CCM na Wasomi wa Taifa Letu

[Zakumi]

Mkuu Zakumi,
Ningependelea utoe hiyo proof kama ulivyoainisha.

Pili, sikubaliani na hoja kuwa Nyerere alijenga chuo kimoja kilichotoa watu chini ya 500. Sentensi ilivyo ni kweli lakini maudhui yake yana walakini.

Hatuwezi kuongelea chuo kikuu kimoja au wasomi chini ya 500 bila kuiangalia historia na ukweli unaoambatana na huo.
Wakati anakabidhiwa nchi alikuwa na watu wa kiwango cha chuo kikuu wasiozidi 10. Kwa maneno mengine hata angewachagua wote wawe katika baraza la mawaziri bado alikuwa na upungufu.

Wakati hayo yakitokea alichukua nchi ikiwa haina chuo kikuu, vyuo vya elimu ya kati n.k. Hapo hujaongelea uwepo wa maprofesa wakufundisha vyuo hivyo.

Changamoto alizo kuwa nazo ni nyingi kuliko kiongozi yoyote aliyefuata. Illiteracy ilikuwa juu sana, hali ya afya ilikuwa mbaya, miundo mbinu hafifu, nishati mgogoro na wakati huo huo tukiishi katika dunia hii ya mafuta kutoka arabuni.
Majanga kama njaa, mafuriko hayakusita kumsubiri afanye kazi aliyotarajia.

Wapi aanzie katika hali dhaifu kama hiyo?
Kwanza ilikuwa kujenga vyuo vya elimu ya kati katika kila sekta ili kutoa wataalam wa kupunguza tatizo wakati nchi ikijenga uwezo. Tukaona kila tupliposafiri vyuo vya elimu, kilimo, medical assistant, technical college n.k.
Lengo halikuwa kupata madokta 100 kwa wakati mmoja watakaoishia katika hospitali za rufaa, lengo lilikuwa kupata wataalam wa akti kuzui yale yaliyokuwa katika uwezo wao.

Pengine ukiacha chuo kikuu cha UDOM nitajie chuo kingine cha elimu ya juu au ya kati kilichojengwa na marais waliofuata.
Wote walichofanya ni ku-upgrade vyuo vilivyokuwa tayari katika kada ya kati.

Pengine unitajie katika Hospitali za serikali zilizopo zipi zimejengwa nje ya utawala wa Nyerere.
Tafadhali nitajie vituo vya afya 20 kati ya 100 unavyojua vilijengwa baada ya mwalimu.

Katika nishati, tuliwahi kujadili kuwa hakuna rais aliyefuata aliyewekeza katika nishati kuliko Nyerere.
Kuwekeza sina maana ya kutumbukiza mabilioni kwa mtu mmoja na kumlipa milioni 167 kwa siku, nina maanisha kitu tunachoweza kusema huu ni uwekezaji kama Nyumba ya mungu, Kidatu n.k.

Nyerere aliwekeza katika viwanda vidogo ili kuinua thamani ya bidhaa za wakulima kama Pamba. Hakuna kiongozi aliyefuata ambaye amewekeza katika viwanda zaidi ya Mwalimu. Waliofuata wameaua vyote na kuacha tuagize mitumba na zile za china.

Miundombinu inayojengwa sasa ni kazi ya uwekezaji wa Nyerere.
Sikumbuki kiongozi aliyeanza kwa kuvunja pori ili kujenga bara bara, achilia mbali ujenzi wa reli zn.k.
Ni katika kipindi chake nchi iliingia vitani pamoja na kufa kwa EAC.

Katika kipindi cha miaka 23 ambayo ni michache kuliko pale alipoachia hadi sasa bado alifanya mambo mengi kuliko viongozi wote watatu kwa pamoja.

Ninachotaka kukueleza hapa siyo nini Mwalimu alifanya, nataka uiangalie picha nzima kutoka kila angle kabla ya kutoa takwimu za wahitimu 500. Uwezekano wa kutoa wahitimu 5,000 ulikuwepo, je hicho ndicho kilikuwa kipaumbele kwa wakati na changamoto zilizomkabili?

