Mafuriko mwezi ujao (September 2012)

[Kiranga]

sayansi inajitahidi kueleza mambo mengi but not everything.

Of course.

And that is the beauty of science. It is convergent in nature, it does not lie that it has the answer to everything.

Science has more answers than religion, but does not claim to have the answer to everything.

Religion has less answers than science, but claims to have answers to everything.

 

[Comi]

unajua nimekuwa nikifwatilia haya matheory ya sayansi yanayoeleza chanzo cha kila kitu, eti wanasayansi wanabishana wenyewe kwa facts za kisayansi halafu wakishindwa wanasema well maybe there is super natural power but that power is not god. bcoz when we say it is god it will need us to prove scientific that there is god of which we cant but there is supernatural being.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pamoja kaka

 

[Iron Lady]

Kama vile kitabu cha "Njama" kilivyo cha Willy Gamba.

kwikwikwiii far from it. njama,kisasi,hofu vya will gama huwezi kufananisha na biblia. kwa sababu kwanza muundo wake ni tofauti,haya ni masimulizi ya kisa kimoja, wakati bibliz ni masimulizi ya visa mbalimbali.
pili: mwandishi ni mmoja wakati biblia ina waandishi wengi.
tatu:lengo kuu : katika mfano wa vitabu ulivyovitaja na vingine vya sanaa waandishi hutaka kujenga jamii mpya klwa maana ya kuelimisha na kuburudisha na mengineyo. wakati bible lengo kuu ni kumjua mungu na kujenga imani kwa kujua yaliyojiri katika hiyo imani na mungu.
huwezi kamwe fananisha kitabu cha biblia na vitabu vinge vya sanaa. bible will be the bible always.other books will pass but never will the bible.

 

[Iron Lady]

Of course.

And that is the beauty of science. It is convergent in nature, it does not lie that it has the answer to everything.

Science has more answers than religion, but does not claim to have the answer to everything.

Religion has less answers than science, but claims to have answers to everything.

vice vesa is very true.

 

[Iron Lady]

pamoja kaka

kwikwiwiiwwiiwiwwi mimi sio kaka
mimi ni the iron lady. na najivunia kuwa mwanamke.though kama ningezaliwa mwanaume pia ningefurahi.

 

[Iron Lady]

Ndo maana mi nasema sijui kitu.

Na ninashangaa wanaosema wanajua mungu yupo.

hupaswi kushangaa ila jitahidi kujua ni kwa namna gani wanasema mungu yupo.
kushangaa hakutakusaidia kitu. accept to learn.
sasa wote tusemao mungu yupo tumemu experience.and this we can not prove to you using your emprical methoods.

unajua ukitaka kuwaelewa jamii fulani what is their social realities then you will never understand unless you live with them understand thier day to day activities. as as to believers of god.fanya tufanyayo uone kama hutaelewa uwepo wa mungu.
tatizo lake wewe kabla hujajifunza umeshabisha utaelewa vp.
empty your cup first to get another tea, if your cup is full you will never put another tea.

 

[Iron Lady]

[QUOTE=Kiranga;4527363
Not some inconsistent fiction.

kama science ilivyo fiction to some of the things like origin of universe and human life itself.

 

[Kiranga]

hupaswi kushangaa ila jitahidi kujua ni kwa namna gani wanasema mungu yupo.
kushangaa hakutakusaidia kitu. accept to learn.
sasa wote tusemao mungu yupo tumemu experience.and this we can not prove to you using your emprical methoods.

unajua ukitaka kuwaelewa jamii fulani what is their social realities then you will never understand unless you live with them understand thier day to day activities. as as to believers of god.fanya tufanyayo uone kama hutaelewa uwepo wa mungu.
tatizo lake wewe kabla hujajifunza umeshabisha utaelewa vp.
empty your cup first to get another tea, if your cup is full you will never put another tea.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Wewe sema unaamini mungu yupo, sina matatizo na imani hata kama unaamini kuna kabila la watu wenye macho, mikono na miguu mitatu juu ya mlima kKilimanjaro.

