Kwanini Vitu Vinadondoka? (Newton vs Einstein)

[lloyd996]

Nimetumia mfano wa chupa ya maji kwasababu ni experiment rahisi unayoweza kuifanya hata ukiwa nyumbani

The moment umeiachia chupa hakuna force yoyote inayo act pale hence net force iliyokua inavuta maji chini inakua zero

Kama mfano wa chupa umekuchanganya.....imagine mtu anaye anguka kwenye lift (Elevator)
Huyu mtu ata feel weightless sawa sawa kabisa na astronaut aliye kwenye Space
In both scenarios hakuna force yoyote inayo act kwao

So kulingana na Newton first law(f=ma), kama net force ni 0, basi hata acceleration ni 0 (cause mass haiwezi kuwa zero)

Baadhi ya watu hapa bado wanatumia Classical mechanics kujibu hili swali bila hata kusoma nilichoandika

Swali ni kama F=0 na a=0 kwanini chupa inaonekana kushuka chini?
Ili swali limejibiwa na General Relativity lakini maelezo yake ni very confusing thus why nipo hapa kupata mtu aliyeelewa


Jibu ni , "Things fall because their future belongs to the ground"
Hapa ndio sielewi, yaani in short mda ndio unaosababisha vitu kuanguka but sijui jinsi gani walivyofika kwenye hii conclusion

Bahati mbaya hapa najibiwa na watu ambao hawajawahi kusoma hata hio General Relativity
Kwa yoyote atakayenielewa much thanks

Mkuu mi nakujibu kupitia classical physics hyo hyo na jibu linajibika. Kinachoproduce acceleration na direction ya acceleration ni net force sio one force. Kwahyo kama hakuna force inayoact upward dhidi ya chupa means kuidrive upward basi net force itakuwa ma-mg( g= acceleration due to gravity)=mA( net acceleration). Sasa tunakuja hapo a=0 hence mA=-mg( free fall)

 

[lloyd996]

Ni complicated sana japo zinakupa "complete" explanation ya "motion" na "Gravitation"

Tatizo nililoliona hapa ni lile lile unalolisema hapo

Zinachanganya sana,kwa mtu ambaye hajawa exposed na Special au General Relativity before na Mathematical Models zilizotumika

Anaweza kukuona wewe kama kilaza...
Kumbe the opposite is true

Swali kwanini "vitu vinaonekana kudondoka" ni gumu mno kama ukitambua Classical Mechanics haiwezi kujibu hili swali

Naamini watapatikana watu walio uelewa huu Uzi....hata kama ni mwakani
Na itakua faida kwa wengine


Kwanini vitu "vinaonekana kudondoka?"

Wewe ndo mwenye tatizo umeuliza swali kwa kucompare halafu hutaki kusikiliza hoja za newton. Swali lako ilitakiwa uulize according to modern physics may be kwann vitu vinaonekana kudondoka. Hakuna mtu wa classical physics angehangaika kujibu.

 

[Teknocrat]

Kwa Mara nyingine hapa unaonyesha kuingia kwenye mjadala bila hata kuelewa kipi kinajadiliwa

Point yangu ni kuonyesha kwanini "Equivalent Principle" ina "prove" logically kuwa "kitu chochote kilicho kwenye free fall" ni inertial frame of reference sawa sawa kabisa na kitu chochote kilicho mbali na force yoyote ile / sawa kabisa na kitu kilicho tulia kwenye ombwe tupu (outer space)

So kiuhalisia hai accelerate downwards kama tunavyokiona,kipo stationary

Inibidi tuje na maelezo mengine ya how "kinafika chini" wakati kipo stationary


General Relativity imetoa maelezo yake na hayo maelezo ndiyo yaliyofanya nije hapa
Cause kwa kiasi yamenichanganya

But from what I learned ni kuwa
Temporal part ya spacetime continuum ndiyo inayo tupa hii illusion of falling

Teknologist hapa juu katoa jibu zuri kuwa "vitu vina fata Geodesic"
Hii kwenye non euclidian geometry ni "straight line" inayo appear kuwa "curved"

The question is "vipi kitu kina move along geodesic wakati kipo stationary"

Nikipata mda Nita weka comment yake hapo kwenye bandiko langu

Cause hayo ndio aina ya majibu yaliyotakiwa kwenye huu Uzi

Tatizo wewe ume focus kwenye classical Mechanics wakati tayari nimeshajaribu kuonyesha why hatupaswi kuitumia

On my second year Uni, tulikuwa na module ya Advance Scientific Principle and Reaserch, Lecturer alikuwa anapenda sana kutukewa video za Theoretical Physicist Michio Kaku
Lengo sio kujifunza General Relativity sababu mycourse was nothing to do with that, bali ni kujifunza kueleelezea complex issues in simple language na pia kujiuliza maswali magumu,
enjoy the clip:

 

[Kuchwizzy]

Wewe ndo mwenye tatizo umeuliza swali kwa kucompare halafu hutaki kusikiliza hoja za newton. Swali lako ilitakiwa uulize according to modern physics may be kwann vitu vinaonekana kudondoka. Hakuna mtu wa classical physics angehangaika kujibu.

