Waafrika ndivyo tulivyo?

[Mwafrika]

Hali ya sasa na ya baadae kwa afrika itasaidia kuchambua na kueleza ukweli wa uwezo wa waafrika. So far ingawa ninashawishika kuwa proud na uwezo wetu waafrika lakini yale yanayoendelea katika bara hili yanatisha pia.

 

[Steve Dii]

Nadhani mjadala umekwisha sasa. Pamoja na ukweli kwamba nilikukwa kimya kwa muda, Napenda kuchukua fursa hii kukushuru ndugu nyani na ndugu massanja kwa michango yenu. Pia wote wenye mtazamo tofauti, pokeeni pongezi zangu. Naomba kutoa hoja.

MWANAMALUNDI na wengine wote, ahsante sana kwa michango yenu kwenye thread hii. However with regard to your epilog above, I wouldn't wanna promise much, but it is likely that a 'sequel' to the thread is on its way, Thank you!!

SteveD.

 

[The Truth]

Hello Forum,

I think the point Prof Watson was making is we can infer the level of intelligence among Blacks. This can happen prior to having any DNA evidence to prove it. The same way we infer there is gravity even though there is no scientific evidence to prove it. I believe this inference is drawn from the following facts:

1. Other races that reside in Africa are better off than Blacks. Indians, Arabs, Whites etc on average have better living standards than Blacks. So clearly the environment is NOT the culprit. Africa is not the problem it is the citizens that inhabit her. If you bring Whites or Asians for instance to occupy Africa, within 2 generations it will look completely different in terms of development. We have seen the evidence of this when European colonialists managed to build great prosperous African societies. So it is not the environment.

2. The number of highly educated Blacks is relatively low compared to other races. For example there is only one woman with a PhD in Chemical Engineering at UDSM and I am not sure if that woman is even Black. The number of Black Phds is lower than that of other races. So yes, there are extremely smart Blacks but they are statistical anomalies. We can't use them as a measuring stick for general Black intelligence as mentioned by Professor Watson.

3. Blacks struggle even outside Africa. Look at Haiti for instance. Even the Blacks who reside in Europe and North America struggle. Is this still environment? If it is racism then how come Asians prosper in Western societies? Racism is not impeding their progress.

4. Standardized test scores such as SAT, GMAT, GRE etc show that Blacks have the lowest scores on average. Yes, there are some Blacks who ace these exams but on average Black students struggle. Why?? Are these tests cultural biased? Then how come Chinese students and other Asian students ace these tests?? How do they manage to overcome those cultural biases and do well in these standardized tests?

If we seriously look at the above points we will begin to see the point Professor Watson was making. I think the discussion should be how can Blacks improve their intelligence. The average IQ of populations tend to flactuate and rise over generations. What factors contribute to this rise? This is where the debate should be in order to help Africa.

Just my cents!!

 

[Kijakazi]

Hello Forum,

I think the point Prof Watson was making is we can infer the level of intelligence among Blacks. This can happen prior to having any DNA evidence to prove it. The same way we infer there is gravity even though there is no scientific evidence to prove it. I believe this inference is drawn from the following facts:

1. Other races that reside in Africa are better off than Blacks. Indians, Arabs, Whites etc on average have better living standards than Blacks. So clearly the environment is NOT the culprit. Africa is not the problem it is the citizens that inhabit her. If you bring Whites or Asians for instance to occupy Africa, within 2 generations it will look completely different in terms of development. We have seen the evidence of this when European colonialists managed to build great prosperous African



societies. So it is not the environment.

2. The number of highly educated Blacks is relatively low compared to other races. For example there is only one woman with a PhD in Chemical Engineering at UDSM and I am not sure if that woman is even Black. The number of Black Phds is lower than that of other races. So yes, there are extremely smart Blacks but they are statistical anomalies. We can't use them as a measuring stick for general Black intelligence as mentioned by Professor Watson.

3. Blacks struggle even outside Africa. Look at Haiti for instance. Even the Blacks who reside in Europe and North America struggle. Is this still environment? If it is racism then how come Asians prosper in Western societies? Racism is not impeding their progress.

