Majeshi yetu Comoro: Who is responsible?

Nimevutiwa na hii mada na naomba kutoa mchango wangu.

Nafikiri ni kitu cha kujivunia kuona majeshi ya Afrika yanachukua hatua chini ya uongozi wa AU kumaliza chokochoko za secession huko Comoro.Afrika sasa inaanza kuweka standards.Nakubali inawezekana kuna sehemu nyingi hii effort inatakiwa lakini lazima tukubali ni lazima tuanzie sehemu, na Comoro ni sehemu nzuri ya kuanzia kwa sababu strategically haiwezi kuwa engaging kama Sudan kwa mfano.

Kwa hiyo kwa kazi ya kutoa mfano huu uvamizi (sitaki hata kuiita vita, cmon, wanajeshi 300 wa Bacar unaweza kuwaita jeshi nao?)

I fully support this invasion.

Halafu cha ajabu, raisi wa Comoro Bwana Sambi ametangaza vita dhidi ya bacar, vita ambayo sisi watanzania tunashiriki, mwanakijiji anasema hatuko vitani kwa sababu Muungwana hatukutangazia.!

Mwanakijiji anasema hayo ni mapigano tu(battle) na si vita ,japo anakiri kwamba battle huzaa vita,lakini sisi majeshi yetu eti hayako vitani japo ni dhahiri yanashiriki katika battle!

by the way naomba kuuliza wadau!, hivi vita haiwi vita mpaka itangazwe kuwa hivi ni vita?

Hivi hapa anayejadiliwa ni Mwanakijiji, Comoro, Case and basis for the war, Comoro au vyote in general?

mwafrika wa kike said:

Hivi hapa anayejadiliwa ni Mwanakijiji, Comoro, Case and basis for the war, Comoro au vyote in general?

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Kila kitu na hata wewe utajadiliwa kama utapenda iwe hivyo. Let me know and tell lil sis I said hello....

Nyani Ngabu said:

Kila kitu na hata wewe utajadiliwa kama utapenda iwe hivyo. Let me know and tell lil sis I said hello....

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Heey Ngabu... consider that done! Thanks!

gamba la nyoka said:

Halafu cha ajabu, raisi wa Comoro Bwana Sambi ametangaza vita dhidi ya bacar, vita ambayo sisi watanzania tunashiriki, mwanakijiji anasema hatuko vitani kwa sababu Muungwana hatukutangazia.!

Mwanakijiji anasema hayo ni mapigano tu(battle) na si vita ,japo anakiri kwamba battle huzaa vita,lakini sisi majeshi yetu eti hayako vitani japo ni dhahiri yanashiriki katika battle!

by the way naomba kuuliza wadau!, hivi vita haiwi vita mpaka itangazwe kuwa hivi ni vita?

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Ninavyojua mimi Tanzania haiko katika vita ila imechangia wanajeshi katika jeshi la African Union.Kwa hiyo kama kuna entity iliyo vitani ni AU, siyo Tanzania.

Ingawa ningependa kuona vitu hivi vinajadiliwa bungeni kabla ya rais kuamua, imeripotiwa kuwa rais alishauriana na kamati ya bunge ya usalama/ulinzi na nafikiri amepewa go ahead au kuweza kuwa convince.I am not even sure our constitution requires this, being that so much power is concentrated on the president cum commander in chief cum chairman of ccm na bado kidogo tu angekuwa chancellor wa UDSM.

This is a piece of cake, it is Darfur and the other bigger missions I am concerned about.But this will set standards and a precedent.

Sasa kulikuwa na hoja kweli ya kuanzisha thread kivyake au hii ingeweza kabisa ku-fit kule kwenye mada ya mwanakijiji ya Wangwe kaa pembeni?

Pamoja na yote, tunajadili hii mada bila kuwa na taarifa muhimu zilizoifanya serikali yetu kupeleka majeshi huko Comoro. Without credible information, I am afraid, we are more likely than not to be flawed in our judgement about this matter!

Sasa kwa mujibu wa Umoja wa Mataifa, nchi moja inaweza ikaenda kupigana vita katika nchi ingine kwa sababu tatu tu, ambazo ni:

i) Nchi hiyo kujilinda dhidi ya uvamizi wa adui
ii) Kuzuia uhatarishaji wa maisha ya binadamu (reverting a human catastrophy)
iii) Kutii/Kutekeleza Azimio la Umoja wa Mataifa

Haya ipi kati ya vipengele hivi sisi tumevitumia kupeleka mitulinga na wapiganaji wetu huko Comoro?

