Nini asili ya huu mtazamo katika jamii?

[Tiger]

Naam,

Lakini siwezi kuvihukumu kwa muhtasari wa kuangalia gamba.

When time and inclination permit, I find instructions even in reading (and watching) polemics.Sometimes they are better than an obscure crass Tarantino cinematographic homage to an even more obscure Humprhrey Bogart move from a movie of the 1940s.

That's why from time to time I like to reassure myself that "The Flat Earth Society" still exists.

Kuhoji ndo mwanzo wa ujuzi, ila tuhoji kwa mawazo yaliyo wazi. Sio unahoji huku una jibu unalolitaka, ukiona uchunguzi unakupeleka usikokutaka unapindisha habari mpaka upate jibu unalolitaka.

Ukweli utabaki kuwa hivyo hata kama nitajitahidi kuupindisha. Kama kuna facts nimezipinga, ziweke mezani.

 

[Tiger]

How comes, wanaume dunia nzima wakaamua kuanzisha "kamfumo kao" kandamizi bila hata kuwa na masiliano kati yao?
What can we learn from our "near species" kama sokwe mtu, how do they live, do they have the mfumo dume? why?

 

[Kaunga]

How comes, wanaume dunia nzima wakaamua kuanzisha "kamfumo kao" kandamizi bila hata kuwa na masiliano kati yao?
What can we learn from our "near species" kama sokwe mtu, how do they live, do they have the mfumo dume? why?

Hata not so near species twaweza jifunza tu, Lemurs, bonobos kwa mfano, majike ndio alphas pamoja na kuzaa na kunyonyesha watoto.

 

[Kiranga]

Ukweli utabaki kuwa hivyo hata kama nitajitahidi kuupindisha. Kama kuna facts nimezipinga, ziweke mezani.

"Hivyo" being?

 

[Kiranga]

Hata not so near species twaweza jifunza tu, Lemurs kwa mfano, majike ndio alphas pamoja na kuzaa na kunyonyesha watoto.

Any notion that a certain sex has to be alpha is self limiting, especially in this age when the brain is supposed to transcend whatever biological limitations are imposed.

Else, if you want to justify a thinly disguised reverse chauvinism nicely clothed under the garb of the biological study of near species, I can respect -despite the expose- your inner Machiavelli.

 

[Kiranga]

How comes, wanaume dunia nzima wakaamua kuanzisha "kamfumo kao" kandamizi bila hata kuwa na masiliano kati yao?
What can we learn from our "near species" kama sokwe mtu, how do they live, do they have the mfumo dume? why?

The notion kwamba wanaume waliamua kuanzisha kamfumo kao bila hata ya kuwa na mawasiliano kati yao ina pose premise kwamba inawezekana kulihitajika ka congress fulani hivi ili kuwa na kamfumo kao.

Kwanza si kweli kwamba haka kamfumo kako that universal. I pointed out notable exceptions, I am sure there are more.

Pili, wanaume wanafanya mengi dunia nzima, bila ya kukutana na kukubaliana. The presupposition that there is design somewhere at the basic level, from the outset, is overly presumptuous and even revisionist. That is not to say that chauvinism did and does not benefit from some deliberate structures - legislation in general and the suffrage movement in particular come to mind, there is a number of countries where women cannot vote up to today, see this Wisegeek entry on the subject- so while there is no denying some level of design in our time, this hardly proves a sophisticated level of design in prehistoric time.

Mwisho kabisa, tunarudi kule kule kwenye uchunguzi zaidi.

Inawezekana kabisa wanaume wako na levels kubwa zaidi za kemikali zinazochochea dominance zaidi, wakati wanawake wako zaidi na na kemikali zinazochochea consensus na kulea? This is not a statement, it is a line of inquiry.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

How comes, wanaume dunia nzima wakaamua kuanzisha "kamfumo kao" kandamizi bila hata kuwa na masiliano kati yao?
What can we learn from our "near species" kama sokwe mtu, how do they live, do they have the mfumo dume? why?

Kuna upande wa hormones pia. Sayansi inatuambia kwamba wanaume wana viwango vikubwa vya hormone ya kiume ambayo ni testosterone na wanawake wana estrogen kwa wingi zaidi.