4. Standardized test scores such as SAT, GMAT, GRE etc show that Blacks have the lowest scores on average. Yes, there are some Blacks who ace these exams but on average Black students struggle. Why?? Are these tests cultural biased? Then how come Chinese students and other Asian students ace these tests?? How do they manage to overcome those cultural biases and do well in these standardized tests?

If we seriously look at the above points we will begin to see the point Professor Watson was making. I think the discussion should be how can Blacks improve their intelligence. The average IQ of populations tend to flactuate and rise over generations. What factors contribute to this rise? This is where the debate should be in order to help Africa.

Just my cents!!

Kwanza moja wewe huna akili kwa sababu kama ungekua na akili kwanza usingeandika humu kiingereza kigumu , pili kama kweli ungekua na akili ya kufikiria ungewaza hayo uliyoyasema, utaona kua kama leo hii ukienda india au china au nchi yeyote ila na ukataka kutafuta ushahidi wa kitu fulani ambacho wewe mwenyewe unakiamini utakipata tuu, kwa hiyo kama unaamini kuwa watu weusi hawana akili na unataka kuthibitisha hilo basi utaweza kufanya hivyo vile vile pia kama ungetaka kuamini kwamba watu weusi wana akili na ungetaka kuthibitisha hilo ungeweza vilevile, na hizo takwimu zako sijui umezitoa wapi na naomba uniambia na unithibitishie kuwa kuna wahingi na wachina wengi waliosoma kuliko waafrika kwa asilimia kulinganisha na idadi ya watu wao.
Ni lazima uelewe kuwa ktk dunia hii kila kitu ni imani kama unaamini hivyo basi huwezi kukosa sababu za kuthibitisha imani zako kama vile watu wanavyoamini kua kuna mungu, yesu,maria,muhamdi n.k na sisi waafrika tulioelimika tunajiamini na tunajua kuwa matatizo tuliyonao tutayatatua, kama ni umaskini ukiangalia huko asia unakokuongelea kuna maskini wengi kuliko afrika.......... na pia sijui hata kama unaelewa maana ya nguvu za mvutano (gravity) manake umesema hakuna ushahidi kama ipo sasa sijui unaongea nini ni wapi ambapo nguvu za uvutano huwezi kuihisi F = mg, kama una muda ninaweza nikakuelimisha kwa hilo...... mimi nasema nyie mnaoamini hivyo na muendelee kuamini manake hao akina watson watakua wamefanikiwa ktk propaganda zao lkni sisi wengine tunaamini ktk afrika inayoendelea kwa taarifa yako wastani wa ukuaji uchumi ktk bara la afrika ni asilimia 6 na ni miaka michache tuu watu kama ninyi mtakua mnatafuta sehemu za kujificha kwa aibu jinsi bara letu litavyokua linakua.........

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Hello Forum,

I think the point Prof Watson was making is we can infer the level of intelligence among Blacks. This can happen prior to having any DNA evidence to prove it. The same way we infer there is gravity even though there is no scientific evidence to prove it. I believe this inference is drawn from the following facts:

1. Other races that reside in Africa are better off than Blacks. Indians, Arabs, Whites etc on average have better living standards than Blacks. So clearly the environment is NOT the culprit. Africa is not the problem it is the citizens that inhabit her. If you bring Whites or Asians for instance to occupy Africa, within 2 generations it will look completely different in terms of development. We have seen the evidence of this when European colonialists managed to build great prosperous African societies. So it is not the environment.

2. The number of highly educated Blacks is relatively low compared to other races. For example there is only one woman with a PhD in Chemical Engineering at UDSM and I am not sure if that woman is even Black. The number of Black Phds is lower than that of other races. So yes, there are extremely smart Blacks but they are statistical anomalies. We can't use them as a measuring stick for general Black intelligence as mentioned by Professor Watson.

3. Blacks struggle even outside Africa. Look at Haiti for instance. Even the Blacks who reside in Europe and North America struggle. Is this still environment? If it is racism then how come Asians prosper in Western societies? Racism is not impeding their progress.

4. Standardized test scores such as SAT, GMAT, GRE etc show that Blacks have the lowest scores on average. Yes, there are some Blacks who ace these exams but on average Black students struggle. Why?? Are these tests cultural biased? Then how come Chinese students and other Asian students ace these tests?? How do they manage to overcome those cultural biases and do well in these standardized tests?

