In DEFENCE of LOWASSA (Warioba & Butiku on it)

[William J. Malecela]

Mkuu FMES!

Judge Warioba hakufukuzwa kazi na Mzee Mwinyi.....muda ulikwisha awamu liiyofuata akachaguliwa PM mwingine kwa mujibu ya katiba yetu na kwa ridhaa ya Rais....

Mkuu hiyo ni kwa uelewa wako mkuu, Sumaye alimaliza muda akapewa tena kazi hiyo, asingerudi kisiasa angekuwa amefukuzwa kazi mkuu, maana Warioba alipewa kazi ya uwaziri wa kawaida wa serikali za mitaaa na akakubali, kama alikuwa amemaliza muda, basi kisiasa asingekubali kuwa waziri wa kawaida mkuu, anyways ishu hapa ni kubwa kuliko hii mkuu, ngoja tukate ishus hapa!

 

[SYLLOGIST!]

Pundit,
Big-up!

There will be alot of cicular reasoning, public prosecution started way b4, and the failure of oversight from the committee clearly shows and changes the status quo...Warioba and Butiku are clearly saying this has yield nothing but a public(injustice) humiliation,hawamtetei LOWASSA. Haya ndiyo Mazingaombwe tunayoyasema.

Now What? Kesi ya madai kutoka kwa Walipa kodi?

Asante.

 

[Pundit]

Pundit,

Lowassa, amefukuzwa kazi na nani? Hakufukuzwa kazi na Bunge wala Mahakama, kwa hiyo hoja za Due Process, kwenye the ishu ni illusions tupu, kama sio imaginations, if not ze comedy

Issue ya due process hailetwi kwa sababu Lowassa kaondoka kwenye Premiership, issue inaletwa kwa sababu ripoti imeandikwa na damning implications kwa Lowassa bila hata Lowassa kupewa fursa ya kujibu tuhuma.

Whether we are talking about a high court case, parliamentary probe, or a school foodfight, fair hearing of both parties is necessary to fairness and due process/ rule of law.If we agree on this then there is little discussion.If you can dispute that, then there can be a possible discussion of the nitty gritties.

 

[Kigoma]

Mkuu hiyo ni kwa uelewa wako mkuu, Sumaye alimaliza muda akapewa tena kazi hiyo, asingerudi kisiasa angekuwa amefukuzwa kazi mkuu, maana lipewa kazi ya uwaziri wa kawaida wa serikali za mitaaa na akakubali, kama alikuwa amemaliza muda, basi kisiasa asingekubali kuwa waziri wa kawaida mkuu, anyways ishu hapa ni kubwa kuliko hii mkuu, ngoja tukate ishus hapa!

Mkuu FMES!

Nakuaminia uwezo wako wa kukata ishu....jinsi unavyoijua CCM, seikali na nchi yetu HIVYO unajua kwanini Sumaye alirudishwa katika awamu zote mbili.....

So far Judge Warioba is the second longest serving PM in TZ's history....

Nakubaliana kutofautiana na wewe kimawazo....

 

[William J. Malecela]

ES,

Lowassa amejiuzulu on the floor of bunge watu wote tumeona TVT
Sasa Mzee unaniambia Lowassa kafukuzwa kazi imeripotiwa wapi?

Lowassa, alipewa kazi ya u-Waziri Mkuu na rais wa jamhuri, kwa hiyo Resignation yake pale bungeni ilikuwa ni political responsibility tu kwa bunge na legally haikuwa na any-strengh, wala implications

Ni kukubaliwa kwake kujiuzulu na rais ndio kunamaliza all the Legal questions kama zipo, maana nina-aasume kuwa hazipo, kwa sababu ndiye aliyemchagua in the first place, sasa kama ameridhika na ku-resign kwake sisi wananchi na hsa kina Warioba na Butiku, wana tatizo gani na hasa wewe?

