Balozi wa Libya Tanzania akaidi kushusha bendera ya NTC!

[Keil]

Mkuu Mkandara,

Naomba niulize swali dogo: Kama unasema kwamba kinachotokea Libya leo au kwa kipindi cha miezi 6 iliyopita kinatokana na njama za nchi za Magharibi ambazo zilipanga kumwondoa Gadaffi. Swali dogo ni hili, kwanini hizo njama zisubiri kwanza wananchi wa Tunisia waandamane mpaka Rais akakubali kuondoka? Kwanini wasubiri mpaka wananchi wa Misri waandamane Tahrir Square mpaka kikaeleweka?

Ukiangalia huo mtiririko, ni kwamba mambo yalianzia Tunisia, then Misri wakaona kwamba inawezekana kabisa, nao wakafanya kweli na baada ya hapo mambo yakahamia Libya.

Ningekubaliana na hoja yako iwapo hilo swala la Libya lingetokea in isolation, lakini kwa yanayotokea hapo Afrika ya Kaskazini, naogopa kunyoosha mkono moja kwa moja kwamba ni njama za nchi za Magharibi. Nchi za Magharibi walichokifanya ni ku-take opportunity iliyojitokeza ili kuondokana na jamaa maana walishamchoka.

Ni sawa na Nyerere alivyofurahia kitendo cha Amin kujilengesha mwenyewe na mzee wa watu akasema hii ndio nafasi pekee maana tukimwacha anaweza kutuletea balaa huko mbele ya safari.

 

[Game Theory]

Sliding Roof and wote mnaotetea uamuzi wa Membe mnakosea; Membe kaingilia mambo yaliyo nje ya madaraka yake. Kama Tanzania haitambui serikali ya waasi, basi ifunge ubalozi wake na Libya, na vivyo hivyo iiarifu seerkali ya Libya (ambyo inaongozwa na hao waasi) imchukue balozi wao kutoka tanzania. Kama bado ubalozi wetu uko pale Libya na ba;lozi wa Liby yuko kwetu Tanzania, siyo jukumu letu kuamua Libya itumie bendera gani au iimbe wimbo gani wa taifa hilo. Hata umoja wa mataifa pale, nchi inaweza kubadilisha bendera yake wakati wowote, ila tu balozi anatakiwa atoe Taarifa kuhusu bendera mpya na maana ya rangi zake; angalia hapa


Sana sana kinachotakiwa kufanywa na Membe ni kuomba apewe kopi ya bendera mpya ya Libya na maana ya rangi zake kama sheria zetu za nchi zinataka iwe hivyo. Nimetafuta kitabu cha sheria za nchi yetu kuhusu mabalozi wa nchi za nje sijaziona, na kama zipo na zinalazimisha balozi apepelushe bendera ya aina fulani, ni sheria mbovu zinazoingilia mambo ya Taifa jingine.

Unfortunately your info is in adequate

what does the Vienna convention on the same subject?

 

[Mag3]

waasi wa Libya hawajasaidiwa na NATO bali wamewekwa na NATO. Kusaidiwa ni pale unapoongezewa uwezo, kuwekwa ni kupewa au kuazimwa uwezo. Hii ni sawa na myu anayetaka kununua sahani ya ubwabwa ya sh elfu mbili halafu yeye mfukoni ana shilingi mia moja akipewa shilingi elfu moja na mia tisa huyo anakuwa amenunuliwa chakula sio kusaidiwa.

ZeMarcopolo, hebu soma hii hapa chini halafu uniambie NATO walijiingiza Libya lini na kwa sababu zipi. Wakati Gadafi anawaita Wapinzani wake wavuta bangi na walevi wa dawa za kulevya, NATO uliwasikia ?

The protests, unrest and confrontations began in earnest on 15 February 2011. On the evening of 15 February, between 500 and 600 demonstrators protested in front of Benghazi's police headquarters after the arrest of human rights lawyer Fathi Terbil. The protest was broken up violently by police, resulting in clashes in which 38 people were injured, among them ten security personnel. The novelist Idris Al-Mesmari was arrested hours after giving an interview with Al Jazeera about the police reaction to protests. In Al Bayda and Az Zintan, hundreds of protesters in each town called for an end of the Gaddafi regime and set fire to police and security buildings. In Az Zintan, the protesters set up tents in the town centre. The armed protests continued the following day in Benghazi, Darnah and Al Bayda. Libyan security forces allegedly responded with lethal force. Hundreds gathered at Maydan al-Shajara in Benghazi, and authorities tried to disperse protesters with water cannons.

