Uraia wa waTutsi !

[kambitza]

ukiona damu ujue mnyama kachinjwa, ukweli unauma koba rwanda ni lazima irudi kwa wenyewe tu, binadamu hawezi tawaliwa na m..e..n..d..e hata siku moja. Uhuru wa kweli rwanda mnajaribu kuuchelewesha tu lakini time will beep soon

Hii comment imenisikitisha tafadhari msibaguane. nyinyi ni ndugu wote ni wa Rwanda ijengeni nchi yenu kwa maelewano zungumzeni vizuri kwa faida ya vizazi vyenu.

 

[jMali]

Bwana Jmali,Hapa tunaongelea maisha yawatu waliokufa, ndio maana sometimes reactions zinakuwa kali:Ningependa kuongerea point by point kama ulivyo bainisha:Kwanza inawezekana wewe sio mu NyaRwanda, ila nimekuwa forced kukuita hivyoa manake, your interest na thread ambazo unapost kila mara unaonyesha kwamba you have something ithching you zaidi ya kukataa uonevu nashangaa hata program ya nd`UmunyaRwanda unaifahamu! cha muhimu sio kwamba wewe ni MunyaRwanda au cha muhimu ni threads na ideology ambayo unajaribu kuipenyeza forcefully kila mara unapo post thread hapa jukwaani😛ili:Sijui nimakusudi au kutoelewa, ukijaribu kutofautisha wa Tutsi waliokuwa wamekimbia nchi na wale waliokuwa wamebaki nchini Rwanda:Kweli Rwanda ilikuwa chini ya mfalme, kama zilivyokuwa pande nyingi tu za Afrika kipindi hicho,kwa hiyo hiyo haiwezi kuwa sababu:fact ya kwamba wa mTutsi ndio alikuwa mfalme ni kwasababu ufalme ulikuwa katika njia ya hertance, manake Baba akiwa mfalme, then the first born anakuwa mfalme pindi tu baba yake akifaliki, this was common to all Kingdoms around this region:Wazungu walipofika walikuta nchi iko chini ya mfalme, kwa taarifa yako hii issue ya Tutsi and Hutu wao ndio waliifanya kuwa makabila, kabla ilikuwa class division, wafugaji walikuwa wakiitwa WaTutsi,Wakulima wakiitwa Wahutu, na haikuwa kabila ndio wengi walikuwa wakiachana na kazi za ukulima na kuanza ufugaji, pindi tu ukifikisha ng`ombe zaidi ya 10 hapohapo tayari ulikuwa unaingia into Tutsi class:Kwa maoni yako ni kwamba wa Tutsi si wanya Rwanda, na ndio maana ukitoa mifano yako unawalinganisha na wazungu!?kwamba rwanda ilitawariwa na wazungu +waTutsi hii nikupotosha:Ingekuwa hivyo then kayibanda mhutu asingeweza kuwa Raisi kama Wa Tutsi wangekuwa na support ya mzungu:Siongerei mauaji ya siku mia moja tu, mauaji yalianza tangu mwaka 1961, pale wa tutsi walipokimbizwa kutoka nchi yao Kumbuka Kagame pia alizaliwa nchini Rwanda kipindi hicho akiwa mtoto mdogo, ndio maana nimesema si sahihi kutofautisha wa Tutsi waliotokea Uganda Tanzania, etc na wale walio baki Rwanda kipindi hicho:Kilichotokea ni kwamba wahutu wakisaidiwa na Belgium waliwakimbiza wa Tutsi:Sababu ya mzungu kumusaidia muHutu kipindi hicho sinyingine ila ni kwasababu wa Tutsi ambao walikuwa viongozi walikuwa wameandikia UN wakiomba independence, kitu ambacho hakikufurahisha mkoloni;Another big issue ambayo nitapenda unijibu, manake baada ya jibu lako nitapost speeches na video evidences:Unakubali kwamba Genocide ilikuwa planned kabla hata ya kutunguliwa kwandege?Unakubali kwamba kuna mauaji mengine dhidi ya wa Tutsi yalifanywa kabla hata ya kutunguliwa kwa ndege?Are you sure kwamba ndege ya habyarimana ilitunguriwa na RPF?harafu nadhani utatoa evidences, manake na mimi nina evidences zinazoonyesha kwamba ndege hiyo haikutunguriwa na majeshi ya RPF:Hivi mapigano kuanza mwaka 1990 kati ya majeshi ya habyarimana na yale ya RPF unaweza kusema kwanini, RPF iliamua tu kushambulia bila sababu yoyote?Hivi Arusha agreement kati ya RPF na serikali ya Habyarimana ilikuwa ikiongerea nini hasa?kama kweli RPF ilikuwa haina uhusiano wowote na Rwanda?Samahani kwa kutumia mtindo wa kuuliza ila nadhani itasaidia kuonyesha ukweli halisi:Genocide against Tutsi haina utata wowote, it is well known by the International communities including UN:Neno Genocide against Rwanda lilitumiwa kwa mala ya kwanza na Mwalimu Nyerere akiwa nchini South Africa kwenye mkutano na ma Raisi wengine wa Afrika, na sio kweli kwamba ilikuwa ni campaign ya Kagame:Watu waliokufa rwanda wanajulikana kwa majina, hivyo kusema kuna utata, kwa mafuvu sio kweli, na hii nimojawapo ya ideologies zinazokuwa spread by Genocide denials:Calling a spade a spade ni kwamba wa Hutu waliua wa Tutsi, pale wa Tutsi walipokuwa wakijaribu kujihami majeshi ya srikali yalikuwa yanaingiria:labda mwisho ni kuulize kama ikitokea ukawa raisi wa Rwanda leo utafanya nini?Kwa kufualia post zako ni kwamba utawafukuza wa Tutsi wote, sasa sijui utawapelka wapi:What i know ni kwamba, Wa Tutsi w Rwanda ni wa NyaRwanda 100% kama vile walivyo wa hutu, na lazima waishi kwa amani na majirani zao na serikali inasaidia katika hilo, ila kwasasa what i see ni kwamba wananchi wa Rwanda tayari wamesha sahau tofauti zao:raia wa KinyaRwanda wanachagua viongozi wao kulingana na uwezo na wala sio urefu wa pua, meaning hawaangalii kama huyu ni mTutsi au Mhutu,na Kiongozi anayechaguliwa, anaapa kuongoza nch kwa masilahi ya nchi na sio kwa masilahi ya kabila fulani:

1. Ni wapi ambapo nimeonyesha interest nyingine zaidi ya kupinga uonevu. Ni fact ipi katika thread yangu ambayo unakanusha? kuwa muwazi, provide a link. Hapa JF tunaongea kwa sources sio tuhuma za jumla jumla. Ndi umunyarwanda mbona hata wewe unaijua? Hizi ni propaganda za kawaida tu tunazisoma kila siku kwenye East african etc. Hata mtoto mdogo kijijini Tanzania by now anajua kuwa Kigali 'ni mji msafi'.

2. Hivi wewe unaujua ufalme au unausikia, tena ufalme wa kiafrika! Unavyoongea mtu anaweza kudhani ufalme ni mfumo fulani hivi poa tu. Hebu tafuta kujua wafalme wa kitutsi walikuwa wanafanyaje wahutu, ndio utaelewa kwa nini ilizaliwa hutu power ideology (by the way mimi siisupport hii ideology, but i understand, ukiwa oppressed long enough utageuka chizi tu one day).

3. Hakuna sababu yoyote ya msingi iliyofanya RPF kushambulia Rwanda kijeshi kama ipo wewe tuambie. RPF walikuwa wanamuwakilisha nani humo Rwanda, nobody! For all intents and purposes hawa ni waganda kabisa, wametumia tu ethnicity yao kuvamia nchi jirani. Ni kama vile wamasai watanzania wapindue kenya wakijifanya kutetea maslahi ya wamasai wa Kenya. Hoja ni kwamba it was illegal, against internatioal laws. RPF ni kikundi cha kijeshi toka Uganda, sio kikundi cha jeshi toka Rwanda. wapiganaji wake wote walikuwa askari wa jeshi la Uganda. Makundi ya kwanza kabisa kushambulia Rwanda yaliongozwa na salim saleh (mdogo wake Museveni)!

4. you are right it was genocide against rwandans, sasa hebu niambie kwa nini kagame aliibadili iwe genocide against tutsis alone? kwa nini isingeendelea kuitwa genocide against rwandans? kilibadilika nini toka 94 mpaka leo.

5. kikundi cha survivors wa genocide kama sikosei IBUKa walifanya research ya nyumba hadi nyumba kutafuta waliokufa kwenye genocide, wakati huo wao wenyewe walidhani kuwa watutsi ndio pekee waliouwawa, kwa mshangao wao idadi ya wahutu ikazidi watutsi, serikali ya kagame ikatupilia mbali ile program ya kuhesabu hesabu, so you are right majina yalijulikana swali ni ya nani yalizidi?
Ndio maana Ingabire leo anafungwa kwa ku-simply suggest kwamba wahutu waliokufa kwenye 'genocide' wawe included kwenye sherehe za maombolezo ya genocide unajua kwa nini? The day watakapotambuliwa rasmi, majina si yatakuja, familia zao si zitajitokeza? Ndipo hapo the world will know kwamba kumbe actually wahutu wengi zaidi ndio walikufa, halafu litazuka swali lingine, nani aliwaua?

6. Quote: "kama ikitokea ukawa raisi wa Rwanda leo utafanya nini?Kwa kufualia post zako ni kwamba utawafukuza wa Tutsi wote, sasa sijui utawapelka wapi"
Jibu: Hivi ni wapi nimekupa impression kama hiyo katika post yangu yoyote ile, tafadhali toa reference. Huu woga ulionao ndio silaha kubwa ya kagame anayotumia kupata support toka wa watutsi. Nayo ni kueneza uzushi kama huu kuwa mtu yoyote asiye mtutsi hatakiwi kutawala.
Mimi nikiwa rais wa Rwanda leo (nasisitiza mimi ni Mtanzania). Kwanza nitashitaki wote waliohusika kwenye uhalifu wa kivita kuanzia na members wote wa RPF, na vile vile wote walioshiriki kwa upande wa FAR, interahamwe na yoyote yule bila kujali kabila. Pia nitaachilia huru wafungwa wote waliofungwa kidhalimu na kagame kama victoire ingabire, nitamrudisha Laurent Nkundabatware DRC akashitakiwe kwa makosa yake n.k.

 

[timbilimu]

A great thinker knows kwamba wikipedia ni encyclopedia huru ambayo kila mtu anaweza ku-edit! Na vile vile anajua kuwa Rwanda ina resources nyingi including international PR firms zenye kazi hizi za ku-edit vyanzo hivi, so unless unapoint kwenye source ambayo credibility yake haina utata ....anyway nina-qoute baadhi ya vitu interesting kutoka the same source ambayo wewe ume-provide:

"In 1990, the Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF), a rebel group composed mostly of Tutsi refugees, invaded northern Rwanda from Uganda in an attempt to defeat the Hutu-led government. They began the Rwandan Civil War, fought between the Hutu regime, with support from Francophone Africa and France,[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP] and the RPF, with support from Uganda. This exacerbated ethnic tensions in the country. In response, many Hutu gravitated toward the Hutu Power ideology, with the prompting of state-controlled and independent Rwandan media."