 

[Pundit]

ES,

Lowassa amejiuzulu on the floor of bunge watu wote tumeona TVT
Sasa Mzee unaniambia Lowassa kafukuzwa kazi imeripotiwa wapi?

Lowassa, alipewa kazi ya u-Waziri Mkuu na rais wa jamhuri, kwa hiyo Resignation yake pale bungeni ilikuwa ni political responsibility tu kwa bunge na legally haikuwa na any-strengh,

Ni kukubaliwa kwake kujiuzulu na rais ndio kunamaliza all the questions, kwa sababu ndiye aliyemchagua in the first place, sasa kama ameridhika na ku-resign kwake sisi wananchi na hsa kina Warioba na Butiku, wana tatizo gani na hasa wewe?

Mimi sina matatizo na incident ya Lowassa kama nilivyo state, tatizo langu ni kuwa rule of law haikufuatwa.Technicalities kama hizi kesho na keshokutwa zitakuja kutugharimu sana

Tatizo watu wanafocus kwenye incident, not the process na principles.Partially kwa sababu kuna animosity sana towards Lowassa, na partially kwa sababu Lowassa anajulikana ni corrupt, na partially kwa sababu Watanzania tumezoea majibu rahisi kwa issues complex (he is corrupt, gather the evidence and lets crucify him on the bunge floor without even getting his side of the story) basi hii flaw ya kamati kutofuata due process iankuwa overlooked.

This is a sad precedent.I am so glad Warioba is talking against this despite the political wind of the moment.It takes courage to say that.

 

[Rev.Kishoka]

Lowassa, alipewa kazi ya u-Waziri Mkuu na rais wa jamhuri, kwa hiyo Resignation yake pale bungeni ilikuwa ni political responsibility tu kwa bunge na legally haikuwa na any-strengh,

Ni kukubaliwa kwake kujiuzulu na rais ndio kunamaliza all the questions, kwa sababu ndiye aliyemchagua in the first place, sasa kama ameridhika na ku-resign kwake sisi wananchi na hsa kina Warioba na Butiku, wana tatizo gani na hasa wewe?

Mzee ES,

With that statement kuwa Raisi alikubali kujiuzulu kwake, ina maana kuwa Raisi ni mshiriki katika mtafuruku huu! Ina maana raisi kampa ruksa kuondoka madarakani bila kujibu tuhuma kama Waziri Mkuu na kiongozi wa Serikali.

Kwa nini Rais hakumrudisha ajibu hoja Bungeni kwanza kabla ya kukimbilia kukubalikujiuzulu? Him resigning is not an admision of kosa, bali ni kukwepa political prssure and outcomes.

Huku ndiko kunakofanya ripoti ya Mwakyembe ionekane dhaifu kisheria maana Lowassa anapeta bila kutoa majibu ya msingi kwa nini alitoa maamuzi mabovu! unless kuna proof ya criminal intent na benefits, then tutamuona Lowassa Kivukoni akiwa na Pingu au akiandamana na Nimrod Mkono na utitiri wa mawakili!

I hope Bunge litamtaka Lowassa atoe maelezo kwa nini alifanya alichofanya kama njia moja ya kulijadili hili suala.

As of this moment let us not savor the champaigne or wine, we have lost the credible piece of the whole case!

 

[SYLLOGIST!]

Wakuu,
My belief this issue is going to be turned over to conspiracy theorist. There is more to come, MONDULI GATES perhaps! Mtu mwenye hela kama lowassa huku akijua lukuki haya yanamjia unafikiri atakuwa anafurukuta vipi?

Do you think he had a hand in this? Broadly?

Asante

 

[William J. Malecela]

Issue ya due process inaletwa kwa sababu ripoti imeandikwa na damning implications kwa Lowassa bila hata Lowassa kupewa fursa ya kujibu tuhuma.

