51% ya wabunge wa JMT hawana shahada [Degree]

[Kiranga]

kwamba jamii zetu kwa kiasi kikubwa zina watu ambao hawakupata bahati ya kwenda shule vizuri; lakini wamekuwa wanachagua viongozi wenye elimu watatua matatizo yao; lakini viongozi hawa wamekuwa wanawaangusha; hivyo bora wajirudi na kuchagua viongozi wanaofanana nao kielimu, na kwa pamoja pengine watafanikiwa kujiletea maendeleo; it can definately work, but i don't believe in that school of thought;

That is far from my meaning.

My meaning is simple.

Do not equate "education" with "degree".

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Do not equate "education" with "degree".

What about degree with leadership ability?

 

[Gaijin]

Huu ni mjadala tofauti sasa; kuwa na tatizo hilo ni kutokana na factors nyingi ambazo hatujazijadili kwani kuna both endogenous and exogenous factors on why tunakabiliwa na janga hili; lakini bado it doesnt disqualify umuhimu wa elimu miongoni mwa both, wanaoongoza na wanaoongozwa; dunia ya sasa is too complex kukabiliana nayokwa mwendo uliokuwa otherwise; viongozi wachache ambao uwezo wao kuongoza hauendani na ukubwa wao wa elimu wasituvuruge tukadhani kwamba tutaweza kusonga mbele bila ya elimu miongoni mwa wanao ongoza na wanaoongozwa, hasa wale wanao ongoza, ili mradi wawe na elimu relevant kutatua matatizo ya jamii zao, lakini muhimu zaidi, uwezo wa kutumia kikamilifu elimu hizo na pia uzalendo kwa taifa lao;

Hakuna anaepinga umuhimu wa elimu kwa wote; wanaoongozwa na wanaoongoza.

Tunachoangalia hapa jee ku-base kwenye shahada hakuwaondolei fursa japo wale wachache wanaokwenda kinyume na kinachoonekana kwenye takwimu?

Viongozi wenye shahada wakifanya vyema mno kuliko wasiokuwa na shahada, wananchi naturally wataanza kuchagua wenye shahada, na akitokea asiyekuwa na shahada lakini akaonyesha potential ya kufanya vyema bado atakuwa na fursa ya kuchaguliwa na hivyo kuongoza.

Ku-base kwenye shahada kuna maanisha kuwa kuna kundi la watu ambalo tunalinyima fursa ya kuongoza ingawa wana uwezo kwa vile tu uwezo wao huo hauwezi kuonyeshwa kwa cheti cha chuo kikuu.

Si sawa wala haki

 

[Mchambuzi]

Huyu hana shahada ya chuo kikuu

Una mifano mingi sana mizuri kuhusu nchi za wenzetu lakini unasahau kwamba kama vile signature yako inavyosema, "CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING"

 

[Kiranga]

Unajua kiranga, elimu sio kigezo peke yake cha kutengeneza mazingira yenye utawala bora; tatizo unalolizungumza ni kweli lipo, lakini wengi humu tunakuwa hatuelewani kwasababu hatujapanua mjadala zaidi; ningeshauri sasa tuanze kuangalia endogenous and exogenous factors zinazopelekea uwepo wa tatizo hili miongoni mwa viongozi wenye elimu, lakini while we hold constant umuhimu wa elimu miongoni mwa viongozi katika kutatua matatizo ndani ya jamii wanazoziongoza;

Kwamba elimu ni muhimu halina mjadala.

Mjadala upo katika swala lingine.

Je, elimu ni nini?

Ni mi degree?

Wanaotaka kuweka sharti la degree wanasema elimu ni degree.

Mimi nakataa, naona kwamba elimu ni pana zaidi ya degree, na kwamba ingawa elimu na degree vinaweza kwenda pamoja, si lazima, na mara nyingine hukinzana.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Hakuna anaepinga umuhimu wa elimu kwa wote; wanaoongozwa na wanaoongoza.

Tunachoangalia hapa jee ku-base kwenye shahada hakuwaondolei fursa japo wale wachache wanaokwenda kinyume na kinachoonekana kwenye takwimu?