Ukisema unajua inabidi utoe evidence, empirical.

Wewe ndo unaehitaji kujifunza.

Mie nishajifunza all the major classic arguments for and against the existence of god, na naendelea kujifunza kila siku.

Wewe I doubt kama unamfahamu Anselm.

 

[Kiranga]

Angalau katika science tunaruhusiwa kupinga katika peer review.Kwa mtindo huu eventually ukweli utajitenga na uongo pale palipo shaka.

Katika dini mnaambiwa kuamini tu, sheepishly bila kupinga.

Maana yake kama kuna uongo ndo unabaki hivyo hivyo milele.

Watu wanaogopa kukufuru.

Hakuna anayeweza kuthibitisha kwamba mungu yupo.

 

[Kiranga]

vice vesa is very true.

No it is not tru.

Mnaambiwa mumpelekee mungu mizigo yenu yote na maswali yenu yote atawapa majibu. Dini inasema ina majibu ya kila kitu, how can you say "vice versa is true?"

Do you even understand the difference?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

kama science ilivyo fiction to some of the things like origin of universe and human life itself.

Hahahaaa kusema kweli kwenye hayo mambo sayansi haina majibu ya kuridhisha mpaka inachekesha.

It's about time wanasayansi wakubali tu kuwa mpaka sasa hawana hayo majibu kuliko kujaribu kutuambia mi nadharia iliyo nebulous.

 

[Iron Lady]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Wewe sema unaamini mungu yupo, sina matatizo na imani hata kama unaamini kuna kabila la watu wenye macho, mikono na miguu mitatu juu ya mlima kKilimanjaro.

Ukisema unajua inabidi utoe evidence, empirical.

Wewe ndo unaehitaji kujifunza.

Mie nishajifunza all the major classic arguments for and against the existence of god, na naendelea kujifunza kila siku.

Wewe I doubt kama unamfahamu Anselm.

vipi kuhusi hii?
"The argument of 'Darwin on Trial' is that we know a great deal less (about evolution) than has been claimed. In particular, we do not know how the immensely complex organ systems of plants and animals could have been created by mindless and purposeless natural processes, as Darwinists say they must have been. Darwinian theory attributes biological complexity to the accumulation of adaptive micro-mutations by natural selection, but the creative power of this hypothetical mechanism has never been demonstrated, and the fossil evidence is inconsistent with the claim that biological creation occurred in that way. The philosophically important part of the Darwinian theory - its mechanism for creating complex things that did not exist before - is therefore not really empirical science at all,
by dr.Alex Paterson
hii je?
The First Law of Thermodynamics is stated as follows: Matter and energy can be neither created nor destroyed. There are no natural processes that can alter either matter or energy in this way. This means that there is no new matter or energy coming into existence and there is no new matter or energy passing out of existence. All who state that the universe came into existence from nothing violate the first law of thermodynamics, which was established by the very scientific community who now seem willing to ignore it. In summary, this law plainly demonstrates that the universe, and all matter and energy within it, must have had a divine origin-a specific moment in which it was created by someone who was all-powerful

hii?
"Ultimately the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century. The truth is that despite the prestige of evolutionary theory and the tremendous intellectual effort directed towards reducing living systems to the confines of Darwinian thought, nature refuses to be imprisoned. In the final analysis we still know very little about how new forms of life arise. The "mystery of mysteries" - the origin of new beings on earth - is still largely as enigmatic "
Dr. Denton, Michael
Evolution: A Theory in Crisis

hizi ni baadhi tu je bado theory hii unakaa na kuiita best accepted theory kama hata wanasayansi wenyewe wanaipinga baada ya kufanya scientific test?

