Mwacheni Mungu aitwe Mungu

[Kiranga]

Ni kweli sijawahi wasikia il a nimesoma hayo majina kwenye Misale ya waumini.don't go out of the topic dude tupe tofauti ya terms husika.mwalimu Wang alizoea kutuambia fabricando fit Faber kama nakumbuka spelling.tuonyeshe umahiri kwanza kwa kutueleza utofauti.halafu kutoka nje tu ya topic ni FAILURE

I am going deeper into the topic, not out of topic.

Just because your knowledge of the topic is shallow do not take the depth to be "out of topic".

Terms husika zipi?

 

[Makanyaga]

This circuitous faulty argument would work only if Kiranga must be created by god, the very thing in dispute here, since Kiranga disputes the very existence of god.

Your very signature says side with seekers, and do not believe those who claim to have found the truth.

In saying that god is the answers, people are claiming to have found the truth.

In saying that we need to search some more beyond the god idea, I am seeking, not claiming to have found the truth.

Your own signature points to the fallacy of the godhead idea.

Yes my signature says it. It might scientifically be true, but then if you take it that way (as you have relied it in your argument here), then you are faced with the paradox of having found the truth using the same statement that denies the very existence of it. and in that way, it will always have an effect of sending you into a spiral of contradictions as well as confusions. However, this applies only in the phsical world.

In the spiritual realm, things become very different, where each person finds the truth using mechanisms that are quiet different from another person and which cannot in any way, be shared between persons.

Ngoja nikupe kisa cha ukweli kati ya vingi tu ambavyo nimeshawahi kuvishuhudia. Kuna siku tulikuwa nyumbani kijijini, (nadhani ilikuwa mwaka 1978) mwenzetu mmoja (10 yrs old kid) akaamka asubuhi akatusimulia kisa kuwa mwenzetu ambaye alikuwa ameondoka nyumbani tangu mwaka 1975, na alikuwa hajawahi kurudi nyumbani hata mara moja tangu aondoke, kamuota kuwa amekuja, akasema hadi nguo ambazo alikuwa amevaa. Kwenye mida ya saa 4 kweli yule mtu aliingia akiwa amevaa nguo zilezile ambazo yule mtoto alizitaja. Huyu mtoto alikuwa na visa vingi vya namna hiyo ku-predict matukio ya namna hii. Labda ninachoweza kusema ni kuwa TRUTH IS NOT FOUND BUT RATHER REVEALED, and revealation takes place only in the spritual world, not in the physical. In the phsical world, scientific instruments are used to predict the probabilistic truth and not the pure/real truth. That is why reseach is a non stop process where we seek and try to understand things differently each coming day, leading to improvement and/refuting of some already existing scientific theories. Mpaka hapa nadhani tuko pamoja ndugu yangu.

 

[Anheuser]

Ulichokiandika kina mantiki fulani ila mimi ninaweza kusema labda Mungu anawaumba hawa vilema ili utukufu/matendo yake makuu yaweze kuonekana au unasemaje?

Hivi unaweza kutengeneza kitu kibovu ili kitu kizuri ulichotengeneza kiweze kuonekana? Toyota Motors watengeneza magari machache mabovu ili magari yao makali yapate utukufu! Si ndio wataharibu market ya magari mazuri? It does not make any sense whatsoever!

Pasingekuwa na watu kama hawa kila kitu kingekuwa sawa hakuna mtu ambaye angemkumbuka Mungu.

Okay, kwa hiyo tukiona vilema ndio tunamkumbuka Mungu, kwamba anatutisha kuwa atatugeuza vilema au ni vipi? Tukimwaga ugali atamwaga mboga, nothing short of laughable.

Na kama hivyo ndivyo, kwa nini amemtoa huyo jamaa kama mbuzi wa kafara ili sisi tupate fundisho, jamaa amekosa nini? Huyo Mungu anaetoa watu kafara mbona ana operate kama mchawi mchawi, kama wanaokamata innocent albino at random kuwatoa viungo ili kufikia malengo fulani. Hana huruma!

