Beating the Drum on One Side: Confusing the People on Both Sides

[Tume ya Katiba]

Ritz, embu lielekeze hili swali kwa ndugu Said usikie jibu lake. NI swali rahisi sana kujibiwa.

MMM nimekuzoea kuwa huwa unaandika paragraph kazaa, imekuwaje leo unakuja na vijimistari vifupi vifupi?

 

[FaizaFoxy]

There are many more people who can narrate a similar type of suffering under different circumstances. Your story does not tell us why the students managed to pass with Division One at O level. Was it because they were Christians or were taught in Islamic schools and the the headmaster was a Muslim? This person has decided to analyse everything using the lens of religion. Some students could analyse using the lens of witchcraft, gender, tribalism, political affiliation, etc. I went to school with some people who blamed their failure in school and life on someone else but nothing about themselves.

This person goes on to perform badly in life after school apparently because he was in a Mfumo Kristo. But there are many Christians who have a similar experience, whom should they blame? There are many Muslims who have done very well, what happened?

As for Prof. Njozi, I know what he stands for. He is a person I have interacted with many times but not in religious discussions. The government gave him to head the Morogoro Muslim University but my dear friend turned it into a Madrasa, again reflecting who he is.

OOhh Professor Hirji you are here? Never knew.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Sheikh Mohammed Said, huyo Njozi nimeshamsoma vizuri tu kwenye mahandishi yake ni tabia zile zile kulialia na iman yake akisema 'tunaonewa'.

Licha ya kumsoma nimemshudia utendaji wake wa kazi nilipofanya ziara chuo kikuu cha kiislamu Morogoro kihonda, ni aibu sana mtu aliyepiga kelele dunia yote kwamba waislamu wanaonewa kwenye elimu kakabidhiwa chuo chenye raslimali zote na sasa kinamfia mikononi. Ama kweli mchawi mpe mwana alee.

Hapa kulinda heshima yenu ni vyema ungejikita kwenye kumjibu Profesa ungekuwa umefanya la maana sana sababu unapoanza kukimbia 'kidizain' inaonyesha ni kiasi gani uongo uliojaribu kuupandikiza kwa wenzako umeanza kukutafuna huku ukitazama. Lakini sisi tulikuonya siku nyingi ipo siku utaumbuka hukutaka kutusikia ukawa unainjoi kelele za wasiojielewa.

Mswiba mkubwa huu.

Si kweli, hakuna chuo cha Kiislam Morogoro, kuna chuo cha Waislam Morogoro. Kumbuka hilo, ni Muslim University of Morogoro na si "Islamic" University of Morogoro. Hata kifupi chake ni MUM na si IUM.

Hivi hizo shule huwa mnaenda kusomea ujinga?

 

[THE BIG SHOW]

Ame, yaani huyu watu wanasumbuka sana. Lengo lake ilikuwa ni kwa ajili ya wazee wake. Kosa lake jina la hilo kitabu kuwa kiujumla, a nation without heroes halafu yeye heroes ni wazee wake tu. Hapa amewavutia wengi. Pengine bila hilo jina leo tusinge jadili haya.

Kumbe inakuuma kwamba wahusika na wapigania uhuru hawa walioandikwa ni wazee wake??

au kinachokuuma nini hasa??

kwan huu sio ukweli?

teh teh teh

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Beating the Drum on One Side: Confusing the People on Both Sides

by Prof. Karim Hirji

Hypothetical Secondary School Enrolment Data At Uhuru – 1961

[TABLE="width: 492"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="width: 394, colspan: 3"] At Uhuru – 1961[/TD]
[TD="width: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 95"]In School[/TD]
[TD="width: 131"]Muslim[/TD]
[TD="width: 132"]Christian[/TD]
[TD="width: 134, colspan: 2"]Total[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 95"] Yes[/TD]
[TD="width: 131"] 200 (1%)[/TD]
[TD="width: 132"] 800 (4%)[/TD]
[TD="width: 134, colspan: 2"] 1,000 (2.5%)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 95"] No[/TD]
[TD="width: 131"]19,800 (99%)[/TD]
[TD="width: 132"]19,200 (96%)[/TD]
[TD="width: 134, colspan: 2"]39,000 (97.5%)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 95"]Total[/TD]
[TD="width: 131"]20,000 (100%)[/TD]
[TD="width: 132"]20,000 (100%)[/TD]
[TD="width: 134, colspan: 2"]40,000 (100%)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 95"][/TD]
[TD="width: 394, colspan: 3"]A Decade Later – 1971[/TD]
[TD="width: 3"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 95"] Yes[/TD]
[TD="width: 131"] 4,000 (13%)[/TD]
[TD="width: 132"] 6,000 (20%)[/TD]
[TD="width: 134, colspan: 2"]10,000 (17%)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 95"] No[/TD]
[TD="width: 131"]26,000 (87%)[/TD]
[TD="width: 132"]24,000 (80%)[/TD]
[TD="width: 134, colspan: 2"]50,000 (83%)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 95"] Total[/TD]
[TD="width: 131"]30,000 (100%)[/TD]
[TD="width: 132"]30,000 (100%)[/TD]
[TD="width: 134, colspan: 2"]60,000 (100%)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​

