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Public Debate on Land Grabbing in Tanzania

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Augustine Moshi, Jul 4, 2007.

  1. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    I note that there are investors who want us to give them large tracts of land so that they can grow sugar cane. They would like to produce ethanol for use as engine fuel. I have seen, in our papers, that they want as much as 4,000 hectares each and that this land must come from Bagamoyo and Kisarawe districts.

    We want investment, but we cannot hand over huge chunks of our inheritance for it. We have land that is extremely good for growing the food that we eat in those districts, and we must keep it that way. If someone wants us to grow sugar cane there for now (before cars change completely), we will do so, with their cooperation, but the land must remain ours.

    Let the government assist the investors so that we reach an understanding whereby each villager gets to plant some sugarcane, with the assistance of the investors, on ten hectares or so. Each villager will look after the crop and sell the entire produce to the investor, at pre-arranged prices. This way, the villagers will not have to GIVE WAY to the investor. They will become participants in the project rather than cheap farm hands that work on land that they once owned.

    I would say that 4,000 hectares of prime agricultural land is worth a lot of money. I would value it at around $500 million. We cannot simply disinherit ourselves of our land like that. Carl Peters tried it earlier. He gave us salt in return. Someone else wants to do it again, and this time, all we will get is the privilege of becoming very lowly paid, and despised, farm hands on a master's estate.

    Any foreign investment that requires the use of large tracts of land should be a cooperative venture that lets us keep the land. If that cannot be arranged, then we would rather continue to grow cassava and a few other things on our land. That, I submit, is better that handing it over to foreigners.

    Augustine Moshi
     
  2. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

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    Hao wana lao jambo natumaini serikali bado inakumbuka jinsi Chavda alivyotufanyia miaka sio mingi iliyopita. Swala hili sio dogo na vile vile hatuna magari mengi yanayotumia hiyo ethonal, vile vile tunategemea kupata mafuta hawa wanataka hizo sehemu tayari wan geological surveys wanafahamu nini kipo chini. Watch out guys!
     
  3. KadaMpinzani

    KadaMpinzani JF-Expert Member

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    hahaaa, naona tunarudi tena katika ile mada ya mheshimiwa magufuli. kwani who's responsible kuhusiana na hivi viwanja ?
     
  4. omarilyas

    omarilyas JF-Expert Member

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    Ngoja nimsaidie kazi mkswahili...

    Hivi wenyeji wa bagamoyo bado wanamiliki hiyo ardhi maeneo hayo Ama kina Moshi ndio washakua wenyeji sasa?

    hiyo bei ni ya ardhi ya wapi? Hollywood ama bagamoyo? Acha uchochezi...kama una argument leta lakini sio kwa ujanja huu. Ama hao so called investors wanaitwa kina abdul na hassan na sio kina Mushi?

    Nachokoza tu.....
     
  5. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #5
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    anachozungumzia mwalimu nadhani ni zoezi la wawekezaji fulani ambao leo hii wanazunguka huko Rufiji wakijaribu kushawishi vijiji 21 kuwauzia ardhi ambayo wawekezaji hao kwa ajili ya kilimo cha "miwa ya mafuta"...

    tatizo ni kuwa wawekezaji hao wamekuwa wakizunguka vijijini na kujaribu kuingia mikataba na halmashauri za vijiji ili wawaachie ardhi hiyo bila ya kuhusisha vyombo vya serikali. Jamaa wakishakubaliwa na vijiji hivyo hiyo sehemu ya ardhi wawekezaji ndio wanaenda TIC kukamilisha taratibu za kuanza uwekezaji.. msije kushtuka mkasikia wanakijiji huko Rufiji wahamishwa kupisha mwekezaji.... mmeonywa!
     
  6. O

    Ogah JF-Expert Member

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    Mwl. Moshi.

    Good advise to the GoT. I LOVE paragraph 3 & 5 most. tukienda kwa mtizamo huo, hata mwananchi wa kawaida atafaidika
     
  7. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Ndugu Zanguni,

    Hawa wawekezaji nasikia ni kutoka Sweden, na Australia. Naomba Kadampinzani ajue wanachotaka sio viwanja, ni ardhi kubwa sana. Sijui kama mwenzangu umeshaona shamba la hekta 4,000: ni kubwa sana. Na thamani ya ardhi ninayozungumzia sio ya sasa tu. Ni ya huko tuendako.

