'Who created God' is an Illogical Question!

[always am a Winner]

Wapi nimesema nataka kumuona Mungu?

Wapi nimesema unataka kumuona Mungu?

 

[always am a Winner]

..one can't determine a thought is Bad or Good mpka mtu ametenda kitu kwaio i can't prove thought na hakuna wazo zuri au Baya mpka liwe converted into an action

Wazo zuri au baya lipo hata kabla ya matendo, sema huwezi jua kama mtu anakuwazia zuri au baya.

Nashukuru umekubali kuwa siyo kila kitu kilichopo kinaweza kuthibitishwa kwa 5 senses.

 

[Kiranga]

Wapi nimesema unataka kumuona Mungu?

Umeandika

You want to know but you use incorrect approach.

Its just as if you want to prove that oxygen exist by seeing it. You CANT.

Achana na Roman Alphabets, yoyote anayekataa kuwa kitu hakipo lazima awe na ushahidi. Very simple.

Huwezi kuthibitisha kitu ambacho hakipo hakipo, lakini unaweza kuthibitisha kuwa kitu HAKIPO.

Why the "seeing it" comparison then?

 

[always am a Winner]

What is a fact?

There are many definitions....but alteast you can say its..... "Something that can be verified to be true"

 

[always am a Winner]

That does not prove God exists.

Can you prove God exists?

True; That does not prove that God exist, but prove that humankinds have limit in their thinking.

 

[UHURU JR]

Contradiction katika dhana ya kuwapo Mungu inathibitisha kwamba Mungu hayupo.

Kama inavyothibitisha hakuna solution for x below

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Kungekuwa hakuna contradiction imani ya mungu moja kwa moja ingekuwa ni uthibitisho kuwa mungu yupo?

 

[Hb wa Ilala]

Wazo zuri au baya lipo hata kabla ya matendo, sema huwezi jua kama mtu anakuwazia zuri au baya.

Nashukuru umekubali kuwa siyo kila kitu kilichopo kinaweza kuthibitishwa kwa 5 senses.

..does that take us any step further towards prove of God's existance?!

 

[always am a Winner]

..thats why this is a debate,kama hii current limit of my capacity why hasn't anyone else eradated this contradictions I have???its because no one knows better

No, its because your brain can not handle.

Can you make a normal infant understand Calculus?

 

[Hb wa Ilala]

No, its because your brain can not handle.

Can you make a normal infant understand Calculus?

..that Just proved how many steps astray we are taking further from the main theme of the thread,u can Just answer Yourself that question!!!

 

[always am a Winner]

Umeandika



Why the "seeing it" comparison then?

Is God a Oxygen?

That was just an illustration. My point was, 'You can not use incorrect approach to prove something"
You can't want to prove Oxygen by simply seeing it by naked eyes, you have to undertake scientific experiment.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Swali langu lina address msingi wa mazungumzo yetu.

Hata maswali yangu ni sehemu ya msingi wa haya mazungumzo.

Ukikubali framework ya logic, unakubali kwamba contradiction inaonesha habari ina makosa na haiwezi kuwa kweli kama ilivyoletwa, contradiction inatakiwa kuwa resolved.

Habari kuwa na makosa, hiyo haimaanishi moja kwa moja kuwa hiyo habari si ya kweli.

Uwepo wa contradiction siyo ushahidi wa kwamba habari nzima ni ya uongo.

Hiyo ni kwa sababu contradictions zinaweza kusababishwa na kutokujua au kutokufahamu mambo kadhaa.

Contradictions zinaweza kusababishwa na njia iliyotumika au zilizotumika kuipata hiyo habari au vile jinsi ilivyowasilishwa.

Na ndo maana nikakuuliza yale maswali. Ili kuondoa contradictions zilizopo, pengine ujuzi na ufahamu zaidi unahitajika.

Ila sasa kama wewe ushahitimisha kabisa kuwa kwa vile kuna contradictions flani flani basi hakuna tena hata haja ya kufanya utafiti zaidi ili tuweze kujua, kama kuna mengi zaidi ya kuyajua, utayajuaje?

Ushahitimisha kuwa kinachosemwa kuwa kipo, hakipo.

Vyote vilivyopo wewe unavijua?

Mungu mjuzi wa yote, mwenye uwezo wote na upendo wote ambaye kaumba ulimwengu huu unaoruhusu maovu wakati alikuwa na uwezo wa kuumba ulimwengu ambao hauruhusu maovu ni contradiction, hivyo hayupo, angalau hayupo kama hivyo anavyosemwa.