This table shows hypothetical secondary school enrolment by religion at two time points, Uhuru and ten years later. Four people interpreted the data.

Muslim Zealot: There is no equality ten years after Uhuru. Christians occupy 60% of the school places. We still face discrimination. The Christia dominated government is against us.

Christian Zealot: Why are the Muslims making a fuss? After all, we used to have 80% of the school places. That was the result of our own effort to build schools. The government took away our schools and gave Muslims a chance. Why do they not build schools of their own?

Racist Cynic: In 1961, 39,000 children were not in school. Ten years later, 50,000 children are not in school! Africans cannot rule themselves; colonialism was better.

Secular Analyst: In 1961, 99% of the Muslim and 96% of the Christian children did not go to school. Overall, only 2.5% were in school. Ten years later, school enrolment rate was about 17%. Among Muslims, it went up.

Karim Hirji is a retired Professor of Medical Statistics and a long-time writer on social, political and educational issues in Tanzania.
​

Professor anapojibu "Paper" iliyoenda shule kwa "hypothetical" data, halafu bado tunashangilia.

Professor Hirji kukiri tu kuwa hizo ni "hypothetical...Data..." ni kuwa amekiri kuwa data zake ni za ni kufikirika, jee na hao "Four people interpreted the data." ni akina nani zaidi ya wakufikirika?

Ikiwa hawa ndiyo ma Professor wetu hao wanafunzi sijui wakoje?

Sasa nnaamini kabisa kuwa wanafunzi wa Professor kama huyu wanakwenda kusomea ujinga.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

kajibu hilo swali mwisho kwa kutaja status yake na pia katoa sababu ya kwa nini anadhani kuwa itakuwa si sahihi

kumbuka kuhusu uchache wa wasomi wakati tunapata uhuru na ni kwa kiasi gani UDSM walijitahidi kwa wakati huo

issue ya Kitwana Kondo kusema 1999 wanafunzi waislam walikuwa 71% na wakristo plus wengineo 29% ni uongo. Kama Pinda tu anadanganya bungeni iwe Kondo?

Data alizoweka Professor Hirji alizokiri kuwa ni "hypothetical" ni za kweli? Unanchekesha.

Kitwana Kondo amesema anayo ripoti na ameyasemaa hayo bungeni na hakuambiwa bungeni alete ushahidi na bungeni bungeni ni nani asiyejuwa kuwa ukisema uongo unaambiwa amma ufute kauli yako amma ulete ushahidi na ukishindwa kuuleta ushahidi unaadhibiwa kwa kanuni zao. Sasa wewe unaepinga hayo ya Kitwana Kondo, tuoneshe ni wapi bungeni aliambiwa kuwa hayo si ya kweli, migalatia iliyojaa pale ingemwacha? Fikiri japo kiduchu.

 

[Mohamed Said]

Professor anapojibu "Paper" iliyoenda shule kwa "hypothetical" data, halafu bado tunashangilia.

Professor Hirji kukiri tu kuwa hizo ni "hypothetical...Data..." ni kuwa amekiri kuwa data zake ni za ni kufikirika, jee na hao "Four people interpreted the data." ni akina nani zaidi ya wakufikirika?


Ikiwa hawa ndiyo ma Professor wetu hao wanafunzi sijui wakoje?

Sasa nnaamini kabisa kuwa wanafunzi wa Professor kama huyu wanakwenda kusomea ujinga.

FF,
Baada ya hizi "Alice in Wonderland" data za Prof. Hirji mimi nikaweka
data zilizosomwa na Mzee Kondo ndani ya Bunge la Tanzania kuonyesha
dhulma tufanyiwayo Waislam hawa jamaa hawazitaki.

Hizi hapa chini:

"Lakini tuende kielimu. Ninayo ripoti ya mwaka huu. Waliofanya mtihani wa
darasa la saba kuingia darasa la tisa, asilimia 71 Waislamu. Asilimia 29 ni
wengine. Walioshinda katika wale asilimia 71 ni asilimia 21. Katika wale 29
walioshinda tena sema mwenyewe. Katika asilimia 29 waliokwenda shuleni
ni asilimia 79. Katika asilimia 71 waliokwenda darasa la tisa ni asilimia 21.