A "Day of Rage" in Libya and by Libyans in exile was planned for 17 February. The National Conference for the Libyan Opposition asked that all groups opposed to the Gaddafi regime protest on 17 February, in memory of demonstrations in Benghazi five years earlier. The plans to protest were inspired by the Tunisian and Egyptian revolution. Protests took place in Benghazi, Ajdabiya, Darnah, Az Zintan, and Al Bayda. Libyan security forces fired live ammunition into the armed protests. Protesters torched a number of government buildings, including a police station. In Tripoli, protesters managed to burn security buildings and the People's Hall. On February 18, police and army personnel later withdrew from Benghazi after being overwhelmed by protesters. Some army personnel also joined the protesters; they then seized the local radio station. In Al Bayda, unconfirmed reports indicated that the local police force and riot-control units joined the protesters.
On February 19, witnesses in Libya reported helicopters firing into crowds of anti-government protesters. The army withdrew from the city of Al Bayda.

ZeMarcopolo, hii historia ni ya juzi tu hata mwaka haujapita leo tayari unaukataa ukweli ! Eti waasi waliwekwa na NATO ! Acha uwongo.

 

[EMT]

Kinachomlinda Mheshimiwa Membe ni hiki hapa

1963 Vienna convention on consular relations

Article 29...

Soma page PAGE 12 & 13 ya hiyo document niliyo attach

Use of national flag and coat-of-arms

​

1.The sending State shall have the right to the use of its national flag and coat-of-arms in the
receiving State in accordance with the provisions of this article.
2.The national flag of the sending State may be flown and its coat-of-arms displayed on the
building occupied by the consular post and at the entrance door thereof, on the residence of the head of
the consular post and on his means of transport when used on official business.
3. In the exercise of the right accorded by this article regard shall be had to the laws, regulations
and usages of the receiving State.

You have cited a wrong law. You are referring to the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations 1963 and not the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961. The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations 1963 applies Diplomatic Consulars while the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961 applies to Embassies and High Commissions. You are referring to the wrong Convention because there is no Libyan Consulate in Tanzania but a Libyan Embassy. Effectively, hiyo Convention haiwezi kumlinda Membe because he was not dealing with a flag issue at Libyan Consulate but at a Libyan Embassy. Do your homework properly sir.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

ZeMarcopolo, hii historia ni ya juzi tu hata mwaka haujapita leo tayari unaukataa ukweli ! Eti waasi waliwekwa na NATO ! Acha uwongo.

this is the part I don't understand. Watu tumeona wananchi wa Arusha wameuawa mikononi mwa vyombo vya dola; tumeona yametokea Nyamongo. Sasa siku moja wakiamua kufanya kweli na wakaandamana na kumuondoa mkuu wa mkoa au Polisi watu watasema wanafadhiliwa na Wamarekani! Hapo Dar itakuja kutokea siku moja watu wafe mikononi mwa POlisi au jeshi na watu wakaanza kufanya vurugu na kama kawaida utasikia - na kama mnakumbuka imeshaidiwa - "wanafadhiliwa na nchi za kigeni". Really? Hivi hawa watu wanaowapinga watawala hawajui kuwa wanatumiwa na nchi nyingine?

Hivi ni wakati gani mwananchi anaweza kuipinga serikali yake bila kuonekana anatumiwa na watu wengine? Kweli kabisa tunaamini kuwa wale wote waliokuwa wanapigana LIbya wamewekwa na "nchi za Magharibi" wakaambiwa wawe tayari kuuawa? Really? Hivi na sisi tulipodai uhuru toka kwa Waingereza ni kwa sababu Wamarekani walikuwa wanatuunga mkono au Waingereza? Au tulihitaji baraka zao kujua kuwa hatukuwa tunatawaliwa kwa utu wetu kama wanadamu?

Kwanini hatuamini kuwa wananchi wa Libya walikuwa na manung'uniko ya muda mrefu na utawala wa Gaddafi na wakati muafaka ulipojitokeza kama ilivyotokea Tunisia na Misri wakaamua kutumia nafasi hiyo? Au tuseme hata wale wanaoandamana Syria wanatumia na Israeli? au walioandamana Tunisia na kumkimbia Ben Ali nao walikuwa ni maajenti wa nchi za Magharibi? Au tuamini kuwa maelfu ya wale waliogoma kuondoka Tahrir Square walikuwa ni wamarekani na Waingereza waliojificha kama Wamisri?