Yawezekana hao wanaosema mungu yuko hivyo nao wanakosea. Maana wanatumia rejea ambayo inadaiwa iliandikwa miaka mingi ilopita ambapo njia za ujuzi wa mambo hazikuwa advanced kama zilivyo sasa hivi.

Zamani pia si kuna watu waliamini dunia ni bapa? Lakini baadae maendeleo ya ujuzi yakaja yakatuonyesha kuwa sivyo. Kwamba dunia si bapa kama walivyoamini au kukubali watu wa enzi hizo bali ni duara.

Basi na kwa mungu labda ipo siku, kutokana na maendeleo ya ujuzi, tukaja kujua zaidi kuhusu yeye.

Ukikataa framework ya logic, hata huyo Mungu mwenyewe anakosa haja ya kuwapo kwa sababu msingi wa Mungu kuwapo ni logical (first mover is about the logic of sequence and cause and effect, creator pretty much the same thing, the very act of arguing for the existence of God is logical, because it is an argument)

So, if you accept the framework of logic the God idea has a problem.

If you do not accept the framework of logic the God idea has a big problem.In fact the problem becomes so big nothing can make sense, because anything making sense is that anything being logical.

Of course I accept the framework of logic. But I accept it with qualification.

 

[always am a Winner]

Kungekuwa hakuna contradiction imani ya mungu moja kwa moja ingekuwa ni uthibitisho kuwa mungu yupo?

Very good reasoning!

 

[always am a Winner]

..does that take us any step further towards prove of God's existance?!

Yeah. If you now know that not everything can be proved by 5 senses, then you have to understand that you need to find another approach of verifying God apart from 5 senses. Simple.

 

[Kiranga]

Hata maswali yangu ni sehemu ya msingi wa haya mazungumzo.



Habari kuwa na makosa, hiyo haimaanishi moja kwa moja kuwa hiyo habari si ya kweli.

Uwepo wa contradiction siyo ushahidi wa kwamba habari nzima ni ya uongo.

Hiyo ni kwa sababu contradictions zinaweza kusababishwa na kutokujua au kutokufahamu mambo kadhaa.

Contradictions zinaweza kusababishwa na njia iliyotumika au zilizotumika kuipata hiyo habari au vile jinsi ilivyowasilishwa.

Na ndo maana nikakuuliza yale maswali. Ili kuondoa contradictions zilizopo, pengine ujuzi na ufahamu zaidi unahitajika.

Ila sasa kama wewe ushahitimisha kabisa kuwa kwa vile kuna contradictions flani flani basi hakuna tena hata haja ya kufanya utafiti zaidi ili tuweze kujua, kama kuna mengi zaidi ya kuyajua, utayajuaje?

Ushahitimisha kuwa kinachosemwa kuwa kipo, hakipo.

Vyote vilivyopo wewe unavijua?



Yawezekana hao wanaosema mungu yuko hivyo nao wanakosea. Maana wanatumia rejea ambayo inadaiwa iliandikwa miaka mingi ilopita ambapo njia za ujuzi wa mambo hazikuwa advanced kama zilivyo sasa hivi.

Zamani pia si kuna watu waliamini dunia ni bapa? Lakini baadae maendeleo ya ujuzi yakaja yakatuonyesha kuwa sivyo. Kwamba dunia si bapa kama walivyoamini au kukubali watu wa enzi hizo bali ni duara.

Basi na kwa mungu labda ipo siku, kutokana na maendeleo ya ujuzi, tukaja kujua zaidi kuhusu yeye.



Of course I accept the framework of logic. But I accept it with qualification.

Ushahidi zaidi si ndio huo nauomba kwa wanaosema Mungu yupo watupe habari ya huyo Mungu kuwapo ambayo haina utata na imenyooka?

Mimi mtu akiniwekea habari ya kuwapo kwa Mungu iliyonyooka nitafurahi.

For starters I as part of humanity, will not be the highest known intelligence solely responsible for global warming, silly wars, internet lists, showers that do not heat up instantly, Vogon like bureaucrats, smelly people, the common cold and chewing gum on the pavement, just to mention a few of my pet peeves.

Sijapata ushahidi kwamba Mungu huyo yupo.

Na kila ushahidi ninaopata unaonesha Mungu huyo hayupo.

Katika mizani yangu, ushahidi kwamba Mungu huyo hayupo umeuelemea sana ushahidi kwamba kuna uwezekano wa Mungu huyo kuwepo.

