Barafu la Mlima Kilimanjaro lakauka, mlima mweupeee


FaizaFoxy

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Bora umenisaidia mzee, nilishawahi kumshauri jamaa asipende kudownload picha kwenye mitandao na kuzipost hapa bila uhakika, as if yeye ndio kapga picha!

tazama sasa watu wanaoishi jirani na mlima na kuuona kila siku wanambishia, yeye analazimisha kwa ushahidi wa picha ya mtandao..
daah! jamaa huyu bana..

Nway, studies zinasema hatua madhubuti zisipochukuliwa, barafu inaweza kuyeyuka yote in two decades.. So ni jukumu letu watanzania kutunza misitu na mazingira yote kwa ujumla.. Otherwise we'll all suffer the consequence..
Mara nyingi huwa namuuliza ana miaka mingapi? Maana huwa ana post picha humu ambazo hazina maana kabisa.

Mara ooh nyumba yangu, mara mke wangu, mara familia yangu nashangaa huu hajasema "mlima wangu". Ana mambo ambayo wanafanya watoto wa miaka mitano.
 
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Mara nyingi huwa namuuliza ana miaka mingapi? Maana huwa ana post picha humu ambazo hazina maana kabisa.

Mara ooh nyumba yangu, mara mke wangu, mara familia yangu nashangaa huu hajasema "mlima wangu". Ana mambo ambayo wanafanya watoto wa miaka mitano.

MziziMkavu
 
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Tazama Ramani utaona nchi nzuri ...............................mhhhhhhhhh unataka ujasiri kuuimba huu wimbo miaka hii
 
Iselamagazi

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Mara nyingi huwa
namuuliza ana miaka mingapi? Maana huwa ana post picha humu ambazo
hazina maana kabisa.

Mara ooh nyumba yangu, mara mke wangu, mara familia yangu nashangaa huu
hajasema "mlima wangu". Ana mambo ambayo wanafanya watoto wa miaka
mitano.
Ghee!
Kaaazi kweli kweli!
 
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Hapo unanilisha maneno chifu.

Ninachokisema (kwa msaada wa tafiti zilizofanyika Mlima KLM), ni kwamba, mchango wa theluji katika mfumo wa maji kwenye hiyo ikolojia ni 'almost scientifically insignificant'. Sababu zilizotolewa nimeshakwambia: theluji kubwa uisha kwa kwenda kwenye hali ya ugesi na ile ya mchango wa 'cloud forest' kutoka kwenye montane forest zone.

Mimi hadi nimekutajia mtu mwenye 'authority' katika hilo, bwana Andreas Hemp.

Sasa kama wewe una ushahidi wa mchango wa theluji katika mito, basi onyesha hapa.



If it's about acknowledging such kind of modest contribution, there is no problem with me and the scientific world.

My only problem is with this kind of statement, "Barafu ikikauka maana yake mito inayopata maji kutokana na barafu ya mlima nayo itakauka", which is completely ridiculous in the context of melting glaciers in Mt. KLM.



Ok. Here is the counter argument.

The forests of Kilimanjaro above 1300m a.s.l. receive nearly 1600 million cubic meters water annually, 95% by rainfall and ca. 5% by fog interception. About 500 million cubic meters of water (31%) percolate into the groundwater or into streams. If one assumes that fog precipitation is close to zero once the forest is destroyed, the loss of 150km2 of subalpine forests since 1976 corresponds to an estimated loss of 20 million cubic meters of fogwater deposition per year. This is more than a quarter of the estimated annual fogwater yield of the whole forest belt or equivalent to the annual water demand of the 1 million inhabitants on Kilimanjaro (according to numbers given by United Republic of Tanzania and CES, 2002). In contrast, the average annual water output of the 2.6km2 of glaciers can be estimated at only 1 million cubic meters (5%).