Viongozi wenye shahada wakifanya vyema mno kuliko wasiokuwa na shahada, wananchi naturally wataanza kuchagua wenye shahada, na akitokea asiyekuwa na shahada lakini akaonyesha potential ya kufanya vyema bado atakuwa na fursa ya kuchaguliwa na hivyo kuongoza.

Ku-base kwenye shahada kuna maanisha kuwa kuna kundi la watu ambalo tunalinyima fursa ya kuongoza ingawa wana uwezo kwa vile tu uwezo wao huo hauwezi kuonyeshwa kwa cheti cha chuo kikuu.

Si sawa wala haki

hapo nimekusoma, tupo pamoja.

 

[Kiranga]

What about degree with leadership ability?

Kama degree ingekuwa sawa na leadership ability Tanzania isingekuwa katika leadership crisis sasa hivi.

Wala matatizo ya kiuchumi.

Si tuna rais (rahisi?) graduate wa UDSM, tena kagraduate uchumi? Makamu wake nuclear physicist?

Wenye wasaidizi wenye mi degree kibao? Au sio?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Una mifano mingi sana mizuri kuhusu nchi za wenzetu lakini unasahau kwamba kama vile signature yako inavyosema, "CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING"

Yes, context is everything.

Therefore, having a college degree or multiple college degrees doesn't necessarily make you a good leader.

I'll take someone without a college degree but with leadership ability over someone with multiple degrees and no leadership ability on any given day.

 

[Gurudumu]

Hebu weka hiyo ripoti yako hapa tuichambue kwanza.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Brasil hawakujali Lula kutokuwa na shahada ya chuo kikuu. Walizingatia uwezo wake.

Leo hii ona ilipo Brasil - South American economic juggernaut.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Kwamba elimu ni muhimu halina mjadala.

Je, elimu ni nini?

Ni shughuli yoyote ya mwanadamu that imparts knowledge au skills; na shughuli hii lazima iwe inalenga acquisition of learning au receiving instruction;

Ni mi degree?

Elimu sio mi degree, and in actual sense hiyo mi degree haiwezekani kupatikana bila ELIMU ya awali (ambayo nimeshaielezea hapo juu inapatikana vipi);

Wanaotaka kuweka sharti la degree wanasema elimu ni degree.

Mbunge kuwa na angalau shahada ya kwanza kwa mtazamo wangu atakuwa na nafasi nzuri zaidi to make a difference in his/her society - anayoiongoza; but again kuna so many factors ambazo zinaweza kumfanya huyu mweye hiyo degree awe hopeless kabisa; but still, this doesn't disqualify the fact kwamba if we leave everything else constant for a minute, Mbunge mwenye elimu zaidi ya ile ya darasa la saba stands a better chance to deliver;

Mimi nakataa, naona kwamba elimu ni pana zaidi ya degree, na kwamba ingawa elimu na degree vinaweza kwenda pamoja, si lazima, na mara nyingine hukinzana.

Upo sahihi.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Yes, context is everything.

Therefore, having a college degree or multiple college degrees doesn't necessarily make you a good leader.

I'll take someone without a college degree but with leadership ability over someone with multiple degrees and no leadership ability on any given day.

What about someone with a degree, leadership abilities and experienced versus someone with no degree but has somewhat same leadership abilities and experience with the former; what other factors would you consider before haujamchagua mmoja.

 

[Manyi]

Hapa sina haja ya ku-comment. Asanteni!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

What about someone with a degree, leadership abilities and experienced versus someone with no degree but has somewhat same leadership abilities and experience with the former; what other factors would you consider before haujamchagua mmoja.

I'd consider their track record, what they've done in the past.

I'd look to see if they have any proven results.

I'd put their records up against one another and see if what they say actually comports with what they they've done and I'll go from there.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Kama degree ingekuwa sawa na leadership ability Tanzania isingekuwa katika leadership crisis sasa hivi.

Wala matatizo ya kiuchumi.

Si tuna rais (rahisi?) graduate wa UDSM, tena kagraduate uchumi? Makamu wake nuclear physicist?

Wenye wasaidizi wenye mi degree kibao? Au sio?