Siwezi kusema niwe agnostic mpaka nijue kila kitu kwa sababu ukitaka kujua kila kitu utakufa kwa kuogopa kupumua kwa sababu hujui usafi wa hewa na unaogopa ukipumua utakufa kwa kuvuta hewa ya sumu.

 

[Kiranga]

Kungekuwa hakuna contradiction imani ya mungu moja kwa moja ingekuwa ni uthibitisho kuwa mungu yupo?

Kuna vitu vingi havina contradiction lakini havipo.

Filimbi ya dhahabu isiyosikika wala kuweza kujulikana na mawazo ya binadamu inayo endesha mawimbi ya bahari haina contradiction, lakini kutokuwa na contradiction huko hakufanyi iwepo.

Chenye contradiction hakipo kama kinavyosemwa na kuwa contradiction.

Kwa hiyo njia moja ya kuonesha kitu hakipo kama kinavyosemwa ni kuonesha a clear contradiction.

Hilo halina maana kwamba kila kitu kisichokuwa na contradiction kipo.

 

[UHURU JR]

Kuna vitu vingi havina contradiction lakini havipo.

Filimbi ya dhahabu isiyosikika wala kuweza kujulikana na mawazo ya binadamu inayo endesha mawimbi ya bahari haina contradiction, lakini kutokuwa na contradiction huko hakufanyi iwepo.

Chenye contradiction hakipo kama kinavyosemwa na kuwa contradiction.

Kwa hiyo njia moja ya kuonesha kitu hakipo kama kinavyosemwa ni kuonesha a clear contradiction.

Hilo halina maana kwamba kila kitu kisichokuwa na contradiction kipo.

We umejuaje kuwa hiyo filimbi ya dhahabu haipo?

"Kwa hiyo njia moja ya kuonesha kitu hakipo kama kinavyosemwa ni kuonesha a clear contradiction."

Na hapa ndiyo maana kunahitajika uthibitisho,kwa sababu yawezakuwa hicho kitu hakipo kama kinavyosemwa lakini kikawepo kwa tofauti na kinavyosemwa. Sasa ukisema hakipo kabisa hiyo ni kesi nyengine yenye kuhitaji uthibitisho.

 

[Kiranga]

We umejuaje kuwa hiyo filimbi ya dhahabu haipo?

"Kwa hiyo njia moja ya kuonesha kitu hakipo kama kinavyosemwa ni kuonesha a clear contradiction."

Na hapa ndiyo maana kunahitajika uthibitisho,kwa sababu yawezakuwa hicho kitu hakipo kama kinavyosemwa lakini kikawepo kwa tofauti na kinavyosemwa. Sasa ukisema hakipo kabisa hiyo ni kesi nyengine yenye kuhitaji uthibitisho.

Unaweza kuthibitisha Mungu yupo?

Unaamini hiyo filimbi niliyoitunga tu ipo?

Siwezi kushangaa, unaamini Mungu yupo after all.

 

[UHURU JR]

Unaweza kuthibitisha Mungu yupo?

Unaamini hiyo filimbi niliyoitunga tu ipo?

Siwezi kushangaa, unaamini Mungu yupo after all.

Nijibu maswali yangu nami nitakujibu maswali yako.

 

[Kiranga]

Nijibu maswali yangu nami nitakujibu maswali yako.

Mzozo kama filimbi hiyo ipo au haipo ni sawasawa na mzozo kama Mungu yupo.

I just made up that story arbitrarily. Can you prove that it exists?

Ukisema filimbi hiyo ipo ni sawa na useme Mungu yupo. Tena bora hata hiyo filimbi haina contradiction.

Kwenye contradiction, umekubali huyo Mungu kama alivyokuwa presented na kutupa contradiction hayupo?

 

[UHURU JR]

Mzozo kama filimbi hiyo ipo au haipo ni sawasawa na mzozo kama Mungu yupo.

I just made up that story arbitrarily. Can you prove that it exists?

Ukisema filimbi hiyo ipo ni sawa na useme Mungu yupo. Tena bora hata hiyo filimbi haina contradiction.

Kwenye contradiction, umekubali huyo Mungu kama alivyokuwa presented na kutupa contradiction hayupo?

Kwahiyo hiyo filimbi haipo kwa sababu umeitunga wewe?basi sawa hilo tumemalizana.

Haya tuendelee kwenye contradiction.