If we seriously look at the above points we will begin to see the point Professor Watson was making. I think the discussion should be how can Blacks improve their intelligence. The average IQ of populations tend to flactuate and rise over generations. What factors contribute to this rise? This is where the debate should be in order to help Africa.

Just my cents!!

Raj my friend? You are back!! How have you been?

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

It has been a while..naona mmemtoa alikofichwa..

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Wewe Mwanakijiji ndio umemtoa...hata kama sisi tusingechangia kichwa cha habari kilikuwa tosha kumfukua toka huko mafichoni. Halafu umeona sasa hivi anajiita Truth....kuna kipindi kule bcstimes.com alikuwa anajiita Ukweli...

 

[Mwana Wa Maryam]

Kwa maoni yangu mi nadhani hoja hapa ni ingenuity na si IQ. Mambo ya IQ yanahusiana mno na mambo ya darasani ambayo kuna ushahidi wa kuridhisha kuwa hakuna race iliyo zaidi ya nyenzake ktk hilo. Sasa unaweza ukakuta mtu mwenye IQ kubwa na vile vile ni ingenious. Kuwa ingenious siyo lazima uwe na IQ kubwa (tukifuata mbinu za kitaaluma zinazotumika kupimia) na mtu huyu anaweza akafeli vibaya ktk hizo test za kupima IQ. Oxford Advanced Learner's dictionary ina define ingenuity hivi: "the talent for solving problems in a clever original way" In Africa we have a bunch of problems. Do we have the talent to solve them in a clever original way or we look for the west to come and solve them for us?

Mjadala huu umewagusa sana kwa sababu maneno hayo yamesemwa na mzungu na anaonekana mbaguzi. Je anayesema angekuwa mwafrika mwenzetu tungejibu vipi?

Dr. Malima Bundara alitoa kitabu Waafrika ndivyo walivyo. Mjadala wa kitabu chake haujawa mrefu katika forum zetu. Lakini anayo-uliza yangeulizwa na mtu mweupe basi mjadala wa ubaguzi ungezuka.

Vile vile kuna tofauti kati ya IQ na Maarifa ingawaje vyote vinaonekana sawa katika mjadala huu. Watu mnatoa mfano wa Nyerere na JK kulinganisha IQ zao. Nyerere alikuwa na maarifa mengi kwa sababu ya kusoma sana lakini hatujuhi IQ score yake. Hivyo kuna uwezekano mkubwa muuza nyanya kariakoo akawa na IQ kuliko Nyerere. Kusoma sana hakuongezi IQ kinachoongezeka ni maarifa.

Vilevile wanafunzi wa kiafrika kufanya vizuri katika vyuo vikuu ni kitu cha kawaida ni asilimia ndogo sana ya idadi ya wananchi. Na kutokana na nafasi ndogo wanafunzi wa Kiafrika wanasoma kwa juhudi kubwa na ushindani hili kupata nafasi za kusoma vyuoni. Mwanafunzi kutoka katika nchi zilizoendelea hana ushindani wa kupata nafasi. Nafasi yake ya kusoma kile anachotaka hipo tayari na anachotakiwa ni kutimiza kiwango cha chini cha kukubalika kujiunga na chuo. Hivyo kutumia mafanikio ya mitihani ya wanafunzi kupima kiwango cha IQ si sahihi. Mitihani inapima maarifa na sio IQ. Kuna mtu anatumia wiki kujiandaa na mtihani na mwingine anatumia saa moja. Na inawezekana yule aliyetumia saa moja kujiandaa, akasoma vile vitavyokuja kwenye mtihani na akafaulu vizuri kuliko aliyetumia wiki.

Studies zinazotoka sasa zinaonyesha kuwa displine inasaidia sana katika maendeleo ya kimaarifa na kipato. Mtu mwenye displine na akiwa na IQ ya kundi la kawaida anauwezo mkubwa wa kufanikiwa kuliko mwenye Super-IQ ambaye hana displine. Albert Einstein hakuonyesha sana upeo wake akiwa shuleni kwa sababu hakuwa na displine ya kufuata sana kile asichokipenda.