    Tanzanianjema hututakii mema. Mbona unaleta chokochoko za kikabila? Tuko kweli akina Moshi ambao tumehamia huko Bagamoyo, lakini ni wananchi wenzako. Kwani vihamba vyetu lazima viwe Kilimanjaro tu? Baba wa Taifa alituasa tangu zamani kwamba hawezi kupanua ule mlima, kwa hivyo tuhame. Wengi tumekubali huo wito, na mimi ni mmoja wao. Kwa sasa, nina kihamba Bagamoyo, lakini ni viekari vichache tu vya kutosha kulima chakula cha wanangu.

    Namshukuru Mzee Mwanakijiji kwa onyo lake. Tusipaparikie Wazungu au wawekezaji wowote. Tusitoe uridhi wetu kwa peremende. Ardhi ndiyo mali tuliyobaki nayo. Hatuna pesa lakini ni matajiri wa ardhi. Tukiiachia tutabaki masikini hohehahe kabisa.

    Mwishowe, naomba mtu anayeweza awaambie TIC kwamba uwekezaji utakaokubalika ni wa wananchi kuwezeshwa, na hao wawekezaji, kulima hiyo miwa kwa wingi na kuuza kwenye viwanda vya wawekezaji. Nadhani hilo linafanyika Morogoro. Yaani wafaidike, na sisi tufaidike vile vile. Tutajirike pamoja. Hatutaki kuwa MANAMBA wao. TIC msituuze.

    Augustine Moshi
     
  8. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    Ethanol energy project landless

    2007-07-02 09:17:48
    By Patrick Kisembo

    A firm seeking to invest in an ethanol energy project has been finding it hard to secure a big enough piece of land for the cultivation of sugarcane, the main raw material in the business, Minerals and Energy minister Nazir Karamagi has said.

    He said in a recent interview with this paper that the prospective investors are already in Tanzania ready for work but have been held back by the snag.

    `They are searching for land for sugarcane farming. Currently, securing a large piece of land is a big problem,` observed the minister.

    He said the aspiring investors are obliged to compensate the people currently occupying the land in Coast Region�s Bagamoyo and Rufiji districts earmarked for the project, adding: `It has not been easy accessing that land. It requires extensive negotiations and consultations between the local residents and the investors.`

    `A number of foreign firms intending to invest in thermal energy projects have been approaching the government.

    At times they have been coming in droves to study areas where they believe they could profitably invest, but acquisition of land is a big hindrance,` said the minister.

    He said he knew of three serious companies, one from each of South Africa, Sweden and the US, which have expressed interest in investing in the development of thermal energy but all had been frustrated by failure to get access to land.

    The ethanol energy project was scheduled to get going in September this year but the land problem is likely to force a postponement of the operations.

    Bagamoyo District Executive Director Rhoda Nsemwa confirmed when asked for comment on the matter that many foreign companies were interested in investing in sugarcane farming in the district.

    `But there are legal procedures one must follow to acquire land for such investments. There is no short-cut and they cannot start without following these procedures, including compensating local residents,`she explained.

    However, she said the district authorities were working on the modalities `to ensure that the would-be investors duly compensate the local residents before starting operations.

    `The prospective investors and the locals are expected to conclude negotiations on the use of the land in question next year, paving the way for the ethanol project to take off,` Nsemwa pointed out.

    Elaborating, she noted: `These people (investors) need huge tracts of land which would force the authorities to relocate many local residents while ensuring that the latter are duly compensated.`

    For his part, Tanzania Investment Centre Executive Director Emmanuel ole Naiko said work on the ethanol energy project was progressing well.

    He added that several other companies have started working on their investments elsewhere in the country, also admitting that most have been facing problems acquiring land for large-scale sugarcane farming.

    The TIC chief explained that over 800 hectares have been studied and earmarked for the ethanol project in Bagamoyo and Rufiji districts but the investors need about 50 times as much.

    The ethanol project investors told President Jakaya Kikwete during his official visit to Sweden in February this year that they were interested in cultivating sugarcane in the two Coast Region districts.

    The project would employ over 700,000 people when fully operational, they said.

    Part of the plan is for the ethanol produced to be used as alternative energy in running motor vehicles, replacing the most expensive petrol and diesel.

    During talks with President Kikwete in Sweden, SEKAB Executive Director Per Carstedt said: `If all things go well, we expect to start sugarcane farming in September in Bagamoyo and later on move to the Rufiji delta.` SEKAB are strategic ethanol project investors.

    * SOURCE: Guardian
     
  9. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    Well Mzee Moshi

    Kwa mujibu wa CTI Chief hao jamaa wanataka 800 hectares times 50 = 40,000...!!!

    Hawa ni wa kuogopwa kuliko UKOMA.
     
  10. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Kwanza serikali inatakiwa iachane na dhana kwamba mwekezaji ni mkombozi.
     
