'Who created God' is an Illogical Question!

jorochere95 · Oct 13, 2016

always am a Winner said:
Some of the answers you will never get because you are not GOD. However naweza nikasema kuwa Mungu hufanya vitu logically ingawa hafungwi na logical. Yeye ndiye muasisi wa logic ambayo tunaijua sisi. ( Mungu ni yeye yule Jana, Leo na hata milele).

(Ikumbukwe kuwa kila kitu katika ulimwengu ni logical, we just see some of them illogical because we can't comprehend them using our normal brains).

I knw you will start to ask me questions like 'Can God create pembetatu duara'? I will answer as follow;

Out of our normal logic, its impossible, but, as God is not limited with logic, then we may conclude that God can do anything even things we can not imagine .

You may also ask this question, "Can God create a triangle for which sum of angles are greater than 180°? Then I answer as follows;
1. Degrees is a human invention. Therefore, if a man wanted the triangle to have 1000°, they would do it.
2. In more than two dimensions, (I.e. for example in three dimensions) triangles may have more than 180° logically.

To sum up, our God exist outside our known dimensions and knowledge and therefore, we can not clearly describe his power, authority, and capability. We have to accept him, honour him, worship him, believe him, glorify him, and trust him.

Moreover, we have to ask him to give us the knowledge of him.

To sum up, nataka watu kama Kiranga wa confess kwanza kuwa suala ya Who Created God is illogical question, kwa hiyo sitarajii mtu kuuliza maswali kama ya ' Nani kamuumba Mungu? Au Mungu katoka wapi? Hiyo ni kwa sababu Mungu hajatoka popote. Yupo milele, hana MWANZO, hana MWISHO!

You are a universal genius.I salute you in the name of Jah !

Kiranga · Oct 13, 2016

always am a Winner said:
Kiranga, kuna vitu vingine vipo lakini kuvithibitisha haiwezekani. Mfano;

Watu wa mwaka 1800 ungewaambia kutokana na kujifunza nature ya universe, blackholes zipo au dark energy ipo, wangekuambia thibitisha. Na usingeweza.

Ndivyo ilivyo kwa Mungu. Kuna kipindi kitafika ambacho utathibitisha kuwa Mungu yupo, lakini kwa sasa kwa kushindwa kuthibitisha hakukanushi uwepo wake.

Shika msemo huu ni muhimu sana.

[HASHTAG]#Kushindwa[/HASHTAG] kuthibitisha hakukanushi uwepo wa kitu, bali kushindwa kuthibitisha ni 'kushindwa' tu kuthibitisha kutokana na kukosa maarifa ya kuthibitisha#

Sawa. Kuna vitu vipo, haviwezi kuthibitishwa kama vipo.

Kuna vitu havipo. Haviwezi kuthibitishwa kama vipo.

Kitu ambacho hakiwezi kuthibitishwa kwamba kipo mtu akikwambia kipo, utajuaje kama kipo au hakipo?

Nikikwambia juu ya mlima Kilimanjaro kuna taa ya dhahabu inayowaka sana mwanga wa kichawi kiasi kwamba macho yetu ya kibinadamu hayawezi kuiona, utaamini au hutaamini?

Kwa sababu gani?

Apollo · Oct 13, 2016

gasgas said:
Nobody said morality started from religion

God put it in a man's spirit the ability to discern right and wrong, which is manifested as morality whether the man is involved in religion or not

God didn't put these truths in man's heart when man start communing with other men in worship or a certain system of worship. He put them when man came to life

And if you read the bible, you would know God will judge righteously

Let's say
To one person, 20% of the truth was given
unto another 80% was given

the 80% will be expected to have acted better because the bible says "To whom more is given more is required/more will be asked of him"

So eve

Ni mitazamo yako pia.

I do not believe in the existence of a permanent identity within man - a soul.

Kitombise · Oct 13, 2016

CHARMILTON said:
Mkuu hata wachungaji wanajua kabisa kuwa hakuna sauti ya Mungu.Ukitaka kuthibitisha hilo fanya zoezi hili:

Chukua milioni moja uende kanisani/ofisini kwa mchungaji, ukifika mwambie....Baba mchungaji nimeisikia sauti ya Mungu ikiniambia nimtolee malimbuko/fungu la kumi, nami kwa kuitii sauti ya Mungu nimemletea Bwana haki yake.Nakuomba uipokee, uiombee na uniombee kwa Mumngu.(observe reaction, kama vile facial expressions)....Lazima atafurahi sana, na kukusifu kwa kuisikia sauti ya Bw.

