalia correlation ya policy na vifo hauwezi kusema "so and so people died" (kama alivyosema Kitila) bali "so and so people might have died" na hapo ajue fika kuna caveats kibao na maelezo ya kuwa hiyo ni "worst case scenario" na in reality hatuna uhakika wangapi walikufa, if at all

Data za Kitila zimempa loophole kubwa mno Mbeki, na kwa vile ni mwanasiasa akaichukua mara moja bila kuchelewa

Winston Churchill, probably the most successful politician from the UK of the last century, used to prepare himself for every quip, heckle, boo and question.

Planning his speech, Winston thinks of everything. He even, one suspects, looks ahead to see where he is likely to be interrupted. Then, if the interruptions come, he is, more often than not, ready for them with a telling reply. He certainly did this in his Budget speeches as Chancellor. Those speeches were so framed that his announcements of tax changes came in reply to interruptions. He would "talk round" the point until some Opposition M.P. shouted impatiently, "What about it?" and then – back would come the announcement with a bang…. "Where does the family start?" asked Winston rhetorically. He answered his own question – "It starts with a young man falling in love with a girl!" Eagerly his opponents seized the chance to laugh. But he was in no whit disconcerted. It seemed that this was precisely what he had decided in advance that they would do, for he beamed at them and chortled – "Well, no suitable alternative has yet been found!" The passage was remembered for that joke.

"Finest Hour" senior editor James Lancaster,

The best, wittiest politician would know how to quip an eight second nugget that would capture his depth without requiring elucidation if time was of the essence.

Mbeki just realized he couldn't think that quick, or gave up preparing altogether.

And on the question of politics, politics for me would be like trying to make the entire earth run on solar energy now. So ahead of the times it's counterproductive.

For now let me just debunk usurpers.
 
He did so much? What is that you call "so much"?

Or just being president of SA is already "so much"? Similarly to Dr. Salim being the Secretary General of OAU and Dr. Migiro being the Secretary (somewhat literally) of Ban Ki Moon? The office holding is an achievement, never mind the deeds.Is that what you mean?

And when this is one of the biggest issues of his administration - one that would describe his country's population pyramid for decades, if not centuries to come- how can you say he did so much by ignoring this?

How many Lucky Dubes, Dlala Mapantsula, Isidingo stars, future Winnie Mandelas, thebe Madupes etc etc are not going to grace this earth because of Mbeki's stance?

And how does that factor in the present lethargy towards the African renaissance which Mbeki so championed?

You seem to think every politicians beliefs is directly embedded into the social thinking and accepted. Unfortunately the remarkable thing about human being is having a reason ability and experience is the mother of all lessons.

Sasa unadhani watu huko south-afrika walikuwa hawajui vyanzo vya magonjwa na sababu za kufa for your infromation kuna mpaka studies of why the disease was spreading so much na sababu zake. Watu wameshajua kwamba miners leaving homes for a long period of times had the habits of sharing prostitutes and in return kurudisha hayo magonjwa kwenye familia zao. Halikadhalika wake zao nao kwakuwa kutokuwa na waume zao for long periods of time walikuwa wakisambaza hayo magonjwa kwenye jamii na kuambukiza ugonjwa kwenye communities.

Hapo social scholars had done those researches way back before Mbeki hajaropoka, unless you take south africans as programmed robots labda kauli yake unaweza hipa uzito, lakini i doubt wa-south afrika ambao walikuwa wanashuhudia haya matatizo at first hand na mapendekezo mengi yaliyotolewa na ma-experts and much awareness campaigns of the disease sidhani kama walimuoana anaufahamu kwa hapo.

Sasa basi Mbeki tena kafanya yepi kwenye uchumi wa south afrika na mbinu zipi ambazo mandela hakufanya kwenye kujaribu kusaidia watu wake.

Then you decide which were the relevant questions kwa Mbeki kwa matatizo yetu yaa sasa na kwa faida yetu kumuuliza kuhusu jambo asilolijua (apparently kutokana na vast studies done on his own background) au kumuuliza aliweza vipi kukuza uchumi wa south afrika?

Me out.
 
You seem to think every politicians beliefs is directly embedded into the social thinking and accepted. Unfortunately the remarkable thing about human being is having a reason ability and experience is the mother of all lessons.