Kwanini tuangalie watu 500 au pungufu bila kuangalia ilikuaje na ingefanyikaje.
Nyerere kama mwanadamu ana mapungufu sasa ni wajibu wetu tuonyeshe mapungufu yako wapi na angefanya nini kwa wakati ule. Kuibuka na takwimu zachuo kikuu kimoja, wahitimu 500 bado hakujaweza kutueleza kosa lilikuwa wapi na kwamba takwimu hizo kwa kuangalia social-economic factors zinatoa ukweli.

Nguruvi,

I took great pains to compile historical data from Unesco. Please refer the attached files. In those files, which cover the period between 1970 and 1997, you will clearly see the efforts the country took to educate the nation.

There were was a surge of primary school net enrollment in late 70s which reached its peak in 1980. Afterward there was a downward spiral of the process which reached 57% in 1985, 51% in 1990, 49% in 1997.

With regard to secondary school education, the number is pathetic. In 1970, the country enrolled 3,762 secondary school students and 9,847 in 1985.

The entrance for tertiary education was even worse. In 1970, the country enrolled 2,027 students. In 1985 the country recorded 4863 new students.

Remember, tertiary education includes all post secondary school institutions of learning.

The number of students enrolled in various levels of education was under the auspices of government policies.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Nguruvi,

I took great pains to compile historical data from Unesco. Please refer the attached files. In those files, which cover the period between 1970 and 1997, you will clearly see the efforts the country took to educate the nation.

There were was a surge of primary school net enrollment in late 70s which reached its peak in 1980. Afterward there was a downward spiral of the process which reached 57% in 1985, 51% in 1990, 49% in 1997.

With regard to secondary school education, the number is pathetic. In 1970, the country enrolled 3,762 secondary school students and 9,847 in 1985.

The entrance for tertiary education was even worse. In 1970, the country enrolled 2,027 students. In 1985 the country recorded 4863 new students.

Remember, tertiary education includes all post secondary school institutions of learning.

The number of students enrolled in various levels of education was under the auspices of government policies.

Zakumi,

With all due respect to your efforts, je unajua pia kwamba investments no education katika taifa hufuatana na expected returns to education i.e the economic value of education kwa kuzingatia the levels of education za walio wengi katika taifa husika? Katika miaka ya mwanzo ya uhuru, Private Rreturns to education ilionekana ipo zaidi kwenye primary education, na uamuzi huu ulifuatia studies mbalimbali ambazo zili determine hilo; ndio maana primary school enrollment ikapewa kipaumbele kuliko higher levels - secondary and tertiary; miaka ya baadae, late 1970s, mwalimu alitaka kubadilisha hilo lakini World Bank wakamwambia kwamba Tertiary Education in Africa is a luxury; Aligombana nao sana lakini kwa vile wao ndio walikuwa wameshikilia mirija yote, hapakuwa na jinsi but to abide with the policy approach;

Suala lingine muhimu hapa pia ni kwamba katika nchi karibia zote duniani, education sector ipo structured kama a pyramid, ambapo at the base, ambayo ni level one kuna shule nyingi sana za msingi, then as you climb up, the pyramid shrinks i.e. at level two - secondary education, na eventually at level three - tertiary level, it gets even smaller;

 

[Zakumi]

Zakumi,

With all due respect to your efforts, je unajua pia kwamba investments no education katika taifa hufuatana na expected returns to education i.e the economic value of education kwa kuzingatia the levels of education za walio wengi katika taifa husika? Katika miaka ya mwanzo ya uhuru, Private Rreturns to education ilionekana ipo zaidi kwenye primary education, na uamuzi huu ulifuatia studies mbalimbali ambazo zili determine hilo; ndio maana primary school enrollment ikapewa kipaumbele kuliko higher levels - secondary and tertiary; miaka ya baadae, late 1970s, mwalimu alitaka kubadilisha hilo lakini World Bank wakamwambia kwamba Tertiary Education in Africa is a luxury; Aligombana nao sana lakini kwa vile wao ndio walikuwa wameshikilia mirija yote, hapakuwa na jinsi but to abide with the policy approach;

Suala lingine muhimu hapa pia ni kwamba katika nchi karibia zote duniani, education sector ipo structured kama a pyramid, ambapo at the base, ambayo ni level one kuna shule nyingi sana za msingi, then as you climb up, the pyramid shrinks i.e. at level two - secondary education, na eventually at level three - tertiary level, it gets even smaller;

Mchambuzi,
The data shows that in late 80s and in 90s, there was a surge in secondary school enrolment. This happened despite the fact that the government reduced its investment in education sector significantly. So the question is what triggered the surge.

