Kwanini Vitu Vinadondoka? (Newton vs Einstein)

[Mokaze]

Swali langu nimeuliza hivi hivi tangu mwanzo

Nilichofanya ni kukupa maelezo marefu ya kitu hicho hicho

Bado hujajibu "kwanini vitu vinaonekana kudondoka?"

Halafu usitumie hii dhana potofu kuwa "Hii bado ni theory"
Most of what we know kuhusu ulimwengu tumetoa from the theories

Thus why huwa zinakuwa replaced na better theory as time goes on

Lakini hio haindoi uwezo wa "theory" Ku "explain" na "Ku predict"

General Relativity ni "theory" ila imeweza kuelezea "Oribit ya mercury" na Ku "predict" uwepo wa "Gravitational waves"

Swali bado lipo pale pale "kwanini vitu vinaonekana kudondoka?"

Architect mwenyewe kaiita hiyo General relativity ni theory wewe nani upingane naye??.

Sasa na wewe tuambie "kudondoka" ni kitu gani??, kabla ya kuingia kwenye swali lako la kwanini vitu vinaonekana kudondoka.

Mfano, Kwanini gari inaonekana kutembea, kutembea ni nini??

 

[Waaai]

Haya sio mawazo yangu..
Unaweza kunielezea kwanini vitu vinaonekana kudondoka?

Siwezi mkuu

 

[Kuchwizzy]

Architect mwenyewe kaiita hiyo General relativity ni theory wewe nani upingane naye??.

Sasa na wewe tuambie "kudondoka" ni kitu gani??, kabla ya kuingia kwenye swali lako la kwanini vitu vinaonekana kudondoka.

Mfano, Kwanini gari inaonekana kutembea, kutembea ni nini??

Hivi mnasomaga kwanza kabla ya Ku reply?
Niletee hio comment niliyosema General Relativity sio theory ili nijue kama na argue na mwenye akili "timamu" au lah

 

[Kuchwizzy]

Wabongo wengi kwenye mijadala ya namna hii bado sana

Sio kila hoja inabidi ulete ubishi na u "team"

Swali dogo kwanini vitu "vinaonekana kudondoka" kulingana na General Relativity

"Mtu anakuuliza tena kudondoka ni nini?"

Kama hujui jibu si unapita kimya tu
Mnatia hasira bana

 

[Kuchwizzy]

Kiranga

Njoo bro at least naweza pata jibu kutoka kwako

 

[renamaizo]

Rafik yngu amedata bwana mumusamehe .............
Utazan ubongo umeganda mumusamehe.............
Chakula amekula mnel mumusmehe............
Ona anavowka wika mtaan ni bomba la sooo..........

 

[Kuchwizzy]

Mkuu mimi ni kilaza tu wa haya makitu niliyakimbiaga kitambo olevel

Sijawahi kuisikia hiyo theory yako na wengi wetu humu labda ndio tunaanza kuisikia............Kama ya Newton yenyewe ilituchanganya darasani itakua hii umeigusia tu hapa
Labda aje mjuzi anayielewa


Lakini......
Kama law ya Newton inasema vitu vinavutwa chini na gravity, na hii chupa ikiwa imeshikiliwa huoni kwamba ina maanisha ukitoboa chupa maji yatapata pakuvutwa na na hiyo gravity?

Na unapo iachia chupa itamaanisha sasa maji na chupa vyote vina vutwa na gravity kwenda chini.......kwa muktadha huo inamaana sasa gravity haita vuta tena maji kupita matundu ya chupa kwakuwa chupa na maji vyote sasa vinavutwa chini

Hapa twende ki layman layman kama itawezekana

Wewe unatumia hoja gani kwamba kwakuwa maji yanaacha kutoka kwenye matundu kuhalalisha hayavutwi na gravity?
Hatuwezi kuikwepa kuirejea gravity kwasababu ndio inayojulikana kwa sasa