Bunge limeridhishwa na maelezo ya kamati yake, kuhusiana na sababu ilizozitoa kamati teule za kwa nini haikumuita Waziri mkuu kujieleza, ambazo zinatokana na mazingara magumu ya madaraka mazito aliyokuwa nayo Waziri Mkuu wa zamani wakati wa uchunguzi huo, Bunge letu halihitaji kujieleza kwa chombo chochote kuhusiana na uamuzi wake kwa sababu haikumhukumu Lowassa kwenye sheria kutokana na ripoti hiyo, isipokuwa Lowassa mwenyewe aliamua kuikimbia ripoti hiyo bila ya ku-raise legal ishus ambazo anajaribu kuwatumia kina Warioba na Butiku sasa kuzi-raise,

Bunge lilipomsimamisha Zitto, halikuwa responsible for anybody ingawa lilikiuka haki ya Zitto kama mbunge, kwa kutokubali kusikiliza hoja yake ya msingi kama sheria ya bunge inavyodai, na hilo lilithibitishwa na rais alipokubali kuunda tume ya madini baadaye ambayo ilikuwa ni hoja ya msingi ya Zitto, Warioba na Butiku kwenye hilo la Zitto kusimamishwa mbona hawakusema haya ya Due Process?

Lowassa, amekimbia kivuli chake mwenyewe na rais ameridhika na kukimbia kwake, sasa Due Process has nothing to do na hizi ishus za kisiasa mkuu Pundit!

 

[Pundit]

Bunge limeridhishwa na maelezo ya kamati yake, kuhusiana na sababu ilizozitoa kamati teule za kwa nini haikumuita Waziri mkuu kujieleza, ambazo zinatokana na mazingara magumu ya madaraka mazito aliyokuwa nayo Waziri Mkuu wa zamani wakati wa uchunguzi huo, Bunge letu halihitaji kujieleza kwa chombo chochote kuhusiana na uamuzi wake kwa sababu haikumhukumu Lowassa kwenye sheria kutokana na ripoti hiyo, isipokuwa Lowassa mwenyewe aliamua kuikimbia ripoti hiyo bila ya ku-raise legal ishus ambazo anajaribu kuwatumia kina Warioba na Butiku sasa kuzi-raise,

Bunge lilipomsimamisha Zitto, halikuwa responsible for anybody ingawa lilikiuka haki ya Zitto kama mbunge, kwa kutokubali kusikiliza hoja yake ya msingi kama sheria ya bunge inavyodai, na hilo lilithibitishwa na rais alipokubali kuunda tume ya madini baadaye ambayo ilikuwa ni hoja ya msingi ya Zitto, Warioba na Butiku kwenye hilo la Zitto kusimamishwa mbona hawakusema haya ya Due Process?

Lowassa, amekimbia kivuli chake mwenyewe na rais ameridhika na kukimbia kwake, sasa Due Process has nothing to do na hizi ishus za kisiasa mkuu Pundit!

Kama nilivyosema mwanzo, ni vizuri Lowassa kaondoka.Ingekuwa vizuri zaidi kama Lowassa angenyimwa hata huo msemo wa "nimeonewa kwa sababu sikupewa nafasi ya kujitetea"

Hizo argument za kamati ni weak indeed, yaaani watu wazima wanasema wameogopa kumuhoji Lowassa kwa sababu Waziri Mkuu? Sasa kama issue ingekuwa inamgusa Kikwete je, wangeweza kumuhoji na kutupa ukweli?

Mwakyembe na tume yake wamefanya kazi kubwa sana, kazi nzuri.Lakini kama mimi ni mwalimu nawapa marks ningewaambia mmekosea kutoa ripoti ambayo haina majibu kutoka kwa mtu muhimu kama Lowassa.

As far as the report is concerned there is no input from Lowassa.If a Martian is handed the report and asked to give a ruling, he will ask, hoiw come this Lowassa fellow is not questioned?