It’s the involvement of private sectors. Tanzania could have done much better and probably wouldn’t have asked the help of the World Bank if the private sector had been asked to enter into foray. However, for known and obscure reasons, Nyerere despised private sectors. During his tenure, he had rather ask for foreign aid than let private sector solve our problems. So there’s nothing to complain here.

Additionally, by late 70s the economy of Tanzania was in downward spiral, and I don’t know why the government wanted to expand public services during that time frame. Could you please enlighten me?

You can’t mess up with your economy and then ask the World Bank to help you unconditionally.

 

[Nguruvi3]

Mchambuzi,
The data shows that in late 80s and in 90s, there was a surge in secondary school enrolment. This happened despite the fact that the government reduced its investment in education sector significantly. So the question is what triggered the surge.

It’s the involvement of private sectors. Tanzania could have done much better and probably wouldn’t have asked the help of the World Bank if the private sector had been asked to enter into foray. However, for known and obscure reasons, Nyerere despised private sectors. During his tenure, he had rather ask for foreign aid than let private sector solve our problems. So there’s nothing to complain here.

Additionally, by late 70s the economy of Tanzania was in downward spiral, and I don’t know why the government wanted to expand public services during that time frame. Could you please enlighten me?

You can’t mess up with your economy and then ask the World Bank to help you unconditionally.

Zakumi, baada ya uhuru kitu cha kwanza ilikuwa kufuta ujinga (illiterate) ndiyo maana kilianzishwa kisomo cha ngumbaru. Hii ilikuwa kuwezesha watu at least to read a line or write a name.

Katika 60's hadi 70's kulikuwa tayari na watu waliokuwa wanakwenda shule katika tertiary na secondary education.
Ingawa ni wachahce hawa walileta msisimko wa elimu katika maeneo yao na enrolment ikapanda.
Lakini pia kumbuka universal education iliongeza sana watoto wanaomaliza shule za msingi.

Unafahamu education ina tabia moja. Ukieleimisha mtu mmoja katika jamii unaweza kujikuta unalazimika kujenga shule kwenye jamii hiyo katika miaka 10-15. Unachokiona 1980-1990 ni matokeo ya kazi ya 1960-80.

Unapomlaumu Nyerere kwa kutoiacha private sector ifanye kazi yake nadhani si sahihi.
Alipoondoka madarakani literate level ilikuwa 98% among the highest in the world according to UNESCO.

Leo tumerudi katika 60%. Tunashule nyingi sana na zingine zikiwa za private sector.
Kwanini turudi nyuma kama private sector ilikuwa ni jibu la matatizo?

Just think about this, watu wangapi wana afford hizi academy, medium na St Mary's.
Sehemu gani ya jamii inakuwa served na private sector katika education kiasi cha kutushawishi kuwa tukiziachia ziendelee zitatoa majibu ya matatizo yetu.

 

[Zakumi]

Zakumi, baada ya uhuru kitu cha kwanza ilikuwa kufuta ujinga (illiterate) ndiyo maana kilianzishwa kisomo cha ngumbaru. Hii ilikuwa kuwezesha watu at least to read a line or write a name.

Katika 60's hadi 70's kulikuwa tayari na watu waliokuwa wanakwenda shule katika tertiary na secondary education.
Ingawa ni wachahce hawa walileta msisimko wa elimu katika maeneo yao na enrolment ikapanda.
Lakini pia kumbuka universal education iliongeza sana watoto wanaomaliza shule za msingi.

Unafahamu education ina tabia moja. Ukieleimisha mtu mmoja katika jamii unaweza kujikuta unalazimika kujenga shule kwenye jamii hiyo katika miaka 10-15. Unachokiona 1980-1990 ni matokeo ya kazi ya 1960-80.