Kwa mujibu wa Newton mvuto wa kwenda chini unategemea na uzito wa kitu mfano wa lift iwapo lift itafeli na kuanza kuvutwa kwenda chini itategemea ndani ya lift kuna nini
Kama kuna vitu vyepesi kuliko lift inamaana kadiri umbali ulivyo ndivyo hivi vitu vitaonekana vinaelea kwenye lift kwasababu lift itavutwa kwa speed kubwa kuliko vitu vyepesi
Na ikiwa ndani ya lift kuna vitu vizito kuliko lift basi vitaongeza speed ya lift kwenda chini na havitaonekana kuelea

Sioni ni wapi huu mfano wako unapingana na law ya Newton
Nisaidie kuelewa ni nini kilipaswa kutokea kwa mujibu wa mifano yako ili sasa kuthibitisha gravity ipo

Kitu kinachochanganya hapa ni Ku assume existence ya Gravitation ili kuelezea Gravitation

Tutazame mfano wa "mtu anaye fall kwenye elevator"

Hii tunaiita "Free fall motion"

Sasa whether kuna "Force inayomvuta kuja chini" au "Hakuna Force yoyote inayo mvuta" ndio swali kwanza la kujibu

Kulijibu hili swali,turudi kwenye "first law of motion" au "Law of inertia"

Hii law inasema (roughly) kama hakuna any external force inayo act kwenye certain frame of reference (eneo lolote lile utakalo tumia Ku "observe ulimwengu")

Basi sheria zote za Physics zitakua sawa kabisa kwa aina hio ya Frame of reference

Frame of reference ambayo hakuna " Force" yoyote inayo act kwake tunaiita "Inertial Frame of reference"

Na sifa kuu ya inertial frame of references ni kwamba sheria zote za physics zinakua "valid" kwa kila inertial frame of reference

Means kama tukiamua Ku perform "Physical Experiment" yoyote ile tukiwa katika inertial frame of references mbili tofauti tutapata the same result

Shika hii point kuwa "inertial frame of reference" ni frame of reference ambayo hakuna "force" yoyote inayo "act" kwake...


Sasa imagines watu wawili tofauti Let's say "Juma" na "Asha"
Asha yupo mbali kabisa na dunia na mbali kabisa na kitu chochote chenye Mass...
I mean yupo kwenye "Outer space"

Hapa "Asha" hayupo subjected na Force yoyote ile...
So tunasema yupo kwenye inertial Frame of reference (F=0)

Na "Juma" ndiyo yupo hapa kwenye elevator inayo dondoka

Wote hawa wata feel weightlessness

Sasa conclusion ya muhimu hapa nikua,huyu "Juma" akiamua Ku perform "Physical experiment" yoyote ile ndani ya hii elevator inayoonekana kuanguka atapata majibu Yale Yale atakayo pata "Asha" kama naye akiamua Ku perform the same experiment

Implication yake ni nini?

Kama hakuna tofauti ya matokeo atakayo pata Asha na Juma
Basi wote tunasema wapo kwenye inertial Frame of references

Kumbuka Asha hayupo subjected na force yoyote ile...
Kama wote wapo kwenye inertial Frame of references basi hata Juma na elevator yake hayupo subjected na force yoyote ile (F=0)

Kama hayupo subjected na Force basi hii "downward acceleration' tunayomuona nayo inahitaji " maelezo mengine tofauti "

Cause hayupo subjected na Force yoyote ile so hakuna reason ya yeye Ku accelerate downwards
Cause a=0 kwa inertial frame of reference

Kwa logic hii "Elevator" hai accelerate chini kama "common sense inavyotwambia"

Ipo "stationary" hai move....

Na hio ndio "Equivalent principle"
Ukielewa hii umeelewa msingi wa General Relativity

General Relativity ni ngumu kuielewa cause inabidi utoke nje ya common sense ulizozizoea

Na nahisi wengi hawapo familiar nayo ndo maana napata ugumu huu kujibiwa swali langu


So turudi kwenye point kama "Juma" na "Elevator" hawa accelerate downwards tunaelezea vipi hiki kitendo cha "elevator" kuanguka chini wakati logic inatwambia elevator hai accelerate kuja chini


General Relativity imetupa majibu na majibu hayo nimeshindwa kuyaelewa thus why nimeuliza hili swali kwa walisoma General Relativity

Hint kidogo niliyopata ni kwamba "Mda ndio unaelezea kwanini kitu kudondoka"

Yaani "forward movement into future" inayotupa hii illusion of "falling"

Hapa ndipo sijaelewa


Matokeo yake nimeuliza in wrong platform ambao wengi hawapo familiar na hio General Relativity

 

[Nibiru]

Newton Hesabu zake zilikua sawa katika kuelezea gravity (Predict), ila alishindwa kueleza gravity ni kitu gani. Einstein aliweza kuelezea what is gravity using idea that massive objects bends space time fabric, ni concepts ambazao zipo beyond scope of average physics students.