Alan Turing mmoja wa wavumbuzi wa computer na mwanasayansi aliyeweza ku-decode mashine ya kutuma ujumbe wa siri wa majeshi ya kijerumani (Enigma Machine) wakati vya pili vya dunia alifeli katika mtihani wa kwanza wa kujiunga na chuo kikuu. Na alifeli kwa sababu alijibu maswali kwa kutumia njia zake mwenyewe na hakufuata displine zilizokubali. Mwaka uliofuatia alipita baada ya kufuata yaliotakiwa.

You are what you eat. Kuna ukweli mkubwa kuwa tunapozaliwa wote nafasi tuna sawa. Lakini mtoto anayezaliwa na mama ambaye ana matatizo ya kupata chakula anakuwa katika nafasi mbaya kuliko yule katika mazingira mazuri. Ukuwaji wa mtoto unaanza akiwa tumboni na afya ya mama yake inachangia katika makuzi yake.

Waafrika hatuwezi kujitetea kuwa tuna akili nzuri kwa sababu tulijenga ma-Pyramid huko Misri. Wakati Pyramids zinajengwa, Delta za mto Nile zilikuwa ni sehemu zenye rutuba kubwa sana duniani. Wanaosoma vitabu vya dini wanakumba utabiri wa Yusufu aliyomwambia Faraoh kuwa katika miaka saba ya nehema akiba ya chakula iwekwe kwani itafuatiwa na miaka saba ya ukame na njaa. Hivyo mazingira yao yalisababisha wao kuendelea.

Sehemu kubwa ya Tanzania haijafikia uzalishaji wa chakula na mazingira yalipo Misri miaka 3000 iliyopita. Constant struggle ya kutafuta chakula na matibabu inatuweka katika mazingira mabaya ya sisi kutoweza kutumia vipaji na uwezo wetu kisawasawa. Hivyo mtu atakayesema kuwa watanzania wana IQ ndogo nitamkubalia kwa kiwango fulani kwa sababu juhudi zinazofanyika hili tuwe na mazingira mazuri hazipo.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Hivi IQ inapimwaje?

 

[Kijakazi]

Hivi IQ inapimwaje?

Hilo swali hakuna mtu atakujibu humu mimi nimeuliza mapaka nikakata tamaa, na ndio maana nasema humu watu wengi hawana akili kwa maana wanapapalikia vitu ambavyo wala hawavielewi, ukiwauliza maswali hawayajibu, na wanachagua kaneno ulikoandika na kugeuza ndio ulichomaanisha, kama mtu hawezi kutumbia hiyo iq inapimwaje je atawezaje kukaa hapa na mkundu wake na kutuambia kuwa waafrika wana iq ndogo kama hata hajui manake nini, Je wewe huoni kua unajadili na watu wenye uwezo mdogo wa kiakili?

 

[MzalendoHalisi]

Hilo swali hakuna mtu atakujibu humu mimi nimeuliza mapaka nikakata tamaa, na ndio maana nasema humu watu wengi hawana akili kwa maana wanapapalikia vitu ambavyo wala hawavielewi, ukiwauliza maswali hawayajibu, na wanachagua kaneno ulikoandika na kugeuza ndio ulichomaanisha, kama mtu hawezi kutumbia hiyo iq inapimwaje je atawezaje kukaa hapa na mkundu wake na kutuambia kuwa waafrika wana iq ndogo kama hata hajui manake nini, Je wewe huoni kua unajadili na watu wenye uwezo mdogo wa kiakili?

Kijakazi unaweza tu kutoa maoni yako bila kuwa na lugha chafu ya matusi. Saa ingine lugha chafu ya matusi inapotumika unecessarily inaashiria inferiority complex.
Sasa wewe maneno mengi??? je IQ unapimwaje? Cut the story short!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Hivi IQ inapimwaje?

Unauliza vipimo gani, vilivyowekwa na wazungu au waafrika/ weusi?

 

[Kijakazi]

Unauliza vipimo gani, vilivyowekwa na wazungu au waafrika/ weusi
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Unauliza vipimo gani, vilivyowekwa na wazungu au waafrika/ weusi
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

hebu toka huko hujui hata jinsi ya kukwoti halafu unataka mdahalo wa IQ...go figure!!!!