Na kama hivyo ndivyo, kamtoa jamaa kafara ili tumkumbuke Mungu, mbona the whole plan is not working? Nani anamkumbuka Mungu maisha haya kwa kuona vilema? Dunia imejaa madhambi na maasi, obviously his plan ain't working.

 

[Anheuser]

kuliko kilema cha akili.Kushindwa kufikiri na kuelewa,kama wewe yaonyesha una ukilema wa akili,unashindwa kuelewa.

Okay, ni kweli kabisa, kwamba sina akili.

Kwa nini Mungu ameumba watu wengine wana akili wengine hatuna akili?

Na kama ni bora kuwa na kilema cha kiungo kuliko kuwa na kilema cha akili kama mimi, ilikuwaje Mungu akaniumba mimi na viungo kamili na kilema cha akili ilhali akijua kabisa kwamba ni bora cha viungo kuliko cha akili? Au hakujua? Manake wakati ananiumba mimi bila akili apparently haku realize hicho kitu. Yani Mungu wako aliyekuumba ni ignorant kuliko wewe, ama?

 

[Makanyaga]

Da I like this kind of thinking & analysis .thumb up

sweetbaby;

Kwa wale tunaoamini uwepo wa Mungu, Biblia inasema hivi:

• Mwanzo: 1:26 Mungu akasema, Na tufanye mtu kwa mfano wetu, kwa sura yetu, wakatawale samaki wa baharini, na ndege wa angani, na wanyama, na nchi yote pia, na kila chenye kutambaa kitambaacho juu ya nchi.
  
• 27 Mungu akamuumba mtu kwa mfano wake, kwa mfano wa Mungu akamuumba, mwanamume na mwanamke aliwaumba.
• 28 Mungu akawabarikia, Mungu akawaambia, Zaeni, mkaongezeke, mkaijaze nchi, na kuitiisha; mkatawale samaki wa baharini, na ndege wa angani, na kila kiumbe chenye uhai kitambaacho juu ya nchi.

Hili ndilo jibu lake. Mungu alimuumba mwanadamu kwa mfano wake na akampa mamlaka juu ya kila kiumbe kilicho hai kitambaacho juu ya nchi. Kwa hiyo, Mwanadamu anaonekana kuwa bora na atawale juu ya kila kilicho hai kwa kuwa Mungu aliamuru iwe hivyo.
Je, Mwanadamu aliumbwaje na anatokana na nini?

• Mwanzo: 2:7 BWANA, Mungu akamfanya mtu kwa mavumbi ya ardhi, akampulizia puani pumzi ya uhai; akawa nafsi hai.

Hivyo basi, kwa mtoa mada yeyote yule ambaye haamini uwepo wa Mungu, anatakiwaq atoe evidence ya kuonyesha pia kwa nini binadamu pamoja na kuwepo kwake, ana miguu miwili, na si minne au nusu mguu. That way atakuwa angalau anatuelekeza kwenye kukikubali kile ambacho yeye anaamini kuwa ni kweli

 

[Deshbhakt]

It is indeed sad to see the picture but maybe he lost his arm in an accident or had some genetic disease?

A picture does portray a thousand words but to blame or accuse a God does not seem to fit into this?

Let us ask ourselves, when we were born, we were not asked which religion we want or neither were our parents?
Parents 'inherited' a belief there is a God(s) that one has to worship and hence the stand we continue with today..

There are millions of questions and misdeeds going on in our world and as a human, we tend to ask is if indeed there are
Gods,then why do these aspects occur?

Children of the 21st century and thanks to modern technology tend to ask rather bold questions regarding the very active God related disease, war calamities and destruction(s) but sadly we as their parents have 'inherited' a belief there are Gods out there...

 

[Ibambasi]

Mungu anayehitaji kuumba vilema ili utukufu wake uonekane hana utukufu.

Ana standards za morality zilizo chini ya za mwanadamu.

Mungu kumuumba binadamu kilema ili utukufu wake uonekanewakati ana uwezo wa kumuumba mzima ni sawa na baba kukmkata mtoto wake mguu kwa makusudi ili tu ubaba wake uonekane.

That is one sicko god if you ask me.