 

[Makanyaga]

Ok, Maelezo marefu lakini namwamini Newton kuliko wewe.

Muulize swali kwanza kuwa hiyo anayosema "general relativity" inasemaje?

 

[Kuchwizzy]

Newton Hesabu zake zilikua sawa katika kuelezea gravity (Predict), ila alishindwa kueleza gravity ni kitu gani. Einstein aliweza kuelezea what is gravity using idea that massive objects bends space time fabric, ni concepts ambazao zipo beyond scope of average physics students.

Finally nimepata mtu atakaye nielewa
Inawezekana 90% ya wachangiaji hapa hawajui hata msingi wa huu Uzi


Newton hakuwahi kuelezea Gravity na how it works

Alitupa estimated equation ambayo still tunaitumia for every day calculations

Lakini hakutupa maelezo....so hatuwezi tumia theory yake kuelezea mechanism ya Gravitation na why and how things fall

Watu wameshindwa kutambua swali hapa na wanaona ni swali rahisi kwasababu kila Siku wamekua waki li "take for granted" kwa kusema kua "kitu kinaanguka" kwasababu "kinavutwa na gravity" which are "empty words" devoid of meaning


I hope mkuu unaeweza kuacha mawili matatu kulingana na uelewa wako wa General Relativity kuwa "how exactly things seem to fall?"

 

[Kuchwizzy]

Muulize swali kwanza kuwa hiyo anayosema "general relativity" inasemaje?

General Relativity ni nini kwanza kabla sijaelezea inasemaje?

 

[Mokaze]

Hivi mnasomaga kwanza kabla ya Ku reply?
Niletee hio comment niliyosema General Relativity sio theory ili nijue kama na argue na mwenye akili "timamu" au lah

Umeanza matusi??!!

Law sio sio theory, kitu kikiwa theory bado kunakuwepo na nafasi ya kuprove it wrong or right, kama umeamua na kuona kwamba inafaa kutumika unatakiwa kwanza u proove ukweli wake kabla hujaitetea na kuitumua.

Sasa swali lako la mwanzo lingekuwa hivi nini mechanism ya kitu kunachoitwa gravitation na sio kwanini vitu vinaonekana kudondoka??. Mimi nisiye na akili timamu nimekurekebisha, na kama ungaliuliza kwa namna hiyo basi wala nisingejibu kitu.

You are a "bit smart" and you still have along way to go. Mimi sikutukani bali nakupa moyo.

 

[Nibiru]

I hope mkuu unaeweza kuacha mawili matatu kulingana na uelewa wako wa General Relativity kuwa "how exactly things seem to fall?"

Sawa mkuu ngoja nitajaribu kupitia nondo zangu, kisha ntajaribu kuelezea in layman language. Maana hii concept ya gravity kila ikipata jibu ina leta swali jipya.
Newton aliielezea kimahesabu lakini alishindwa kusema how it works, Einstean aliweza kusema how it works by using relativity theories na kusema Massive object bends spacetime fabrics,
ila akashwindwa kusema spacetime fabric inatengenezwa na nini, ili lilipatiwa mwangaza na string theory ambayo sio rahisi kuielewa.
Kifupi kila tunapotaka kujua ukweli tunazaidi gundua sisi ni vilaza zaidi, uikifatilia theories za 10 dimensions utagundua kuwa kuna vitu sisi binadamu hatuwezi vielewa mpaka vimeng'enywe na higher dimensions.

unaweza pitia bellow links for later discussions.

Ask Ethan: If Mass Curves Spacetime, How Does It Un-Curve Again?