Cloud forests are of great importance for watersheds in East Africa (Pocs, 1976). In addition to the function of filtering and storing water, the upper montane and subalpine cloud forests have a high potential of collecting cloud water (cp. e.g. Cavelier & Goldstein, 1989; Juvik & Nullet, 1993; Cavelier et al., 1996; Bruijnzeel, 2001). Fog interception increases with altitude, and so does its contribution to water yielding. Thus, the loss of cloud forests because of climate-induced fires as well as the loss of montane forest because of clearing causes a considerable reduction and enhanced variability of water yields of the Kilimanjaro catchments, affecting over 1 million people living on the mountain, by far exceeding the hydrological consequences of the loss of the glaciers.

Compared with these landscape changes, the hydrological significance of the melting of the glaciers is almost negligible. However, the disappearance of the glaciers is an alarming indicator of the substantial changes in the Kilimanjaro environment. At current rates of incidence, fires will have made most of Kilimanjaro’s high-altitude forests extinct within the next few years, and with this, the mountain will have lost its most effective water source in the fog interception
zone. With its glaciers, Kilimanjaro will lose a part of its beauty and an important archive of paleoclimatic records (Thompson, 2000); with its forests, it loses its major ecosystem service to a water-demanding society.

Source: Hemp, 2005. Climate change-driven forest fires marginalize the impact of ice cap wasting on Kilimanjaro. Global Change Biology 11: 1013-1023.



That has been highly politicised, neglecting scientific facts about melting ice at the Arctic/Greenland and sea level rising.

What I am trying to say is, it is very true that melting ice does lead to sea level rising, but when compared to thermal expansion of ocean water as a result of increased global temperature, its contribution isn't significant.

Check out this:

One effect of global warming that everyone has heard about is a rise in sea levels. About half of this rise is due to thermal expansion: Ocean temperatures are rising, and as water warms it expands. Put a nearly full cup of water in a microwave and heat it, and the water will spill over the cup.........and of course the actual sea level would be much higher due to thermal expansion of the world’s oceans as they warm.

Source: Thompson, L. 2010. Climate change: The evidence and our options. The Behavior Analyst 33(2): 153-170.
Hujagusia kabisa the meltdown of polar ice. Umekimbia angle hiyo ya discussion.

Of course barafu ikikauka, maana yake mito inayopata maji kutokana na barafu itakauka. That is a logical tautology.

How can you argue against that?

Mambo mengine ya significance ya amount ni secondary.

Hata kama kuna kijito kimoja tu kinachopata maji kutokana na barafu - which need not be the case- kwa hao watu wanaotegemea kijito hicho that is significant enough.

The idea kwamba kuna mtu mwenye authority katika haya mambo is laughable. Usiniambie nani ana authority, niambie logic ya idea yake. Aristotle alikuwa an authority in all matters, aka deduce uongo ulioaminika kwa karibu miaka 2000. Kila mtu aliyesoma anaogopa kumpinga, kwa sababu yeye ni Aristotle, an authority. Mpaka akaja Galileo akafanya experiment na kugundua alichosema Aristotle, the authority on physics, kuhusu vitu vizito kuanguka kwa kasi zaidi in a natural state kuwa si sawa.

So don't flaunt authorities, every authority you can cite has a counter authority I can cite since the matter is now rather political. Nipe logic. Don't try to intimidate me with names and authorities.

You are missing the forest by looking at the trees.

Even though the direct contribution of snow/ ice to the rivers and rivulets is statistically insignificant, the contribution of this ice to the hydrosystem is not to be underrated.

You cannot remain with a stable ecosystem after the depletion of the ice.

And you cannot argue against a logical tautology.

That's like arguing a widow is not a woman.
 
Nzi

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Hujagusia kabisa the meltdown of polar ice. Umekimbia angle hiyo ya discussion.
Hiyo mbona ipo wazi. Na kwenye post yangu sehemu ya mwisho nimegusia. Mimi sijapinga kuyeyuka kwa theluji kule Arctic. Ila ninachokisema ni juu ya siasa za wanasiasa na wanaojifanya wataalamu, eti kwamba kuyeyuka huko kunapelekea sea level rising. Ukweli wa kisayansi ni kwamba, kwa kiwango kikubwa sana ongezeko hilo linasababishwa na litasababishwa na thermal expansion ya maji ya bahari; kwani maji yanapochemka yana-expand. Hivyo kupelekea sea level rising.
Siasa za kuyeyuka kwa theluji na sea level rising ni mbinu za kupata sympathies kutoka kwa wanadamu, ni siasa kati ya UNFCCC na IPCC.......