 

[Mwana Wa Maryam]

Hilo swali hakuna mtu atakujibu humu mimi nimeuliza mapaka nikakata tamaa, na ndio maana nasema humu watu wengi hawana akili kwa maana wanapapalikia vitu ambavyo wala hawavielewi, ukiwauliza maswali hawayajibu, na wanachagua kaneno ulikoandika na kugeuza ndio ulichomaanisha, kama mtu hawezi kutumbia hiyo iq inapimwaje je atawezaje kukaa hapa na mkundu wake na kutuambia kuwa waafrika wana iq ndogo kama hata hajui manake nini, Je wewe huoni kua unajadili na watu wenye uwezo mdogo wa kiakili?

Watu wengi wanashindwa kujibu kwa sababu wanashindwa kutofautisha mafanikio ya darasani na maana ya IQ. Na wengi wanachukua mtu aliyefanikiwa shuleni na kuwa na honors basi ana IQ kubwa. Hayo ni maarifa, jitihada na displine ya kusoma inaweza kumfanya mtu yoyote kufanikiwa katika maarifa.

Waandaji wa test za IQ ni Psychologists. Na test hizi hutakiwi kijiandaa na matokeo yake hayabadiliki sana. Ziko standard tests na zipo online test. Nenda kwa psychologist na uliza test ya IQ na utapewa au atakwambia wapi uende kufanya test.

vile vile unaweza hawa jamaa wanatoa habari nzuri tu kuhusu IQ http://www.mensa.org/index0.php?page=10

Mtoto wa ndugu yangu IQ test yake ilikuwa 126 akiwa shule ya vidudu na zaidi ya umri wake. Lakini sasa ni mvuta bangi na hakumaliza shule kwa sababu shule ilikuwa ina-bore tu. Hivyo watu wenye IQ kubwa au ambao walikuwa na uwezo wa kuwa na IQ kubwa wanapatikana katika fani zote za maisha. Wako wezi, waendesha madaladala na wataalamu.

 

[Kijakazi]

Watu wengi wanashindwa kujibu kwa sababu wanashindwa kutofautisha mafanikio ya darasani na maana ya IQ. Na wengi wanachukua mtu aliyefanikiwa shuleni na kuwa na honors basi ana IQ kubwa. Hayo ni maarifa, jitihada na displine ya kusoma inaweza kumfanya mtu yoyote kufanikiwa katika maarifa.

Waandaji wa test za IQ ni Psychologists. Na test hizi hutakiwi kijiandaa na matokeo yake hayabadiliki sana. Ziko standard tests na zipo online test. Nenda kwa psychologist na uliza test ya IQ na utapewa au atakwambia wapi uende kufanya test.

vile vile unaweza hawa jamaa wanatoa habari nzuri tu kuhusu IQ http://www.mensa.org/index0.php?page=10

Mtoto wa ndugu yangu IQ test yake ilikuwa 126 akiwa shule ya vidudu na zaidi ya umri wake. Lakini sasa ni mvuta bangi na
hakumaliza shule kwa sababu shule ilikuwa ina-bore tu. Hivyo watu wenye IQ kubwa au ambao walikuwa na uwezo wa kuwa na IQ kubwa wanapatikana katika fani zote za maisha. Wako wezi, waendesha madaladala na wataalamu.

Asante sana dada maryamu...............

 

[Mwana Wa Maryam]

Asante sana dada maryamu...............

Mwana wa Maryamu maana yake mtoto wa Maryam. Mama yangu jina lake Mary(amu) lakini mimi ni dume la kutosha.

 

[The Truth]

I think the bottom line is African countries were not ready for independence from colonial powers. The argument that European colonialism ruined Africa is not entirely correct. During colonialism, African countries had good governance, viable economies, sound infrastructure, sound social services, order was kept, etc. Europeans built schools, hospitals, roads, farming estates etc that for the most part benefited Africans. Then it came the independence movement all across Africa. Europeans were removed from power and African leaders took over. Boy, what a mess they created. Just about every African country went down the drain. Everything from economic instabilities to civil wars to starvation happened in Africa.