Iam one of the ardent supporters of African solutions for African problems.

Tatizo langu na baadhi ya wengine humu na Jakaya ni kwamba mimi kama mlipa kodi na mwananchi halali wa Tanzania sikushirikishwa. either kupitia kwa mwakilishi wangu au mimi mwenyewe. I believe in the social contract between mtawala na mtawaliwa. Hiyo hela inayotumika haitoki mfukoni mwa Jakaya ni kodi yangu mimi na wewe! So it should be used responsibly. Au mmesahau kwamba 80% ya wananchi wetu hawana vyo na maji safi?

Hapa nchi inapelekwa vitani, tukianza kupanga foleni kununua sabuni kwa kuambiwa kwamba serikali imetumia fedha nyingi Comoro what shall we say?

For me I fully support the mission in Comoro to keep the country together, but I abhor the way it has been done and the pretence of some people to come here and justify this unacceptable situation using the wall of the constitution. The constitution is not an article of faith! Kama kweli tulikuwa na nia ya kutekeleza azimio la AU which is good, kulikuwa na haja gani kukaa kimya? kwa nini JK asingetutangazia kwenye one of his hotuba`s za kila mwezi?

Matendo kama haya ndo yanawafanya viongozi wetu wajisikie miungu watu kwa sababu they are accountable to no body. Hii hali lazima tuipinge kama watanzania. Tanzania is not a company, it is a sovereign republic ambako wote ni wadau! 40Million people. hili la kuwabrand wenzetu kwamba wakae pembeni simply by asking legitimate questions is unfair.

Tuache cheap politics za kutumia usomi wetu kwa vitu wazi kama hivi. Information is power, thats why the governemnt is not willing to give you that power. we have to demand it.

hapa sidhani kama kuna mtu yuko against na majeshi yetu huko comoro, wao wameitwa, wameitika amri ya amiri jeshi mkuu, na kazi wanaifanya inaonekana. tatizo hapa ninaloliona ni sababu ya sisi kwenda vitani. kwani kulikuwa hakuna njia mbadala ya kutufanya "tuachieve solution" bila kutumia nguvu za kijeshi?.

Kitila Mkumbo said:

Sasa kulikuwa na hoja kweli ya kuanzisha thread kivyake au hii ingeweza kabisa ku-fit kule kwenye mada ya mwanakijiji ya Wangwe kaa pembeni?

Pamoja na yote, tunajadili hii mada bila kuwa na taarifa muhimu zilizoifanya serikali yetu kupeleka majeshi huko Comoro. Without credible information, I am afraid, we are more likely than not to be flawed in our judgement about this matter!

Sasa kwa mujibu wa Umoja wa Mataifa, nchi moja inaweza ikaenda kupigana vita katika nchi ingine kwa sababu tatu tu, ambazo ni:

i) Nchi hiyo kujilinda dhidi ya uvamizi wa adui
ii) Kuzuia uhatarishaji wa maisha ya binadamu (reverting a human catastrophy)
iii) Kutii/Kutekeleza Azimio la Umoja wa Mataifa

Haya ipi kati ya vipengele hivi sisi tumevitumia kupeleka mitulinga na wapiganaji wetu huko Comoro?

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Kitila,

Kwanza kama nilivyosema hapo juu hii siyo effort ya nchi na nchi (Tanzania na Comoro) bali ni effort ya AU na Comoro.Comoro ni member wa AU, na charter ya AU ina clauses za kuipa mandate AU kuingilia migogoro ya kijeshi ya member counrty.Kwa hiyo ukiondoa "Umoja wa Mataifa" ukaweka "Umoja wa Afrika" katika sababu yako ya tatu hapo juu unapata sababu nzuri tu ya Tanzania kuchangia majeshi katika jeshi la AU.

Pili,hata kama ingekuwa Tanzania hapa kuna mualiko wa Federal Government ya Comoro.Anayeenda kutolewa siyo rais wa Federal Government of Comoro bali ni rais wa kisiwa cha Anjouan aliyekataa kuondoka madarakani baada ya muda wake kuisha, kwa hapa kwetu ni sawa na rais wa Zanzibar labda.Kwa hiyo Comoro wameomba msaada.

Sioni tatizo lolote, tunaweza ku discuss the economics of it but the principle is clear.

Africa is at least now awaking to the call of taking care of its own mess, establishing rule of law and stamping out despondent secessionist elements.How can anybody be against that?

I wish wangekuwa na mandate ya kwenda kuwatoa kina Mugabe, Bashir Kibaki and countless others, including their chair Kikwete.