 

[William J. Malecela]

tatizo langu ni kuwa rule of law haikufuatwa.

Mkuu Pundit,

No question kwamba you are an-intelligent man, lakini hapa kwenye hii topic unachanganya ishus mkuu, iliyomkuta Lowassa ni the rule of politics sio the rule of law,

Warioba na Butiku, kama kweli wako concerned na the rule of law wangesikitika kwamba Daniel Yona na Rostam Aziz, wameitwa kisheria na kamati teule ya bunge na wamekataa kwenda, na nothing happened to them, nilifikiri wewe Pundit na Warioba na Butiku, mngekuwa concerned zaidi na hilo badala ya noneishu ya sheria ambayo haikumhukumu Lowassa, ila Lowassa kukimbia kivulichake mwenyewe, kutokana na the rule of politics!

 

[SYLLOGIST!]

Bunge limeridhishwa na maelezo ya kamati yake, kuhusiana na sababu ilizozitoa kamati teule za kwa nini haikumuita Waziri mkuu kujieleza, ambazo zinatokana na mazingara magumu ya madaraka mazito aliyokuwa nayo Waziri Mkuu wa zamani wakati wa uchunguzi huo, Bunge letu halihitaji kujieleza kwa chombo chochote kuhusiana na uamuzi wake kwa sababu haikumhukumu Lowassa kwenye sheria kutokana na ripoti hiyo, isipokuwa Lowassa mwenyewe aliamua kuikimbia ripoti hiyo bila ya ku-raise legal ishus ambazo anajaribu kuwatumia kina Warioba na Butiku sasa kuzi-raise,
Bunge lilipomsimamisha Zitto, halikuwa responsible for anybody ingawa lilikiuka haki ya Zitto kama mbunge, kwa kutokubali kusikiliza hoja yake ya msingi kama sheria ya bunge inavyodai, na hilo lilithibitishwa na rais alipokubali kuunda tume ya madini baadaye ambayo ilikuwa ni hoja ya msingi ya Zitto, Warioba na Butiku kwenye hilo la Zitto kusimamishwa mbona hawakusema haya ya Due Process?

Lowassa, amekimbia kivuli chake mwenyewe na rais ameridhika na kukimbia kwake, sasa Due Process has nothing to do na hizi ishus za kisiasa mkuu Pundit!

FMES,
Hiyo mku ndio theory yenyewe, just-a-jest LOL

 

[Pundit]

Mkuu Pundit,

No question kwamba you are an-intelligent man, lakini hapa kwenye hii topic unachanganya ishus mkuu, iliyomkuta Lowassa ni the rule of politics sio the rule of law,

Warioba na Butiku, kama kweli wako concerned na the rule of law wangesikitika kwamba Daniel Yona na Rostam Aziz, wameitwa kisheria na kamati teule ya bunge na wamekataa kwenda, na nothing happened to them, nilifikiri wewe Pundit na Warioba na Butiku, mngekuwa concerned zaidi na hilo badala ya noneishu ya sheria ambayo haikumhukumu Lowassa, ila Lowassa kukimbia kivulichake mwenyewe, kutokana na the rule of politics!

ES,

Sioni unaonaje ninavyochanganya issues wakati wewe mwenyewe unakubali kuwa kilichotokea ni rule of politics as you put it and not rule of law.

Nashukuru umekubali kwamba rule of law haikufuatwa bali rule of politics,this has been my core argument all along and if you agree on that I do not see much more to discuss.Kwa watu wanaojali rule of law hii ni precedent mbaya kwa sababu rule of politics ni mambo ya Sun-Tzu na Machiavelli hayo, complete with Maradona moves za Kikwete.