  11. M

    Mgumu Senior Member

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    Hawa wawekezaji inabidi tuwaangalie kwa macho mawili la sivyo watatupeleka babaya.

    mara zote wanakuja na miradi yenye matumaini ila mwisho wa siku tunabaki kuumia, chukua mfano wa songo songo gas project , watawala walitupa matumaini kuwa baada ya uzalishaji kuanza gharama ya nishati itapungua kwani gesi itatumika kuendesha mitambo, lakini kun taarifa kuwa huenda gharama za umeme zikapanda baada ya serikali kusitisha ruzuku kwa tanesco.

    Hali hii itaiendelea mpaka lini.....
     
  12. Kichuguu

    Kichuguu Platinum Member

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    Huo ndio ugonjwa ambao wanasisasa wetu waliopata tangu pale Nyerere alipofariki. Mwekezaji, mwekezaji, na mbaya zaidi ni kwamba mwekezaji huyo lazima awe mzungu! Kama ni mwafrika basi awe mwafrika mweupe(kaburu).
     
  13. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

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    Kila wanachokifanya wanataka kuhalalisha kwa kutumia jina la Mwalimu. Mwalimu alikuwa sio mbabaishaji kama wao wasiokuwa na misimamio madhubuti, kila kukicha ni skendo juu ya skendo lakini hakuna hata anayefukuzwa kazi kwa hujuma.

    Wabunge wakiuliza wananyamazishwa sasa utawala bora uko wapi?
     
  14. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi mwananchi nikienda wizarani leo nikasema nataka ekari 100 Bagamoyo au Rufiji, waziandikishe kwa jina langu, nilime mahindi nitapigwa danadana mpaka nichoke. Kaja mgeni kasema anataka ekari 40, 000 alime miwa na tayari Waziri Karimagi ameshamtafutia ekari 800! Jamani! Na ujue hayo mahindi ni muhimu kuliko hiyo miwa yao.

    Wote tunajua kwamba maeneo haya ya Pwani yemegundulika kuwa na gesi nyingi, na inaonekana hata mafuta yapo. Sasa kwa nini tuwape watu ekari 40,000, tuziandikishe ni zao kisheria, na wakati maeneo yenyewe yanaweza kuwa na mali nyingi sana?

    Rufiji na Bagamoyo kuna gesi ya kuendeshea magari tayari. Na TPDC wamesema kabla ya mwaka huu kwisha, watakuwa na kituo cha kuuzia gesi ya kuendeshea magari, na kubadili magari yatumie gesi, pale Ubungo. Hiyo ethanol ni kwa ajili ya wasio na gesi.

    Wako Wazungu wanasema "the adult African is just a big boy". Wanajua hawa wawekezaji wakitaja takwimu eti wataajiri watu laki saba basi akina Waziri Karimagi watawahangaikia mara moja! Kwanza kabisa, hatutaki watu wetu laki saba waache kuwa wenye mali na wawe manamba wa hawa mabwana.

    Kwenye nchi yenye gesi nyingi kama yetu, kutaka ardhi kubwa kwa uzalishaji wa miwa kwa ajili ya ethanol ni usanii. Baada ya kipindi kifupi, hawatazalisha miwa. Watabaki tu wenye ardhi kubwa yenye utajiri mwingi wa gesi na mafuta.

    Mwishowe, kama serikali itapuuza maoni yetu na kuwekeana mikataba na hawa watu, basi wasifanye mikataba ya siri. Na isiwe mikataba kama ya IPTL ambayo iko juu ya mahakama zetu.

    Augustine Moshi
     
  15. omarilyas

    omarilyas JF-Expert Member

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    Sasa nimeanza kukupata.

    Lakini vilevile nadhani tutakuwa wakweli kama sisi "wawekezaji" wa ndani kutoka maeneo mengine ya Tanzania tukaangalia ni jinsi gani ya kuwalinda wazawa wa maeneo hayo ili kuweza kuendelea kumiliki hiyo ardhi ambayo ukweli ndio kitu pekee walichonacho ambacho kinawapa imani ya kufaidika na utanzania wao.

    Tuwaangaliapo "wawekezaji" wa nje ni busara pia kuwaangalia "wawekezaji" wa ndani ambao kila kukicha wanawalaghai hao wenzangu na mimi huko kuwauzia ardhi yao kwa bei ya kutupa kuliko hiyo ambayo hao kutoka nje wanakuwa tayari kuwapa.Sana sana wanawapa hao hommies zake JK wanaishia kugeuzwa manamba kulinda mashamba yao wenyewe. hii sio haki pia.