Sasa kuna moja, ama Waislamu wajinga ama akili yao haifanyi kazi, ama
mtu ukiwa Muislamu wewe huna kitu, ama kuna kitu. Sasa namwomba Waziri
anayehusika, anaposema aseme ya kwamba kwa hali ilivyo Waislamu
wameumbwa wajinga. Au kwa hali ilivyo kuna sababu kadha, kadha. Mwalimu
Nyerere alisema zamani ifanywe bidii ya kuwanyanyua waliokuwa chini. Sasa
bidii hii siyo ya kuwanyanyua waliokuwa chini. Bidii hii ni ya kuwakandamiza
waliokuwa chini."

Badala ya kujadili mambo yanayowagawa Watanzania kama haya jamaa wanataka
tujadili lini Nyerere kaja Dar es Salaam na hata nikiwashauri wafungue uzi mpya wa
mada hiyo mie In Sha Allah ntakuja hawataki. Wanang'ang'ania mjibu Prof. Hirji, mjibu
Prof. Hirji...

Mie hao maprofesa kila siku najibishananao tena uso kwa uso...
Labda wao ndiyo wageninao.

Mimi na Prof. Michael Lofchie US​

 

[THE BIG SHOW]

Mzee Mwanakijiji ni chakubimbi tuh

Mfia dini asie na mbele wala nyuma

KITABU CHAKE CHA RIWAYA ZA MAPENZ KILA NIKIPITA PALE MLIMAN CITY NAKIONA KIPO KINAENDEKEA KUDODA TUH

ANASHINDWA HATA NA ERICK SHIGONGO??

TEH TEH TEH

HATARI SANA

SASA MZEE KAMA HUYU ANASHINDA KUANDIKA RIWAYA ZA KUISIFIA NGONO AU ZINAA ANA AKILI TIMAMU KWELI??

BUSARA ZAKE ZIKO WAPI SASA

:lol: :lol:

Ritz,

Unajuwa mwanakijiji hao amepotoka kama si imempuruchuka kwani anaongozwa na hisia za CHUKI na ushabiki wa KIDINI.

Ikumbukwe kuwa WASOMI siku zote tunajadili DALILI (Facts) tu na si bla bla.

Unapoona mtu amefanya tafiti na kuja na chapisho la tafiti hiyo au hata Kuandika kitabu kutokana na tafiti yake basi WASOMI tunakaa chini kuusoma na kuupitia kwa kina Paper au Kitabu hicho KWA NIA ya kukielewa bila kuweka mbele hisia au chuki. Na unapogundua kuna MUSHKIRA basi na wewe kama MSOMI unaandika au unatoa PAPER ay KITABU chako kupingana na kile kilichoandika mwanzo.

Au njia nyingine tunayotumia WASOMI na kuandika mapungufu ya Kitabu au Paper ile na kuweka masahihisho yako na kumpelekea mwandishi wa Kitabu au paper ile ILI ABORESHE zaidi mle ulipoona wewe kuna mashimo. Na hizo ndio tunaita REVIEW (Marejeo).

Hizo ni njia mbili kuu tunazotumia wasomi woooote Duniya nzima katika kuboresha au kupinga maandiko ya msomi mwenzako.

Nje ya njia hizo mbili basi inakuwa ni propaganda na manung'uniko tu yasiyo na tija jamii .

Mimi naamini Mwanakijiji ambaye niahisi ni Mwaandishi wa habari (sina uhakika kama ana taaluma hiyo lakin mara nyingi namuona akiandika makala mbalimbali katika magazeti huko Tanzania kama Tz daima) anajua athari za kuona uongo na kuufumbia macho. Kwana kwa mujibu wa kazi hiyo ambayo siku zote NIA yake ni kuihabarisha jamii na Kuielimisha jamii ata kuwa hakuitendea haki jamii kama alivyodai kaona Mohamed said ameandika ndivyo sivyo basi yeye alikuwa na wajibu wa kuandika ukweli pale alipoonda yeye pamekosewa.

Kwani suala la kupata habari sahihi ni haki ya kila mtu na jamii kijumla. Na siku zote FASIHI ANDISHI inapingwa kwa FASIHI andishi na si kwa maneno.

Ameonyesha udhaifu mkubwa sana kwa jamii ambayo mara nyingi anaihabarisha na kuiilimisha kupitia katika magazeti.

Binafsi nampa pole sana.