Basi tuonesheni hata mmoja wa hao viongozi wa NTC ambaye siyo mwananchi wa LIbya au hata wapiganaji wa NTC ambao si Walibya.. labda hapo tunaweza kuanzia kusema kuwa tumeona wazungu wakipigana kumuondoa Gaddafi.. hiyo air power haikufanywa na NATO peke yake. Nchi za Kiarabu zimeshiriki lakini hizi hazitajwi.. of course I know.. ni "vibaraka wa nchi za Magharibi!"..

 

[EMT]

kinachomaanishwa hapo ni kwamba mchakato wa kujua ni nani ataiongozi Libya bado haujaisha. Kwa kiasi kikubwa tunafahamu kuwa hatakuwa Ghadafi, ila hakuna anayefahamu ni aina gani ya utawala utafuata na utakuja lini. nchi za magharibi zinawatambua NTC kwa sababu wao (NATO) ndio walioanzisha vita in the firts place, Kwahiyo inakuwa kama vile wanajitambua wenyewe.

Rwanda, Sudan, nk ni nchi za magharibi ya wapi? Au na zenyewe ni part ya NATO?

 

[Game Theory]

You have cited a wrong law. You are referring to the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations 1963 and not the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961. The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations 1963 applies Diplomatic Consulars while the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961 applies to Embassies and High Commissions. You are referring to the wrong Convention because there is no Libyan Consulate in Tanzania but a Libyan Embassy. Effectively, hiyo Convention haiwezi kumlinda Membe because he was not dealing with a flag issue at Libyan Consulate but at a Libyan Embassy. Do your homework properly sir.

the problem is Libya (at least till last week ) used missions or the name people's bureau and the head of the mission is a secretary.
Assah Mwambene should have clarified this on Foreign website

 

[Game Theory]

You have cited a wrong law. You are referring to the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations 1963 and not the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961. The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations 1963 applies Diplomatic Consulars while the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961 applies to Embassies and High Commissions. You are referring to the wrong Convention because there is no Libyan Consulate in Tanzania but a Libyan Embassy. Effectively, hiyo Convention haiwezi kumlinda Membe because he was not dealing with a flag issue at Libyan Consulate but at a Libyan Embassy. Do your homework properly sir.

Sawa.. sheria zetu na regulations zetu and usages zinasemaje ili tujue kuwa Membe yuko sahihi. Hilo la kwanza; la pili kwanini unaangalia mkataba wa consular relations na siyo wa diplomatic relations wa 1961? Maana nafikiri Tanzania na Libya ni zaidi ya consular relations ni diplomatic relations. Niko tayari kusahihishwa.

Kwani, Mkataba huo unasema hivi:



Wakati ule wa Diplomatic relations unasema:



Sasa huyo aliyeitwa na Membe ni Consular au ni Head of Mission (Balozi) wa Libya kama ilivyoripotiwa? Kama ni balozi mkataba ulioutaja hauna nafasi wala hauhusiki bali ule wa diplomatic relations ambao kuhusu bendera una hili tu la kusema:

The mission and its head shall have the right to use the flag and emblem of the sending State on
the premises of the mission, including the residence of the head of the mission, and on his means of
transport. Article 20

Mmoja wetu hawezi kuwa sahihi katika hili. Na naomba kupendekeza kuwa siyo mimi.

mimi naona hii ngoma ikae recess kwanza mpaka kesho tukimpata Assah aua wtakao kuwa tayari kutoa ufafanuzi then tuendelee

otherwise mtaigeuza thread kuwa kama zile za ngonjera za CCM vs CHADEMA

 

[RAJ PATEL JR]

Tanzanian government is still in denial

 

[ZeMarcopolo]

ZeMarcopolo, hebu soma hii hapa chini halafu uniambie NATO walijiingiza Libya lini na kwa sababu zipi. Wakati Gadafi anawaita Wapinzani wake wavuta bangi na walevi wa dawa za kulevya, NATO uliwasikia ?


ZeMarcopolo, hii historia ni ya juzi tu hata mwaka haujapita leo tayari unaukataa ukweli ! Eti waasi waliwekwa na NATO ! Acha uwongo.

Hao uliowaandika hapa ni waandamanaji. Mimi nazungumzia waasi. Waandamanaji hawawezi kuwa na silaha na pick up vehicle zote zimefanana rangi, wamezitoa wapi?

