Mafuriko mwezi ujao (September 2012)

[H1N1]

Tatizo huelewi kwamba just as faith is the realm of religion, knowledge is the realm of science.

Wewe ndiye usiye elewa na kuelewa sio fani yako kabisa,kama knowledge is the ream of science,kwa nini unahoji habari ya watu ambao ream yao ni faith,kwako wewe watu wenye faith hawana knowledge vivyo hivyo wenye knowledge hawana faith ? Kweli wanasayansi wa kukariri mambo safari yetu ni ngumu na ndefu sana...Kwa hiyo kudai empirical evidence ya kuwepo kwa Mungu ni swala la aina gani ?

 

[Kiranga]

Hahahaaaa...hiyo bado hainishawishi kuhusu hiyo nadharia ya evolution.

Naweza kusema wanasayansi bado wana safari ndefu sana katika kuielezea hiyo dhana.

Yaani unakataa kwamba bacteria wame develop resistance kwa earlier antibiotics?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Yaani unakataa kwamba bacteria wame develop resistance kwa earlier antibiotics?

Nakataa hiyo development ya resistance kuwa ndiyo evolution kwa sababu hata binadamu ukitumia sana aina fulani ya dawa unajenga tolerance ambayo in essence haina tofauti na resistance.

Sasa kama mimi natumia Ambien kunisaidia kwenda kulala na baada ya muda ninakuwa sioni faida yake ina maana nitakuwa nime evolve?

 

[Kiranga]

Nakataa hiyo development ya resistance kuwa ndiyo evolution kwa sababu hata binadamu ukitumia sana aina fulani ya dawa unajenga tolerance ambayo in essence haina tofauti na resistance.

Sasa kama mimi natumia Ambien kunisaidia kwenda kulala na baada ya muda ninakuwa sioni faida yake ina maana nitakuwa nime evolve?

Sasa kama unakubali kwamba binadamu na bacteria wana develop natural resistance kwa dawa kimsingi unakubaliana na evolution.

Unajua tatizo watu wakifikiri evolution wanafikiria mabadiliko ya miaka mabilioni yatokee mara moja.

Trait ya bacteria kuwa resistanT kwa antibiotic inatokana na ukweli kwamba, kama unaanza na bacteria 100 wa Malaria, na unatumia Chloroquine, 75 wakafa kwa sababu hawana DNA zenye advantage ya kuvumilia sana Chloroquine,na wakabaki 25 wenye DNA yenye uwezo wa kuvumilia sana Chloroquine, hao 25 watakaobaki watazaliana wenyewe kwa wenyewe na kufanya kiazaizi chao kitakachofuata kuwa a bit more resistanmt to Chloroquine kuliko kilichopita.

Na wao labda 70% yao watauawa na 30% ku survive wakiwa na resistance kubwa zaidi ya kizazi kilichopita.

Na wao labda 60% watauawa na Chloroquine kwa sababu ni resistant zaidi ya waliopita, hivyo hivyo wanaenda wakirithishana hii trait ya ku resist Chloroquine, mpaka bacteria wanakuwa totally resistant.

Evolution by natural selection, survival of the "fittest".

Give them hundred of million of years and a condusive environment and they evolve to more developed life forms, like you carbon based biped.

 

[Kiranga]

Wewe ndiye usiye elewa na kuelewa sio fani yako kabisa,kama knowledge is the ream of science,kwa nini unahoji habari ya watu ambao ream yao ni faith,kwako wewe watu wenye faith hawana knowledge vivyo hivyo wenye knowledge hawana faith ? Kweli wanasayansi wa kukariri mambo safari yetu ni ngumu na ndefu sana...Kwa hiyo kudai empirical evidence ya kuwepo kwa Mungu ni swala la aina gani ?

Kwa sababu watu wa faith wana claim faith ni knowledge.

Rather,faith is the absence of knowledge.

Wewe unajua ama unaamini kwamba mungu yupo?

 

[H1N1]

nina IMANI, lakini,sijui kama una knowledge kuhusu hilo neno IMANI au ndo kukariri kwako utasema ni absence of knowledge,sijui ni kamusi ya wapi yenye tafsiri hiyo. ni nini kipimo cha knowledge, na ni nani anaweza hitimisha kuwa hapa sasa tumepata knowledge kuhusu kitu fulani wakati kila siku watu wanajifunza ? is it fair to call it a knowledge ? labda tuite blind faith...