Kama umesoma vizuri bandiko langu mpaka mwisho utaona kuwa sikuja kupata view ya Newtonian Mechanics

Na nilijua kuna watu wangetaka kunijubu kwa kutumia classical mechanics
Thus why nimejaribu kuonyesha hapo juu kwanini classical mechanics haiwezi kujibu wala kutumika kujibu hili swali

Cause ime miss the "whole point" of Gravitation

Gravitation sio force kama ilivyo kuwa "assumed" na Newton

Ni something entirely different

So sikuja hapa kupata view ya classical mechanics kama ulivyoshindwa kugundua kwenye comment yako

 

[Kuchwizzy]

Mkuu mi nakujibu kupitia classical physics hyo hyo na jibu linajibika. Kinachoproduce acceleration na direction ya acceleration ni net force sio one force. Kwahyo kama hakuna force inayoact upward dhidi ya chupa means kuidrive upward basi net force itakuwa ma-mg( g= acceleration due to gravity)=mA( net acceleration). Sasa tunakuja hapo a=0 hence mA=-mg( free fall)

Comment yako ni mfano mzuri wa watu walioshindwa kabisa kuelewa swali langu

Swali ni "kwanini vitu vina appear kudondoka"?

Newton's law of gravitation haiwezi kujibu hili swali

Kwanini ?
Kwasababu haiwezi kuelezea " Gravitation " ni nini?

So inabidi I "assume" gravitation kwanza ili ijibu ili swali?

Nikiuliza kwanini "vitu vinadondoka?"

Utasema ni kwasababu ya "Gravitation pull ya dunia"?

Nikiuliza tena source ya hio "gravitation pull ya dunia" ni nini?

Utanambia ni "mass ya dunia"

Nikikwambia kivipi mass ya dunia inatengeneza hio "Gravitation pull" ?

Hapa ndipo Newton aliposahau kukujibu

Sasa kama hatuwezi kujibu "Gravitation" inatoka wapi,tuna hakika gani kuwa tunaweza kujibu "kwanini vitu vinadondoka"

Tuna hitaji complete theory inakayo tupa jibu kwanza "hio Gravitation" ni nini kabla haijaelezea "kwanini vitu vinadondoka"

Point nyingine uliyoshindwa kuielewa ni "Free falling body"

Ni mfano mzuri wa inertial frame of reference

Imagine umeshika simu yako na unadondoka kwenye ghorofa refu mno (mwendo wa siku 2 mpaka unafika chini)

Ndani ya "hio moment" hakuna "physical experiment" yoyote ile utakayo Fanya "ignore air resistance" ambayo itatofautiana na "physical experiment" hio hio itakayo fanywa na "physics lab" iliyo kwenye "outer space" ambapo hakuna force yoyote ile inayo act...

Implication ya hio "thought experiment" ni nini?

Ni Ku prove kuwa "free falling man" hana tofauti na "floating astronaut in deep space" wote hawa "experience any force" thus why wana feel "weightlessness"

Hakuna "pull" wala "acceleration"

Tunahitaji maelezo tofauti ya why kina appear kushuka chini wakati hakuna force yoyote inayoivuta


Haya sio tafiti wala maneno yangu
Ni Equivalent principle ya "General Relativity"

Kama ungeelewa points hizo usingeangaika tena na Classical mechanics

Aidha ungenijibu kwa kutumia GR au ungekaa kimya

 

[Mokaze]

Universal law of gravitational

Sent using Jamii Forums mobile app

Note; Universal law of gravitation.

Cf, Gravitational force , gravitational law.

 

[Tlg]

Watu wa modern Physics wana tumia energy kubwa sana kutafta namna za kuzi pruv wrong fomular na law za mtaalam newton

Kwenye physcs ukiwasoma vizuri utagundua kua Eistain ni Negation ya Newton au unaweza sema Opposite

Mechanical Physics ni Opposite ya Modern na zile newtons law zinaenda oppsite na principle of reletivity hadi kufika kwenye time traviling zote zina pishana na law za Isaav newto

Kama unahisi hukubatiani na newton na alitoa maelezo ya uongo basi tambua wewe c wakwanza wala si wamwisho na hata Eistein kaacha theory nyingi za kupruv zile law kua ni wrong lakini hazijatoboa


Kwenye list ya binadamu walio badiri maisha ya binadamu kwa muda wote yangu dunia ianze asie nabii wa wa mungu ninyeye pekeake kwenye tatu bora kiwa na Muhammad S.A.W na Yesu massiah...