Sasa unadhani watu huko south-afrika walikuwa hawajui vyanzo vya magonjwa na sababu za kufa for your infromation kuna mpaka studies of why the disease was spreading so much na sababu zake. Watu wameshajua kwamba miners living homes for a long period of times had the habits of sharing prostitutes and in return kurudisha hayo magonjwa kwenye familia zao. Halikadhalika wake zao nao kwakuwa kutokuwa na waume zao for long periods of time walikuwa wakisambaza hayo magonjwa waume zao wanaporudi na kuambukiza ugonjwa kwenye communities.

Hapo social scholars had done those researches way back before Mbeki hajaropoka, unless you take south africans as programmed robots labda kauli yake unaweza hipa uzito, lakini i doubt wa-south afrika ambao walikuwa wanashuhudia haya matatizo at first hand na mapendekezo mengi yaliyotolewa na ma-experts and much awareness campaigns of the disease sidhani kama walimuoana anaufahamu kwa hapo.

Sasa basi Mbeki tena kafanya yepi kwenye uchumi wa south afrika na mbinu zipi ambazo mandela hakufanya kwenye kujaribu kusaidia watu wake.

Then you decide which was the irrelevant question kwa Mbeki kwa matatizo yetu yaa sasa na kwa faida yetu kumuuliza kuhusu jambo asilolijua (apparently kutokana na vast studies done on his own background) au kumuuliza aliweza vipi kukuza uchumi wa south afrika?

Me out.

Nisaidie nikuelewe.

Mtu ambaye haamini kwamba virusi vinaeneza AIDS anatusaidia vipi zaidi ya mtu anayeamini kwamba HIV inasababisha AIDS hapa?
 
Winston Churchill, probably the most successful politician from the UK of the last century, used to prepare himself for every quip, heckle, boo and question.



The best, wittiest politician would know how to quip an eight second nugget that would capture his depth without requiring elucidation if time was of the essence.

Mbeki just realized he couldn't think that quick, or gave up preparing altogether.

And politics for me would be like trying to make the entire earth run on solar energy. So ahead of the times it's counterproductive.

Nay, the academic audience at UDSM should have known better - they should have read and listened to his previous elucidation of his position; and as G has intimated, nowhere would they have found his retraction - why should he elaborate over and over again that he has not recanted or 'recalled' his take from publications, to borrow that phrase that was unceremoniously used to strip him of the presidency?

"Thabo Mbeki: The Dream Deferred describes how the president contacted the author earlier this year to reiterate some of the views that caused uproar in the medical community before Mr Mbeki stopped talking publicly about Aids several years ago" - Mbeki admits he is still Aids dissident six years on | World news | The Guardian
 
Nisaidie nikuelewe.

Mtu ambaye haamini kwamba virusi vinaeneza AIDS anatusaidia vipi zaidi ya mtu anayeamini kwamba HIV inasababisha AIDS hapa?
And yet you insist it is worth posing the question to him in the first place.
 
Correlation is not causation. Unaweza kuonyesha correlation kati ya kula chocolate na nishani za Nobel, hiyo haimaanishi kula chocolate sana kunapelekea kupata nishani ya Nobel.

I understand that there is an argument to be made that HIV/AIDS is linked to poverty (e.g lack of education which is a function of poverty, contributes largely to infection). But Mbeki's original remarks were irresponsibly politicized and dishonest, and in dismissing this question (in light of Dr. Mkumbo's clarification that no personal references were made - how did that even get recorded as so?-) the question remains valid and one that will haunt Mbeki to his grave, if not define him entirely.

Why, now even the buffoon Zuma looks more successful in the HIV/AIDS fight.

While I do not exactly endorse a Pol Pot style anti-intellectuallism, there are some cases - and Mbeki is the prime example- of intellectuallism amok, out of touch with reality, and elitism floating it's head in the clouds.

While the masses suffer.

Kiranga,

Baada ya Dr. Kitala kutoa ufafanuzi, nilijibu kuwa swali lake lilikuwa ni mwafaka au sahihi. Mwanzilishi wa thread alionyesha kwa namna fulani kuwa msimamo wa Mbeki uliatarisha maisha ya mtoto wake.