Baada ya miezi miwili nenda tena kwa mchungaji na umwambie....Baba mchungaji Mungu amejidhihirisha kwangu na amenibariki....nimepandishwa cheo kazini na mshahara wangu umeongezeka zaidi ya mara mbili na nusu.Lazima aseme haleluya na kumshangilia Bwana.Mpe chochote(pesa) halafu mfanye sala ya kuagana.Hakikisha unawasiliana naye mara kwa mara.

Miezi mitatu baadae mwendee tena na umwambie....Baba mchungaji nimeisikia ile sauti ya Bwana ikinena nami, inaniambia niache kazi....nimesali sana kumtaka Bw. aniambie nitafanya nini baada ya kuacha kazi lakini Bwana amenitaka niache kazi kwanza....observe reaction, hapo hawezi kuishangilia sauti ya bwana kama ile ya mwanzoni....Lazima akuambie....umeisikiliza vema sauti ya Bw?....Na badala ya kukusifu kwa kuisikiliza sauti ya bwana, atakuambia nenda kasali, funga, na kesha kumwomba Bwana akujulishe kama amenena nawe?.....Hapo ndo utaelewa hawa watu walishajidatia longi.

Nmecheka sana hapaaa

tena hapo kwenye kutaka kuacha kazi atakuambiwa kuwa "hiyo ni chafu(mapepo) hivyo inabidi ikemewe"

sasa hapo ndo utashangaa kwanini anapingana na roho ya bwana tena.
Wakati ile roho ya mwanzo aliikubali na kuifurahia lakini hii anaikataa

always am a Winner · Oct 13, 2016

Kiranga said:
Do you know that you do not need to know everything to know that a certain answer is a wrong answer given that you know certain principles of finding the answer?

That you do not need to know the square root of every number to know that the square root if 10 is not 15?

You only need to know that the square root of a number cannot be bigger than that number.

The existence of this omnipotent, omniscient and omni benevolent godhead is as self contradicting as saying the square root of 10 is 15.

This can be demonstrated logically.

Of course you can pull an endless amount of "deus ex machina" devices against this, making up things and excuses as you go along, but you cant do so logically.

I said, and I say it again that everything in this world is a logical thing. We just can't comprehend everything that's why we think some things are illogical.

gasgas · Oct 13, 2016

Kiranga said:
Why answer irrelevant questions?

If the question is "is the square root of 10 = 15?" in base 10 why would I need to know all the numbers in the universe to answer this question?

That's one way of looking at it

I gave you another way of looking at it

To a 2nd grader 2-6= impossible

To a high schooler 2-6= -4

You are only able to say certain things are / aren't only when you have attained all the knowledge needed

Nyani Ngabu · Oct 13, 2016

Kiranga said:
No, the questions you asked are irrelevant. Because we have a framework for discussion, to make the discussion orderly.

I am discussing the omnipotent, omniscient and omni benevolent Godhead.

In a logocal context.

I don't need to know everything in the world to show the fallacies of this godhead.

I just need to show one logical contradiction.

I have done that.

Good try, but I don't think they are irrelevant😀.

gasgas · Oct 13, 2016

jonax said:
Nmecheka sana hapaaa

tena hapo kwenye kutaka kuacha kazi atakuambiwa kuwa "hiyo ni chafu(mapepo) hivyo inabidi ikemewe"

sasa hapo ndo utashangaa kwanini anapingana na roho ya bwana tena.
Wakati ile roho ya mwanzo aliikubali na kuifurahia lakini hii anaikataa

Mchungaji is a human being.
He is falliable

gasgas · Oct 13, 2016

always am a Winner said:
Habari zenu wana JF. Leo nataka niwaletee ukweli ambao wapinga mungu kama Kiranga huwa hawauelewi. Swali hilo ni hili.

Swali: Je, kama Mungu yupo, nani alimuumba Mungu? (Au ametokea wapi?)

Jibu: Mungu ana sifa ya kutokuwa na mwanzo wala mwisho, hivyo hilo swali halina mantiki. Pia tufanye kuwa Mungu ameumbwa, kwa hiyo logic ni kuwa aliyemuumba naye anatakiwa awe ameumbwa, na kuendelea. Hivyo ni wazi kuwa kutakuwa na miungu infinity kitu ambacho ni Illogical. Hivyo namaliza kwa kusema kuwa, Swali la Who Created God is an illogical question.

Brother you can continue reasoning with Kiranga from now on
I will reason with those who are willing to listen like apollo
He probably disagrees with all I say but he is willing to listen
I have played my part.

I can't waste my time in futility. i think it is wise to go after things that will yield fruit Right,
I assume you're older than me
What do you think brother?