Dont mess with isaac he is more than jus a genius ndio maana kuna baadh ya makabila huko uguriki wanaamini alikua ni binadamu asie wakawaida ...

Soma vizuri principle pf releativity ilivyo eleze free fall ndio utajua kwanini newton anabaki kua newton.

newton was right katika namna yake (in a very limited way ) but general relativity simply is more general kuliko ma laws ya newton.

so sheria za bwana newton still ni very relevant hata leo kwenye mambo mengi tu.

 

[Tlg]

Jamaa inabidi arudie mambo ya relative motion na projectile motion kuhusu relative velocity na terminal velocity za free falling objcets ataelewa kwanini hyo logic ni flawed.

Maji bado yanadondoka ila yanakua na relative velocity against hyo chupa kupata resultant. Ila mwimgine anaweza argue kuwa hayo maji na chupa yata collide humo ndani kupata total momentum ambayo ita treat hvyo vitu viwili kma body moja.

Kuhusu hvo zimaji vinavyochuruzika nje hvyo nanvyo theory ya relative motion bado inakua applied. Velocity ya chupa ukiidondosha itakua kubwa kuliko ya maji yanayochuruzika. Hvyo yanachwa nyuma lakini bado yatadondoka tu. Kwani ukiidondosha chupa hayo maji yanayochuruzika hayafiki chini?

Ukitumia theory ya projectile motion of a free falling body utaona mass (uzito) unaathiri speed ya kitu kudondoka na speed yake. Unategemea kweli vitone vya maji vilivyotoka kwenye chupa (sasa vipo kma independent bodies) vitakua na velocity sawa na chupa yenyewe yenye uzito zaidi ya mara 10 ya vitonye?
View attachment 1724911

unatudanganya aisee mkuu, mass ya kitu haiathiri free fall motion, ndimu na nanasi vitaanguka kwa velocity sawa kabisa in absence of air resistance hata newton third equation of motion inaonesha hilo v=sqrt(2gh) kwa free fall. wewe ndo inabidi urudi kusoma newtons laws na equations vizuri inaonekana hukuzielewa.

 

[Tlg]

Kweli Gravitation sio force na ili iwe force lazima u suffix neno force, na inakuwa "Gravitational force" ni sawa na useme friction sio force na ili iwe force nilazima u suffix neno force na inakuwa "frictional force".

Huna haja ya ku deal na Quantum mechanics wakati Newtonian mechanics (classical) bado ni valid na ndio maana satellites zinarushwa kila uchao na space missions zinafanywa kwa kuzingatia Newtonian mechanics.

wewe unachanganya madesa mkuu quantum mechanics, newtonian mechanics na general relativity ni vitu vitatu tofauti. nadhani hapa mada imebase kwenye newton na na einstein yaani newtonian gravity na general relativity theory.


and by the way upo sahihi kwenye swala satellites kurushwa angani lakini operation ya baadhi ya hizi satellites mfano GPS ( global navigation satellites) ikitumia newtonian physics itatupa position za uongo sana aisee ndiomaana wantumia general relativity kuobtain position kwenye gps

"Vitu vinadondoka"--- kifupi sio kudondoka bali ni kuvutana na hii ni governed by the universal gravitation law, ni kwamba kitu chenye mass ndigo ndicho kinachoonekana kudondoka (kuvutwa) na kile chenye mass kubwa hakionekani kwasababu acceleration yake ni ndogo mno almost zero.

Ma=-mA, M is much greater than m and A is much greater than a.

 

[Tlg]

Newtonian mechanics ni kwa sababu ya objects zenye mass kubwa na spidi ndogo wakati relativity ni kwa particles zenye mass ndogo sana na spidi kubwa sana (spidi ya mwanga).

unazingua wewe relativity ni kwaajili ya object zenye small masses? unapozungumzia stars, black holes unaona hivi vitu vinasmall masses kweli??

 

[Kuchwizzy]

unazingua wewe relativity ni kwaajili ya object zenye small masses? unapozungumzia stars, black holes unaona hivi vitu vinasmall masses kweli??