Kama mungu kweli ana uwezo wa yote basi angekuwa na uwezo wa kuumba ulimwengu ambao hauna vilema, halafu bado tukawa na uwezo wa kumtambua, hata kama angeweka bango tu juu angani linalosema "Niabuduni mimi mungu niko huku juu".

Ukichunguza sana utaona hizi habari za mungu ni kamba tu. Hazina uthibitisho wala consistency.

Kuna mstari katika kile kitabu cha kiyahudi unaosema something like ... Na tuumbe MTU kwa MFANO wetu...I find that confusing...Ni mfano upi huo? Manake mleta mada ameweka picha ya mtu mlemavu, naamini kabisa mleta mada ni mzima na kisha anausifu "utukufu" wa Mungu!

 

[Ibambasi]

Yes my signature says it. It might scientifically be true, but then if you take it that way (as you have relied it in your argument here), then you are faced with the paradox of having found the truth using the same statement that denies the very existence of it. and in that way, it will always have an effect of sending you into a spiral of contradictions as well as confusions. However, this applies only in the phsical world.

In the spiritual realm, things become very different, where each person finds the truth using mechanisms that are quiet different from another person and which cannot in any way, be shared between persons.

Ngoja nikupe kisa cha ukweli kati ya vingi tu ambavyo nimeshawahi kuvishuhudia. Kuna siku tulikuwa nyumbani kijijini, (nadhani ilikuwa mwaka 1978) mwenzetu mmoja (10 yrs old kid) akaamka asubuhi akatusimulia kisa kuwa mwenzetu ambaye alikuwa ameondoka nyumbani tangu mwaka 1975, na alikuwa hajawahi kurudi nyumbani hata mara moja tangu aondoke, kamuota kuwa amekuja, akasema hadi nguo ambazo alikuwa amevaa. Kwenye mida ya saa 4 kweli yule mtu aliingia akiwa amevaa nguo zilezile ambazo yule mtoto alizitaja. Huyu mtoto alikuwa na visa vingi vya namna hiyo ku-predict matukio ya namna hii. Labda ninachoweza kusema ni kuwa TRUTH IS NOT FOUND BUT RATHER REVEALED, and revealation takes place only in the spritual world, not in the physical. In the phsical world, scientific instruments are used to predict the probabilistic truth and not the pure/real truth. That is why reseach is a non stop process where we seek and try to understand things differently each coming day, leading to improvement and/refuting of some already existing scientific theories. Mpaka hapa nadhani tuko pamoja ndugu yangu.

Kuna kitu kinaitwa clairvoyance...kuna watu wana nguvu hizo. Na siyo kwamba hiyo ni revelation as per the so called holy book.

 

[Kikwajuni One]

Okay, ni kweli kabisa, kwamba sina akili.

Kwa nini Mungu ameumba watu wengine wana akili wengine hatuna akili?

Na kama ni bora kuwa na kilema cha kiungo kuliko kuwa na kilema cha akili kama mimi, ilikuwaje Mungu akaniumba mimi na viungo kamili na kilema cha akili ilhali akijua kabisa kwamba ni bora cha viungo kuliko cha akili? Au hakujua? Manake wakati ananiumba mimi bila akili apparently haku realize hicho kitu. Yani Mungu wako aliyekuumba ni ignorant kuliko wewe, ama?

Aumba atakavyo,huko kukosa kiungo fulani ndani ya mwili wako,ndio ushahidi tosha kama yupo Mungu mwenye kufanya hayo.Kama ingelikuwa ni nature,ndio kinachofanya kila kitu,kusingekuwa na ukosekenaji kama huo,kwa sababu nature hufuata asili ya kitu bila hicho kitu kubadilika.Ila Mungu hufanya apendavyo,bila wewe binadamu kupenda ni vip iwe au uwe.Ndio mana hata wewe hukuweza kujichagulia uzaliwe vipi,jinsia gani,rangi gani,kabila gani,uwe na akili kiasi gani.
Huku kutofautiana kwetu kwa akili,rangi,jinsia,sura,urefu au ufupi n.k.Ndio ujuwe yupo anayeyafanya hayo,na ni muweza kuliko wewe,au yoyote unayemfahamu wewe.
Kama unaamini hakuna Mungu,basi jibadilishe ujigeuze unavyotaka wewe,uone kama itawezekana,kama umezaliwa Mwafrika,jigeuze uwe Mzungu.Kama ni mfupi jigeuze uwe mrefu.Kama huna maarifa,jigeuze uwe uwe na akili kushinda akili za waliopo dunia nzima,ukishindawa moja kai ya hayo,ujuwe yupo aliyekufanya uwe hivyo,naye ni Mungu.