Msiwe Na Wasi Wasi

Mtukufu Raisi Atatueleza Katika Hotuba Yake Ya Mwisho Wa Mwezi Huu Kidogo Kuhusu Vita Hiyo

Hata Na Hivyo Bunge Halijarihusu Wanajeshi Wetu Kwenda Kupigana Nchi Za Watu Sijui Kama Bunge La Senegal Nalo Limekubali Au Sudani Pia Kama Bunge Lao Limekubali

Lakini Mhe Raisi Lazima Atueleze Mwisho Wa Mwezi Huu Kuhusu Uamuzi Wake Wa Kupeleka Majeshi Katika Comoro

Ahsante

Shy,

Una hakika kikatiba ni lazima bunge kuruhusu? Unaposema bunge halijaruhusu unadismiss authority ya kamati ya bunge ya usalama/ulinzi?

Jamani mimi simpingi MKJJ kwani anayo haki ya kuchagua.Ila sababu kubwa ya kuja JF ni kwa ajili ya kupata alternative opinion na siyo kukubali status quo iliyojengeka kwenye vyombo vyetu vya habari


Tulitegemea kuona mtu kama MKJJ yuko mstari wa mbele kuuliza maswali ambayo media Tanzania wanaogopa kuuliza lakini kilichoniacha hoi ni hiyo editorial ya MKJJ ambayo inshort haitofautiani sana na ya OEPED ya NYPOST in the run up to war in Iraq

Kinachonitisha ni hiii kuanza kuambiwa eti kwa sababu wengine tunapinga hii military adventure tunakuwa labelled kuwa we are not PATRIOTIC enough. well majibu ni kuwa kama wanataka kuona patriotism yetu then wajenge barabara na watekeleze ilani ya uchaguzi kama walivyotuahidi na sii kuvamia nchi za watu


Nimetumiwa PM kuambiwa kuwa baada ya kuandika haya hapa chini kuwa mimi I am not patriotic enough na "wenyewe" wanahuzunishwa na jinsi ninavyomsakama "mheshimiwa" msimamo wangu kwenye hili haujabadilika na uko pale pale kama nilivyosema hapo awali kuwa:

Waziri wa mambo ya nchi za Nje bwana BERNARD MEMBE amkuwa akibehave kama Don Rumsfield kwa amekuwa hawakisha kwenye matamshi yake ya kutetea huvamizi wetu wa Comoro. Kama mjuavyo mimi sina ugomvi binafsi yane na kusema kweli I still admire him kama waziri ambaye ni mchapa kazi mzuri tuuu (kama akipewa nyenzo) lakini sina hakika what he is trying to prove na suspect anataka kujiposition kama presidential candidate, well sidhani kama kuna mwanasiasa atakaye bisha kuwa hataki kuwa rais.

Sasa basi mindhali media Tanzania imekuwa SEDATED na hakuna nayeuliza hard questions sasa nimeona sisi kama wana JF tunaweza kuuliza maswali ambayo wengi wanaogopa kuuliza kwa sababu:

a) wanatumiwa Private msgs kuwa WAAACHE WENYEWE HAWAPENDI
b) woga uliojikita miongno mwetu
c) Culture ya usiri uliopo serikalini


Sisis kama wazalendo wa Tanzania hatuto betray nchi yetu kwa kuwaweka maisha ya wanajeshi wetu hatarini, hatutoleak document yoyote ile kule WIKILEAKS kama documents za ufisadi zinginezo kuhusuana nah ii military operation lakini what we need hapa ni serikali kuwa up front nasi na kujibu maswali yafuatayo:


maswali:

Kwa nini Wizara ya Ulinzi imekuwa inaburuzwa kwenye press release na Foreign? na kwa nini hatupewi in depth details za hii operation?

Kwa nini Foreign chini ya Membe ndio wamekuwa wakitupa progress yah ii vita ?


Kwa nini Ikulu chini ya Salva hawatoi statements kwenye website yao kutueleza tutanifaika vipi kama taifa kupeleka wale wanajeshi kule?






Hii vita inatucost kiasi gani perday?

Je wanajeshi wetu wangapi wamejeruhiwa?

Wangapi washakufa?

Kwa nini wanajeshi wetu hawana BODY ARMOURS?


Ni akina nani walihusika kumshawishi JK sisi kuingia kwenye hii vita?





Hii operation ili pitishwa kwa azimio lipi la AU?


Lini?

akina nani walivote kule AU?