Kama ishu ni waandamanaji, mbona UK kulikuwa na waandamanaji kibao tu juzijuzi tu. Je, tulipaswa kuwapa silaha wale waandamanaji?

 

[ZeMarcopolo]

Rwanda, Sudan, nk ni nchi za magharibi ya wapi? Au na zenyewe ni part ya NATO?

EMT I am sorry ila sijui unatumia logic ya aina gani katika kutengeneza argument zako. Hivi unavyotaka Tanzania iwatambue NTC unataka Tanzania iwe nchi ya magharibi?

Sio kila nchi inayotambua NTC ni nchi ya magharibi ila ukweli usiopingika ni kwamba nchi za magharibi ndio zinaamua momentum iwe upande gani. Rwanda, Sudan etc wamefuata momentum.

 

[EMT]

waasi wa Libya hawajasaidiwa na NATO bali wamewekwa na NATO. Kusaidiwa ni pale unapoongezewa uwezo, kuwekwa ni kupewa au kuazimwa uwezo. Hii ni sawa na myu anayetaka kununua sahani ya ubwabwa ya sh elfu mbili halafu yeye mfukoni ana shilingi mia moja akipewa shilingi elfu moja na mia tisa huyo anakuwa amenunuliwa chakula sio kusaidiwa.

Ishu ya Vita ya Uganda umeiingiza vipi? Uganda ilipigana vita na Tanzania both in Tanzanian soil and in Ugandan soil, sasa sielewi huu mfano unafanana vipi na ishu ya LLibya. kuna bomu lolote lilirushwa kwenda kwenye nchi yoyote ya NATO?

Kuhusu kumake deals, acha kudanganyika. Unadhani kenya imamake deal gani kwa kuwatambua waasi? deal zote zitaratibiwa na Ufaransa, Uingereza, Italy na USA. Hata kama mngetaka serikali ya tanzania iwatambue waasi tangu awali usidhani kuna deal yoyote tungepata. kwa hiyo kama tamaa yako ni kutambua tu yeyote yule ili tuweze kufanya deal za wizi kama za watu wa magharibi basi you are very wrong; vyumba vilijaa kabla hata giza halijaingia. Kumbuka kuwa budget ya waasi awali ilikuwa ni USD 80mil kwa siku.Vita inapiganwa kwa zaidi ya miezi sita sasa, pesa hizo zimetoka mahali na zitarudi huko. Au ulitaka Tanzania i invest kwenye kuwasupport waasi?

Well, whether kuwekwa au kusaidiwa isinge change position ya sisi kutotambua NTC. Sidhani kama hatuitambui NTC kwa sababu haikusaidiwa bali imewekwa NATO. At least Membe angesema hatuitambui NTC kwa sababu imewekwa na NATO. Yeye anasema ni kwa sababu bado hawajaunda serikali regardless of whether or not wamewekwa na NATO.

Mfano wa Uganda nimeuweka kwa sababu sio tuu tulipigana na Uganda kwa sababu ya kutuvamia bali pia tuliwawekea na serikali mpya kwa sababu kama alivyosema Nyerere mwenyewe nia tulikuwa nayo, uwezo tulikuwa nao na nguvu tulikuwa nazo. Tulichokuwa tunahitaji ni sababu tuu kama walivyokuwa NATO.

Nani kakwambia deals zote zitaratibiwa na Ufaransa, Uingereza, Italy na USA. Wale Wachina kule Benghazi wana negotiate nini? Au nao NATO? Tanzania ina bilateral economic agreements and cooperation na Libya. Badala ya ku stick kwenye old politics tunge hakikisha kuwa our economic interests and cooperation na iliyokuwa serikali ya Gaddafi zitaheshimiwa na kulindwa na serikali mpya. Effects za kuanza kuingiza siasa za kizamani hatutaziona sasa. Hii imetokea pia Sudan ya Kusini. Wakati wako kwenye process ya kujitenga wenzetu Kenya na Rwanda rush in to trash out economic deals wakati sie tikiwa tumezubaa tuu.