 

[Kiranga]

vipi kuhusi hii?
"The argument of 'Darwin on Trial' is that we know a great deal less (about evolution) than has been claimed. In particular, we do not know how the immensely complex organ systems of plants and animals could have been created by mindless and purposeless natural processes, as Darwinists say they must have been. Darwinian theory attributes biological complexity to the accumulation of adaptive micro-mutations by natural selection, but the creative power of this hypothetical mechanism has never been demonstrated, and the fossil evidence is inconsistent with the claim that biological creation occurred in that way. The philosophically important part of the Darwinian theory - its mechanism for creating complex things that did not exist before - is therefore not really empirical science at all,
by dr.Alex Paterson
hii je?
The First Law of Thermodynamics is stated as follows: Matter and energy can be neither created nor destroyed. There are no natural processes that can alter either matter or energy in this way. This means that there is no new matter or energy coming into existence and there is no new matter or energy passing out of existence. All who state that the universe came into existence from nothing violate the first law of thermodynamics, which was established by the very scientific community who now seem willing to ignore it. In summary, this law plainly demonstrates that the universe, and all matter and energy within it, must have had a divine origin-a specific moment in which it was created by someone who was all-powerful

hii?
"Ultimately the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century. The truth is that despite the prestige of evolutionary theory and the tremendous intellectual effort directed towards reducing living systems to the confines of Darwinian thought, nature refuses to be imprisoned. In the final analysis we still know very little about how new forms of life arise. The "mystery of mysteries" - the origin of new beings on earth - is still largely as enigmatic "
Dr. Denton, Michael
Evolution: A Theory in Crisis

hizi ni baadhi tu je bado theory hii unakaa na kuiita best accepted theory kama hata wanasayansi wenyewe wanaipinga baada ya kufanya scientific test?

Zote hizo naweza kukujibu kwa kituo.

For the sake of argument let's say that all of science is incomplete. Hili nimeshalisema, na mtu anayeijua sayansi hawezi kukwambia kwamba sayansi imekamilika.

Kuna watu mpaka leo wanatest theories za relativity za Einstein zilizopitishwa miaka 100 iliyopita.

So let's say Darwin was wrong, the big bang theory is wrong (actually the big bang theory is not as established as many would think, and it actually help creationists case more than scientists)

Hata tukikubali yote hayo, hujaonyesha kwamba mungu kaumba ulimwengu bado.

Halafu ukijifanya kuifuatisha sana hiyo law of conservation of energy/ first law of thermodynamics mungu wako mwenyewe atashindwa kwa sababu yeye ndiye anaye claim kutengeneza something out of nothing.

 

[Iron Lady]

Angalau katika science tunaruhusiwa kupinga katika peer review.Kwa mtindo huu eventually ukweli utajitenga na uongo pale palipo shaka.

Katika dini mnaambiwa kuamini tu, sheepishly bila kupinga.

Maana yake kama kuna uongo ndo unabaki hivyo hivyo milele.

Watu wanaogopa kukufuru.

Hakuna anayeweza kuthibitisha kwamba mungu yupo.

that was long ago when people where refused to question, mungu hamkatazi mtu kuuliza wala kuhoji, dini inaweza fanya hivyo bcoz dini ni taasisi inayoundwa na watu na kuweka principles zake but god is god haijalishi uwe katika dini au usiwe aumini au usiamini. mungu atabaki palepale
wewe kama muelewa na busara ikakuongoza unayoyasikia utayapima na kufanya majumuisho.vya kuamini utaamini vya kujenga hoja unajenga hoja.this is what i believe.na the more you ask the more you will understand.
usidhani waaminio mungu ni wapuuzi wasiofikiri la hasha.

 

[Kiranga]

Hahahaaa kusema kweli kwenye hayo mambo sayansi haina majibu ya kuridhisha mpaka inachekesha.

It's about time wanasayansi wakubali tu kuwa mpaka sasa hawana hayo majibu kuliko kujaribu kutuambia mi nadharia iliyo nebulous.

Unajua hii notion ya kwamba wanasayansi wanasema wana majibu ya kila kitu inashangaza.

Science is built around curiosity, sio authority.

Kwa mwanasayansi si aibu kusema sijui jibu la swali hili, ni aibu kusema unajua jibu wakati hujui.