 

[Kikwajuni One]

Chochote kinachofanywa na viumbe,duniani ujuwe ipo nguvu nyuma yake.Kama ingekuwa hakuna nguvu hiyo,Ambayo ndiye Mungu muweza,yasingetokea hayo.Unazaliwa bila kujijuwa,bila wewe kuchagua uzaliwe wapi,na uzaliwe kabila gani,rangi gani,jinsia gani,urefu gani,akili za namna gani.Na pia huwezi kuchagua kufa au usife,Wakati ule anaoutaka huyo aliyekuumba ndio unakufa,bila wewe kupanga siku ya kufa,wala kuijuwa.
Ikiwa una akili zilizotimia,na zinazofanyakazi,kufa kwa kiumbe chochote,ikiwa pamoja na binadamu,ni somo tosha la kujuwa kuwa yupo anaendesha maisha yako,bila ya hiyari yako,ambaye ni Mungu,muweza,asiyeshindwa na chochote.Ukiweza kujiondolea expire date yako,usife,hapo unaweza ukasema hakuna anayendesha maisha yangu.Lakini hujui mda,wala siku,wala saa,wala eneo gani,mji gani,na utakufa vipi.kwa ajali au ugnjwa,au usingizini au utaanguka ghafla,ujuwe yupo Mungu,anayeyafanya yote hayo.

 

[Kiranga]

Okay, ni kweli kabisa, kwamba sina akili.

Kwa nini Mungu ameumba watu wengine wana akili wengine hatuna akili?

Na kama ni bora kuwa na kilema cha kiungo kuliko kuwa na kilema cha akili kama mimi, ilikuwaje Mungu akaniumba mimi na viungo kamili na kilema cha akili ilhali akijua kabisa kwamba ni bora cha viungo kuliko cha akili? Au hakujua? Manake wakati ananiumba mimi bila akili apparently haku realize hicho kitu. Yani Mungu wako aliyekuumba ni ignorant kuliko wewe, ama?

Mungu gani ana sense ya fairness iliyo kuwa lower than a human sense of fairness? I thought he was supposed to be better.

 

[Kiranga]

Yes my signature says it. It might scientifically be true, but then if you take it that way (as you have relied it in your argument here),

Hey hey hey hey, words matter. I have not relied, I have anecdoted.There is a big difference. My case is made even without your signature.Your signature does not make my case therefore I did not rely on your signature to make my case.I merely augmented and buttressed my case by using the anecdote of your signature.

Lets get that clear and out of the way on the outset.

then you are faced with the paradox of having found the truth

Who said I have found the truth? How does someone disputing something equals finding the truth?

using the same statement that denies the very existence of it.

How is denial finding the truth?

and in that way,

In which way? You have not demonstrated any way, only a confusion.

it will always

How long is always? How do you know always?

have an effect of sending you into a spiral of contradictions as well as confusions.

Who is confused here?

Between myself, disputing that there is evidence for the existence of god, and you taking this disputation as "finding the truth", who is confused?

How is a disputation "finding the truth"?

However, this applies only in the phsical world.

Why only physical?

In the spiritual realm,

Define what is a spirit. What is "spirit" if not another bucket of hogwash?

things become very different, where each person finds the truth using mechanisms that are quiet different from another person and which cannot in any way, be shared between persons.

Translation, this is bullshyt used by church pimps to siphon off your hard earned cash so that they could live it up.

They will tell you that your poverty will help you get into heaven as long as you give the proceeds of your transactions to them.