Kiranga · Oct 13, 2016

always am a Winner said:
I said, and I say it again that everything in this world is a logical thing. We just can't comprehend everything that's why we think some things are illogical.

That is a "Deus ex Machina"

You just said "the lord woks in mysterious ways" as an answer to a tough question you cannot answer.

A "Deus ex Machina" is not an answer, it is an admission that you do not know the answer and you are just making up stuff.

de·us ex ma·chi·na
ˌdāəs eks ˈmäkənə,ˌdāəs eks ˈmakənə/
noun
noun: deus ex machina

an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel.

Deus ex machina - Wikipedia

gasgas · Oct 13, 2016

Apollo said:
Ni mitazamo yako pia.

I do not believe in the existence of a permanent identity within man - a soul.

Siyo mtazamo wangu
Ni mtazamo wa kwenye bible
Kwa hiyo since the Bible is the sole source of information in The Christian faith

Then huu ni mtazamo wa Christian faith

Kiranga · Oct 13, 2016

gasgas said:
That's one way of looking at it

I gave you another way of looking at it

To a 2nd grader 2-6= impossible

To a high schooler 2-6= -4

You are only able to say certain things are / aren't only when you have attained all the knowledge needed

Yes, but all that is using logic.

Your God is based on illogic.

ShyaRuwa · Oct 13, 2016

jonax said:
Nmecheka sana hapaaa

tena hapo kwenye kutaka kuacha kazi atakuambiwa kuwa "hiyo ni chafu(mapepo) hivyo inabidi ikemewe"

sasa hapo ndo utashangaa kwanini anapingana na roho ya bwana tena.
Wakati ile roho ya mwanzo aliikubali na kuifurahia lakini hii anaikataa

Unaona?...unaona sasa?

Mipango ya mawazo yako yaweza kuitwa sauti ya Mungu ama ya pepo mchafu.

Hivyo hakuna kitu kinaitwa sauti ya Mungu, wala hakijawahi kuwepo!

gasgas · Oct 13, 2016

Kiranga said:
Yes, but all that is using logic.

Your God is based on illogic.

It could be

But what if I put it to you that God is above logic?

Kiranga · Oct 13, 2016

Nyani Ngabu said:
Good try, but I don't think they are irrelevant😀.

Those questions are relevant when talking about an undefined God.Outside the context of logic.

I am talking about a clearly defined God. Within the context of logic.

The questions are irrelevant.

Nyani Ngabu · Oct 13, 2016

Kiranga said:
Yes, but all that is using logic.

Your God is based on illogic.

So everything that is based on 'illogic' doesn't exist?

Kiranga · Oct 13, 2016

gasgas said:
It could be

But what if I put it to you that God is above logic?

Then the entire basis of trying to know this God breaks down.

Any conversation about God is baseless.

Because conversations are done in language, language uses logic.

Besides, your God cannot pass human logic so he cannot be above logic.

jorochere95 · Oct 13, 2016

jonax said:
Nmecheka sana hapaaa

tena hapo kwenye kutaka kuacha kazi atakuambiwa kuwa "hiyo ni chafu(mapepo) hivyo inabidi ikemewe"

sasa hapo ndo utashangaa kwanini anapingana na roho ya bwana tena.
Wakati ile roho ya mwanzo aliikubali na kuifurahia lakini hii anaikataa

Jaribu siku moja baada ya ibada kumwambia Mchungaji wako "Mchungaji Mungu kaniagiza kwenye ndoto niondoke na sadaka zote"uone atavyo react .. !

gasgas · Oct 13, 2016

CHARMILTON said:
Unaona?...unaona sasa?

Mipango ya mawazo yako yaweza kuitwa sauti ya Mungu ama ya pepo mchafu.

Hivyo hakuna kitu kinaitwa sauti ya Mungu, wala hakijawahi kuwepo!

Just because certain people are misled doesnt mean that is how its supposed to be

The scriptures teach us jinsi ya kutambua ipi ni sauti ya Mungu ipi siyo

Kama kuna watu wanatafuta kuitambua sauti ya Mungu kwa njia nyingine apart from ile iliyopo kwenye scriptures, ni kosa la nani wao wanapopotea na kufanya kinyume

gasgas · Oct 13, 2016

Kiranga said:
Then the entire basic of trying to know this God breaks down.

Any conversation about God is baseless.

Because conversations are done in language, language uses logic.

Yeah and i thought i made it clear that God is incomprehensible in the realm of the mind peke yake
He is a spiritual being and in the spiritual realm of God we are able to discern him

I have written this so many times over and over kwenye past pages
But just like how many Tanzanians act
You didn't read
It's unbelievable really

'Who created God' is an Illogical Question!

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