Mimi nilishasema kuwa ningependa kuona yeyote aliyekuwa implicated, hata kama Kikwete, anahojiwa sasa sioni kwa nini ufikiri siko concerned na Rostam Aziz na Daniel Yona kukataa kuhojiwa

 

[William J. Malecela]

Mzee ES,

With that statement kuwa Raisi alikubali kujiuzulu kwake, ina maana kuwa Raisi ni mshiriki katika mtafuruku huu! Ina maana raisi kampa ruksa kuondoka madarakani bila kujibu tuhuma kama Waziri Mkuu na kiongozi wa Serikali.

Mkuu wangu Kishoka,

Hatujui yaliyojiri kati ya rais na Waziri mkuu wa zamani Lowassa, kwa hiyo hatuwezi ku-speculate, lakini legally tunajua one thing kuwa rais alikubali resignation ya Loawassa, bila kipingamizi cha sheria wala siasa, na kwa sababu ndiye aliyemchagua in the first place, katiba yetu imekuwa full filled 100%, kwa Waziri Mkuu kuomba kujiuzulu na rais wa Jamhuri kukubali atoke, kwenye hili la Lowassa kutoka hakuna maswali ya kisheria wala kisiasa,

Lowassa kujaribu kuwalaumu Mwakyembe, na Bunge, na kina Warioba na Butiku, kumuuunga mkono ni absolutely pathetic thinking, kwa sababu Lowassa ameondolewa na the rule of politics na sio rule of law, Lowassa had alll the rights and time kuliomba bunge atoe rebuttal, he did not na bunge halikumfukuza kazi, Bunge lilikuwa liko kwenye process zake za kawaida za kupokea ripoti ya kamati yake, kabla ya kuanza kuijadili Lowassa akaomba kujiuzulu sasa mlitaka bunge lifanye nini?

 

[Rev.Kishoka]

Jamani,

Point za Warioba na Butiku wawe ni ethical or not zimetupa mwanga mmoja ambao tusipumbae kwa kushangilia Lowassa kujiuzulu.

Tujiulize kama wananchi, lengo letu lilikuwa ni kuona Lowassa akijiuzulu na kufukuzwa kazi kwa uzembe au Lowassa kupatikana hatia ya kuhujumu uchumi wa nchi na kushindwa kulinda maslahi ya taifa kwa mujibu wa Katiba?

We a beating around the bush and no one is ready to call Zitto, Kilango, Seleli and demand what next now Lowassa is out of job.

Will the Bunge demand an explanation kutoka kwake on the whole issue au ndio political conclusion kuwa kaachia madaraka, jalada lifungwe na kesi imekwisha?

What will happen when Bunge reconvenes on Thursday? will all those listed be called to answer the allegations in Bunge? will there be a criminal prosecution?

Mnaachia watu wanapeta kwa kuwa tulikuwa tunamchukia Lowassa na kina Gire wanatanua. Lowassa, Msabaha, Karamagi na wote waliotajwa kuhusika inabidi wajibu tuhuma zilizotokana na uchunguzi. Do not give them a free pass!

On the other hand, if Lowassa was summoned to Mwakyembe probe committe, he would have had to take an oath and that could have been more incriminating for him, if he would have given false testimonial!

 

[Pundit]

On the other hand, if Lowassa was summoned to Mwakyembe probe committe, he would have had to take an oath and that could have been more incriminating for him, if he would have given false testimonial!

Rev,

They let him walk Scot free.

Inawezekana kabisa Kikwete aliwaambia msimhoji as a result of "the rule of politics" anayoiongelea ES instead of "the rule of law".

 

[Rev.Kishoka]

Lowassa kujaribu kuwalaumu Mwakyembe, na Bunge, na kina Warioba na Butiku, kumuuunga mkono ni absolutely pathetic thinking, kwa sababu Lowassa ameondolewa na the rule of politics na sio rule of law, Lowassa had alll the rights and time kuliomba bunge atoe rebuttal, he did not na bunge halikumfukuza kazi, Bunge lilikuwa liko kwenye process zake za kawaida za kupokea ripoti ya kamati yake, kabla ya kuanza kuijadili Lowassa akaomba kujiuzulu sasa mlitaka bunge lifanye nini?