Ngoja nikupe kisa cha ukweli kati ya vingi tu ambavyo nimeshawahi kuvishuhudia. Kuna siku tulikuwa nyumbani kijijini, (nadhani ilikuwa mwaka 1978) mwenzetu mmoja (10 yrs old kid) akaamka asubuhi akatusimulia kisa kuwa mwenzetu ambaye alikuwa ameondoka nyumbani tangu mwaka 1975, na alikuwa hajawahi kurudi nyumbani hata mara moja tangu aondoke, kamuota kuwa amekuja, akasema hadi nguo ambazo alikuwa amevaa. Kwenye mida ya saa 4 kweli yule mtu aliingia akiwa amevaa nguo zilezile ambazo yule mtoto alizitaja. Huyu mtoto alikuwa na visa vingi vya namna hiyo ku-predict matukio ya namna hii. Labda ninachoweza kusema ni kuwa TRUTH IS NOT FOUND BUT RATHER REVEALED, and revealation takes place only in the spritual world, not in the physical.

Even if this is true. It does not prove the existence of god.

Arthur C Clarke said any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. This could be something perfectly explainable within the realm of the natural world, but something we do not yet understand.

Of course chances are you are totally pulling my leg.

But even if you are not. How does the unexplained prove the existence of god? Ndiyo maana nikaandika god provides the default easy answer to lazy people when faced with the unexplained. The fact that we cannot explain something does not prove that god did it, it just shows that we do not understand.

Unanikumbusha watu wa zamani Africa walivyokuwa wanasema wazungu ni miungu (etymologically root ya "mungu" na "mzungu" ni moja) kwa sababu walikuja na darubini za kuona mbali, music box, waliweza kutabiri solar eclipses etc. Kwa watu wa zamani Africa these things were unexplainable, and instead of looking for a natural explanation, some went to the easy explanation, that these people are gods, hence the name "mzungu".

You are making the same mistake, albeit with the advantage of hundreds of years. Are we learning anything?

In the phsical world,

You meant to write "physical" I notice this is the second time.First time I thought it was a typo. Either your y key is stuck or you don't know how to spell "physical".

I see that you typed y elsewhere in this post.So it must be a spelling issue.

scientific instruments are used to predict the probabilistic truth and not the pure/real truth.

Very good observation, not only probbilistic but non-absolute, meaning measurements are always within a margin of error.

Let me ask you a question regarding this. Does god posses perfect, non-probabilistic and no margin of error kind of knowledge?

Like if Iwake up in the morning, does he know exactly what will I have for lunch today? In a non-predictive, non-probabilistic, no-margin of error way?

That is why reseach is a non stop process where we seek and try to understand things differently each coming day, leading to improvement and/refuting of some already existing scientific theories.

I do not see the relevance of this part. Nobody disputed this.You are answering an unasked question, explaining something that is not in dispute, unnecessarily clogging up the pipes of cyberspace and the brains of your readers.

Mpaka hapa nadhani tuko pamoja ndugu yangu.

Hatuko pamoja kwa sababu you are confused and you project that confusion on me.

Unasema mtu anaye dispute a position amepata truth, since when is a disputation a truth.

I merely challeng you to show proof that god exists, how is that finding the truth?

How can you say thattuko pamoja wakati ushasema niko confused?

Who is confused now?

 

[SJUMAA26]

Mungu gani ana sense ya fairness iliyo kuwa lower than a human sense of fairness? I thought he was supposed to be better.

Mpaka sasa, Kiranga, et al wana 95% while the opponents wana 1%! The rest (ambao wana 4%) hawajui kitu. Tahadhari: Hii ni kwa mujibu wa Wachangiaji na si maoni ya Mwandishi!

 

[Kiranga]

Chochote kinachofanywa na viumbe,duniani ujuwe ipo nguvu nyuma yake.

Sawa, the second law of thermodynamics explains that in closed systems entropy tends to increase, ndiyo maana tunahitaji kufagia, kula, kuweka mafuta kwenye magari etc.

Kwa hiyo hili si geni na lishaelezewa bila kumuhitaji mungu. We do not need "the god hypthesis" in this.

Kama ingekuwa hakuna nguvu hiyo,Ambayo ndiye Mungu muweza,

Hapa umeruka na "ku force king".