If spacetime is like a fabric, and mass bends it, what flattens it back out again?

www.forbes.com

Ask Ethan: Could The Fabric Of Spacetime Be Defective?

In addition to matter and energy, the Universe might contain topological defects. If so, what would be its effects on the fabric of spacetime?

www.forbes.com

This Is Why Einstein Knew That Gravity Must Bend Light

General Relativity had to be right. Here's how we knew.

www.forbes.com

 

[azyzy omary]

Du haya Mambo ni pasua kichwa San

 

[Mayu]

Kitu kinachochanganya hapa ni Ku assume existence ya Gravitation ili kuelezea Gravitation

Tutazame mfano wa "mtu anaye fall kwenye elevator"

Hii tunaiita "Free fall motion"

Sasa whether kuna "Force inayomvuta kuja chini" au "Hakuna Force yoyote inayo mvuta" ndio swali kwanza la kujibu

Kulijibu hili swali,turudi kwenye "first law of motion" au "Law of inertia"

Hii law inasema (roughly) kama hakuna any external force inayo act kwenye certain frame of reference (eneo lolote lile utakalo tumia Ku "observe ulimwengu")

Basi sheria zote za Physics zitakua sawa kabisa kwa aina hio ya Frame of reference

Frame of reference ambayo hakuna " Force" yoyote inayo act kwake tunaiita "Inertial Frame of reference"

Na sifa kuu ya inertial frame of references ni kwamba sheria zote za physics zinakua "valid" kwa kila inertial frame of reference

Means kama tukiamua Ku perform "Physical Experiment" yoyote ile tukiwa katika inertial frame of references mbili tofauti tutapata the same result

Shika hii point kuwa "inertial frame of reference" ni frame of reference ambayo hakuna "force" yoyote inayo "act" kwake...


Sasa imagines watu wawili tofauti Let's say "Juma" na "Asha"
Asha yupo mbali kabisa na dunia na mbali kabisa na kitu chochote chenye Mass...
I mean yupo kwenye "Outer space"

Hapa "Asha" hayupo subjected na Force yoyote ile...
So tunasema yupo kwenye inertial Frame of reference (F=0)

Na "Juma" ndiyo yupo hapa kwenye elevator inayo dondoka

Wote hawa wata feel weightlessness

Sasa conclusion ya muhimu hapa nikua,huyu "Juma" akiamua Ku perform "Physical experiment" yoyote ile ndani ya hii elevator inayoonekana kuanguka atapata majibu Yale Yale atakayo pata "Asha" kama naye akiamua Ku perform the same experiment

Implication yake ni nini?

Kama hakuna tofauti ya matokeo atakayo pata Asha na Juma
Basi wote tunasema wapo kwenye inertial Frame of references

Kumbuka Asha hayupo subjected na force yoyote ile...
Kama wote wapo kwenye inertial Frame of references basi hata Juma na elevator yake hayupo subjected na force yoyote ile (F=0)

Kama hayupo subjected na Force basi hii "downward acceleration' tunayomuona nayo inahitaji " maelezo mengine tofauti "

Cause hayupo subjected na Force yoyote ile so hakuna reason ya yeye Ku accelerate downwards
Cause a=0 kwa inertial frame of reference

Kwa logic hii "Elevator" hai accelerate chini kama "common sense inavyotwambia"

Ipo "stationary" hai move....

Na hio ndio "Equivalent principle"
Ukielewa hii umeelewa msingi wa General Relativity

General Relativity ni ngumu kuielewa cause inabidi utoke nje ya common sense ulizozizoea

Na nahisi wengi hawapo familiar nayo ndo maana napata ugumu huu kujibiwa swali langu


So turudi kwenye point kama "Juma" na "Elevator" hawa accelerate downwards tunaelezea vipi hiki kitendo cha "elevator" kuanguka chini wakati logic inatwambia elevator hai accelerate kuja chini


General Relativity imetupa majibu na majibu hayo nimeshindwa kuyaelewa thus why nimeuliza hili swali kwa walisoma General Relativity

Hint kidogo niliyopata ni kwamba "Mda ndio unaelezea kwanini kitu kudondoka"

Yaani "forward movement into future" inayotupa hii illusion of "falling"