Of course barafu ikikauka, maana yake mito inayopata maji kutokana na barafu itakauka. That is a logical tautology. How can you argue against that? Mambo mengine ya significance ya amount ni secondary.
Chifu, nimeshakwambia katika Mlima KLM hilo suala halina logic. Sasa wewe bado unang'ang'ana nalo. Nimekupa na matokeo ya tafiti yanayodhihirisha hivyo, ila bado tu. Basi, nakuomba tena, ebu leta matokeo ya tafiti katika mlima yanayooonyesha madhara ya kuyeyuka kwa theluji hiyo kwenye mito inayozunguka ikolojia ya Mlima. Nafahamu Mto Pangani ni unategemea sana ikolojia ya mlima; sasa ebu leta ushahidi wa kuonyesha athari za kuyeyuka kwa theluji katika mito hiyo.

The idea kwamba kuna mtu mwenye authority katika haya mambo is laughable. Usiniambie nani ana authority, niambie logic ya idea yake. Aristotle alikuwa an authority in all matters, aka deduce uongo ulioaminika kwa karibu miaka 2000. Kila mtu aliyesoma anaogopa kumpinga, kwa sababu yeye ni Aristotle, an authority. Mpaka akaja Galileo akafanya experiment na kugundua alichosema Aristotle, the authority on physics, kuhusu vitu vizito kuanguka kwa kasi zaidi in a natural state kuwa si sawa.
Kumbe tunaelewana. Kwa wakati huu, huyo niliyemtaja ndiye mwenye authority, mpaka atakapotokea mtu mwingine na kusema vingine ama tofauti, basi hiyo authority ndipo itakapokoma. Mbona hilo ni jambo la kawaida katika akademia na dunia ya kiuwanazuoni!!

So don't flaunt authorities, every authority you can cite has a counter authority I can cite since the matter is now rather political. Nipe logic. Don't try to intimidate me with names and authorities.
Na nimekuomba ulete ushahidi kuonyesha tofauti na vile nimekuonyesha. Wewe ulileta ushahidi wa kwanza, mimi nikakupa counter arguments. Sasa leta counter arguments nawe......

Logic ya idea inayopatikana katika counter arguments nilizokupa, ndiyo inamfanya huyo bwana Hemp awe na authority katika hili......la sivyo kama arguments zake zingekuwa illogical hasingekuwa na authority......katika akademia, authority inapatikana kutokana na citations, sasa unapoongelea suala la kuyeyuka kwa theluji ya mlima KLM, most cited people ni hao, Professors Lonnie Thompson na Andreas Hemp.

Even though the direct contribution of snow/ ice to the rivers and rivulets is statistically insignificant, the contribution of this ice to the hydrosystem is not to be underrated. You cannot remain with a stable ecosystem after the depletion of the ice.
Bado unanilisha maneno chifu.

If you read careful what I wrote about glaciers, montane forest and hydrology in Mt. KLM, you can't write what you have written above.

I can't underrate the contribution of glaciers for the mountain's ecosystem functioning.

I did say this: melting glaciers have caused exposure of black 'dirty' surfaces at the mountain. Such surfaces absorb sun's rays, causing increased temperature within the mountain. The increased temperature has led to intesified wildfires in montane forests, leading to reduction of the forests' capacities to create 'cloud forests' that are pivotal for hydrological functions.

Therefore, without glacier melting, we couldn't see the reduction of montane forests' capacities to form 'cloud forests'.

If you do understand the logic behind, you wouldn't say that I underrate glaciers' contribution to the mountain's ecosystems.