Ndio maana mpaka leo watu wanazifanyia peer review papers za lbert Einstein zilizothibitishwa experimentally 1919 na Eddington. Kwa sababu it is not about who has the holy grail of truth, it is about gradually completing the puzzle. Kama Einstein alivyokuja kuimprove kwenye theories za Newton, kutatokea mtu siku moja ataweza kugundua a quantum theory itakayo reconcile quantum physics na relativity, huyu ata improve theory ya Einstein. Einstein mwenye kafa baada ya miaka mingi ya research.

Kitu kingine evolution theory, ina ma gap bado hayajawa filled mpaka leo.Watu wanatafuta majibu. Mimi siwezi kusema sayansi ni upuuzi kwa sababu haina majibu ya kila kitu na dini ndio inafaa kwa sababu imenipa ndoto ya kuwa na majibu ya kila kitu.

To the contrary. Naona angalau sayansi inaruhusu mtu kumpinga Einstein na kumfanyia peer review. Tena ukijionyesha una guts hizo kama una a strong case watu wata ku encourage kweli ufanya mambo tuone tofauti.

Dini kwa upande mwingine hairuhusu uchunguzi. Akishasema Yesu au mungu kwenye vitabu huko miaka hiyooo, ndo imetoka hiyo.

Tunakuja kuona mambo kibao yalisemwa kutokana na ukosefu wa elimu tu, na baada ya watu kuelimika vitabu vya dini vinaonekana kamba tu.

Bottom line, huwezi kuicheka sayansi kwa kutokuwa na majibu yote kwa sababu haijawahi kusema ina majibu yote.

Icheke dini kwa kutokuwa na majibu yote kwa sababu imesema kwamba ina majibu yote.

 

[Iron Lady]

Zote hizo naweza kukujibu kwa kituo.

For the sake of argument let's say that all of science is incomplete. Hili nimeshalisema, na mtu anayeijua sayansi hawezi kukwambia kwamba sayansi imekamilika.

Kuna watu mpaka leo wanatest theories za relativity za Einstein zilizopitishwa miaka 100 iliyopita.

So let's say Darwin was wrong, the big bang theory is wrong (actually the big bang theory is not as established as many would think, and it actually help creationists case more than scientists)

Hata tukikubali yote hayo, hujaonyesha kwamba mungu kaumba ulimwengu bado.

Halafu ukijifanya kuifuatisha sana hiyo law of conservation of energy/ first law of thermodynamics mungu wako mwenyewe atashindwa kwa sababu yeye ndiye anaye claim kutengeneza something out of nothing.

aha wewe si ulisema majibu yapo katika science?evolution iko sahihi? modern scientist wenyewe wanakataa sana kuhusu haya mathoery yet they have come with nothing to give answers to questions we are arguing about what created the universe?for what purpose?why are there complexity in everything but perfectly made and exist for ages? human life the origin and everything? science bado haina majibu kiranga

mimi nitakuwa na majibu atleast that god exist and he created everything in perfect way that no man can explain. ehee hii very kali.

 

[Kiranga]

that was long ago when people where refused to question, mungu hamkatazi mtu kuuliza wala kuhoji, dini inaweza fanya hivyo bcoz dini ni taasisi inayoundwa na watu na kuweka principles zake but god is god haijalishi uwe katika dini au usiwe aumini au usiamini. mungu atabaki palepale
wewe kama muelewa na busara ikakuongoza unayoyasikia utayapima na kufanya majumuisho.vya kuamini utaamini vya kujenga hoja unajenga hoja.this is what i believe.na the more you ask the more you will understand.
usidhani waaminio mungu ni wapuuzi wasiofikiri la hasha.

Kama mungu yupo, ana uwezo wote, ana upendo wote, kwa nini kuna maovu duniani?

Kwa nini kuna mafuriko, matetemeko ya radhi, watoto wanakufa na njaa, umasikini, maradhi, uhalifu etc.?

 

[Iron Lady]

Kama mungu yupo, ana uwezo wote, ana upendo wote, kwa nini kuna maovu duniani?