Unajuaje kwamba nguvu hiyo ni mungu muweza na si mabaki ya irrational numbers, au tambiko la Wachagga wenye miguu mitatu wanaoishi juu ya mlima Kilimanjaro? Au the Kaluza Klein manifold manifestation of the 541st spatial dimension of a string theory's brane colliding with four mirrored wormholes at the edge of negative two multiverses receding in the 36th imaginary temporal dimension which happens to be the 36th Chamber of the art of the covenant of the Wu Tang Clan and the Asimovian Book of Quest for Nighfall?

yasingetokea hayo.

Unajuaje? Ushawahi kuwepo kwenye ulimwengu ambao hauna mungu na kuona kwamba hayawezekani?

Unazaliwa bila kujijuwa,bila wewe kuchagua uzaliwe wapi,na uzaliwe kabila gani,rangi gani,jinsia gani,urefu gani,akili za namna gani.

Totally irrelevant. Kuzaliwa bila kujijua si uthibitisho kwamba kuna mungu.

Na pia huwezi kuchagua kufa au usife,

Totally irrelevant. Kutoweza kuchagua wakati wa kufa si proof kwamba mungu yupo.

This is a logical non-sequitur. The latter does not follow from the former. Just because hatuwezi kuzuia kufa haimaanishi kwamba hilo lina prove kuwapo kwa mungu. Second law of thermodynamics inaelezea kwa nini tunakufa, sio sisi tu, mpaka nyota na ulimwengu utakufa. Huhitaji mungu kuelezea entropy and how it works.

Wakati ule anaoutaka huyo aliyekuumba

You must be the king of "forcing king" or something. Hujanionesha proof kwamba mungu yupo usharukia ku force kwamba mungu ndo anaua watu.

ndio unakufa,bila wewe kupanga siku ya kufa,wala kuijuwa.

Tatizo umeshakunywa maji ya dini sana hata reason huwezi kufuata.

Utasemaje mungu ndiye anayesababisha kifo kabla ya ku prove kwamba yupo at all?

Ikiwa una akili zilizotimia,na zinazofanyakazi,kufa kwa kiumbe chochote,ikiwa pamoja na binadamu,ni somo tosha la kujuwa kuwa yupo anaendesha maisha yako,

Kwa nini kifo kitokane na mungu? Mpaka sasa una dance na generalities tu, hujanipa sababu kwa nini kifo changu kiwe kimpangwa na mungu. Hujanionesha hata kamba mungu yupo.

Ni kama mimi nianze kukuambia kwamba kifo chako kinapangwa na Chifu wa Wachagga wenye miguu mitatu aliye juu ya mlima Kilimanjaro, bila hata ku prove kwamba yupo hata kwa picha ya Photoshop. Utaniona chizi.

Kwa nini nisikuone wewe chizi kwa kuamini huyu mungu anasababisha kifo changu hata bila ya kuwa na proof kwamba yupo?

bila ya hiyari yako,ambaye ni Mungu,muweza,asiyeshindwa na chochote.

Si kweli kwamba hashindwi chochote, even if for the sake of argument I grant he exists, ameshindwa kujidhihirisha kwangu. There is one thing ameshindwa kufanya.

Ukiweza kujiondolea expire date yako,usife,hapo unaweza ukasema hakuna anayendesha maisha yangu.

Again this is a non-sequitur. The second law of thermodynamics explain why things die, all things, not only living things. It explains why cars die, buildings collapse, stars burs in supernovae and ultimately the universe will die out. You do not need god to explain death.

Lakini hujui mda,wala siku,wala saa,wala eneo gani,mji gani,na utakufa vipi.kwa ajali au ugnjwa,au usingizini au utaanguka ghafla,ujuwe yupo Mungu,anayeyafanya yote hayo.

Kutokujua ni kutokujua. Kwa nini unaona kutokujua majibu ya maswali hayo maana yake mungu yupo?

Hujaonesha relationship ya mimi kutokujua nitakavyokufa na proof of the existence of god.

Unasema sijui nitakavyokufa, kweli.

How does that prove god exists?

 

[mwaJ]

Ndio lakini kwa tabu na mateso makali.