Fatilia mahali ambapo nimebold:

1. Jeshi la kitutsi limevamia rwanda ili tu kupindua " a hutu-led goverment" (kwa maana nyingine serikali ya watu, maana wahutu ndio >80%, kwa hiyo hakukuwa na cha ajabu kama serikali ilikuwa "hutu-led"). Hapa genocidaire ni nani kagame or the peaceful people of Rwanda? Kwa nini wahutu waliouawa hapa wasiwe wahanga wa genocide? maana your own source says the only motive ilikuwa kupindua wahutu! Lakini watutsi waliouawa 94 wao ni genocide, how come?

"They began the Rwandan Civil War" : umeona hapo? RPF started the Rwandan civil war not Habyarimana, RPF! Hii ni fact ambayo hamtaki kuikumbuka kuwa there was a war! Je hatutakiwi kumshtaki Kagame na jeshi lake kwa kuanzisha vita kinyume na sheria za kimataifa?

"in response many Hutu gravitated toward the Hutu Power ideology,", Unaona sasa? exactly what i said kuwa wahutu hawakuwa na tatizo na watutsi, lakini walikuwa forced kuwa na tatizo kutokana na aggressions za kagame. The same thing in Congo DRC kupitia M23, tungeacha waendelee lazima kungekuwa na 'genocide' nyingine, halafu ungekuja hapa JF kusema joseph kabila mbaya!

Mkuu Jmall kwa kipande hicho unaamini kwamba mauaji ya kimbari yaliyo tekelezwa Rwanda yalikua sahihi kwasababu utawala wa Wahutu ulikuwa umechokozwa na akina Kagame?!

 

[timbilimu]

1. Jina lake limenitoka labda kuna wanaokumbuka hii kesi: tuliwahi kuwa na Balozi wetu Nigeria miaka fulani kumbe Mnyarwanda tulimpomshtukia alienda kwao Rwanda akapewa zinga la cheo

kuiwakilisha Rwanda UN!

Kama unamzungumzia Balozi Bandora huyu bado ni Mtanzania,nyumbani kwake Mbezi beach Dsm,ingawa anafanya kazi ktk shirika moja la UN nje ya nchi. Mke wake mwenyeji wa mkoa wa Kilimanjaro!

Kama kweli wewe ni Mtanzania nakuomba ujiepushe na makundi ya propaganda hizi za Kihutu na Kitutsi ambazo miezi ya karibuni zimehamia JF na watu wenye malengo mabaya. Mauaji ya kimbari ktk nchi ya Rwanda sijambo la kufurahia ama kuanzisha kejeli.

Ni maoni yangu kwamba licha ya matatizo yote ya Kagame na hata tuhuma kwamba ndiye aliamrisha kutunguliwa kwa ndege ya rais Habyarimana bado ni mtu sahihi wa kuongoza Rwanda. Kwangu mimi namuona ni Mtutsi mwenye msimamo wa wastani. Kama angekuwa ni extremist Rwanda ingeshuhudia mauaji mengine makubwa ya kulipiza kisasi. Na amehakikisha anadeal na Watutsi wenzake wenye msimamo mkali kama anavyo deal na extremists wa Kihutu!

 

[jMali]

Kama unamzungumzia Balozi Bandora huyu bado ni Mtanzania,nyumbani kwake Mbezi beach Dsm,ingawa anafanya kazi ktk shirika moja la UN nje ya nchi. Mke wake mwenyeji wa mkoa wa Kilimanjaro!

Kama kweli wewe ni Mtanzania nakuomba ujiepushe na makundi ya propaganda hizi za Kihutu na Kitutsi ambazo miezi ya karibuni zimehamia JF na watu wenye malengo mabaya. Mauaji ya kimbari ktk nchi ya Rwanda sijambo la kufurahia ama kuanzisha kejeli.

Ni maoni yangu kwamba licha ya matatizo yote ya Kagame na hata tuhuma kwamba ndiye aliamrisha kutunguliwa kwa ndege ya rais Habyarimana bado ni mtu sahihi wa kuongoza Rwanda. Kwangu mimi namuona ni Mtutsi mwenye msimamo wa wastani. Kama angekuwa ni extremist Rwanda ingeshuhudia mauaji mengine makubwa ya kulipiza kisasi. Na amehakikisha anadeal na Watutsi wenzake wenye msimamo mkali kama anavyo deal na extremists wa Kihutu!

1. Ninaweza kukuonyesha nyumba ya familia ya Rais kabila Tanzania vile vile, does that make him Tanzanian? Musinga bandora timothy alivuliwa ubalozi kwa sababu gani back then tofauti unayoijua wewe kinyume na ya uraia? Mbona unanitajia mkewe anatoka kilimanjaro? would that change the fact kwamba bwana Musinga Thomas Bandora alikuwa legally myarwanda wakati ni balozi wa Tanzania? Kama uraia anao basi aliomba baada sio kabla!

Nakuwekea vipande vya habari zake hapa chini ikifuatiwa na link kwenda kwenye article nzima.

"The government says it has established that a former Tanzania High Commissioner to Nigeria, Mr Timothy Bandora, and a former District Commissioner and member of the Chama cha Mapinduzi (CCM) National Executive Committee, Mr Jenerali Ulimwengu, are Rwandans."