Sasa naelewa hoja ya msingi ni nini; kwanza, ni kwamba Elimu ni muhimu lakini neno elimu ni pana sana; pili sio kigezo pekee kwani tuna case studies nyingi tu katika nafasi mbalimbali za uongozi; nadhani pia mwalimu anatusaidia katika hili pale anaposema kwenye TANU na Raia (1962):

"Wakoloni walipokuwa hapa walipanga mishahara bila ya kujali uwezo wetu kuilipa mishahara hiyo, na bila kuilinganisha mishahara hiyo na mapat ya watu wetu. Lakini wao ilikuwa ni ada yao kufanya hivyo. Serikali ya wageni haiwezi kujali maisha ya raia. Serikali ya ilikuwa ni serikali ya ubwana na ufahari; na walijitimizia ubwana wao na fahari yao, bila ya kujali uwezo wa watu wetu wa kugharamia ubwana huo na fahari hiyo.

Lakini baadhi yetu tulikuwa hatutambui jambo hilo. Waafrika wengi tulikuwa tumekwisha kusahau kwamba mzigo ule wa ubwana na ufahari ni mzito mno na watu wetu hawawezi kuubeba. Kilichokuwa kikituuma ni kwamba ubwana ule na fahari ile wazungu waligawana wenyewe tu, bila kutugawia na sisi pia; baadhi yetu hatukuwa tunadai uhuru ili uwapunguzie watu wetu mzigo huu wa ubwana na ufahari, bali tama yetu ilikuwa ni kukalia viti vile vya ubwana na ufahari. Tamaa yetu haikuwa kushika vyeo tu, vilivyokuwa vimeshikwa na wazungu hapo zamani, tulitaka na mishahara pia iliyokuwa ikifuatana na vyeo bila kujali kama watu wetu wanaweza kulipa mishahara hiyo, na bila kujali maisha ya watu."

Viongozi wenzake wakamjibu Mwalimu (kwa mujibu wa kitabu kingine nilichosoma)

"A Politician", they said, "has no security. Today he is a Minister, Tomorrow he is not, today he is an MP, after five years he is not, (or may be not), today he is a regional or area commissioner, tomorrow he is unemployed, today he is chairman of the region, district, or Town and tomorrow someone else may be elected in his or her place. Why does the Arusha Declaration prevent such leaders from providing by other means, for their future?"

Mwalimu akawajibu:

"In its entirely (Azimio la Arusha), "leaders ask this question more than any other and it is the most serious and dangerous question of all. Personal difficulties of the leaders are interest to the people only to the extent that they might be of such a degree that the leader cannot do his work properly. It is this consideration which causes some leaders to be paid while they carry responsibility. Leaders often forget this, and especially do they tend to forget the purposes of leadership in a socialist Tanzania: it is a good thing if the Arusha Declaration and its leadership requirements act as a constant reminder."

..."Which is the politician who sent to the people at election time and asked them to elect him so that he could provide for his future? Which Area or Regional Commissioner or other TANU worker got his job by saying he wanted to improve his personal position and get security for his future? Whenever a person seeks political work, whether it is through election or by appointment, he says he wants the opportunity to serve the people, to guard their interest and further their aspirations. What right has such a person, once he has the appointment he sought on this basis, use his responsibility for his own betterment? This question is absolutely central to the Arusha Declaration and to the whole purpose of TANU and the independent Tanzania."

Kiranga, hao ndio viongozi wetu wa leo unaowazungumzia.

 

[luhala]

Asalaam,
Katika tafiti nilizofanya kwenye website ya bunge, zaidi ya nusu (50+%) ya wabunge hawana degree. Hii inadhihirisha jinsi gani chombo kikuu cha kutunga sheria na kusimamia serikali hakina wataalamu.
Katika tafiti zangu nimebaini kuwa;
1. Wabunge wengi ni form four graduates na wana poccess certificates za mambo mbalimbali.
2. Wabunge wengi wasio na degree ni wale wa viti maalumu, huku wengi wao wakitokea CCM na CUF.
3. Wabunge wengi watokao visiwani hawana hata deploma.(STASHAHADA) i.e 60%.
MY CONCERN:
HIVI BUNGE LETU LINASIMAMIA SERIKALI AU LINASIMAMIWA NA SERIKALI.
Happy Ramadhan Kareem.