 

[H1N1]

Sasa kama unakubali kwamba binadamu na bacteria wana develop natural resistance kwa dawa kimsingi unakubaliana na evolution.

Unajua tatizo watu wakifikiri evolution wanafikiria mabadiliko ya miaka mabilioni yatokee mara moja.

Trait ya bacteria kuwa resistanT kwa antibiotic inatokana na ukweli kwamba, kama unaanza na bacteria 100 wa Malaria, na unatumia Chloroquine, 75 wakafa kwa sababu hawana DNA zenye advantage ya kuvumilia sana Chloroquine,na wakabaki 25 wenye DNA yenye uwezo wa kuvumilia sana Chloroquine, hao 25 watakaobaki watazaliana wenyewe kwa wenyewe na kufanya kiazaizi chao kitakachofuata kuwa a bit more resistanmt to Chloroquine kuliko kilichopita.

Na wao labda 70% yao watauawa na 30% ku survive wakiwa na resistance kubwa zaidi ya kizazi kilichopita.

Na wao labda 60% watauawa na Chloroquine kwa sababu ni resistant zaidi ya waliopita, hivyo hivyo wanaenda wakirithishana hii trait ya ku resist Chloroquine, mpaka bacteria wanakuwa totally resistant.

Evolution by natural selection, survival of the "fittest".

Give them hundred of million of years and a condusive environment and they evolve to more developed life forms, like you carbon based biped.

Poor scientific explanation,wakati wa utafiti hamkugundua kuwa kuna bacteria ambao DNA yao inatofautiana na wengine hata kama ni wachache,kwa IMANI mkatengeneza dawa inayoangamiza aina fulani ya bacteria na kuacha wengine wakiinjoy maisha,baada ya kushindwa huko mnakuja na hoja kuwa hiyo ni evolution,wakati ukweli ni kuwa hao bacteria walikuwa tofauti na wale mliowafanyia utafiti na kuwatengenezea dawa, Kiranga, una tatizo gani wakati hakuna evolution hapo bali palikosekana elimu juu ya aina fulani ya bakteria ?

HAPO MIMI NAONA UNAIKAANGA SAYANSI YAKO KULIKO kuthibitisha hicho unachokiita evolution kwenye bakteria,makosa ya kiutafiti kwako ndiyo evolution eeh ?

 

[H1N1]

Sasa kama unakubali kwamba binadamu na bacteria wana develop natural resistance kwa dawa kimsingi unakubaliana na evolution.

Unajua tatizo watu wakifikiri evolution wanafikiria mabadiliko ya miaka mabilioni yatokee mara moja.

Trait ya bacteria kuwa resistanT kwa antibiotic inatokana na ukweli kwamba, kama unaanza na bacteria 100 wa Malaria, na unatumia Chloroquine, 75 wakafa kwa sababu hawana DNA zenye advantage ya kuvumilia sana Chloroquine,na wakabaki 25 wenye DNA yenye uwezo wa kuvumilia sana Chloroquine, hao 25 watakaobaki watazaliana wenyewe kwa wenyewe na kufanya kiazaizi chao kitakachofuata kuwa a bit more resistanmt to Chloroquine kuliko kilichopita.

Na wao labda 70% yao watauawa na 30% ku survive wakiwa na resistance kubwa zaidi ya kizazi kilichopita.

Na wao labda 60% watauawa na Chloroquine kwa sababu ni resistant zaidi ya waliopita, hivyo hivyo wanaenda wakirithishana hii trait ya ku resist Chloroquine, mpaka bacteria wanakuwa totally resistant.

Evolution by natural selection, survival of the "fittest".

Give them hundred of million of years and a condusive environment and they evolve to more developed life forms, like you carbon based biped.

Hapo ni kweli, kwa sababu bakteria watakaobaki wakizaliana ni wale ambao sayansi haikuwajua wakaendelea kupeta kwa kuwa wanasayansi walitengeneza silaha wa kuangamiza wale wenye 'blood group O' na kuacha wengine wenye muundo tofauti wa damu. Ni Mungu 'aliumba viumbe kwa jinsi zake' bakteria kwa jinsi zake,nyoka kwa jinsi zake, ndiyo maana hata sumu za panya haziuwi kila panya,watengenezaji wanajua sumu ipi inaua panya aina ipi,hata kama wanafanana kwa mtazamo wa macho,lakini maumbile ki DNA yanatofautiana,vivyo hivyo kwa bakteria.