Hizo hormones zinawajibika kwa kiasi kikubwa sana katika kujenga characteristics ambazo ziko tofauti kati ya wanawake na wanaume.

Kwa mfano, testosterone inawajibika katika kujenga misuli na kwa vile wanaume wana kiwango kikubwa cha hiyo hormone, ndiyo maana unakuta wanaume kwa kawaida au kwa wastani wana nguvu zaidi kuliko wanawake.

Hata aggressiveness nayo inachangiwa sana na hiyo hormone. Sasa jiulize, kati ya wanaume na wanawake, kwa wastani, ni wapi ambao wako aggressive zaidi.

Hivyo, siyo far-fetched hata kidogo kudhani kwamba hata huo so called mfumo dume ni jambo ambalo haliepukiki kutokana na jinsi ambavyo wanaume wako wired.

 

[Tiger]

The notion kwamba wanaume waliamua kuanzisha kamfumo kao bila hata ya kuwa na mawasiliano kati yao ina pose premise kwamba inawezekana kulihitajika ka congress fulani hivi ili kuwa na kamfumo kao.

Kwanza si kweli kwamba haka kamfumo kako that universal. I pointed out notable exceptions, I am sure there are more.

Pili, wanaume wanafanya mengi dunia nzima, bila ya kukutana na kukubaliana. The presupposition that there is design somewhere at the basic level, from the outset, is overly presumptuous and even revisionist. That is not to say that chauvinism did and does not benefit from some deliberate structures - legislation in general and the suffrage movement in particular come to mind, there is a number of countries where women cannot vote up to today, see this Wisegeek entry on the subject- so while there is no denying some level of design in our time, this hardly proves a sophisticated level of design in prehistoric time.

Mwisho kabisa, tunarudi kule kule kwenye uchunguzi zaidi.

Inawezekana kabisa wanaume wako na levels kubwa zaidi za kemikali zinazochochea dominance zaidi, wakati wanawake wako zaidi na na kemikali zinazochochea consensus na kulea? This is not a statement, it is a line of inquiry.

Pengine tunahiji kuifanyia kazi ya ziada hiyo "line of inquiry"

 

[Tiger]

Kuna upande wa hormones pia. Sayansi inatuambia kwamba wanaume wana viwango vikubwa vya hormone ya kiume ambayo ni testosterone na wanawake wana estrogen kwa wingi zaidi.

Hizo hormones zinawajibika kwa kiasi kikubwa sana katika kujenga characteristics ambazo ziko tofauti kati ya wanawake na wanaume.

Kwa mfano, testosterone inawajibika katika kujenga misuli na kwa vile wanaume wana kiwango kikubwa cha hiyo hormone, ndiyo maana unakuta wanaume kwa kawaida au kwa wastani wana nguvu zaidi kuliko wanawake.

Hata aggressiveness nayo inachangiwa sana na hiyo hormone. Sasa jiulize, kati ya wanaume na wanawake, kwa wastani, ni wapi ambao wako aggressive zaidi.

Hivyo, siyo far-fetched hata kidogo kudhani kwamba hata huo so called mfumo dume ni jambo ambalo haliepukiki kutokana na jinsi ambavyo wanaume wako wired.

Tuwalaumu wanaume kwakuwa hizo hormones?

 

[Kiranga]

Tuwalaumu wanaume kwakuwa hizo hormones?

Kuna wanaosema kwamba uelewa ni muhimu kuliko lawama na sifa.

Kukubali kuendeshwa na hormones ni kukubali kuwa mnyama. Kimsingi wanadamu ni wanyama, lakini kutumia ubongo zaidi kunatakiwa kutuondoa katika unyama na kutufanya tuongozwe na fikra zilizopevuka zaidi.

Tunavyokwenda huku kwenye cybernetics watu wanataka kuzi isolate genes zinazosababisha magonjwa fulani na kuzi neutralize, sitashangaa nikisikia kuna sindano/ kidonge cha kupunguza mfumodume.

Ila mjiandae kuwa na kina kaka kama kina dada.