"Many former Tanzanian citizens like Mr Kamanzi are now prominent persons in Kigali. They include, among others, Dr L. W. Rutayisire, deputy governor of the Central Bank of Rwanda, who lectured at Dar es Salaam University and served on the board of directors of the Bank of Tanzania. Some of Mr Kamanzi's relatives are still in Tanzania, including his brother, who is employed by the Bank of Tanzania."

Mwingine huyo hapo juu umeona ee? Huko Rwanda huwa hakuna watu wa kuchukua hizi kazi mpaka wapewe wanyarwanda wanaoshtukiwa nchi za watu?

Soma hii habari yake kwa ukamili hapa: tzna


Pili, Kagame whether he is an extremist or otherwise anaonyeshwa na historia yake si vinginevyo. Mtu aliyepindua serikali halali kwa kufanya mauaji ya kimbari akiwa raia wa nchi nyingine anakuwaje mtu sahihi kuongoza nchi? Naheshimu mtazamo wako ila na wewe heshimu wangu.

 

[jMali]

Mkuu Jmall kwa kipande hicho unaamini kwamba mauaji ya kimbari yaliyo tekelezwa Rwanda yalikua sahihi kwasababu utawala wa Wahutu ulikuwa umechokozwa na akina Kagame?!

Hapana hata kidogo. siamini katika aina yoyote ya mauaji kuwa sahihi! mauaji ya kimbari yaliyofanywa dhidi ya watutsi yaliyofanywa na baadhi ya askari FAR pamoja na interahamwe wakiongozwa na mtutsi Robert kajuga katika siku 100 za 94 hayakuwa sahihi, kama ambavyo mauaji ya wahutu nchini Rwanda kwa miaka minne yaliyofanywa na kagame na jeshi lake hayakuwa sahihi na vile vile mauaji ya kimbari ya kagame na jeshi lake dhidi ya wakimbizi wahutu nchini Congo hayakuwa sahihi.

 

[Ngongo]

Mkuu jMali unatoa dose kubwa bila kuzingatia uzito wa mgonjwa na ugonjwa wenyewe.Mkuu wangu hili darsa wapende wasipende watachota elimu siku za baadae zitawasaidia.Haiwezekani katika hali ya mvutano wa kikabila baina ya Tutsis na hutus Rais Kagame ashinde urais kwa zaidi ya asilimia 90%.

1. Sihitaji propaganda za ndi Umunyarwanda. Mimi nafahamu tofauti ya mhutu na interahamwe toka kitambo. Nyinyi ndio mnaoamua kutumia maneno haya interchangeably when ever it suits you. Kinachowafanya media zenu (new times rwanda) kumpachika uhutu first lady wetu ni nini, kama sio chuki zenu dhidi ya wahutu? kwani if angekuwa mhutu so what?
Interahamwe imeua watutsi sawa sikatai. Lakini mbona waanzilishi wake walikuwa watutsi, na rais wake alikuwa mtutsi aliyejifanya mhutu na alishiriki kikamilifu kwenye mauaji? Ndiyo amehukumiwa, lakini the question is kwanini ALIONGOZA mauaji dhidi ya watutsi wenzie? what did he have to gain? How many other interahamwe members were actually tutsis pretending to be hutu if rais mwenyewe anayeamua tukachinje nyumba ipi alikuwa mtutsi? Je is it not possible kwamba kwamba ukiacha extremist hutus, interahamwe pia ilijaa watutsi wahalifu waliotumia opportunity ya vita kufanya uhalifu dhidi ya watutsi wenzao (looting, raping etc)? Tatizo badala ya kujibu maswali haya we unaleta matusi. Are these not valid questions worthy to be answered by a great thinker as you pretend to be?

2. "kwetu hakuna uhutu au ututsi": hii imeshaonekana wazi kuwa ni sera yenu wachache ya kuziba watu midomo kuwa minorities mmehodhi madaraka. Nilishatoa mfano kuwa hapa Tanzania haiwezekani litokee kundi la waasi la kihindi lipindue nchi halafu lilete rais mhindi, waziri mkuu mhindi, wakuu wa majeshi wahindi, jeshi lote wahindi, polisi wote, wakuu wa mikoa, wakurugenzi wa idara zote muhimu, mabalozi n.k woooote muhimu wawe wahindi (tena wahindi toka Uganda, sio Tanzania). Unadhani serikali hii ya kihindi ikiweka sheria kali ya kukataza watu kujadili uafrika na uhindi itakuwa ni kwa sababu ya kudumisha umoja wa watanzania au kuendeleza udikteta wao?

Hii sera yenu ingefaa sana kama mngeimplement Arusha accord, lakini mkamtungua ndege ya rais, mkapindua serikali, mkahodhi madaraka, halafu sasa mnadai eti "we are all rwandans" what hypocrisy! The only reason kwa nini hakuna fujo leo ni kwa sababu mna jeshi tu baasi, lakini moyoni watutsi wana woga kwa sababu they know it's just a matter of time kabla wahutu hawajadai haki zao, and it won't be pretty. Let's be honest, tuache propaganda na rhetorics, kilichosababisha mapinduzi ya wahutu miaka ya late 50' ni nini?

Zimbabwe kuna waafrika (majority) na wazungu(minorities, former colonial masters). would it make sense kwa serikali ya ian smith ya wakati ule kudai kuwa eti "there is only one zimbabwe, no african no white"? Hata mwehu angeona kwa nini wanasema hivyo. where is the onness when only one tribe holds all the reigns of power?