Pia tukumbuke kuna Watanzania kule Libya. Na kuna taarifa kuwa watu wanakuwa victims. Sasa rebels wakijua Tanzania sio tuu hatuwatambui bali pia tumekataa bendera mpya na kung'ang'ania ya Gaddafi, wakikutana na mbongo watamfanyaje? Au kabla ya kusema haya Membe alikuwa amesha evacuate Watanzania wote Libya? Bado siamini wanaotambua NTC ni dumb na sisi tusiowatambua ni very smart. Time will tell.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

My final word hapa:

a. Tanzania itaitambua NTC bila NTC kubadilika - yaani haitaitambua kwa sababu ati imeapishwa au kuwa na mihimili mitatu - itaitambua kwa sababu kutoitambua kutakuwa siyo dili tena.

b. Tanzania kama nchi imepoteza mvuto na ushawishi wake wa kidiplomasia katika nchi za Kiafrika. Zamani watu walijali Tanzania inasema nini sasa no one really care much kwa sababu ukishavunja kanuni, kanuni nayo itakuvunja. Nawashauri watu wasome hotuba ya KANUNI NNE (Four Principles) ambayo Baba wa Taifa Mw. J. K. Nyerere aliitoa UN tarehe 14 Disemba, 1961 ikiwa ni hotuba yake ya kwanza kama kiongozi wa Tanganyika huru. Katika hotuba hii Nyerere alianisha kanuni nne za kuliongoza taifa hiili katika mahusiano yake ya ndani na hata nje. Kina Membe watajitendea wema kama watachukua muda kuisoma ili wajue kama Tanzania bado inaongozwa na kanuni zile au la.

c. Ipo haja ya haraka sana kwa Tanzania kuarticulate new and comprehensive foreign policy ambayo inaeleweka kwa wananchi wake. The current policy of 'DIPLOMATIC AMBIGUITY' haina msingi kwani haiko katika msingi unaoelekewa wa falsafa ya nchi. Kama tunaongozwa na falsafa fulani basi ijulikane ni ipi - kama turudie the Four Principles basi turudie ili Watanzani wasiwe wana shuku. Hizo tunazoziita nchi za Magharibi zinazo policies zao ambao wengi wamezigusia hapa linapokuja suala la Libya, sisi tulikuwa na policies zetu kwa muda mrefu na nchi za Magharibi hazikuwa na shaka Tanzania ingekuwa wapi lakini leo hilo a. litakapotokea ndio mtajua alichofanya Kikwete kwenye suala la Libya ni detrimental to our international stature.

d. Mjadala huu umefumbua mambo mengi ambayo naamini watawala wetu wanaweza kutumia kujiuliza na kutafakari na umekuwa wa kiungwana sana kulinganisha na mijadala mingi ya siku za karibuni, thanks to everyone na hasa kwa SF ambaye najua interests yake kwenye FA imetusaidia kujiuliza hata maswali ambayo hatukuwa tumejiuliza kwa muda mrefu hasa nikirejea mtazamo wake kuhusu Membe, the Comoro issue na hata sasa hili la Libya.


Pande hizi mbili ambazo tumejadiliana humu nina uhakika zinawakilishwa vyema katika maamuzi ya serikali yetu kwani nako kutakuwepo watu wenye mawazo kama haya na ninaamini hoja zitakapopimwa vizuri na kuangaliwa vizuri hoja zetu sisi wengine ziko sahihi kwa kiasi kikubwa na zitakuwa vindicated. Hata hivyo, katika ulimwengu wa siasa na diplomasia za duniani neno kuwa "sahihi" lina maana ya sekunde chache tu kwani katika kubadilika badilika kwa watu, matukio na hali mtu yeyote anawezakuwa sahihi wakati wowote.

MMM

 

[August]

hivi ni bendera gani ya libya inayo pepea UN kwa sasa? ya Ghadafi au ya NTC? kama ni ya NTC si tanzania ni nani kuwaacha nchi huru kutumia wanacho kiona kina faa? au ndio bendera ufuata upepo?

 

[EMT]

mimi naona hii ngoma ikae recess kwanza mpaka kesho tukimpata Assah aua wtakao kuwa tayari kutoa ufafanuzi then tuendelee otherwise mtaigeuza thread kuwa kama zile za ngonjera za CCM vs CHADEMA

Wewe mwenyewe ndio umewaambia akina Mbopo wakae pembeni kwa vile unaelewa sheria. Tukakudai uweke sheria, ulichofanya umeweka wrong law. Tunapojaribu kukusahihisha unaleta mambo ya siasa. Hakuna cha CCM vs Chadema hapa. Tupo hapa kitaifa zaidi. Kwamba kuna implications gani kwa nchi yetu kuitambua au kutoitambua NTC. You cited a wrong law and it is right for you to be corrected. Au huitaji kuelimishwa? Imagine ulikuwa unamtetea Membe mahakamani halafu u-cite hiyo Convention ya mwaka 1963, badala ya ile ya mwaka 1961, ungeshinda kesi?