My only problem is in your first reply to the topic, "Barafu ikikauka maana yake mito inayopata maji kutokana na barafu ya mlima nayo itakauka." Sasa nimekuomba ulete ushahidi wa mito itakayokauka kutokana na kukauka kwa barafu hapo Mlima KLM.
 
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Taswira ya Mlima Kilimanjaro inavyoonekana kwa sasa baada ya kuyeyuka Barafu yote, ikiwa imebakia sehemu kidogo tu juu ya Kilele cha Mlima huo, ni kutokana na Mabadiliko ya Tabianchi na uhalibifu wa Mazingira uliokithiri


Mkuu sio weli unachosema na Picha iliyopo hapo. Nakuheshimu sana na umekuwa msaada sana hapa jf lakini kwa hili la mlima sio kweli hata kidogo. Nina Picha za leo za mlima kilimanjaro,nimeupiga mwenyewe saa tano asubuhi nimeshindwa kuziweka hapa ila nawrza kutuma kwenye mail yako Kama utanitumia. Mlima una barafu ya kutosha, hata mlima kibo pia una barafu. Please naomba tu nipe email yako nikutumie ili Uweke hapa. Nipo hapa Omi kibosho jirani kabisa na mlima
 
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Mkuu sio weli unachosema na Picha iliyopo hapo. Nakuheshimu sana na umekuwa msaada sana hapa jf lakini kwa hili la mlima sio kweli hata kidogo. Nina Picha za leo za mlima kilimanjaro,nimeupiga mwenyewe saa tano asubuhi nimeshindwa kuziweka hapa ila nawrza kutuma kwenye mail yako Kama utanitumia. Mlima una barafu ya kutosha, hata mlima kibo pia una barafu. Please naomba tu nipe email yako nikutumie ili Uweke hapa. Nipo hapa Omi kibosho jirani kabisa na mlima
Nitumie kwenye email yangu hii hapa fewgoodman@hotmail.com




Mlima Kilimanjaro. [h=1]Mount Kilimanjaro[/h]
 
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Barafu la Mlima Kilimanjaro lakauka Mlima mweupeee.




Taswira ya Mlima Kilimanjaro inavyoonekana kwa sasa baada ya kuyeyuka Barafu yote, ikiwa imebakia sehemu kidogo tu juu ya Kilele cha Mlima huo, ni kutokana na Mabadiliko ya Tabianchi na uharibifu wa Mazingira uliokithiri. (Picha na

SUFIANIMAFOTO
).



Taswira ya mlima huo na Kilele cha Mlima Kibo.


Mlima Kilimanjaro Kushney, kama unavyoonekana ukiwa hauna Barafu huku iliyobaki ikielekea kumalizika kwa kuyeyuka. (Picha na SUFIANIMAFOTO).

Chanzo.
Barafu la Mlima Kilimanjaro lakauka Mlima mweupeee.
 
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Barafu la Mlima Kilimanjaro lakauka Mlima mweupeee.




Taswira ya Mlima Kilimanjaro inavyoonekana kwa sasa baada ya kuyeyuka Barafu yote, ikiwa imebakia sehemu kidogo tu juu ya Kilele cha Mlima huo, ni kutokana na Mabadiliko ya Tabianchi na uharibifu wa Mazingira uliokithiri. (Picha na

SUFIANIMAFOTO
).



Taswira ya mlima huo na Kilele cha Mlima Kibo.


Mlima Kilimanjaro Kushney, kama unavyoonekana ukiwa hauna Barafu huku iliyobaki ikielekea kumalizika kwa kuyeyuka. (Picha na SUFIANIMAFOTO).

Chanzo.
Barafu la Mlima Kilimanjaro lakauka Mlima mweupeee.
Huo ni mlima kilimanjaro wa wapi...kama ni huu wetu wa hapa moshi...kinyume chake ni kweli zaidi
 
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Yaani ndio ukweli wenyewe. Mto Pangani/Pangani river basin yote kutakuwa na matatizo mengi sana sababu the entire ecosystem will be affected. Watu wanadhani ni mzaha lakini itakuwa balaa mkuu
Sina hakika sana maana somo la jiografia nilisoma zamani kidogo. Ila kwa mujibu wa uelewa mdogo nilionao nadhani maji ya mito inayotokea milimani ni chemichemi, na ndio maana kuna milima isiyo na theluji lakini bado kuna mito inatokea pande hizo.
 