Inanikumbusha science fiction story moja ya Arthur C. Clarke. Jamaa mwanasayansi kahangaika mpaka kapata dawa ya mafua (mafua hayana dawa mpaka leo, hii ni story tu). Basi watu wakafurahi dawa imepatikana, what a triumph.

Baada ya dawa kutumika kwa wingi, watu walioitumia wakaonekana wamepoteza sense of smell.

Dawa imeponya tatizo moja, imeleta jingine.

Such is the curse of scientific progress.

Kwa hiyo kama kuna vipanga wanafikiria kuondoa mfumodume kwa ndonge na sindano, challenge ni kuhakikisha hakuna negative effects, maana tunaweza kukuta dawa imepitiliza watu wamegeuka machele.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Tuwalaumu wanaume kwakuwa hizo hormones?

Sasa watalaumiwaje wakati hiyo hormone ni naturally occurring? Mfumodume si jambo la black and white tu. Lina gray area kubwa tu.

Cha msingi ni kwamba, kwa sababu tunajua hiyo hormone iko responsible na tabia nyingi za kiume na kwa vile binadamu tuna uwezo wa ku process mambo kwa kiwango cha juu, basi ni kujitahidi kutokuziendekeza zile tabia ambazo ni kandamizi.

Lakini kwa kweli sidhani kabisa kama mfumodume kwa ujumla wake unaweza kuondoshwa kwa sababu mambo mengine mengi tu ni asili ya viumbe vya kiume na kike pia.

Umeshawahi kuona ma bodybuilders wa kike? Unadhani wanaongeza nini kwenye miili yao ili wawe na misuli mikubwa iliyotuna vile? Na unajua kwa nini huwa wanapoteza baadhi ya female characteristics na kuanza kuonyesha characteristics za kiume?

Na unajua kwamba hata mifupa (skeleton) ya kiume ni tofauti na ya kike? Bone structure ya wanaume kwa wastani ni kubwa kushinda ile ya wanawake.

Hata jaw line ya kiume ni tofauti na ya kike. Na ndiyo maana hata kwenye full contact sports wanaume huwa wanashindana wao kwa wao na wanawake wao kwa wao.

 

[Tiger]

Kuna wanaosema kwamba uelewa ni muhimu kuliko lawama na sifa.

Kukubali kuendeshwa na hormones ni kukubali kuwa mnyama. Kimsingi wanadamu ni wanyama, lakini kutumia ubongo zaidi kunatakiwa kutuondoa katika unyama na kutufanya tuongozwe na fikra zilizopevuka zaidi.

Tunavyokwenda huku kwenye cybernetics watu wanataka kuzi isolate genes zinazosababisha magonjwa fulani na kuzi neutralize, sitashangaa nikisikia kuna sindano/ kidonge cha kupunguza mfumodume.

Ila mjiandae kuwa na kina kaka kama kina dada.

Inanikumbusha science fiction story moja ya Arthur C. Clarke. Jamaa mwanasayansi kahangaika mpaka kapata dawa ya mafua (mafua hayana dawa mpaka leo, hii ni story tu). Basi watu wakafurahi dawa imepatikana, what a triumph.

Baada ya dawa kutumika kwa wingi, watu walioitumia wakaonekana wamepoteza sense of smell.

Dawa imeponya tatizo moja, imeleta jingine.

Such is the curse of scientific progress.

Kwa hiyo kama kuna vipanga wanafikiria kuondoa mfumodume kwa ndonge na sindano, challenge ni kuhakikisha hakuna negative effects, maana tunaweza kukuta dawa imepitiliza watu wamegeuka machele.

"Nature at work" ukiona tunakuwa more civilised mpaka tunaanza kutibu vitu kama secondary sexual characters kana kwamba ni mapungufu, ujue extinction yetu, haiko mbali. Tujiandae kuipisha spicie nyingine.

 

[Tiger]

Sasa watalaumiwaje wakati hiyo hormone ni naturally occurring? Mfumodume si jambo la black and white tu. Lina gray area kubwa tu.