Digrii za nini kwani wenye ma PhD wamefanya nini cha maana? Walioihujumu nchi hii na kutufikisha hapa ndiyo hao wanaoitwa "wasomi" wenye ma-degree na ma-PhD. IPPTL, Richmond, Dowans, waliotia saini mikataba "mbuzi" inayoliangamizataifa leo woote walikuwa "wasomi", tena hata waliochora dili za kuiba Benki Kuu, kuuza nyumba za serikali na nyingine kuwanonga vimada wao woote wallikuwa "wasomi" Kwa upande mwingine wa,ioyalinda madini na kulipa taifa hili heshima tunayoipoteza sasa wengi walikuwa na elimu ya kawaida kabisa, wengine wzkiwa darasa la nane na form IV! Naona muhimu ni uwezo na uzalendo wa mtu; elimu ya kiasi tu inatosha.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Brasil hawakujali Lula kutokuwa na shahada ya chuo kikuu. Walizingatia uwezo wake.

Leo hii ona ilipo Brasil - South American economic juggernaut.

Ni kweli, na kama lugha ya kiswahili ingekuwa kubwa kama kireno, tuna hazina kubwa sana ya viongozi wenye uwezo uliotukuka lakini ambao hawajui kuzungumza kiingereza au kusoma na kuchambua mambo kwa lugha hii; in brazil, u can survive and make a good leader bila english; not Tanzania;

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Ni kweli, na kama lugha ya kiswahili ingekuwa kubwa kama kireno, tuna hazina kubwa sana ya viongozi wenye uwezo uliotukuka lakini ambao hawajui kuzungumza kiingereza au kusoma na kuchambua mambo kwa lugha hii; in brazil, u can survive and make a good leader bila english; not Tanzania;

Hiyo hoja ya kwamba huwezi kuwa kiongozi mzuri Tanzania bila ku-master lugha ya Kiingereza mimi naikataa.

Ni defeatist attitude.

Kwa nini ishindikane kuweza kuchambua mambo kwa Kiswahili?

 

[Kiranga]

Hiyo hoja ya kwamba huwezi kuwa kiongozi mzuri Tanzania bila ku-master lugha ya Kiingereza mimi naikataa.

Ni defeatist attitude.

Kwa nini ishindikane kuweza kuchambua mambo kwa Kiswahili?

Naunga mkono,

Hususan kwa sababu hao wanaosemwa wanashindwa kuongoza kwa sababu hawajui kiingereza, hata Kiswahili chenyewe pia hawakijui!

 

[Mchambuzi]

Hiyo hoja ya kwamba huwezi kuwa kiongozi mzuri Tanzania bila ku-master lugha ya Kiingereza mimi naikataa.

Ni defeatist attitude.

Kwa nini ishindikane kuweza kuchambua mambo kwa Kiswahili?

I didnt necessarily mean it that way; point ya msingi hapa ni kwamba lugha ya kiingereza ni muhimu kwa sababu tumeshindwa kukitumia kiswahili kwa maendeleo ya taifa kama wanavyofanya brazil na kireno, warusi na kirusi, nk; viongozi wa urusi, ureno, brazil wakienda to any summits nje, wanazungumza lugha yao na kinachoendelea ni tafsiri kwa pande ze mbili zinazohusika; sisi viongozi wetu wengi wanatuingiza kwenye mikataba mibovu au wanashindwa to negotiate better deals za AID, Loans kwa sababu ya kushindwa to master lugha ya kiingereza huku wakiweka less efforts kuhakikisha tnabadilika na kuwa kama brazil in that context;

Kama Ureno inapeta na kuwa katika mataifa i think kumi bora kiuchumi duniani (brazil also being in top 10), why not brazil wakati mataifa yote haya wanatumia kireno kwenye kila kitu, na kama kuna suala toka lugha nyingine, wanalifanyia tafsiri into kireno na kulifanyia kazi.