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Mara nyingi huwa namuuliza ana miaka mingapi? Maana huwa ana post picha humu ambazo hazina maana kabisa.

Mara ooh nyumba yangu, mara mke wangu, mara familia yangu nashangaa huu hajasema "mlima wangu". Ana mambo ambayo wanafanya watoto wa miaka mitano.
Nikafikiri huwa ananitatiza mwenyewe. Mlima Kilimanjaro umefikia hatua hiyo lini? Watu watambue kuna picha nyingine zinatengenezwa mitandaoni kuharibu sifa ya kitu, wengine bila kujua mnasambaza.
Niko huku mlima uliko, mbona mlima wetu hauna taswira hiyo?
 
Nzi

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Nzi

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Nyote mnaompinga MziziMkavu mnakosea na kusahau kitu kimoja, kwamba tafiti zimeshafanyika hapo mlimani, tena huko kileleni. Watafiti waliweka kambi kwa muda wa miaka 2 hapo kileleni, walichukua layers na layers za theluji hapo kileleni, wakazisoma na kugundua kwamba areal coverage ya theluji mlimani hapo imepungua kwa takribani asilimia 80, kutoka 12 km[SUP]2[/SUP] hadi [FONT=&amp]2.6 km[SUP]2 [/SUP][/FONT]kati ya mwaka 1912 na 2000.

Hivyo ni ukweli usiopingika sasa kwamba eneo lenye theluji katika Mlima KLM limepungua sana. Pengine inaweza ikawa siyo kama anavyoonyesha Mzizimkavu kutokana na majira ambapo picha hizo zilipigwa.
 
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Basically unacho argue hapa ni kwamba hakuna mto unaopata maji yake kutokana na theluji ya mlima Kilimanjaro.

Which is absurd however you spin it. Since this is a worldwide phenomenon that happens even in temperate climes, and even if this effect may not be as pronounced in tropical climes, due to sublimation taking primacy over melting, one would expect an acknowledgement of this modest contribution since in ecology it is not unheard of to have a tailspinning "butterfly effect".

You are tossing aside the entire notion.

http://www.ce.utexas.edu/prof/mckinney/ce397/Topics/Glaciers/Glaciers_2010.pdf

The Shrinking Glaciers of Kilimanjaro: Can Global Warming Be Blamed? » American Scientist

Whether the ice is melting or sublimating is a technical distinction without a difference in the end results, since the end result is removal of H20 from the immediate hydrology of the mountain.

As for glaciers melting causing sea levels to rise, the density of ice about is 0.9167 g/cm3 while that of water is about 1g/ cm3. That means the same cm3 would contain one gram of water as it would 0.9167 grams of ice. You can pack more H2O matter in a cm3 in the form of ice than you can pack in the form of water. That means if you have a cup filled with ice to the brim, and you let it melt into water, the cup will overflow, because there will be an increase of matter in volume by a factor of 0.0833 for every cm3.


This is rather elementary, unless you have another expert study to counter this basic fact with another distinction without a difference.

Who is shooting himself in the foot now?

Are you denying basic physics?

Melting ice a 'sleeping giant' that will push sea levels higher, scientist says

John Roach NBC News


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Dec. 13, 2013 at 3:18 PM ET


Melting ice a 'sleeping giant' that will push sea levels higher, scientist says - NBC News.com



Endelea hapa

Melting ice a 'sleeping giant' that will push sea levels higher, scientist says - NBC News.com
Hizi ndizo arguments ambazo hata pale ninapolala usiku wa manane nikizipitia hapa JF i never regret!! Mkuu your arguments hold water!! ndio maana kuyeyuka kwa mabarafu huko north pole kumepelekea visiwa kuzama. Halafu jambo lingine kwa mleta uzi barafu haikauki bali inayeyuka!!
 

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