Hapa ndipo sijaelewa


Matokeo yake nimeuliza in wrong platform ambao wengi hawapo familiar na hio General Relativity

Mkuu itoshe tu kusema nimeshindwa kabisa kutoka nje ya comnonsense ya kawaida ya gravity nilioimeza

Nafatilia mjadala kwa karibu labda nitaokota kitu

 

[Kuchwizzy]

Mkuu itoshe tu kusema nimeshindwa kabisa kutoka nje ya comnonsense ya kawaida ya gravity nilioimeza

Nafatilia mjadala kwa karibu labda nitaokota kitu

Sawa

 

[Kiranga]

Kiranga

Njoo bro at least naweza pata jibu kutoka kwako

Mkuu, kwanza kabisa umewatusi watu wote wanaosoma thread hii.

Kabla ya kuwaomba msaada, ondoa tusi hili.

Umeandika

"Unashangaa ulichosoma najua, yote hayo ni kwasababu wewe una IQ isiyozidi 100 so huwezi fikiria nje ya common sense"

I find that highly offensive and kind of contradicting the point of this thread.

Unataka majadiliano na watu wasio na IQ inayozidi 100 na wasioweza kufikiria nje ya common sense?

I happen to be reading another Relativity book right now.The book is "The Most Perfect Theory: A Century of Geniuses and the Battle Over General Relativity"cha Profesa wa Astrophysics Pedro Pereira wa Oxford.Kinachambua mambo haya kwa kirefu kuanzia Classical Newtonian physics, mpaka Relativity Revolution ya Einstein, na confirmation ya Sir Arthur Eddington kwenye solar eclipse ya 1919, mpaka leo na mustakabali wa fizikia miaka ijayo. Na nimekuwa nikisoma vitabu kama hivi kwa miaka karibu 27 sasa.So I probably have something to offer here.

But I feel slighted.

 

[Kuchwizzy]

Mkuu, kwanza kabisa umewatusi watu wote wanaosoma thread hii.

Kabla ya kuwaomba msaada, ondoa tusi hili.

Umeandika

"Unashangaa ulichosoma najua, yote hayo ni kwasababu wewe una IQ isiyozidi 100 so huwezi fikiria nje ya common sense"

I find that highly offensive and kind of contradicting the point of this thread.

Unataka majadiliano na watu wasio na IQ inayozidi 100 na wasioweza kufikiria nje ya common sense?

I happen to be reading another Relativity book right now.The book is "The Most Perfect Theory: A Century of Geniuses and the Battle Over General Relativity"cha Profesa wa Astrophysics Pedro Pereira wa Oxford.Kinachambua mambo haya kwa kirefu kuanzia Classical Newtonian physics, mpaka Relativity Revolution ya Einstein, na confirmation ya Sir Arthur Eddington kwenye solar eclipse ya 1919, mpaka leo na mustakabali wa fizikia miaka ijayo. Na nimekuwa nikisoma vitabu kama hivi kwa miaka karibu 27 sasa.So I probably have something to offer here.

But I feel slighted.

Sorry sana bro kama hio statement imekosea wachangiaji kwa namna moja au nyingine

Ila nililenga kuonyesha kwanini ni "natural" kwa msomaji kuona hio concept haingii akilini probably kwasababu ana "average IQ ya 100"
Nadhani hii ndio average IQ ya normal person uki compare na IQ ya Einstein


Natangulisha shukrani zangu sana kwa kuitikia wito wangu

Kitu kinachonisumbua kuhusu General Relativity ni kivipi inaelezea "kuanguka kwa kitu"

Naipenda theory but bahati mbaya siwezi kuitumia kuelezea swali Dogo kama hili

Karibu sana mkuu....I hope kwako sitotoka bila mwangaza kidogo

 

[Kuchwizzy]

Mkuu, kwanza kabisa umewatusi watu wote wanaosoma thread hii.

Kabla ya kuwaomba msaada, ondoa tusi hili.

Umeandika

"Unashangaa ulichosoma najua, yote hayo ni kwasababu wewe una IQ isiyozidi 100 so huwezi fikiria nje ya common sense"

I find that highly offensive and kind of contradicting the point of this thread.