Theory ya uumbaji hai make sense. Mimi binadamu wa kawaida mwenye madhambi kibao namuonea huruma huyu mwenzangu, iweje Mungu ambae yeye tunaambiwa ni Mungu wa upendo Mungu wa huruma hana huruma? Hizi imani za Mungu uwepo wa mtu kwenye mawingu anaeumba vilema halafu anasifiwa ni total nonsense na binadamu anazikubali hook line and sinker. Duuuh....

Are you an atheist? Daah! umenifanya nihisi baridi.

 

[SJUMAA26]

Sawa, the second law of thermodynamics explains that in closed systems entropy tends to increase, ndiyo maana tunahitaji kufagia, kula, kuweka mafuta kwenye magari etc.

Kwa hiyo hili si geni na lishaelezewa bila kumuhitaji mungu. We do not need "the god hypthesis" in this.



Hapa umeruka na "ku force king".

Unajuaje kwamba nguvu hiyo ni mungu muweza na si mabaki ya irrational numbers, au tambiko la Wachagga wenye miguu mitatu wanaoishi juu ya mlima Kilimanjaro? Au the Kaluza Klein manifold manifestation of the 541st spatial dimension of a string theory's brane colliding with four mirrored wormholes at the edge of negative two multiverses receding in the 36th imaginary temporal dimension which happens to be the 36th Chamber of the art of the covenant of the Wu Tang Clan and the Asimovian Book of Quest for Nighfall?




Unajuaje? Ushawahi kuwepo kwenye ulimwengu ambao hauna mungu na kuona kwamba hayawezekani?



Totally irrelevant. Kuzaliwa bila kujijua si uthibitisho kwamba kuna mungu.



Totally irrelevant. Kutoweza kuchagua wakati wa kufa si proof kwamba mungu yupo.

This is a logical non-sequitur. The latter does not follow from the former. Just because hatuwezi kuzuia kufa haimaanishi kwamba hilo lina prove kuwapo kwa mungu. Second law of thermodynamics inaelezea kwa nini tunakufa, sio sisi tu, mpaka nyota na ulimwengu utakufa. Huhitaji mungu kuelezea entropy and how it works.



You must be the king of "forcing king" or something. Hujanionesha proof kwamba mungu yupo usharukia ku force kwamba mungu ndo anaua watu.



Tatizo umeshakunywa maji ya dini sana hata reason huwezi kufuata.

Utasemaje mungu ndiye anayesababisha kifo kabla ya ku prove kwamba yupo at all?



Kwa nini kifo kitokane na mungu? Mpaka sasa una dance na generalities tu, hujanipa sababu kwa nini kifo changu kiwe kimpangwa na mungu. Hujanionesha hata kamba mungu yupo.

Ni kama mimi nianze kukuambia kwamba kifo chako kinapangwa na Chifu wa Wachagga wenye miguu mitatu aliye juu ya mlima Kilimanjaro, bila hata ku prove kwamba yupo hata kwa picha ya Photoshop. Utaniona chizi.

Kwa nini nisikuone wewe chizi kwa kuamini huyu mungu anasababisha kifo changu hata bila ya kuwa na proof kwamba yupo?



Si kweli kwamba hashindwi chochote, even if for the sake of argument I grant he exists, ameshindwa kujidhihirisha kwangu. There is one thing ameshindwa kufanya.



Again this is a non-sequitur. The second law of thermodynamics explain why things die, all things, not only living things. It explains why cars die, buildings collapse, stars burs in supernovae and ultimately the universe will die out. You do not need god to explain death.



Kutokujua ni kutokujua. Kwa nini unaona kutokujua majibu ya maswali hayo maana yake mungu yupo?

Hujaonesha relationship ya mimi kutokujua nitakavyokufa na proof of the existence of god.

Unasema sijui nitakavyokufa, kweli.

How does that prove god exists?