 

[Nkwesa Makambo]

Mjadala japo umeelekea upande mwingine lakini elimu itolewayo ni bomba kweli kweli,Kiranga, H1N1, Nyani Ngabu,raha tupu,elimu kwa kwenda mbele

 

[Nkwesa Makambo]

Poor scientific explanation,wakati wa utafiti hamkugundua kuwa kuna bacteria ambao DNA yao inatofautiana na wengine hata kama ni wachache,kwa IMANI mkatengeneza dawa inayoangamiza aina fulani ya bacteria na kuacha wengine wakiinjoy maisha,baada ya kushindwa huko mnakuja na hoja kuwa hiyo ni evolution,wakati ukweli ni kuwa hao bacteria walikuwa tofauti na wale mliowafanyia utafiti na kuwatengenezea dawa, Kiranga, una tatizo gani wakati hakuna evolution hapo bali palikosekana elimu juu ya aina fulani ya bakteria ?

HAPO MIMI NAONA UNAIKAANGA SAYANSI YAKO KULIKO kuthibitisha hicho unachokiita evolution kwenye bakteria,makosa ya kiutafiti kwako ndiyo evolution eeh ?

Bravo. ngoja nami nijifunze zaidi,naona hapa pana hoja nzuri na nzito juu ya ushahidi wa evolution, kwamba kutojua DNA ya baadhi ya wadudu ndiko kunafanya waendelee kuishi na kuzaliana na si kwamba ni evolution, mmmh !!!??? kiranga,mwaga elimu mkuu

 

[chamakh]

mnakasha uendelee ila Dar leo kumekuwa na showers za hapa na pale na hali ya mawingu imetanda, sasa sijui ndio kusema hayo mafuriko yanakuja au sala za mtoa mada na wenzie ndo zimepunguza mafuriko na rasharasha tu ndo zinadondoka, all in all tuvute subira maana yawezekana na upepo tu wa baharini wa kina Isack umetokea bara Hindi ndio unaleta haya manyunyu kwetu

 

[chamakh]

Sasa kama unakubali kwamba binadamu na bacteria wana develop natural resistance kwa dawa kimsingi unakubaliana na evolution.

Unajua tatizo watu wakifikiri evolution wanafikiria mabadiliko ya miaka mabilioni yatokee mara moja.

Trait ya bacteria kuwa resistanT kwa antibiotic inatokana na ukweli kwamba, kama unaanza na bacteria 100 wa Malaria, na unatumia Chloroquine, 75 wakafa kwa sababu hawana DNA zenye advantage ya kuvumilia sana Chloroquine,na wakabaki 25 wenye DNA yenye uwezo wa kuvumilia sana Chloroquine, hao 25 watakaobaki watazaliana wenyewe kwa wenyewe na kufanya kiazaizi chao kitakachofuata kuwa a bit more resistanmt to Chloroquine kuliko kilichopita.

Na wao labda 70% yao watauawa na 30% ku survive wakiwa na resistance kubwa zaidi ya kizazi kilichopita.

Na wao labda 60% watauawa na Chloroquine kwa sababu ni resistant zaidi ya waliopita, hivyo hivyo wanaenda wakirithishana hii trait ya ku resist Chloroquine, mpaka bacteria wanakuwa totally resistant.

Evolution by natural selection, survival of the "fittest".

Give them hundred of million of years and a condusive environment and they evolve to more developed life forms, like you carbon based biped.

dude, maelezo yako yanaeleweka kidogo tatizo umechanganya kiasi, bacteria hawasababishi malaria na wala malaria haisababishwi wala kuenezwa na bacteria

 

[King Kong III]

Mwezi wa tisa umeanza na leo dar kumeanza mvua ngoja tuyaone hayo mafuriko.....@ TBJoshua wa Bongo.

 

[Kiranga]

Poor scientific explanation,wakati wa utafiti hamkugundua kuwa kuna bacteria ambao DNA yao inatofautiana na wengine hata kama ni wachache,kwa IMANI mkatengeneza dawa inayoangamiza aina fulani ya bacteria na kuacha wengine wakiinjoy maisha,baada ya kushindwa huko mnakuja na hoja kuwa hiyo ni evolution,wakati ukweli ni kuwa hao bacteria walikuwa tofauti na wale mliowafanyia utafiti na kuwatengenezea dawa, Kiranga, una tatizo gani wakati hakuna evolution hapo bali palikosekana elimu juu ya aina fulani ya bakteria ?