Tazama Burundi with its history almost identical to yours (belgians, tutsis and hutus). Mbona watutsi na wahutu huko sasa wanaelewana? waliresolve vipi issues zao? ni kupitia peace talks sio ubabe na ideologies za kifalme za kip.umbavu p.umb.avu.
Wahutu walikuwa tayari kushare madaraka kupitia arusha accord nyinyi mkatungua ndege ya rais wao, mkavamia nchi, mkapindua... leo hii mnashauriwa kufanya mazungumzo na wale wale waliokuwa tayari kuzungumza na nyinyi when they didn't even have to (they were the gov, while you RPA/RPF were external aggressors/terrorists) mnatishia ku-hit watu wanaoshauri (kikwete)!

Even worse, mnatengeneza situation kwa jirani zenu. Watutsi DRC hawafikii hata 1% ya population nzima (congo ina makabila zaidi ya 250 tutsi ni moja wapo tu), lakini mnafadhili vikundi vya waasi, mnapenyeza watu wenu humo kama kabarebe, ntanganda (ex-RPA soldiers) n.k. M23 walishateka Goma na wakatishia kwenda kinshasa kuchukua nchi nzima. Obviously, ingetokea Makenga kapindua DRC, angesema vile vile "there is no tutsi, bemba, baluba...only congolese" angepiga marufuku watu kujadili kuwa you people are less than 1% but control 99%. Leo hii Ntaganda huko ICC anajitetea kwa kinyarwanda, hajui lugha yoyote ya taifa kati ya NNE za DRC! You try to comprehend that!

 

[Iselamagazi]

1. Ni wapi ambapo nimeonyesha
interest nyingine zaidi ya kupinga uonevu. Ni fact ipi katika thread
yangu ambayo unakanusha? kuwa muwazi, provide a link. Hapa JF tunaongea
kwa sources sio tuhuma za jumla jumla. Ndi umunyarwanda mbona hata wewe
unaijua? Hizi ni propaganda za kawaida tu tunazisoma kila siku kwenye
East african etc. Hata mtoto mdogo kijijini Tanzania by now anajua kuwa
Kigali 'ni mji msafi'.

2. Hivi wewe unaujua ufalme au unausikia, tena ufalme wa kiafrika!
Unavyoongea mtu anaweza kudhani ufalme ni mfumo fulani hivi poa tu. Hebu
tafuta kujua wafalme wa kitutsi walikuwa wanafanyaje wahutu, ndio
utaelewa kwa nini ilizaliwa hutu power ideology (by the way mimi
siisupport hii ideology, but i understand, ukiwa oppressed long enough
utageuka chizi tu one day).

3. Hakuna sababu yoyote ya msingi iliyofanya RPF kushambulia Rwanda
kijeshi kama ipo wewe tuambie. RPF walikuwa wanamuwakilisha nani humo
Rwanda, nobody! For all intents and purposes hawa ni waganda kabisa,
wametumia tu ethnicity yao kuvamia nchi jirani. Ni kama vile wamasai
watanzania wapindue kenya wakijifanya kutetea maslahi ya wamasai wa
Kenya. Hoja ni kwamba it was illegal, against internatioal laws. RPF ni
kikundi cha kijeshi toka Uganda, sio kikundi cha jeshi toka Rwanda.
wapiganaji wake wote walikuwa askari wa jeshi la Uganda. Makundi ya
kwanza kabisa kushambulia Rwanda yaliongozwa na salim saleh (mdogo wake
Museveni)!

4. you are right it was genocide against rwandans, sasa hebu niambie kwa
nini kagame aliibadili iwe genocide against tutsis alone? kwa nini
isingeendelea kuitwa genocide against rwandans? kilibadilika nini toka
94 mpaka leo.

5. kikundi cha survivors wa genocide kama sikosei IBUKa walifanya
research ya nyumba hadi nyumba kutafuta waliokufa kwenye genocide,
wakati huo wao wenyewe walidhani kuwa watutsi ndio pekee waliouwawa, kwa
mshangao wao idadi ya wahutu ikazidi watutsi, serikali ya kagame
ikatupilia mbali ile program ya kuhesabu hesabu, so you are right majina
yalijulikana swali ni ya nani yalizidi?
Ndio maana Ingabire leo anafungwa kwa ku-simply suggest kwamba wahutu
waliokufa kwenye 'genocide' wawe included kwenye sherehe za maombolezo
ya genocide unajua kwa nini? The day watakapotambuliwa rasmi, majina si
yatakuja, familia zao si zitajitokeza? Ndipo hapo the world will know
kwamba kumbe actually wahutu wengi zaidi ndio walikufa, halafu litazuka
swali lingine, nani aliwaua?

6. Quote: "kama ikitokea ukawa raisi wa Rwanda leo utafanya nini?Kwa
kufualia post zako ni kwamba utawafukuza wa Tutsi wote, sasa sijui
utawapelka wapi"
Jibu: Hivi ni wapi nimekupa impression kama hiyo katika post yangu
yoyote ile, tafadhali toa reference. Huu woga ulionao ndio silaha kubwa
ya kagame anayotumia kupata support toka wa watutsi. Nayo ni kueneza
uzushi kama huu kuwa mtu yoyote asiye mtutsi hatakiwi kutawala.
Mimi nikiwa rais wa Rwanda leo (nasisitiza mimi ni Mtanzania). Kwanza
nitashitaki wote waliohusika kwenye uhalifu wa kivita kuanzia na members
wote wa RPF, na vile vile wote walioshiriki kwa upande wa FAR,
interahamwe na yoyote yule bila kujali kabila. Pia nitaachilia huru
wafungwa wote waliofungwa kidhalimu na kagame kama victoire ingabire,
nitamrudisha Laurent Nkundabatware DRC akashitakiwe kwa makosa yake
n.k.