Basi Kiranga, imetosha. Nimegundua kuwa wengi wetu (kama siyo 99%) tumepokea dini kama dogma tu. Hata kasisi, kuhani, padre, Mchungaji, Askofu, Shehe, Imamu, Mufti Mdogo, Mufti Mkuu, Papa, Kambare, Baba Askofu, Mama Askofu, Mama Mchungaji, Mzee wa Kanisa, Bibi wa Kanisa, Katekista, Father, Mother, Sister, Brother, Shemasi, Msharika, Mshiriki, Muumini, Mwanajumuiya (iwe ya dini au zile za CCM), Mwanakwaya au mtu awaye yeyote yule katika dini yoyote ile (save pagans), hwajui hata huyo mungu / Mungu wanayemwabudu kila wiki / siku / saa / dakika / sekunde ni nani hasa, katokea wapi, uwezo wake ukoje, na ana uhusiano gani na sisi! Kama vile mmoja nimeona akiandika eti heri aamini kuwa Mungu yupo ili hata asipokutana naye atakuwa kwenye upande salama kuliko kuamini kuwa Mungu hayupo halafu mwisho wa siku akakutana naye! Sasa wa hivi si bora tu aifute hata hiyo dhana ya Mungu? Mtu wa hivyo naye anatazamia Mungu ampeleke peponi akifa? Tena usikute ni Kiongozi ndani ya dini zao hizo! WHAT NONSENSE!

 

[Mokoyo]

MUNGU katika YESU KRISTO ni wa maajabu

 

[IGWE]

Mpaka sasa, Kiranga, et al wana 95% while the opponents wana 1%! The rest (ambao wana 4%) hawajui kitu. Tahadhari: Hii ni kwa mujibu wa Wachangiaji na si maoni ya Mwandishi!

This is very true mkuu,..mara zote_narudia mara zote kwenye mijadala kama hii kina Kiranga,Bwaxxlo,Introvert,Moshdar & co...huwa wanaibuka na ushindi wa kishindo...hawa kina sisi ni kwamba hatuna logic kwenye haya mambo tunayoyaamini...zaidi tunaamini tu sababu ya ama mazoea au ni vitisho vya kuchomwa moto siku tukifa ndio vinatufanya tuamini.

 

[Makanyaga]

Kuna kitu kinaitwa clairvoyance...kuna watu wana nguvu hizo. Na siyo kwamba hiyo ni revelation as per the so called holy book.

Telepathy and clairvoyance might just be the forms of revelation to my guess, I'm not sure!

 

[Ibambasi]

Basi Kiranga, imetosha. Nimegundua kuwa wengi wetu (kama siyo 99%) tumepokea dini kama dogma tu. Hata kasisi, kuhani, padre, Mchungaji, Askofu, Shehe, Imamu, Mufti Mdogo, Mufti Mkuu, Papa, Kambare, Baba Askofu, Mama Askofu, Mama Mchungaji, Mzee wa Kanisa, Bibi wa Kanisa, Katekista, Father, Mother, Sister, Brother, Shemasi, Msharika, Mshiriki, Muumini, Mwanajumuiya (iwe ya dini au zile za CCM), Mwanakwaya au mtu awaye yeyote yule katika dini yoyote ile (save pagans), hwajui hata huyo mungu / Mungu wanayemwabudu kila wiki / siku / saa / dakika / sekunde ni nani hasa, katokea wapi, uwezo wake ukoje, na ana uhusiano gani na sisi! Kama vile mmoja nimeona akiandika eti heri aamini kuwa Mungu yupo ili hata asipokutana naye atakuwa kwenye upande salama kuliko kuamini kuwa Mungu hayupo halafu mwisho wa siku akakutana naye! Sasa wa hivi si bora tu aifute hata hiyo dhana ya Mungu? Mtu wa hivyo naye anatazamia Mungu ampeleke peponi akifa? Tena usikute ni Kiongozi ndani ya dini zao hizo! WHAT NONSENSE!

Umenena vyema kabisa. Watu wanafuata dini kwa sababu ya fear of the unknown. Mtu anaona bora tu ajifiche nyuma ya Imani just in case...watu wengi hawawezi kabisa kuchambua na kufanya logical analysis ya kwa nini wanadamu tupo na tunakufa. Wanapokea tu mafundisho kutoka kwa wajanja wachache waliokariri stori za mababu wa kiyahudi na kiarabu na kulazimisha kuwa hiyo ndiyo proof ya uumbaji na destiny ya mwanadamu.