HAPO MIMI NAONA UNAIKAANGA SAYANSI YAKO KULIKO kuthibitisha hicho unachokiita evolution kwenye bakteria,makosa ya kiutafiti kwako ndiyo evolution eeh ?

Ukisema "wakati wa utafiti hamkugundua kuwa kuna bacteria ambao DNA yao inatofautiana na wengine..."

Wnasayansi hawaoni aibu kukwambia kwamba "hatukugundua". Kwa sababu kusema "hatukugundua" si jambo la aibu kwa sababu.

1. Sayansi haijawahi kusema kwamba ina majibu ya maswali yote.
2. Kama umesoma na kunielewa vizuri, nimeelezea resistance ya antibiotic ilivyo evolve na dawa.Maana yake hiyo resistance ime evolve na dawa, ilikuwa ndogo sana wakati wa research kiasi cha kuwa negligible au undetectable. It is not true that one can just look at DNA and tell what it is going to do even if scientists had the resources to look at all the DNA of all the bacteria, which they don't. DNA is like formula. You can look at a chemical formula and not know what it is capable of until you actually experiment with it.
3. Unaposema palikosekana elimu juu ya aina fulani ya bacteria una imply kwamba hii resistance ilikuwa full blown from the get go, something I have shown not to be the case above.

Chapisha papers ku refute the current scientific knowledge kwamba kuna trend ya bacterial resistance of antibiotics.

Did you even read the Wiki? Au ubishi jadi tu?

 

[Kiranga]

dude, maelezo yako yanaeleweka kidogo tatizo umechanganya kiasi, bacteria hawasababishi malaria na wala malaria haisababishwi wala kuenezwa na bacteria

I stand corrected.

Much obliged.Sit down and have a drink on me dude.

Malaria is not caused by bacteria, substitute "microorganism" for bacteria and the same principle applies.

Where are the doctors and biologists in this thread?

 

[Kiranga]

Hapo ni kweli, kwa sababu bakteria watakaobaki wakizaliana ni wale ambao sayansi haikuwajua wakaendelea kupeta kwa kuwa wanasayansi walitengeneza silaha wa kuangamiza wale wenye 'blood group O' na kuacha wengine wenye muundo tofauti wa damu. Ni Mungu 'aliumba viumbe kwa jinsi zake' bakteria kwa jinsi zake,nyoka kwa jinsi zake, ndiyo maana hata sumu za panya haziuwi kila panya,watengenezaji wanajua sumu ipi inaua panya aina ipi,hata kama wanafanana kwa mtazamo wa macho,lakini maumbile ki DNA yanatofautiana,vivyo hivyo kwa bakteria.

Hujatuonyesha kwamba mungu kaumba bacteria.

Kwamba sayansi imeshindwa kuwaua bacteria wote, haina maana kwamba mungu lazima ndo awe sababu.

 

[Kiranga]

nina IMANI, lakini,sijui kama una knowledge kuhusu hilo neno IMANI au ndo kukariri kwako utasema ni absence of knowledge,sijui ni kamusi ya wapi yenye tafsiri hiyo. ni nini kipimo cha knowledge, na ni nani anaweza hitimisha kuwa hapa sasa tumepata knowledge kuhusu kitu fulani wakati kila siku watu wanajifunza ? is it fair to call it a knowledge ? labda tuite blind faith...

Unaiamini biblia?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Sasa kama unakubali kwamba binadamu na bacteria wana develop natural resistance kwa dawa kimsingi unakubaliana na evolution.

Hapana, sikubaliani na evolution inayo state kwamba over time wanyama hubadilika a la kutoka nyani (no pun intended) hadi kuwa binadamu.

Unajua tatizo watu wakifikiri evolution wanafikiria mabadiliko ya miaka mabilioni yatokee mara moja.

Hayo mabadiliko yanayochukua mabilioni ya miaka ndiyo ninayokataa mimi. Ona hata terms zinazotumika...'millions'...'billions'. Come on now...science is all about specificity.

Trait ya bacteria kuwa resistanT kwa antibiotic inatokana na ukweli kwamba, kama unaanza na bacteria 100 wa Malaria, na unatumia Chloroquine, 75 wakafa kwa sababu hawana DNA zenye advantage ya kuvumilia sana Chloroquine,na wakabaki 25 wenye DNA yenye uwezo wa kuvumilia sana Chloroquine, hao 25 watakaobaki watazaliana wenyewe kwa wenyewe na kufanya kiazaizi chao kitakachofuata kuwa a bit more resistanmt to Chloroquine kuliko kilichopita.