    Tanzanianjema
     
  16. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Tanzanianjema,

    Sisi wenzenu tunaohamia kwenu kutokana na upungufu wa ardhi kwetu, ilibidi mtupatia ardhi bure. Msituuzie. Urithi wenu wa ardhi ni urithi wetu vile vile. Sisi ni Watanzania wenzenu, sio wageni.

    Kama inabidi tuwalipe kidogo, basi mpokee fidia kidogo, na tuwe majirani wenu. Sisi hatuwahamishi. Tunatafuta ekari chache kwa ajili yetu na familia zetu. Hatusemi waondoke watu watuachie ekari 40,000.

    Augustine Moshi
     
  17. omarilyas

    omarilyas JF-Expert Member

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    Kaka moshi,

    Nimekukubali...

    Tanzanianjema
     
  18. A

    August JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi nina shanga Serekali inavyo waachia Viongozoi wa Serekali za Vijiji Kuingia Mikataba ya Ardhi tena kubwa kubwa , wakati uwezo wa Ku-value na kujua kilichomo kwenye hizo ardhi hawajui.
    Eg ilikuwa kule kwenye Makaa ya Mawe / Na Chuma ambako Mwekezaji mmoja kawahonga wazee, huku NDC wanataka Mwingine basi kazi kwelikweli, nafikiri ni MM steel Rooling ya Gabachori moja hapo mjini
     
  19. Mr. Zero

    Mr. Zero JF-Expert Member

    #19
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    Ethanol can save Tanzania-envoy

    2007-07-06 09:06:48
    By Cynthia Stacey


    The outgoing Swedish Ambassador to Tanzania Torvald Akesson has said that ethanol from sugar cane could help the country reduce dependence on petroleum products.

    Akesson, who is set to depart for Mozambique to take up his position there said recently that Zambia, Mozambique and Tanzania, can learn from one another, vis a vis the new aid structures.

    Whilst it might be unpopular, he said they should raise more revenue, and ultimately become less aid dependant, both financially and mentally.

    Ambassador Akesson, whose daughter Sarah briefly worked in the Dar es Salaam City Council, under a Habitat project, said he had four wonderful years in Tanzania, and is pleased with what his country has achieved here.

    He said President Kikwete`s visit to Sweden in February this year, confirmed the strong relationship between the two countries.

    The visit made a strong case for Tanzania as a destination for investments and trade, he said, adding that he looked forward to seeing Swedish investments in large scale in the bio fuel production for the European market in the future.

    `Ethanol produced from sugar cane, for example, is possible as conditions here are very favourable,` he added.

    The envoy said financial support to the country should be provided in such a way that it re-enforces systems and structure.

    General budget support is the best form of development assistance to poor nations, he said.

    `This means giving funds direct to the Ministry of Finance, as opposed to earmarking them for a particular sector, as was the case before. It helps ensure that consequent programmes, are then locally, and not donor driven`, the envoy said.

    The Minister for Minerals and Energy Nazir Karamagi said recently firms seeking to invest in ethanol energy projects have been finding it hard to secure enough piece of land for the cultivation of sugarcane, the main raw material in the business.

    Karamagi said that prospective investors are already in Tanzania ready for work but have been held back by the snag.

    `They are searching for land for sugarcane farming. Currently, securing a large piece of land is a big problem,` observed the minister.

    He said the aspiring investors are obliged to compensate the people currently occupying the land in Coast Region`s Bagamoyo and Rufiji districts earmarked for the project, adding: `It has not been easy accessing that land.

    It requires extensive negotiations and consultations between the local residents and the investors.`

    `A number of foreign firms intending to invest in thermal energy projects have been approaching the government. At times they have been coming in droves to study areas where they believe they could profitably invest, but acquisition of land is a big hindrance,` said the minister.

    He said he knew of three serious companies, one each from South Africa, Sweden and the US, which have expressed interest in investing in the development of thermal energy but all, had been frustrated by failure to get access to land.
     
  20. Mr. Zero

    Mr. Zero JF-Expert Member

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    Ukitaka kuona manamba wanavyosota nenda TPC na Kirombero ukajioenee mwenyewe. Halafu tena wanataka kuemploy manamba wengine 700,000 kuwatesa?

    Just imagiene!! kama wataajiri manamba 700,000 halafu kila manamba akawa na mke moja then maisha ya watu 1,400,000 yatakuwa yameharibiwa. Then if you calculate further kama kila mmoja wao atakuwa na mtoto 1 then tunazungumzia maisha ya watu takiribani 2.4 million with no future.

    I think we do not need this type of investment, it is not wealth!!!! Bora tulime viazi kama Mangula.
     
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