Unapomlaumu Nyerere kwa kutoiacha private sector ifanye kazi yake nadhani si sahihi.
Alipoondoka madarakani literate level ilikuwa 98% among the highest in the world according to UNESCO.

Leo tumerudi katika 60%. Tunashule nyingi sana na zingine zikiwa za private sector.
Kwanini turudi nyuma kama private sector ilikuwa ni jibu la matatizo?

Just think about this, watu wangapi wana afford hizi academy, medium na St Mary's.
Sehemu gani ya jamii inakuwa served na private sector katika education kiasi cha kutushawishi kuwa tukiziachia ziendelee zitatoa majibu ya matatizo yetu.

Nguruvi,

Please read those files and then show me when the literate rate of Tanzania reached 98%. By the time Nyerere left office in 1985, the literate rate had already plummeted to around 60%. So there was nothing to cheer there.

Concerning universal education (UPE), the program was a disaster. For, the planning and the implementation didn't take into consideration the inputs of key stakeholders, the educators.

Now with regard to adult education (Ngumbaru), the Swedish government played a major role in its implementation. However, at the end of the day, the participants were as good as illiterate.

The story line is Tanzania hasn't invested in education.

 

[Nguruvi3]

Zakumi,
Nadhani tunapaswa kwenda na ukweli. Nimerejea data zangu na kuona haikuwa 98% ilikuwa 90%.
Nyerere alipoondoka literacy level ilifikia 90% baada ya hapo ikaanza kuporomoka.
Nadhani umehamaki kutosoma vema nilichoandika. Sikusema Nyerere akiondoka ilikuwa 60%

Data hizi zimenukuliwa kutoka kwa iliyokuwa wizara ya Elimu na Utamaduni.

Na pia ningeomba ujibu swali langu la private sector katika elimu. Nimekuuliza mbona illiteracy level inaongezaeka licha ya kuruhusu private sector as compared to Nyerere's time.
Kwanini Nyerere alifanikiwa na sasa tunarudi nyuma, je bado unaamini hoja kuwa private sector ndio mwarobaini wa tatizo la elimu? Je, baada ya kuangalia hizo takwimu unaweza kusema tofauti na ulivyoandika awali?

 

[Zakumi]

Zakumi,
Nadhani tunapaswa kwenda na ukweli. Nimerejea data zangu na kuona haikuwa 98% ilikuwa 90%.
Nyerere alipoondoka literacy level ilifikia 90% baada ya hapo ikaanza kuporomoka.
Nadhani umehamaki kutosoma vema nilichoandika. Sikusema Nyerere akiondoka ilikuwa 60%

Data hizi zimenukuliwa kutoka kwa iliyokuwa wizara ya Elimu na Utamaduni.

Na pia ningeomba ujibu swali langu la private sector katika elimu. Nimekuuliza mbona illiteracy level inaongezaeka licha ya kuruhusu private sector as compared to Nyerere's time.
Kwanini Nyerere alifanikiwa na sasa tunarudi nyuma, je bado unaamini hoja kuwa private sector ndio mwarobaini wa tatizo la elimu? Je, baada ya kuangalia hizo takwimu unaweza kusema tofauti na ulivyoandika awali?

Did you read my files? It seems you didn't. literacy rate is proportion to enrollment rate. How could Tanzania achieve 90% of literacy rate when the enrollment of primary school students was below 90% for 100 years?

The donor nations and the government were interested to increase the number of students enrolled in primary school education. However, the quality of education wasn't up to the task instill students with necessary literacy skills.

Now concerning the contribution of private sector, I believe in 70s and 80s we underutilized it. Yes there were many Tanzanians who can't afford to pay for private education; however, their predicaments shouldn't impede those who can.

 

[Nguruvi3]

The donor nations and the government were interested to increase the number of students enrolled in primary school education. However, the quality of education wasn't up to the task instill students with necessary literacy skills.

Now concerning the contribution of private sector, I believe in 70s and 80s we underutilized it. Yes there were many Tanzanians who can't afford to pay for private education; however, their predicaments shouldn't impede those who can.

When you talk about literacy level that doesn't mean the quality.
Yes, the quality is one of the component, however it's not synonym to literacy.