Nani ali abstain?


kwa nini?


Kama African Union hawawezi kupeleka Helicopter kule Darfur what makes you think pesa wanazo za hii operesheni ya Comoro?

Kama AU haina pesa za mkutano wa Pan African Parliament hizo pesa za uvamizi wa Comoro zimetoka wapi?

Kwa nini serikali haitaki kutuambia kuwa imetoa kiasi gani kwenye hii operation?


INTERVENTION:


Intervention hazikatazwi mfano Tanzania ilivamia Uganda uner pretext ya self defence na the same applies to Vietnam kuvamia Cambodia ...hii concepty inatumika zaidi kwenye UN charter 51


Je, Tanzanias invasion in Comoro inaangukia kwenye criteria gani ambayo ita concstitutte legitimate intervention?

kwenye internationa law wanasema kuwa ziko 4:


1) just cause (a "supreme humanitarian emergency")

2) last resort

3) proportional use of force


4) probability of achieving a humanitarian outcome


BERNARD MEMBE ambaye anajiposition kama hawk au tuseme Donal Rumsfield wetu hakuweka wazi haya.

Ina wezekana ikawa mheshimiwa waziri alipitiwa lakini ukiangalia jamaa wa International Commission on Intervention and State Sovereignty or the ICISS wao wali suggest six principles for the "responsibility to protect": nazo ni:

1)right cause

2)right intention

3)right authority

4) last resort

5)proportionate means

6)reasonable prospects

sasa maswali :

je, COMORO ina fit that bill?

Je uvamizi wa Comoro na majeshi yetu ni JUST CAUSE?

kama zote zimetick then lets move on kwenye argument ya pili nayo ni:

Je Majaeshi yetu yatakaa kule for how long?

Strategic planners wetu wanajua kuwa its EASY TO WIN THE WAR BUT DIFFICULT TO KEEP THE PEACE?

Bwana Abdul Bacar Soihir anapendwa kisiwani kwake na tuseme baada ya kuondoa..lets say majeshi yetu yakimuua mnategemea kuwa wananchi kwenye kie kisiwa wataendelea kuwapa wanajeshi wetu haluwa mtaani?

UHUSIANO WETU NA FRANCE:

Katika nchi ambaya wananchi wanawachukia wafaransa duniani basi COMORO ni number 1

Serikali ya ufaransa knowingly walikuwa wakimuachia yule DOG OF WAR bwana BOB DENARD kuwaua na kuwabadilishia watawala Comoro sasa raia wa Comoro leo atakisikiaje akisikia kuwa Tanzania na France lao moja kwenye hili?

Situation tuliyonayo itakuja kuwa kama ya majeshi ya India kule Srinegar na Jammu Kashmir ambako majeshi ya India ambayo ni waHINDU wamewakalia kimabavu raia wa Kashmir ambao wengi wao ni WAISLAM sasa hii ndio hali itakavyokuwa sasa hivi tunasherekea lakini kutokana na Sensitivity ya waComoro na FRANCE I am sure kuwa sisi tutaonekana kama occupying force kwenye kisiwa kile.


FANATIC MUSLIMS:
Japo wanasema kuwa rais wa sasa wa Comoro ni moderate Muslim lakini mwenyewe anajulikana kuwa anapata directives toka Iran na anajulikana kama ni hard liner. Sasa hamuoni kuwa hii iko in contrast na malengo yetu ya war against Muslim Fanaticism? Majeshi yetu wengi wao ni Wakristo sasa mnasemaje kama in the future kumetokea fall out na makundi ya waislam wenye siasa kali watakapo amua kubadilisha mwelekeo wa uvamizi wetu kama Ai Deed alivyofanya kula Somalia?

Its very simple kuignite haya mambo hivyo lets not rule that out.

UNITED NATIONS:

Je hamshangai kuwa UN haitajwi kabisa kwenye hili jambo? Membe hakuwaambia ukweli na ukweli ni kuwa forcible intervention kama ya Anjouan must be legally authorised by a resolution of the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) tena in accordance with the consent of nine of the fifteen members

Mfano UNSC katika miaka ya karibuni wame authorize military intervention :

1) restore democracy in Haiti, (UNSC 1994,res/940)

2) end the repression of Kurds in northern Iraq,(UNSC,1991 res/688)

3) curb famine in Somalia,(UNSC,1992 res/794)

4) stop ethnic cleansing in Bosnia,(UNSC,1992 res/770)

5) limit genocide in Rwanda.(UNSC,1994 res/929)

Na kwa kila case ya hizi resolutions, the Council cited a threat to international peace as the principal legal justification for intervention. Sasa hebu niambieni Anjouan wamethreat Peace ya Tanzania kwa namna gani?