Cha msingi ni kwamba, kwa sababu tunajua hiyo hormone iko responsible na tabia nyingi za kiume na kwa vile binadamu tuna uwezo wa ku process mambo kwa kiwango cha juu, basi ni kujitahidi kutokuziendekeza zile tabia ambazo ni kandamizi.

Lakini kwa kweli sidhani kabisa kama mfumodume kwa ujumla wake unaweza kuondoshwa kwa sababu mambo mengine mengi tu ni asili ya viumbe vya kiume na kike pia.

Umeshawahi kuona ma bodybuilders wa kike? Unadhani wanaongeza nini kwenye miili yao ili wawe na misuli mikubwa iliyotuna vile? Na unajua kwa nini huwa wanapoteza baadhi ya female characteristics na kuanza kuonyesha characteristics za kiume?

Na unajua kwamba hata mifupa (skeleton) ya kiume ni tofauti na ya kike? Bone structure ya wanaume kwa wastani ni kubwa kushinda ile ya wanawake.

Hata jaw line ya kiume ni tofauti na ya kike. Na ndiyo maana hata kwenye full contact sports wanaume huwa wanashindana wao kwa wao na wanawake wao kwa wao.

Tumeumbwa tofauti sana mkuu, hata kwenye "mbogo" zetu inasemekana circuitry ya mwanaume na mwanamke ni tofauti.
"wamagharibi" walituletea sera za global warming, uzazi wa mpango wameleta wakiwa na vitu vingine nyuma yake, haki za mashoga, na mambo ya Beijing si bure. HIVI KWANINI TUSIHUKUMU UKATILI WOTE KWA MUJIBU WA SHERIA BILI KUANZA KUWEKA HAYA MAJINSIA thing?
Aaarrrgggg!

 

[Kiranga]

"Nature at work" ukiona tunakuwa more civilised mpaka tunaanza kutibu vitu kama secondary sexual characters kana kwamba ni mapungufu, ujue extinction yetu, haiko mbali. Tujiandae kuipisha spicie nyingine.

Wengine wanaweza kusema hata hayo maendeleo ya kisayansi ni "nature at work", nature imetupa mbongo za kuweza ku speed mambo kwa "gene therapy" kwa mfano.

Having said that, your cautious approach is not without warrant. Tayari kuna habari kwamba Wachina, in the name of medical research, washa mutate a hybrid of the H5N1 and H1N1 bird flu virus into a deadly version that could be easily transmitted from person to person.

Chinese Scientists Create New Mutant Bird-Flu Virus | Wired Science | Wired.com

 

[Mwali]

Point no. (1) Kwahiyo hii hali ilisabishwa na wanaume kuwa selfish? Kwamba they took advantage of women being mothers? Do you real think so?

This was not out of selfishness bout out of altruism, almost survival instinct. Women were vulnerable in the times of their pregnancies and needed to be protected and work as less as possible, move as less as possible. So men took over the work and warfare part of the job. that is the essential of politices (economy and defense). It is only as communities grew bigger and these jobs became permanent positions. But it was too late, most of women were out of the equation, until the last century.
Nakuomba tena, please soma post yangu ya kwanza, I said all these in almost the same wording.

 

[Tiger]

Wengine wanaweza kusema hata hayo maendeleo ya kisayansi ni "nature at work", nature imetupa mbongo za kuweza ku speed mambo kwa "gene therapy" kwa mfano.

Having said that, your cautious approach is not without warrant. Tayari kuna habari kwamba Wachina, in the name of medical research, washa mutate a hybrid of the H5N1 and H1N1 bird flu virus into a deadly version that could be easily transmitted from person to person.

Chinese Scientists Create New Mutant Bird-Flu Virus | Wired Science | Wired.com

The way i see it, nature ni kama maji ya mto, ukijenga bwawa yataingi, bwawa likiwa dhaifu yatabomoa lakini bwawa hilo hilo likijaa maji yataendelea na safari. So tukitumia mbongo zetu kwa msaada wa nature tunaweza kuboresha maisha, lakini pia twaweza kuyavuruga hata kutoweka.
Note, nature itaendelea na laws zake hata kama tutakuwa tumetoweka kitambo.
Remembe the mega animals?