However now in an ironic twist of fate, African countries are begging Europeans to return as investors. But this time the bargaining chips are all in European hands. The contracts are negotiated in 90% and 10% in favor of Europeans. Africans complain about these contracts, Europeans say either accept the 10% deal or starve. LOL! What a pickle Africans have found themselves in. Some Africans grow even more frustrated and line at the embassies of the same Europeans they removed 50 years ago begging for Visas to live in their countries. Some African leaders still do not learn this lesson to this day. Mugabe ejects White farmers that supported the economy and fed the people. The country's economy plummets to over 1000% inflation rate. A Zimbabwean millionaire is worth about one Euro!! Amazing indeed, people are eating rats just to keep from starving. Some Africans never learn perhaps deep down they can't run their own affairs.

Africa remains the poorest region in the world today. Who is to blame? European colonialism? Globalization? Read my posts and you will conclude it is Africans themselves that are to blame. Professor Watson has a point. Call him a racist all you want. The facts and reality are hard to ignore.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

I think the bottom line is African countries were not ready for independence from colonial powers. The argument that European colonialism ruined Africa is not entirely correct. During colonialism, African countries had good governance, viable economies, sound infrastructure, sound social services, order was kept, etc. Europeans built schools, hospitals, roads, farming estates etc that for the most part benefited Africans. Then it came the independence movement all across Africa. Europeans were removed from power and African leaders took over. Boy, what a mess they created. Just about every African country went down the drain. Everything from economic instabilities to civil wars to starvation happened in Africa.

However now in an ironic twist of fate, African countries are begging Europeans to return as investors. But this time the bargaining chips are all in European hands. The contracts are negotiated in 90% and 10% in favor of Europeans. Africans complain about these contracts, Europeans say either accept the 10% deal or starve. LOL! What a pickle Africans have found themselves in. Some Africans grow even more frustrated and line at the embassies of the same Europeans they removed 50 years ago begging for Visas to live in their countries. Some African leaders still do not learn this lesson to this day. Mugabe ejects White farmers that supported the economy and fed the people. The country's economy plummets to over 1000% inflation rate. A Zimbabwean millionaire is worth about one Euro!! Amazing indeed, people are eating rats just to keep from starving. Some Africans never learn perhaps deep down they can't run their own affairs.

Africa remains the poorest region in the world today. Who is to blame? European colonialism? Globalization? Read my posts and you will conclude it is Africans themselves that are to blame. Professor Watson has a point. Call him a racist all you want. The facts and reality are hard to ignore.

See Raj, sometimes I like you because you tell it like it is. Only when you start calling us 'evolutionary throwbacks and the like' that's when I have a problem. Otherwise, keep telling the Truth. Nothing in what you said is innacurate or wrong. Pure truth!!!

 

[Steve Dii]

Finally, the man behind the furore resigns....

Race row DNA scientist quits lab

His comments led event organisers to cancel his appearances
A Nobel laureate who claimed Africans were less clever than Europeans has retired from his post at an American research institution.
James Watson, 79, and the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory in New York announced his departure on Thursday.

The DNA pioneer triggered an international furore over his remarks in a British newspaper interview.

In his retirement statement, Dr Watson said his decision was "more than overdue" because of his age.

The scientist added: "The circumstances in which this transfer is occurring, however, are not those which I could ever have anticipated or desired."

Suspended

Eduardo Mestre, chairman of the board of Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, said in a statement: "The board respects his decision to retire at this point in his career."

The laboratory, based in Long Island, suspended him after his comments appeared in the Sunday Times Magazine of London on 14 October.


Dr Watson helped unravel the structure of DNA


Profile: Dr James Watson

He was quoted as saying he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really".

He said that while he hoped everyone was equal, "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true".

The Chicago-born academic also said people should not be discriminated against on the basis of race, because "there are many people of colour who are very talented".

Speaking engagements were cancelled in the aftermath of the interview's publication. He later apologised for the comments.

Dr Watson was a joint winner in 1962 of the Nobel Prize for discovering the structure of DNA, the molecule that lies at the heart of heredity in living organisms.

Source: BBC News.

SteveD.