If you need a discussion about the quality of education in 70's and 80's then let us talk about it in different way.
Zakumi, my question is all about this day and not a decade ago.
You're defecting question something not appealing.

Today we have many private sector education schools baptized as academy, medium, saint so and so, AB in collaboration with London ABC and all sorts of fancy name and color.
The literacy level has dwindled to the alarming point while illiteracy is on the rise. Why should it be like that!

I'm trying to read your mind which leans on witch hunt rather than the root cause.
You could not prove wrong the data I presented hence stand as facts.
We could have different sources of data, the main point is, can we defend them.

Your data clearly defeats your own logic. I don't think 27 yrs post Nyerere's tenure could be associated with the blunder and stupidity of the government of the day.
If three presidents could not rectify the problem((s), where do we get the courage to rebuff Nyerere's policy

Please stick on the data and defend your position with facts.

 

[Zakumi]

When you talk about literacy level that doesn't mean the quality.
Yes, the quality is one of the component, however it's not synonym to literacy.

If you need a discussion about the quality of education in 70's and 80's then let us talk about it in different way.
Zakumi, my question is all about this day and not a decade ago.
You're defecting question something not appealing.

Today we have many private sector education schools baptized as academy, medium, saint so and so, AB in collaboration with London ABC and all sorts of fancy name and color.
The literacy level has dwindled to the alarming point while illiteracy is on the rise. Why should it be like that!

I'm trying to read your mind which leans on witch hunt rather than the root cause.
You could not prove wrong the data I presented hence stand as facts.
We could have different sources of data, the main point is, can we defend them.

Your data clearly defeats your own logic. I don't think 27 yrs post Nyerere's tenure could be associated with the blunder and stupidity of the government of the day.
If three presidents could not rectify the problem((s), where do we get the courage to rebuff Nyerere's policy

Please stick on the data and defend your position with facts.

Actually, literacy rate is a measurable indicator which quantifies and also qualifies certain level of literacy skills. So your assertion that when we talk literacy rate we don’t mean the quality of education is invalid. There’s no country on the earth that has achieved 90% of literacy rate without taking into consideration the quality of its education system.

Concerning the current state of education, it’s important to discuss what happened in the past. For, education is a long term investment. Take for example the current crop of leaders in Tanzania, majority of them were educated in 70s and 80s. Their competency level is a reflection of our previous commitments in education whose principal architecture is Nyerere.

Nyerere was a pioneer and the first leader in the country to implement education policies in a very large scale. So hiccups and failures were inevitable for many reasons. First, his policies weren’t tested anywhere and there was no best practice around. Second, there were economic issues that curtailed the government abilities to finance various education programs.

So in a discussion like this, blaming Nyerere’s policies while learning from his mistakes isn’t a bad think at all. As a matter of fact, if he were alive, he would appreciate my efforts because during his tenure he was surrounded by people who were afraid to give constructive criticism.

Za10

 

[Ogah]

Actually, literacy rate is a measurable indicator which quantifies and also qualifies certain level of literacy skills. .............Za10

....well well well!.......ngoja nisome mada nzima......maana hapa.....duuuhh!

 

[Ogah]

..............Concerning the current state of education, it's important to discuss what happened in the past. For, education is a long term investment. Take for example the current crop of leaders in Tanzania, majority of them were educated in 70s and 80s. Their competency level is a reflection of our previous commitments in education whose principal architecture is Nyerere............Za10

Education is one thing.............performance is another.....................na performance inakuwa attributed na factors kibao.......... Zakumi I'm sure you know this!

 

[Ogah]

.................Nyerere was a pioneer and the first leader in the country to implement education policies in a very large scale. So hiccups and failures were inevitable for many reasons. First, his policies weren't tested anywhere and there was no best practice around. Second, there were economic issues that curtailed the government abilities to finance various education programs....................Za10

......kuna mambo unachanganya hapa.......ni policies zipi hizo za "education" zilizokuwa implemented na Mwl JKN (RIP) ambazo hazikuwa tested anywhere......can you support your claim?