 

[THE BIG SHOW]

Ha ha ha

hatari sana

nchi hii imefikishwa hapa ilipo na wasomi kama hawa

professor anapojibu "paper" iliyoenda shule kwa "hypothetical" data, halafu bado tunashangilia.

Professor hirji kukiri tu kuwa hizo ni "hypothetical...data..." ni kuwa amekiri kuwa data zake ni za ni kufikirika, jee na hao "four people interpreted the data." ni akina nani zaidi ya wakufikirika?

ikiwa hawa ndiyo ma professor wetu hao wanafunzi sijui wakoje?

Sasa nnaamini kabisa kuwa wanafunzi wa professor kama huyu wanakwenda kusomea ujinga.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

There is nothing resembling an opportunist in what Prof. Hirji has written. The facts are so obvious for anybody to see. We better agree not to agree on that!

You dare call "Hypothetical...Data" "The fact"?

Pity.

 

[THE BIG SHOW]

Shukran sana kwa Bayana hiyo Mkuu.

Prof Hirji, kama unafuatilia huu mnakasha somo hapa chini kiduchu.

Jan P van Bergen katika kitabu chake,-Development and Religion in Tanzania,-(1981) ametoboa siri kuhusu uadui aliokuwa nao Nyerere dhidi ya Uislamu na Waislamu.Kitabu kinaeleza kwa ufasaha jinsi Nyerere wakati alipokuwa madarakani alivyokuwa akifanya mikutano ya siri na viongozi wa Kanisa kuweka mikakati ya kuupa nguvu Ukristo.

Katika mikutano hiyo Nyerere aliwahakikishia viongozi wa Kanisa kuwa anaaunga mkono Ukristo.Kitabu hicho kinaeleza jinsi Nyerere alivyotimiza ahadi yake hiyo kwa Kanisa kwa kuhakikisha kuwa anawapa Wakristo nafasi za juu katika serikali na chama.Kitabu hiki kilikuwa kikiuzwa-Catholic Bookshop, Dar es Salaam. Lakini ilipokuja kudhihirikia Kanisa kuwa kitabu hiki kilikuwa kinatoa habari nyeti na siri za Kanisa kuhusu njama dhidi ya Waislam, kwa haraka sana kikaacha kuuzwa. Hadi hivi sasa kitabu hicho ni marufuku kuletwa tena Tanzania.Kitabu cha pili ni cha Dr John C. Sivalon,-Kanisa Katoliki na Siasa ya Tanzania Bara 1953 Hadi 1985-(1992).

Kitabu hiki kinaeleza njama ndani ya serikali kuuhujumu Uislam. Sivalon anafichua kuwa kuanzia mwaka 1961 baada ya Tanganyika kupata uhuru, Kanisa lilikuwa na hofu mbili. Hofu ya kwanza ilikuwa umoja wa madhehebu za Kiislamu kati ya Sunni, Bohora, Ismailia na Ithnasheri. Hofu ya pili ilikuwa kuhamishwa kwa makao makuu ya EAMWS kutoka Mombasa kuja Dar es Salaam. Kanisa lilikuwa linahofu kuwa mali walizokuwanazo Waasia Waislamu zikitiwa katika shughuli za Waislamu ambao walikuwa na nguvu kubwa katika uwanja wa siasa zitaathiri maslahi ya Ukatoliki katika Afrika ya Mashariki.

Kwa ajili hii Kanisa likatanganza kuwa Uislamu ni adui wake na ikaanza mikakati ya hujma dhidi ya Uislamu ili kuudhoofisha.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

why would he write something which is not there?

You call "hypothetical... data" something which is there?

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Hyo mzee karim hirji ni jembe haswaaaaa kamuumbua mzee Mohamed masaid aka hasidi

Hebu tuoneshe mstari mmoja uliomuumbuwa Mohamed Said kuliko kuja na kubwabwaja na kuhororoja bila mpango.

 

[Sibonike]

You dare call "Hypothetical...Data" "The fact"?

Pity.

The facts are not referring to the hypothetical data, rather various examples the Prof. has given. The omission of heroes is not a Tanzanian phenomenon. It seems to have affected a good number of countries.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Unataka tuwasome watu wanao taka kutumia dini ya kiislamu kuficha udhaifu wao na kutafuta utukufu? Kitwana Kondo ni mmoja wa trustees wa Morogoro Muslim University mbona chuo kinawafia mikononi? Achana na wendawazimu wako wa kuwagawa Watanzania.

Kinaitwa Muslim University of Morogoro MUM.

Chuo kinakufa? thats a wishful thinking.