Hapo kwenye red sikubaliani nawe.

 

[Iselamagazi]

RPF iliundwa 1988 nchini Uganda, shabaha kubwa ikiwa ni kukusanya na kurudisha tena Wanyarwanda waliokuwa uhamishoni na pia kuunda serikali
mpya ya Rwanda.
RPF iliundwa na wakimbizi wa Kitutsi waliokimbilia Uganda na wengi wao walikuwa wakitumikia NRA ya Museveni.

 

[Iselamagazi]

Mkuu jMali kama kusudi ni kutumia ethnicity yao, kwanini hawakuvamia Uganda yenyewe walipokuwa wanaishi?

 

[timbilimu]

Hapana hata kidogo. siamini katika aina yoyote ya mauaji kuwa sahihi! mauaji ya kimbari yaliyofanywa dhidi ya watutsi yaliyofanywa na baadhi ya askari FAR pamoja na interahamwe wakiongozwa na mtutsi Robert kajuga katika siku 100 za 94 hayakuwa sahihi, kama ambavyo mauaji ya wahutu nchini Rwanda kwa miaka minne yaliyofanywa na kagame na jeshi lake hayakuwa sahihi na vile vile mauaji ya kimbari ya kagame na jeshi lake dhidi ya wakimbizi wahutu nchini Congo hayakuwa sahihi.

Unajua ndani ya maelezo yako marefu unayoandika hapa ndiyo yanakuonyesha wewe ni mtu wa aina gani. Nikiwa ni mtu ninaye fahamu jinsi gani mnavyohasimiana sipati shida kuelewa malengo yako.

 

[timbilimu]

1. Ninaweza kukuonyesha nyumba ya familia ya Rais kabila Tanzania vile vile, does that make him Tanzanian? Musinga bandora timothy alivuliwa ubalozi kwa sababu gani back then tofauti unayoijua wewe kinyume na ya uraia? Mbona unanitajia mkewe anatoka kilimanjaro? would that change the fact kwamba bwana Musinga Thomas Bandora alikuwa legally myarwanda wakati ni balozi wa Tanzania? Kama uraia anao basi aliomba baada sio kabla!

Nakuwekea vipande vya habari zake hapa chini ikifuatiwa na link kwenda kwenye article nzima.

"The government says it has established that a former Tanzania High Commissioner to Nigeria, Mr Timothy Bandora, and a former District Commissioner and member of the Chama cha Mapinduzi (CCM) National Executive Committee, Mr Jenerali Ulimwengu, are Rwandans."

"Many former Tanzanian citizens like Mr Kamanzi are now prominent persons in Kigali. They include, among others, Dr L. W. Rutayisire, deputy governor of the Central Bank of Rwanda, who lectured at Dar es Salaam University and served on the board of directors of the Bank of Tanzania. Some of Mr Kamanzi's relatives are still in Tanzania, including his brother, who is employed by the Bank of Tanzania."

Mwingine huyo hapo juu umeona ee? Huko Rwanda huwa hakuna watu wa kuchukua hizi kazi mpaka wapewe wanyarwanda wanaoshtukiwa nchi za watu?

Soma hii habari yake kwa ukamili hapa: tzna


Pili, Kagame whether he is an extremist or otherwise anaonyeshwa na historia yake si vinginevyo. Mtu aliyepindua serikali halali kwa kufanya mauaji ya kimbari akiwa raia wa nchi nyingine anakuwaje mtu sahihi kuongoza nchi? Naheshimu mtazamo wako ila na wewe heshimu wangu.

Nikiulize swali dogo hivi nini sifa za mtu kuitwa Mtanzania? Huo mfano wa Kabila unaotoa hapo ni kitu tofauti na kesi za akina Bandora,Ulimwengu,Castico na Amani. Watu wa aina ya Kabila walikuepo wengi hapa wakati wa awamu ya kwanza na kiasi awamu ya pili

Binafsi nimesoma na watu wa aina ya Kabila pale Muhimbili Primary sch. ktk miaka ya mwisho wa sabini kuja mpaka ktkt ya themanini. Lakini lazima utambue serikali ilikua imewapa hifadhi na ulinzi!

 

[lusembamajula]

Jamani kwa mtizamo wangu coni kama ni mda muafaka wa kukumbushana mauaji ya kimbali kule rwanda tuwaache wanyarwanda waijenge nchi yao izi ideologies za hutu na tutsi tuziache na afrika isongembele

 

[Koba]

1. Ninaweza kukuonyesha nyumba ya familia ya Rais kabila Tanzania vile vile, does that make him Tanzanian? Musinga bandora timothy alivuliwa ubalozi kwa sababu gani back then tofauti unayoijua wewe kinyume na ya uraia? Mbona unanitajia mkewe anatoka kilimanjaro? would that change the fact kwamba bwana Musinga Thomas Bandora alikuwa legally myarwanda wakati ni balozi wa Tanzania? Kama uraia anao basi aliomba baada sio kabla!

Nakuwekea vipande vya habari zake hapa chini ikifuatiwa na link kwenda kwenye article nzima.

"The government says it has established that a former Tanzania High Commissioner to Nigeria, Mr Timothy Bandora, and a former District Commissioner and member of the Chama cha Mapinduzi (CCM) National Executive Committee, Mr Jenerali Ulimwengu, are Rwandans."

"Many former Tanzanian citizens like Mr Kamanzi are now prominent persons in Kigali. They include, among others, Dr L. W. Rutayisire, deputy governor of the Central Bank of Rwanda, who lectured at Dar es Salaam University and served on the board of directors of the Bank of Tanzania. Some of Mr Kamanzi's relatives are still in Tanzania, including his brother, who is employed by the Bank of Tanzania."