Mkuu hatuko hapa si kubishana tuu bali kuelimisha pia. Myself najifunza mengi kwenye posts za wachangiaji. Kama tutaacha kukosoana kama tunavyofanya au kuwaambia wengine wakae pembeni kwa vile sisi tunajua zaidi, tunaweza ku misled sio sisi wenyewe tuu bali pia members of the public wanaopitia hapa jamvini kujielimisha. Naheshimu michango ya wachangiaji wote lakini kama mtu amekosea naona ni right kumwelewesha au kumkosoa. Na mimi napenda kuelimishwa na kukosolewa pia.

Respect Mkuu.

 

[EMT]

sasa umeona kwa nini nilianzisha hizi threads:
https://www.jamiiforums.com/habari-na-hoja-mchanganyiko/120080-ministry-of-farce-affairs-aka-foreign-afairs.html
https://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la-siasa/168403-balozi-wa-libya-tanzania-akaidi-kushusha-bendera-ya-ntc-5.html#post2429323

Mkuu kumbe una ID nyingi eh?

 

[Kichuguu]

Unfortunately your info is in adequate

what does the Vienna convention on the same subject?

Unaisoma hiyo Vienna Convention vibaya. Kwa kifupi convention hiyo inasema kuwa Ubalozi unaruhusiwa kutumia alama za Taifa lao kama vile bendera, na nembo kulingana na sheria za nchi host; haitoi mamlaka kwa nchi host kuamua ni bendera ipi itumiwe na ubalozi.

Swala la sheria za nchi host, ni kutokana na kuwa nchi nyingi zina sheria ya bendera. Kwa mfano ukiwa Marekani huruhusiwi kuweka bendera ya Marekani kwenye mlingoti mfupi halafu bendera ya nchi nyingine ikawa katika mlingoti mrefu. Vile vile nchi nyingine zina sheria za bendera kurushwa nusu mlingoti katika siku za kukumbukia matukio fulani; na shrai hizo zinasema bendera zote zitarushwa nusu mlingoti, kwa hiyo chini ya sheria za namna hiyo ubalozi nao utatakiwa kurusha bendera zao nusu mlingoti kulingana na sheria za nchi host hizo.

 

[Nyambala]

Wakuu wala msijihangaishe na kauli, matamko ya Membe na hata JK, kinachowasumbua hao ni kale kaugonjwa ketu ka "KUSIKIZLIZIA" wanachofanya wanasubiri waone upepo unaendaje halafu mtawasikia watakapokuja na matamko yenye excuses na justifications kibao!!!!!!!!!!! Good debate though!!!!!!!!!!!

Pia nna kamchango kangu kuhusu mwanzo wa hiyo rebellion logically nadhani ni makosa kuifananisha say Moshi, Arusha ikifanya rebellion in Tz (about 10% of 42Mn, sauti ni sauti though) . Eneo lililofanya rebellion ya mwanzo kabisa idadi ya watu waishio huko ni zaidi ya nusu ya Libya. Benghazi pekee ina 25% ya wakazi wa nchi yote ya Libya if it is the numbers that matters anyways.

 

[Mkandara]

Sliding Roof and wote mnaotetea uamuzi wa Membe mnakosea; Membe kaingilia mambo yaliyo nje ya madaraka yake. Kama Tanzania haitambui serikali ya waasi, basi ifunge ubalozi wake na Libya, na vivyo hivyo iiarifu seerkali ya Libya (ambyo inaongozwa na hao waasi) imchukue balozi wao kutoka tanzania. Kama bado ubalozi wetu uko pale Libya na ba;lozi wa Liby yuko kwetu Tanzania, siyo jukumu letu kuamua Libya itumie bendera gani au iimbe wimbo gani wa taifa hilo. Hata umoja wa mataifa pale, nchi inaweza kubadilisha bendera yake wakati wowote, ila tu balozi anatakiwa atoe Taarifa kuhusu bendera mpya na maana ya rangi zake; angalia hapa


Sana sana kinachotakiwa kufanywa na Membe ni kuomba apewe kopi ya bendera mpya ya Libya na maana ya rangi zake kama sheria zetu za nchi zinataka iwe hivyo. Nimetafuta kitabu cha sheria za nchi yetu kuhusu mabalozi wa nchi za nje sijaziona, na kama zipo na zinalazimisha balozi apepelushe bendera ya aina fulani, ni sheria mbovu zinazoingilia mambo ya Taifa jingine.