Kila mwaka MUM kinatoa wanafunzi bora katika fani zao na faculty zimeongezwa unasema kinakufa? amma kweli akumulikae mchana usiku atakuchoma.

 

[authentic]

faiza foxy.

nakuelewa.

cjaona wa kukujibu.

 

[Nanren]

Wafuasi wa Mohamed Said wapo kwenye DENIAL.
Hawataki kukubali kuwa alichowaaminisha, kilikuwa well calculated ili kuhamasisha chuki ya waislam kwa wasio waislam, na kwamba simulizi zake sio "whole truth". Moh Said alikuwa na conclusions zake kwanza, halafu akatafutiza data za ku-support conclusions zake. Mtafiti yeyote anayetumia approach hii, mara nyingi, ata-ignore data ambazo haziendani na conclusions zake na hatazi-present. Unfortunately, hata baadhi ya anachoita ni data (zinazosupport mtazamo wake) ni stories za kufikirika tu.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

The facts are not referring to the hypothetical data, rather various examples the Prof. has given. The omission of heroes is not a Tanzanian phenomenon. It seems to have affected a good number of countries.

Good, so the "hypothetical...Data..." is now no longer valid.

And when, as says you, he has "...given. The omission of heroes is not a Tanzanian phenomenon" did he mention those who pointed out about about the forgotten heroes or not?

Just to remind you: Shortcomings of officially sanctioned US history are amply documented in works such as Howard Zinn, A People's History of the United States, and James W Loewen, Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong. Heroes who contributed significantly to the making of the nation are omitted or placed in a tiny footnote. Trade unionist, left wing, African American, Latino and Native American heroes in particular tend to suffer the silent treatment."

What does that mean to you? None has written about the forgotten heroes?

 

[FaizaFoxy]

hadi sasa hajajibu hoja zaidi ya kuweka malalamiko zaidi! Mara Mwembechai, mara Kitwana Kondo, namsubiri tu

Hoja ipi ya kujibiwa? Hirji ka criticize, kaulizwa maswali mawili tu, hajajibu mpaka sasa au wakala wake KVM hajajibu, kakwepa.

Mimi binafsi nimeonesha mapungufu ya maandiko ya Hirji ambayo hakuna aliyekuja na jibu, kuna mmoja tu kaja kasema hizo data kweli za kufikirika. Unajuwa hiyo maana yake nini kisomi? maana yake criticism ya Hirji yote inafaa itupwe kwenye garbage bin.

Lakini ili tuwape wengi faida na darsa, tutauendeleza mnakasha tartiiiiibu tuwape darsa, nnauhakika wengi wenu mtafaidika, maana mnaonesha kuwa wengi wenu hamko katika kiwango cha usomi wa kuweza kukabiliana na minakasha ya kisomi na hii ni fursa yenu kujipatia mawili matatu.

Professor Hirji, kwa kushindwa kuelewa tu Mau Mau na Wajerumani ni kama mbingu na ardhi na akaandika hivyo katika hizi pumba zake anaonesha kuwa ni Professor bogus (with all due respect).

Na hilo la kukiri kwake kuwa ana criticize kwa kutumia "hypothetical... data..." ndiyo kama nilivyokueleza awali, na laiti ingalikuwa kaileta hii criticism kwenye jopo la wasomi na kuna Mwenyekiti, Mwenyekiti tayari angeshamwambia "shut up, seat down and listen to other scholars".

Nawahurumia sana wanafunzi wanaofundwa na "Professor" kama huyu Hirji, hakuna zaidi bali wanajazwa ujinga tu.

 

[Mohamed Said]

Wafuasi wa Mohamed Said wapo kwenye DENIAL.
Hawataki kukubali kuwa alichowaaminisha, kilikuwa well calculated ili kuhamasisha chuki ya waislam kwa wasio waislam, na kwamba simulizi zake sio "whole truth". Moh Said alikuwa na conclusions zake kwanza, halafu akatafutiza data za ku-support conclusions zake. Mtafiti yeyote anayetumia approach hii, mara nyingi, ata-ignore data ambazo haziendani na conclusions zake na hatazi-present. Unfortunately, hata baadhi ya anachoita ni data (zinazosupport mtazamo wake) ni stories za kufikirika tu.

Nanren,
Mimi naheshimu mawazo yako kwa niliyoandika lakini usiishie hapo sogea
mbele zaidi.

Jikusanyeni muandike "ukweli."

Hebu ingia hapa:
TRACING THE FOOTSTEPS OF MWALIMU JULIUS KAMBARAGE NYERERE The Early Years in Dar es Salaam of 1950s - Mohamed Said