Unataka majadiliano na watu wasio na IQ inayozidi 100 na wasioweza kufikiria nje ya common sense?

I happen to be reading another Relativity book right now.The book is "The Most Perfect Theory: A Century of Geniuses and the Battle Over General Relativity"cha Profesa wa Astrophysics Pedro Pereira wa Oxford.Kinachambua mambo haya kwa kirefu kuanzia Classical Newtonian physics, mpaka Relativity Revolution ya Einstein, na confirmation ya Sir Arthur Eddington kwenye solar eclipse ya 1919, mpaka leo na mustakabali wa fizikia miaka ijayo. Na nimekuwa nikisoma vitabu kama hivi kwa miaka karibu 27 sasa.So I probably have something to offer here.

But I feel slighted.

Nime ondoa hio "paragraph" kwenye bandiko langu
Karibu mkuu

 

[Kichuguu]

Kwanini vitu vinadondoka?

Hili swali kwa muda mrefu nilikua nalichukulia poa (take for granted) lakini sasa nakili kuwa ni moja kati ya maswali magumu zaidi kuwahi kuulizwa na binadamu.

Ukiacha Programming kitu kingine ninachokipenda ni Modern Physics, nasoma basics tu niweze kuelezea ulimwengu ninao interact nao kila siku baada ya Computer

So nilikua naamini kabisa kuwa naweza kuelezea kwanini vitu vinadondoka? Kwanini jiwe linarudi chini ukilirusha juu?
Kwanini apple linaanguka juu ya mti?

Isaac Newton alitupa Formula sahihi(kiasi) ila maelezo ya "uongo" kuhusu kwanini vitu vinadondoka

Kwa mujibu wa Sir Isaac Newton, jiwe linadondoka kwasababu kwasababu ya nguvu ya uvutano kati yake na Dunia. nguvu hii ya uvutano ndiyo inayofanya jiwe livutwe chini kwa kasi ya mita 9.8 kwa kila sekunde ya kila sekunde (acceleration due to gravity)

Na hayo maelezo ya uongo nimekua nikiyaamini mpaka hapo juzi nilipopata nafasi ya kujifunza General Relativity. Na nilichogundua ni kuwa, siwezi tena kuelezea kwa nini jiwe au kitu chochote kinadondoka

Naamini kuna watu smart humu waliosoma General Relativity au kuielewa, wanaweza kutuelezea kwanini vitu vinaanguka..

Kwanini Newton hakua sahihi?

Newton hakua sahihi kwa sababu hii

Imagine umeshika chupa iliyojaa maji (umeinyanyua)
ukiachia hii chupa, itandondoka chini sio?

Hapana, chupa haitondondoka



Chupa haitondoka kwasababu hakuna nguvu yoyote inayoivuta hio chupa. Ku prove hili, tutoboe matundu mawili katikati ya hio chupa
Kipindi tumeishikilia (maji yatamwagika chini kupitia yale matundu) ila tutakapo iachia maji hayatomwagika tena hata kama chupa ina matundu. so hakuna force yoyote inayovuta yale maji tena.

View attachment 1724844​

Kwa mjibu wa Newton first law of motion, hii chupa itaganda pale pale kwasabau kama F=ma , m=mass ya chupa ya maji , a= acceleration na F= 0 (kwasababu hakuna nguvu yoyote inayoivuta) basi a=0 (haitodondoka)
kumbuka m > 0 (chupa always ina mass)

Sasa swali linabaki kwanini hii chupa tunaiona ikishuka kutoka juu mpaka chini?
Au kwanini vitu vinaonekana kudondoka?

UPDATE:
Wazee naona kama baadhi hamjaelewa swali au lengo la huu uzi

Swali ni hili "Kwanini vitu vinadondoka?"


NOTE: usitumie classical mechanics kujibu hili swali thus why nimeanza kuonyesha hapo juu kwanini classical mechanics haiwezi kujibu swali hilo

Kama kweli una interest na physics basi rudi shule ukasome physics; siyo kuleta bla bla hapa! Ungekuwa unaijua namba hii hapa chini, usingeleta pumba hizi kwenye server za JF