Nadhani H1N1 kalijibu vizuri tu hili. Tatizo linaweza kuwa labda wewe (sio wewe as a person) una limited knowledge ya complexity na diversity ya hao bacteria na kudhani kwamba wote wako sawa wakati yawezekana kabisa isiwe hivyo.

Na wao labda 70% yao watauawa na 30% ku survive wakiwa na resistance kubwa zaidi ya kizazi kilichopita.

Na wao labda 60% watauawa na Chloroquine kwa sababu ni resistant zaidi ya waliopita, hivyo hivyo wanaenda wakirithishana hii trait ya ku resist Chloroquine, mpaka bacteria wanakuwa totally resistant.

In human terms we call this stereotyping. Characteristic stereotyping to be exact.

Evolution by natural selection, survival of the "fittest".

Give them hundred of million of years and a condusive environment and they evolve to more developed life forms, like you carbon based biped.

Hundred million years...oh my!

 

[Kiranga]

Hapana, sikubaliani na evolution inayo state kwamba over time wanyama hubadilika a la kutoka nyani (no pun intended) hadi binadamu.

Ukishakubali kwamba bacteria katika miaka 20 wanaweza ku develop resistance kwa antibiotics, mabadiliko hayo hayo ukiyapa a few billions of years yanabadili microorganism kuwa watu. The fundamental principle is the same, the difference is just scale. A few years produces minuscule and hardly detectable changes, a few billion years changes some microorganism into higher life forms.

Hayo mabadiliko yanayochukua mabilioni ya miaka ndiyo ninayokataa mimi. Ona hata terms zinazotumika...'millions'...'billions'. Come on now...science is all about specificity.

Within billions there are millions, and evolution is a gradual process, so you would take millions of years from one step to the second, a hundred million years to go to another stage and a few billions to leap from single celled organism to a developed lifeform.

And science is not about specificity, it is rather about the pursuit of specificity. The quantum symmetric of Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle as manifested in the asymptotic wave particle duality prevents specificity to a specific level, and the study of all phenomena at the Planck scale (Where is Planckscale when you need him?).

Nadhani H1N1 kalijibu vizuri tu hili. Tatizo linaweza kuwa labda wewe (sio wewe as a person) una limited knowledge ya complexity na diversity ya hao bacteria na kudhani kwamba wote wako sawa wakati yawezekana kabisa isiwe hivyo.

Wapi nimesema wote wako sawa? Kama wote wangekuwa sawa si wote wangeuawa na dawa moja? Mimi ninachosema ni kinyume kabisa ya unachosema nasema.

Wewe unasema mimi nafikiri kwamba wote wako sawa.

Wakati mimi nakwambia kwamba, sababu inayofanya wengine wauawe na dawa na wengine wabakie kuzaa wenye resistance zaidi precisely because wote hawako sawa na kuna wengine wana tofauti katika DNA zao. I gave you the Wiki with all that info. Evolution rests largely on random mutation, which, being random, is surely guaranteed to produce different strains of the same species.

Utasemaje nasema kwamba wote wako sawa? Nini kinakufanya ufikiri hivi?

In human terms we call this stereotyping. Characteristic stereotyping to be exact.

All of science is stereotyping and calibrating. When you write a mathematical equation that's stereotyping right there. When you write a chemical equation that's stereotyping right there.Your biological taxonomy is stereotyping.

Characteristic stereotyping is not always a good thing. The periodic table is nothing but characteristic stereotyping.The problem is you are biased by focusing on the negative aspect of characteristic stereotyping without knowing that without it you wouldn't be using the internet today. The internet runs on technologies that are founded in a science that was built out of characteristic stereotyping.

The notion that all stereotyping is bad is itself a bad stereotyping of stereotypes.

Hundred million years...oh my!

Or even fiddy for that matter in this bidniz.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Ukishakubali kwamba bacteria katika miaka 20 wanaweza ku develop resistance kwa antibiotics, mabadiliko hayo hayo ukiyapa a few billions of years yanabadili microorganism kuwa watu. The fundamental principle is the same, the difference is just scale. A few years produces minuscule and hardly detectable changes, a few billion years changes some microorganism into higher life forms.

That right there is a statement of fact. So I ask, where is the proof?