Kwa nini kuna mafuriko, matetemeko ya radhi, watoto wanakufa na njaa, umasikini, maradhi, uhalifu etc.?

ulisema umesoma bible tena ulisoma kimbembele na ukarudi kinyumenyume kama ulisoma kama story ya will gamba sawa.
but kama ulisoma na kuweka imani utaelewa kuwa hayo nayo hayana budo kutokea ili watu wajue kuwa there is power beyond theirs, lakini pia test of faith and mengine mengi ya kiroho ili yatimie yale yaliotabiliwa na kuandikwa na manabii.
mungu ni wa upendo na yote haya yanasababu.
wewe hapa utasemaje?

 

[Kiranga]

aha wewe si ulisema majibu yapo katika science?evolution iko sahihi? modern scientist wenyewe wanakataa sana kuhusu haya mathoery yet they have come with nothing to give answers to questions we are arguing about what created the universe?for what purpose?why are there complexity in everything but perfectly made and exist for ages? human life the origin and everything? science bado haina majibu kiranga

mimi nitakuwa na majibu atleast that god exist and he created everything in perfect way that no man can explain. ehee hii very kali.

Naweza kukwambia evolution ipo sahaihi.

Lakini for the sake of argument, hata kama si sahihi, hili hali prove kwamba mungu yupo.

Ni kama vile tumekuta mpira ndani ya nyumba. Mimi nasema "huu mpira umeletwa na John humu, kwani nimemuona alivyouleta"

Wewe unasema huu mpira lazima utakuwa umeumbwa na bibi ndani ya nyumba, kwa sababu John hawezi kuwa ameuleta humu, ona hapa na hapa. Unanionyesha jinsi gani hii theory yangu ya kwamba John kauleta mpira ndani ya nyumba ilivyo mbovu.

Mimi nakwambia sawa, inawezekana nimekosea, labda John hajauleta mpira ndani ya nyumba.

Wewe unasema unaona, John hajauleta ndani ya nyumba, na kama John hajauleta ndani ya nyumba basi lazima umefumwa na bibi.

Mimi nakwambia hata kama John hajauleta ndani ya nyumba, hilo halionyeshi mpira umefumwa na bibi. Itabidi unionyeshe ushahidi kwamba mpira umefumwa na bibi.

Wewe unakazania kusema John hajauleta ndani ya nyumba kwa hiyo ni lazima uwe umefumwa na bibi. A logical "Non Sequitur"

It does not follow kwamba kama mpira haujaletwa ndani ya nyumba na John, basi lazima utakuwa umefumwa na bibi. Inawezekana kuna mtu mwingine ambaye hatujamtambua bado kaleta mpira.

It does not follow that, if evolution is wrong, then creation must be the beginning of life. You must show the evidence of creation separately. Because for all we know evolution and creation could both be wrong.

Ukisema

mimi nitakuwa na majibu atleast that god exist and he created everything in perfect way that no man can explain. ehee hii very kali.

Una betray jinsi ulivyo simpleton tu.Unaogopa ku tackle some deep questions.

 

[Kiranga]

ulisema umesoma bible tena ulisoma kimbembele na ukarudi kinyumenyume kama ulisoma kama story ya will gamba sawa.
but kama ulisoma na kuweka imani utaelewa kuwa hayo nayo hayana budo kutokea ili watu wajue kuwa there is power beyond theirs, lakini pia test of faith and mengine mengi ya kiroho ili yatimie yale yaliotabiliwa na kuandikwa na manabii.
mungu ni wa upendo na yote haya yanasababu.
wewe hapa utasemaje?

Sababu yake ni nini?

Ina maana mungu mwenye uwezo wote na upendo wote alishindwa kuumba ulimwengu usio maovu?

Kama alishindwa basi si mungu muweza yote huyo.

Kama aliweza ila hakutaka tu, basi si mungu mwenye upendo wote huyo.

Halafu jifunze ku quote hapa JF. Unaweza kunifanya nionekane na argue against myself, which would look really bizarre.