Mwingine huyo hapo juu umeona ee? Huko Rwanda huwa hakuna watu wa kuchukua hizi kazi mpaka wapewe wanyarwanda wanaoshtukiwa nchi za watu?

Soma hii habari yake kwa ukamili hapa: tzna


Pili, Kagame whether he is an extremist or otherwise anaonyeshwa na historia yake si vinginevyo. Mtu aliyepindua serikali halali kwa kufanya mauaji ya kimbari akiwa raia wa nchi nyingine anakuwaje mtu sahihi kuongoza nchi? Naheshimu mtazamo wako ila na wewe heshimu wangu.

Spin it whatever you want, wewe ni hater tuu wa watutsi na kumbuka anybody can come with millions reasons to justify anything, you singled out hao watu hapo juu for one and only one reason... TUTSI,shame on you, Kazi yako ni kueneza chuki tuu juu ya watutsi ndio maana huchoki posting garbage and seems you are in someone payroll, utawapata ignorant fools and extremist wenzako ndio wanakuamini,na ------ kama wewe ndio mliosababisha genocide itokee na hata humu jf wakikuachia na huu upuuzi wako you can make some damage,post zako doesn't belong here at jf Kuna extremist websites peleka kule ila one thing for sure you are not going to win or gain anything from hate propaganda and it will backfire 100%.

 

[murutongore]

1. Ni wapi ambapo nimeonyesha interest nyingine zaidi ya kupinga uonevu. Ni fact ipi katika thread yangu ambayo unakanusha? kuwa muwazi, provide a link. Hapa JF tunaongea kwa sources sio tuhuma za jumla jumla. Ndi umunyarwanda mbona hata wewe unaijua? Hizi ni propaganda za kawaida tu tunazisoma kila siku kwenye East african etc. Hata mtoto mdogo kijijini Tanzania by now anajua kuwa Kigali 'ni mji msafi'.

2. Hivi wewe unaujua ufalme au unausikia, tena ufalme wa kiafrika! Unavyoongea mtu anaweza kudhani ufalme ni mfumo fulani hivi poa tu. Hebu tafuta kujua wafalme wa kitutsi walikuwa wanafanyaje wahutu, ndio utaelewa kwa nini ilizaliwa hutu power ideology (by the way mimi siisupport hii ideology, but i understand, ukiwa oppressed long enough utageuka chizi tu one day).

3. Hakuna sababu yoyote ya msingi iliyofanya RPF kushambulia Rwanda kijeshi kama ipo wewe tuambie. RPF walikuwa wanamuwakilisha nani humo Rwanda, nobody! For all intents and purposes hawa ni waganda kabisa, wametumia tu ethnicity yao kuvamia nchi jirani. Ni kama vile wamasai watanzania wapindue kenya wakijifanya kutetea maslahi ya wamasai wa Kenya. Hoja ni kwamba it was illegal, against internatioal laws. RPF ni kikundi cha kijeshi toka Uganda, sio kikundi cha jeshi toka Rwanda. wapiganaji wake wote walikuwa askari wa jeshi la Uganda. Makundi ya kwanza kabisa kushambulia Rwanda yaliongozwa na salim saleh (mdogo wake Museveni)!

4. you are right it was genocide against rwandans, sasa hebu niambie kwa nini kagame aliibadili iwe genocide against tutsis alone? kwa nini isingeendelea kuitwa genocide against rwandans? kilibadilika nini toka 94 mpaka leo.

5. kikundi cha survivors wa genocide kama sikosei IBUKa walifanya research ya nyumba hadi nyumba kutafuta waliokufa kwenye genocide, wakati huo wao wenyewe walidhani kuwa watutsi ndio pekee waliouwawa, kwa mshangao wao idadi ya wahutu ikazidi watutsi, serikali ya kagame ikatupilia mbali ile program ya kuhesabu hesabu, so you are right majina yalijulikana swali ni ya nani yalizidi?
Ndio maana Ingabire leo anafungwa kwa ku-simply suggest kwamba wahutu waliokufa kwenye 'genocide' wawe included kwenye sherehe za maombolezo ya genocide unajua kwa nini? The day watakapotambuliwa rasmi, majina si yatakuja, familia zao si zitajitokeza? Ndipo hapo the world will know kwamba kumbe actually wahutu wengi zaidi ndio walikufa, halafu litazuka swali lingine, nani aliwaua?

6. Quote: "kama ikitokea ukawa raisi wa Rwanda leo utafanya nini?Kwa kufualia post zako ni kwamba utawafukuza wa Tutsi wote, sasa sijui utawapelka wapi"
Jibu: Hivi ni wapi nimekupa impression kama hiyo katika post yangu yoyote ile, tafadhali toa reference. Huu woga ulionao ndio silaha kubwa ya kagame anayotumia kupata support toka wa watutsi. Nayo ni kueneza uzushi kama huu kuwa mtu yoyote asiye mtutsi hatakiwi kutawala.
Mimi nikiwa rais wa Rwanda leo (nasisitiza mimi ni Mtanzania). Kwanza nitashitaki wote waliohusika kwenye uhalifu wa kivita kuanzia na members wote wa RPF, na vile vile wote walioshiriki kwa upande wa FAR, interahamwe na yoyote yule bila kujali kabila. Pia nitaachilia huru wafungwa wote waliofungwa kidhalimu na kagame kama victoire ingabire, nitamrudisha Laurent Nkundabatware DRC akashitakiwe kwa makosa yake n.k.