 

[Ogah]

............So in a discussion like this, blaming Nyerere's policies while learning from his mistakes isn't a bad think at all. As a matter of fact, if he were alive, he would appreciate my efforts because during his tenure he was surrounded by people who were afraid to give constructive criticism.

Za10

Critiquing for betterment of our people is a good thing........Mwl JKN (RIP) alisema.......Pale nilipokosea rekebisheni......pale nilipofanya vema dumisheni.......Mkamleta Mar Malima na Mungai kurekebisha mfumo wa Elimu........hebu nipe matokeo ya elimu sasa yakoje...........

.........over twenty years later..........tumeuza kila kitu hata kile kilichokuwa kinatoa faida!............Maeneo yenye rasilimali ambayo JKN aliwaambia Makaburu et al yaache madini yetu mpaka pale wananchi wangu watakapo pata uwezo wa kuyachimba and/or ku-negotiate better deals.........well....tumeishia kuwapa wezi..................again Education is one thing na performance is another........

hii inanikumbusha story moja ya mwanamke mvivu (not to offend ladies though).......mwanamke huyo alikuwa kiota moto, sasa kuni zimechochewa yeye kaendelea kukaa position ile ile............baadaye akaanza kulia na kulalamika kuwa moto ni mkali...........mumewe akaja kumuambia hama hapo ulipo usogee mbali na moto..........

....I'm afraid..........kwa mtizamo wako nafikiri nitakuwa sijakosea nikisema Watanzania wengi tunaweza kulinganishwa na huyo mwanamke mvivu..........

 

[Zakumi]

Critiquing for betterment of our people is a good thing........Mwl JKN (RIP) alisema.......Pale nilipokosea rekebisheni......pale nilipofanya vema dumisheni.......Mkamleta Mar Malima na Mungai kurekebisha mfumo wa Elimu........hebu nipe matokeo ya elimu sasa yakoje...........

.........over twenty years later..........tumeuza kila kitu hata kile kilichokuwa kinatoa faida!............Maeneo yenye rasilimali ambayo JKN aliwaambia Makaburu et al yaache madini yetu mpaka pale wananchi wangu watakapo pata uwezo wa kuyachimba and/or ku-negotiate better deals.........well....tumeishia kuwapa wezi..................again Education is one thing na performance is another........

hii inanikumbusha story moja ya mwanamke mvivu (not to offend ladies though).......mwanamke huyo alikuwa kiota moto, sasa kuni zimechochewa yeye kaendelea kukaa position ile ile............baadaye akaanza kulia na kulalamika kuwa moto ni mkali...........mumewe akaja kumuambia hama hapo ulipo usogee mbali na moto..........

....I'm afraid..........kwa mtizamo wako nafikiri nitakuwa sijakosea nikisema Watanzania wengi tunaweza kulinganishwa na huyo mwanamke mvivu..........

Ogah,

You have used four posts when one should have sufficed. Anyway, having hard look at Nyerere's education policies doesn't mean I dislike him or I approve what's happened since he left the office. Nyerere did his best in education, but for many reasons he failed. That's fact.

Concerning the different between education and performance, I understand the different between the two, and I haven't tried to equate the terms. So please don't try to dispute something that exist only in your imagination. It doesn't make any sense or help your cause.

 

[Mnyamahodzo]

Kuwa msomi, katika zama za leo, ni pamoja na kuwa umesoma na kuendelea kusoma mambo mbalimbali yaliyomo dunia. Ni kweli kwa kamwe huwezi kumaliza vitabu achalia mbali kuwa kila siku vinaandikwa.

Mojawapo ya post iliyokuwa inachambua nafasi ya wasomi wa Tanzania ilikuwa ni ile iliyoanzishwa na Mtambuzi. Kwakuwa imehamishiwa kule jukwaa la Great Thinkers, ninaiweka link hapa ili ukaisome na kuweza kukichanngia kilichipo kule ukitokea hapa.
https://www.jamiiforums.com/great-thinkers/296242-ccm-na-wasomi-wa-taifa-letu-4.html#post4785039
Kwa wale wenye kibali cha kwenda jukwaa hilo ruksa.

 

[Mwalufunamba]

Sawa tumekuelewa. Ngoja nikasome halafu nichangie.