Mkuu wangu hapana mimi sintakubaliana nawe unless unambie hiyo serikali ya waasi ni ipi? Jamani huyu kiongozi ni wa muda kuandaa transition kutokana na pendekezo la NATO ambao wanaitaka UN isimamie kuundwa kwa Libya mpya na hata kuandikwa kwa constitution mpya. Mkuu hili ni baraza la mpito na sii serikali, sasa utalitambua vipi baraza la mpito ambalo halina hata constitution ya nchi, haijatambuliwa wala kujulishwa rasmi UN leo wanakuja na bendera yao tofauti na ile ilolitambua taifa la Libya tuitambue tu kwa sababu tumeagizwa. Je, mnakumbuka Iraq pia Marekani walikuja na bendera mpya lakini Wairaq wenyewe walikuja ikataa na kurudishwa ya zamani?..Hivi kweli tupo radhi kuvunja Convention zetu kwa sababu tunaambiwa na nchi za magharibi kuitambua serikali ambayo haipo!

Na katika kumjibu Keil, nadhani hukumbuki kilichotangulia na mjadala huu hatukuuanza jana hapa JF isipokuwa yaonyesha watu mnakwenda na matukio na kusahau tulikotoka. Naona watu wanaweza maandamano ya watu 500 kuthibitisha kwamba Libya nao walikuwa ktk jitihada za kumwondoa Ghadafi kwa sababu ati Tunisia na Misri wamefanya hivyo ili hali wanaziona tofauti zilizopo. Kwa hiyo unataka kunambia hata Chadema walipoandamana Kanda ya ziwa na Arusha walikuwa na lengo la kumwondoa JK madarakani?.. maanake huko kulikuwa na watu wengi kuliko hata Bengazi..

Hivi kwa kufikiri kwenu ni nchi ngapi za Kiafrika zingependa leo kuwaondoa viongozi wake? Tanzania kwa mfano tuna kila sababu ya kuwaondoa CCM lakini mbona hatufuati mfano wa Tunisia na Misri? Na hivi kweli mnafumba macho mnapoona hao wananchi wakiwa na vifaa vya kijeshi,wamevalia makombati, vifaru na machineguns juu ya magari yao na kuwaita wananchi ili hali watu hawa wako vitani!. Ni kitu gani kinawatenganisha hawa na wanajeshi wengine?
Kisha why Libya imekuwa big deal kwetu kuitambua wakati sijamsikia mtu akizungumzia serikali ya Tunisia, Misri na hata Somalia lini tumetangaza ama kupiga kelele kuzitambua serikali zao. Mbona katika haya hatukushadidia kiasi hicho au sisi wananchi some of us have special interest in Libya!

Ghadafi is gone tena for good mnataharuki na kipi haswa!..Huyo balozi wa Libya anatetea maslahi yake na kesho kama Ghadafi akirudi madarakani atarusha tena bendera ya Ghadafi wote hawa ni watetezi wa ajira zao na anachokifanya ni kupepeta unga wake. Kuweni na subira iundwe serikali then mtanambia kwa nini Membe hajaitambua serikali ya Libya kinyume cha hapo kulitambua baraza la mpito ni kukiuka kanuni tulizoziweka sisi wenyewe. Na sii vizuri kabisa kuzungumzia sovereignity ya Libya ambayo kanuni za kimataifa haziruhusu nchi yeyote kuvamia nchi hiyo hali huko Libya, NATO wameivunja sheria kwa visingizio ambavyo vinajionesha wazi, Yemen, Syria, Bahrain, Uganda, Tanzania (Zanzibar), Zimbabwe, Kenya - U name it lakini huko wanasema kanuni haziwaruhusu..

 

[Kichuguu]

Mkuu wangu hapana mimi sintakubaliana nawe unless unambie hiyo serikali ya waasi ni ipi? Jamani huyu kiongozi ni wa muda kuandaa transition kutokana na pendekezo la NATO ambao wanaitaka UN isimamie kuundwa kwa Libya mpya na hata kuandikwa kwa constitution mpya. Mkuu hili ni baraza la mpito na sii serikali, sasa utalitambua vipi baraza la mpito ambalo halina hata constitution ya nchi.. Hivi kweli tupo radhi kuvunja Convention zetu kwa sababu tunaambiwa na nchi za magharibi kuitambua serikali ambayo haipo!