You must have a lot of free time on your hands. Please continue. I am enjoying your "pumba" every moment you write here. I have some contacts in the publishing industry. I can connect you so that you can write a book about the garbage that you are spilling here. Hey, I can suggest a good title for your book " The Garbage according to Jeean Marie"...lol

 

[murutongore]

Nikiulize swali dogo hivi nini sifa za mtu kuitwa Mtanzania? Huo mfano wa Kabila unaotoa hapo ni kitu tofauti na kesi za akina Bandora,Ulimwengu,Castico na Amani. Watu wa aina ya Kabila walikuepo wengi hapa wakati wa awamu ya kwanza na kiasi awamu ya pili

Binafsi nimesoma na watu wa aina ya Kabila pale Muhimbili Primary sch. ktk miaka ya mwisho wa sabini kuja mpaka ktkt ya themanini. Lakini lazima utambue serikali ilikua imewapa hifadhi na ulinzi!

Mkuu, huyu jamaa yuko blinded by his hatred kwa watutsi kiasi kwamba haoni kwamba anaji contradict mwenyewe. Na the more watu wanampa forum na nafasi kama hii, basi anajiona kuwa ni some "expert" on Rwanda. Unfortunately, expertisim yake inaishia kwenye Google tu. So, mimi nina enjoy googled comments zake ambazo hazina mantiki hata kidogo. Hawa ndio wale tunawaita "good at everything, best at nothing". Lakini tumpe fora hii....he is very entertaining.

 

[murutongore]

Unajua ndani ya maelezo yako marefu unayoandika hapa ndiyo yanakuonyesha wewe ni mtu wa aina gani. Nikiwa ni mtu ninaye fahamu jinsi gani mnavyohasimiana sipati shida kuelewa malengo yako.

Asante sana mkuu. Atleast great thinkers wamaanza kumuona for what he real is. Genocidaire or sympathiser.

 

[murutongore]

Kama unamzungumzia Balozi Bandora huyu bado ni Mtanzania,nyumbani kwake Mbezi beach Dsm,ingawa anafanya kazi ktk shirika moja la UN nje ya nchi. Mke wake mwenyeji wa mkoa wa Kilimanjaro!

Kama kweli wewe ni Mtanzania nakuomba ujiepushe na makundi ya propaganda hizi za Kihutu na Kitutsi ambazo miezi ya karibuni zimehamia JF na watu wenye malengo mabaya. Mauaji ya kimbari ktk nchi ya Rwanda sijambo la kufurahia ama kuanzisha kejeli.

Ni maoni yangu kwamba licha ya matatizo yote ya Kagame na hata tuhuma kwamba ndiye aliamrisha kutunguliwa kwa ndege ya rais Habyarimana bado ni mtu sahihi wa kuongoza Rwanda. Kwangu mimi namuona ni Mtutsi mwenye msimamo wa wastani. Kama angekuwa ni extremist Rwanda ingeshuhudia mauaji mengine makubwa ya kulipiza kisasi. Na amehakikisha anadeal na Watutsi wenzake wenye msimamo mkali kama anavyo deal na extremists wa Kihutu!

Great Response from a Great Thinker

 

[kabavamwo]

1. Ninaweza kukuonyesha nyumba ya familia ya Rais kabila Tanzania vile vile, does that make him Tanzanian? Musinga bandora timothy alivuliwa ubalozi kwa sababu gani back then tofauti unayoijua wewe kinyume na ya uraia? Mbona unanitajia mkewe anatoka kilimanjaro? would that change the fact kwamba bwana Musinga Thomas Bandora alikuwa legally myarwanda wakati ni balozi wa Tanzania? Kama uraia anao basi aliomba baada sio kabla!

Nakuwekea vipande vya habari zake hapa chini ikifuatiwa na link kwenda kwenye article nzima.

"The government says it has established that a former Tanzania High Commissioner to Nigeria, Mr Timothy Bandora, and a former District Commissioner and member of the Chama cha Mapinduzi (CCM) National Executive Committee, Mr Jenerali Ulimwengu, are Rwandans."

"Many former Tanzanian citizens like Mr Kamanzi are now prominent persons in Kigali. They include, among others, Dr L. W. Rutayisire, deputy governor of the Central Bank of Rwanda, who lectured at Dar es Salaam University and served on the board of directors of the Bank of Tanzania. Some of Mr Kamanzi's relatives are still in Tanzania, including his brother, who is employed by the Bank of Tanzania."

Mwingine huyo hapo juu umeona ee? Huko Rwanda huwa hakuna watu wa kuchukua hizi kazi mpaka wapewe wanyarwanda wanaoshtukiwa nchi za watu?

Soma hii habari yake kwa ukamili hapa: tzna


Pili, Kagame whether he is an extremist or otherwise anaonyeshwa na historia yake si vinginevyo. Mtu aliyepindua serikali halali kwa kufanya mauaji ya kimbari akiwa raia wa nchi nyingine anakuwaje mtu sahihi kuongoza nchi? Naheshimu mtazamo wako ila na wewe heshimu wangu.

Great thinker. Hawa ndugu zake na kagame wameishiwa na hoja wamebaki tu kutukana. Unafanya vizuri sana kutuelimisha watz juu ya udhalimu wa Hawa Tutsis. Shame on them

 

[kabavamwo]

Unajua ndani ya maelezo yako marefu unayoandika hapa ndiyo yanakuonyesha wewe ni mtu wa aina gani. Nikiwa ni mtu ninaye fahamu jinsi gani mnavyohasimiana sipati shida kuelewa malengo yako.

Try to argue from your mind like Jmal and not from feelings of your heart