 

[Tiger]

This was not out of selfishness bout out of altruism, almost survival instinct. Women were vulnerable in the times of their pregnancies and needed to be protected and work as less as possible, move as less as possible. So men took over the work and warfare part of the job. that is the essential of politices (economy and defense). It is only as communities grew bigger and these jobs became permanent positions. But it was too late, most of women were out of the equation, until the last century.
Nakuomba tena, please soma post yangu ya kwanza, I said all these in almost the same wording.

Comments za watu wengine unazisoma lakini? Any way kwa maelezo yako, pengine hili ni swala la kiasili zaidi ya sababu nyingine, kama hivyo ndivyo, ili kubadili hiyo hali inayoonekana si ya usawa tunahitaji kubadili hata mfumo wa kibiolojia basi. Si ndio?

 

[Mwali]

Comments za watu wengine unazisoma lakini? Any way kwa maelezo yako, pengine hili ni swala la kiasili zaidi ya sababu nyingine, kama hivyo ndivyo, ili kubadili hiyo hali inayoonekana si ya usawa tunahitaji kubadili hata mfumo wa kibiolojia basi. Si ndio?

Nasoma comments za wengine pia, but najaribu kujibu swali lako tokana na ninachokijua mimi.
Uliuliza nini CHANZO, hujauliza kipi kifanyike ili kurekebisha consequences. Kilicho fanyika ndio kama hivo kuraise awareness on the fact that a woman is not just a machine to reproduce manking. Uzazi wa mpango tu wenyewe ni kitu kikubwa sana as it frees time for a woman to contribute more efficiently to her community.
Mfano mdogo: Kuna watu wanakataa kufanya kazi na wanawake sababu wanahisi/wanajua mwanamke ataomba at least a maternity leave every three years, and an hour to breastfeed per day, bila kuhesabu siku ambazo haji kabisa for morning sickness or because the baby is sick. tunatakiwa kuhakikisha leave times and carrier advancement are not segregative.
These things are normal and there should be a fair evaluation system that is not disadvantageous for women. Sina jibu kwa sasa but lazima watu wafikirie sana haya mambo.

 

[Kiranga]

The way i see it, nature ni kama maji ya mto, ukijenga bwawa yataingi, bwawa likiwa dhaifu yatabomoa lakini bwawa hilo hilo likijaa maji yataendelea na safari. So tukitumia mbongo zetu kwa msaada wa nature tunaweza kuboresha maisha, lakini pia twaweza kuyavuruga hata kutoweka.
Note, nature itaendelea na laws zake hata kama tutakuwa tumetoweka kitambo.
Remembe the mega animals?

This is a tautology, kama vile "kutabiri" mtoto atakayezaliwa atakuwa ama wa kiume ama wa kike.

Halafu unaposema "tukitumia mbongo zetu kwa msaada wa nature" what do you mean?

Kutumia ubongo si nature? Kuna kutumia ubongo bila kutumia nature?

 

[Tiger]

Nasoma comments za wengine pia, but najaribu kujibu swali lako tokana na ninachokijua mimi.
Uliuliza nini CHANZO, hujauliza kipi kifanyike ili kurekebisha consequences. Kilicho fanyika ndio kama hivo kuraise awareness on the fact that a woman is not just a machine to reproduce manking. Uzazi wa mpango tu wenyewe ni kitu kikubwa sana as it frees time for a woman to contribute more efficiently to her community.
Mfano mdogo: Kuna watu wanakataa kufanya kazi na wanawake sababu wanahisi/wanajua mwanamke ataomba at least a maternity leave every three years, and an hour to breastfeed per day, bila kuhesabu siku ambazo haji kabisa for morning sickness or because the baby is sick. tunatakiwa kuhakikisha leave times and carrier advancement are not segregative.
These things are normal and there should be a fair evaluation system that is not disadvantageous for women. Sina jibu kwa sasa but lazima watu wafikirie sana haya mambo.

Napata tabu kuamini "nature is unfair" ndo maana nashindwa kusema maelezo yako ni sahihi au la? Plz usione kama natarajia jibu fulani ila kama nikipata maelezo yatakayo gusa my instinc, i guess i will take it. I am sorry to say that.