Mzee ES,

Respect Mkuu. Hivi unataka kuniambia kuwa kwa kujiuzulu kwake basi asihojiwe tena na Bunge? Tunataka wakirudi, akalishwe kikao na ajieleze. Kama tutasema hamna sababu ya yeye kujieleza tena maana si Waziri Mkuu, basi ina maana Rais kakubali kuzimika kwa hoja na uchunguzi mzima ikiwa mtuhumiwa mkuu atapewa kinga ya kutotoa au kujibu tuhuma kwa kuwa kajiuzulu!

Hivyo basi, narudia kuwa Kikwete kwa kukubali kwa Lowassa kujiuzulu bila kujibu hoja au kumrudisha kujibu tuhuma kuna maanisha kazi ya Mwakyembe ilikuwa ina walakini tangu mwanzo na dhumuni halikuwa kuchunguza Uhujumu bali ni kuleta hoja za kumsakama Lowassa aishie kujiuzulu na kuachia ngazi.

No wonder alisema it is about Uwaziri Mkuu! He walks a free man, despite being disgraced politically!

 

[William J. Malecela]

Nashukuru umekubali kwamba rule of law haikufuatwa bali rule of politics,

Mkuu ninaikubali bila ya tatizo hii kwa sababu, kwa sababu pale bungeni hapakuwa mahali pa the rule of law, katika kuijadili hii ishu, ingekuwa basi Yona na Aziz, wangekuwa jela tayari kwa kukataa kwenda mbele ya kamati, pale palikuwa ni kwenye the rule of politics,

Kama ni the rule of law, Lowassa anazo hakli zote now yaani sasa kwenda kwenye the rule of law, lakini kujaribu kuichanganya hii ishu yake ya kujiuzulu kwa kukimbia kivuli chake mwenyewe cha kisasa, kwa kusingizia wengine ni a shame on his part na wale wote wanao muunga mkono, na pia sisi hatushangai maana tulisema kuwa hatakubali kuondoka kwa amani, na hawa kina Warioba na Butiku, ni part tu ya political strategy zake Lowassa, kuweka milango wazi ya yeye one day kurudi tena kwenye siasa, au kujijengea political base ili aingie upinzani akiwa na some credibility kwamba ona hata Warioba na Butiku, waliona nimeonewa kwa hiyo ndio maana nimeamua kujiunga na upinzani ili niendeleze mapambano ya kuisafisha serikali yetu maana imezidi maonevu,

Na ninaona tayari imeshaanza ku-work out, maana sasa hata Philemon Mikael, sasa amekuwa sympathetic na Lowassa, kwa mara ya kwanza, I am shocked kuona alivyoandika kwa ukondooo kwenye hii topic, tulijua kuwa Lowassa ahataondoka hivi hivi, aende salama lakini asingizie watu kwa maovu yake mwenyewe yaliyomsababisha akimbie the rule of politics!

 

[William J. Malecela]

Mnaachia watu wanapeta kwa kuwa tulikuwa tunamchukia Lowassa na kina Gire wanatanua. Lowassa, Msabaha, Karamagi na wote waliotajwa kuhusika inabidi wajibu tuhuma zilizotokana na uchunguzi. Do not give them a free pass!

Mkuu Kishoka,

Now you are talking mkuu, salute!

 

[Rev.Kishoka]

Rev,

They let him walk Scot free.

Inawezekana kabisa Kikwete aliwaambia msimhoji as a result of "the rule of politics" anayoiongelea ES instead of "the rule of law".

Then where is justice and accountability? are we mocking the Tanzanians? Was the whole thing waste of time and money just to get political results/gain and not accountability, prosecution or proper justice?

Will the Government lower the electrical tarrifs and stop penalizing Wananchi?

Ama kweli Tanzania kichwa cha mwendawazimu!