Tukirudi kwenye mada, kipindi Mbeki anatoa msimamo wake costs za matibabu ya HIV ilikuwa prohibitive. Mgonjwa mmoja alikuwa anatumia gharama kama za dollar 6000-10000 kwa mwaka. Kwa gharama hizi hata kama kulikuwa na misaada ya makampuni kulikuwa hakuna uwezakano kwa South Afrika kutoa huduma hizo. Na kama wangejaribu, basi serikali ilitakiwa kuacha kutoa huduma zingine za afya na kuangalia HIV tu.

Kilichosaidia upatikanaji wa madawa katika miaka ya hivi karibuni sio jitihada za Zuma au Kikwete. Ni vitu viwili muhimu. Kwanza ni serikali ya Marekani chini ya Bush kuchangia kwa kiasi kikubwa pesa. Pili ni kuruhusu utengenezaji wa generic drugs katika nchi zinazoendelea.

Sasa hivi gharama za kumpatia matibabu mgonjwa mmoja zimepungua kutoka maelfu ya dollar kwa mwaka mpaka dollar 300 (dollar moja kwa siku).

Pamoja na kushuka kwa gharama, serikali ya Mbeki haikupiga kampeni nzuri katika suala la kuelimisha kinga ya HIV. Kwa mfano waziri wake wa afya Dr. Mantombazana 'Manto' Edmie Tshabalala-Msimang (Trained in the USSR and Tanzania) alidai kuwa alivumbua dawa ya ukimwi kama vile babu wa Loliondo. Kwa kutumia pombe na mizizi alikuwa anatoa huduma za HIV. Kwa kufanya hivi utawala wa Mbeki ulionekana hauko sambamba na matukio.
 
Winston Churchill, probably the most successful politician from the UK of the last century, used to prepare himself for every quip, heckle, boo and question.



The best, wittiest politician would know how to quip an eight second nugget that would capture his depth without requiring elucidation if time was of the essence.

Mbeki just realized he couldn't think that quick, or gave up preparing altogether.

And on the question of politics, politics for me would be like trying to make the entire earth run on solar energy. So ahead of the times it's counterproductive.

If we all were Winston Churchill there will be no Winston Churchill

And knowing your weakness is a forte not a vice. Kama amedhani hawezi ku-think quick na akachukua hatua, good for him maana si lazima Rais au mwanasiasa aweze ku think quick. Taro Aso wa Japani inasemekana kuwa alikuwa na dyslexia na hotuba zake zilikuwa zinaandikwa kwa utaratibu maalum ili aweze kusoma vyema (na aliwahi kuchemka mara kadhaa) na haimaanishi alikuwa Waziri mkuu mbaya zaidi ya wengine kutokana na tatizo lake hilo

Mkiuliza maswali jipangeni vyema au wanasiasa watatumia chance kukwepa maswali hayo

Mtu anakwambia siamini mapepo, wewe unamjia na data za Mama Rwakatare kuwa mbona katoa mapepo watu Mia kanisani mwake?!
 
Nay, the academic audience at UDSM should have known better - they should have read and listened to his previous elucidation of his position; and as G has intimated, nowhere would they have found his retraction - why should he elaborate over and over again that he has not recanted or 'recalled' his take from publications, to borrow that phrase that was unceremoniously used to strip him of the presidency?

"Thabo Mbeki: The Dream Deferred describes how the president contacted the author earlier this year to reiterate some of the views that caused uproar in the medical community before Mr Mbeki stopped talking publicly about Aids several years ago" - Mbeki admits he is still Aids dissident six years on | World news | The Guardian

Because every question comes from an angle.

And we have yet to hear the Dar-es-salaam angle of this question's answer. Thanks to Dr. Mkumbo we have a fairly decent version of the Dar question.

Mr. Mbeki is more at home in Dar/ Tanzania than some of these western capitals, why, a good number of his comrades must have gone to Solomon Mahlangu in Morogoro. There is a certain leeway you have when answering this question in a sort of home away from home that he cannot be afforded in SA or the West..

Sadly, his decision not to answer denies us the Dar version of the answer, where he could hyperbole on colonialism and globalization for hours on end with no interruption.

It is conceivable that he found his arguments tired and decided to shun the whole attempt.
 
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