Nashukuru mzee...at least umekuja kuni "rescue"

 

[Kichuguu]

unazingua wewe relativity ni kwaajili ya object zenye small masses? unapozungumzia stars, black holes unaona hivi vitu vinasmall masses kweli??

Neno particle haina maana ya kuwa volumeless; inategemea na frame of reference na speed. Report zote zinazoonyesha starts ku-obey relativity ni kuhusu zile hypervelocity stars tu, na tena ni kwa kiwango kidogo sana, mwandishi mmoja alikiri kuwa inahitaji accuracy kubwa kwenye observations. Stars hizo zina speed ya kama1300000m/s ambayo pamoja na kuwa ni kubwa sana kwetu, bado ni chiniya speed of light ya 300000000m/s .

 

[Ng'wanamangilingili]

ha

Sometimes science is like stori za Eric shigongo

hapana, science ina proof sio mere story

 

[Tlg]

Neno particle haina maana ya kuwa volumeless; inategemea na frame of reference na speed. Report zote zinazoonyesha starts ku-obey relativity ni kuhusu zile hypervelocity stars tu, na tena ni kwa kiwango kidogo sana, mwandishi mmoja alikiri kuwa inahitaji accuracy kubwa kwenye observations. Stars hizo zina speed ya kama1300000m/s ambayo pamoja na kuwa ni kubwa sana kwetu, bado ni chiniya speed of light ya 300000000m/s .

sasa mbona upo kwenye self contradiction umesema relativity ina govern vitu vynye mass ndogo hafu una mention stars sahizi? unless ilikuwa ni kosa la kiuandishi haukumaanisha ulicho andika mwanzo.

 

[Kuchwizzy]

Neno particle haina maana ya kuwa volumeless; inategemea na frame of reference na speed. Report zote zinazoonyesha starts ku-obey relativity ni kuhusu zile hypervelocity stars tu, na tena ni kwa kiwango kidogo sana, mwandishi mmoja alikiri kuwa inahitaji accuracy kubwa kwenye observations. Stars hizo zina speed ya kama1300000m/s ambayo pamoja na kuwa ni kubwa sana kwetu, bado ni chiniya speed of light ya 300000000m/s .

No offense Mzee...ila umeelewa ulichokiandika hapo?

 

[lloyd996]

Comment yako ni mfano mzuri wa watu walioshindwa kabisa kuelewa swali langu

Swali ni "kwanini vitu vina appear kudondoka"?

Newton's law of gravitation haiwezi kujibu hili swali

Kwanini ?
Kwasababu haiwezi kuelezea " Gravitation " ni nini?

So inabidi I "assume" gravitation kwanza ili ijibu ili swali?

Nikiuliza kwanini "vitu vinadondoka?"

Utasema ni kwasababu ya "Gravitation pull ya dunia"?

Nikiuliza tena source ya hio "gravitation pull ya dunia" ni nini?

Utanambia ni "mass ya dunia"

Nikikwambia kivipi mass ya dunia inatengeneza hio "Gravitation pull" ?

Hapa ndipo Newton aliposahau kukujibu

Sasa kama hatuwezi kujibu "Gravitation" inatoka wapi,tuna hakika gani kuwa tunaweza kujibu "kwanini vitu vinadondoka"

Tuna hitaji complete theory inakayo tupa jibu kwanza "hio Gravitation" ni nini kabla haijaelezea "kwanini vitu vinadondoka"

Point nyingine uliyoshindwa kuielewa ni "Free falling body"

Ni mfano mzuri wa inertial frame of reference

Imagine umeshika simu yako na unadondoka kwenye ghorofa refu mno (mwendo wa siku 2 mpaka unafika chini)

Ndani ya "hio moment" hakuna "physical experiment" yoyote ile utakayo Fanya "ignore air resistance" ambayo itatofautiana na "physical experiment" hio hio itakayo fanywa na "physics lab" iliyo kwenye "outer space" ambapo hakuna force yoyote ile inayo act...

Implication ya hio "thought experiment" ni nini?

Ni Ku prove kuwa "free falling man" hana tofauti na "floating astronaut in deep space" wote hawa "experience any force" thus why wana feel "weightlessness"

Hakuna "pull" wala "acceleration"

Tunahitaji maelezo tofauti ya why kina appear kushuka chini wakati hakuna force yoyote inayoivuta


Haya sio tafiti wala maneno yangu
Ni Equivalent principle ya "General Relativity"

Kama ungeelewa points hizo usingeangaika tena na Classical mechanics

Aidha ungenijibu kwa kutumia GR au ungekaa kimya

Mi nasikia lab ya Newton iliungua zikapona kurasa 3 tu cha kitabu chake may be aliielezea.