Na katika kumjibu Keil, nadhani hukumbuki kilichotangulia na mjadala huu hatukuuanza jana hapa JF isipokuwa yaonyesha watu mnakwenda na matukio na kusahau tulikotoka. Naona watu wanaweza maandamano ya watu 500 kuthibitisha kwamba Libya nao walikuwa ktk jitihada za kumwondoa Ghadafi kwa sababu ati Tunisia na Misri wamefanya hivyo ili hali wanaziona tofauti zilizopo. Kwa hiyo unataka kunambia hata Chadema walipoandamana Kanda ya ziwa na Arusha walikuwa na lengo la kumwondoa JK madarakani?.. maanake huko kulikuwa na watu wengi kuliko hata Bengazi..
Hivi kwa kufikiri kwenu ni nchi ngapi za Kiafrika zingependa leo kuwaondoa viongozi wake? Tanzania kwa mfano tuna kila sababu ya kuwaondoa CCM lakini mbona hatufuati mfano wa Tunisia na Misri? Na hivi kweli mnafumba macho mnapoona hao wananchi wakiwa na vifaa vya kijeshi na machinegus juu ya magari yao na kuwaita wananchi ili hali wako vitani!..
Kisha why Libya imekuwa big deal kwetu kuitambua wakati sijamsikia mtu akizungumzia serikali ya Tunisia, Misri na hata Somalia lini tumetangaza ama kupiga kelele kuzitambua serikali zao. Mbona katika haya hatukushadidia kiasi hicho au sisi wananchi have special interest in Libya!

Huyo balozi wa Libya anatetea maslahi yake na kesho kama Ghadafi akirudi madarakani atarusha tena bendera ya Ghadafi wote hawa ni watetezi wa serikali ya Gadhafi na anachokifanya ni kupepeta unga wake. Kuweni na subira iundwe serikali then mtanambia kwa nini Membe hajaitambua serikali ya Libya kinyume cha hapo kulitambua baraza la mpito ni kukiuka kanuni tulizoziweka sisi wenyewe. Na sii vizuri kabisa kuzungumzia sovereignity ya Libya ambayo kanuni za kimataifa haziruhusu nchi yeyote kuvamia nchi hiyo hali huko Libya, NATO wameivunja sheria kwa visingizio ambavyo vinajionesha wazi, Yemen, Syria, Bahrain, Uganda, Tanzania (Zanzibar), Zimbabwe, Kenya - U name it..

Kaka Mkandara,

Hata kama Balozi huyo anatetea maslahi yake:

(a) Hajavunja sheria yoyote ya Tanzania
(b) Hajakiuka sharti lolote ya kibalozi.

Kwa hiyo Membe hawezi kumchagulia balozi huyo bendera ya kupeperusha ofisni kwake. Je Membe anajuaje bendera halali ya Libya kama siyo kutoka kwa balozi huyo huyo? Ni jambo la kawaida kwa nchi kubadilisha bendera zao; hata Libya kabla ya Ghadaffi walikuwa na bendera nyingine tuliyokuwa tunatambua kulingana na taarifa tulizoletewa na ubalozi wao, halafu baada ya Ghaddafi kupindua utawala uliokuwepo kwa nguvu akaleta bendera mpya ambayo pia tuliitambua kutokana na taarifa za ubalozi wao, kwa hiyo hata baada ya Ghadaffi kupinduliwa kwa nguvu itabidi tukubali bendera mpya tutakayoletewa na balozi wao.

Kuhusu uhalali wa waasi wa Libya siyo swala la Membe kusema kama ni halali au la, bali inabid yeye asikilize kutoka kwa balozi wa Libya aliyeko hapa nchini kihalali. Inawezekana kabisa kuwa hao waasi ni kikundi kidogo tu, lakini kidiplomasia, mawasiliano kati ya Tanzania na Libya yanapitia kwa mabalozi siyo kwenye vyombo vya habari, kwa yeye afuate taarifa za kutoka kwa balozi tu, si vinginevyo..



Mkandara:

Niongeze kidogo kwenye paragraph yako ya mwisho kuwa Tanzania tulikuwa na ubalozi wa Palestina tangu miaka ya sabini ingawa taifa la Palestina halikuwapo na wala hakukuwa na serikali ya Palestina