Wote tunajua kwa nini UNSCOM II ilifeli kule Somalia na sioni kwa nini hii military occupation ya kisiwa cha Anjouan isifeli kama kutakuwa na watu smart wa kutrigger opinion za wananchi wa Anjouan


Anyway sini sababu ya kutowahusisha jamaa wa UNITAF in the first place.

Kuna watu walisema kuwa wanjeshi wetu wnahitaji mazoezi..well wanaweza kufanya hivyo kwa kutuhudumia sisi wananchi badala ya kupoteza ma bilioni kule Comoro

Huu ni mwanzo tuu na mengine yatafuata baadae

Labda ASSAH MWAMBENE angeweka wazi kwa nini Foreign wamekuwa ma hawakish kiasi hiki na kwanini waziri wa ulinzi au wizara ya ulinzi hawaruhusiwi kusema kitu

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Yangu macho....tusije tukawa tunajitengenezea ka-IRAQ KETU tu...

Na hii vita ya kidiplomasia na makamarade wetu wa afrika kusini inatupelekwa wapi? Hivi ni kweli tunaweza gharama za ugumvi na ndugu zetu eti kwa kuwa tunaongea vizuri na wazee wa dunia? Kwa kweli yangu macho...........

Anayedai mabadiliko ya katiba kwa kweli amepitwa na wakati..tunachohitaji sasa ni KATIBA MPYA itakayo tayaarishwa na kuhalalishwa kwa kuwashirikisha watanzania wote.....



Tanzanianjema

Hi

Game Kwa Hakika Unafaa Kuwa Freemason Je Umewahi Kupenda Movement Hii Ya Freemasony ? Kwanza Jina Lako La Game Lina Maanda Kubwa Sana Katika Fmasony

Tuachane Na Hayo Kwa Hakika Nakupongeza Kwa Msimamo Wako Huu Na Inaonyesha Jinsi Gani Usivyokubali Kuburuzwa Au Usivyokubali Kulamba Miguu Ya Wengine

Wale Wote Wanaokuandikia Pm Waambie Hayo Maswali Wauliza Hapa Sehemu Nyeupe Ili Watupe Haki Wengine Kusoma Na Kujifunza Vitu Fulani

Kama Wanaamua Kuandika Pm Maana Yake Hao Sio Wazalendo Wanaogopa Fikra Na Mawazo Yao Kuwekwa Wazi Hawa Ndio Wasomi Mafisadi Kama Zombwe Alivyosema Katika Gazeti La Rai Ya Wiki Hii

Usiku Mwema

i) Pundit: Kwa hiyo kumbe kulikuwa na resolution ya AU, mimi sikuwa na hizi taarifa, ndiyo maana nikauliza, kama hivyo ndivyo sawa, lakini I doubt, labda uniwekee clip hapa. Watu wengine sisi bwana ni wabishe mpaka tuone, kina Tomaso sisi bwana...

ii) GT: Hivi kumbe waziri wetu wa ulinzi ni Adam Malima, hili sijui lilinipita wapi!!?

iii) mimi mwenyewe namshangaa sana MKJJ wakati mwingine, yaani anakuwa kama Uhuru bwana, hauwezi kutumia nafasi hiyo kuuliza maswali magumu? Hiyo ya kusema etu "vijana wetu wapo vitani hawapaswi kukatishwa tamaa" ni lugha ya Bush ambayo amekuwa akiitumia kuhalalisha vita yake ya kihuni huko Iraq na sisi tusingependa kabisa tutumie misemo yake ya kizembe kuhalalisha vijana wetu kupelekwa vita unnecessarily.

Sasa wewe Shy hiyo taarifa ya ikulu umeitoa wapi au umeteuliwa kuwa msaidizi wa Salva? Kama hivyo ndivyo,si utewekee wazi hapa ili tukupongeze?

I can't speak much about patriotism and all that bunch of propaganda, I really think the prevalent brand of patriotism is designed to keep people in line and has nothing to do with love of country.

I want to make it clear that I do not know if there are hidden motives which I do not support, but I do support the idea of Africans taking care of their own.

Hapa tusingefanya kitu pia Waafrika tungelaumiwa, tungeacha Mfaransa aje kuweka majeshi tungeambiwa waafrika hatuwezi kumaliza mambo yetu wenyewe.

We can't win, damned if we do, damned if we dont.