If Chadema change position it mustt apologize, unconditionally!

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

I'm going to say this in very categorical terms. And I mean every single word here in: CHADEMA must apologize to President Kikwete, its members, supporters and all Tanzanians in general. Why you may ask:

a. For leading people to believe that the elections were somehow not as free or fair as expected.

b. By leading people to believe that the presidential election results were somewhat tampered with, sabotaged or somewhat were fraudulent.

c. By suggesting that the National Electoral Commission colluded with CCM to ensure that president Kikwete remain in power.

d. By making people believe that they were the victims of a corrupt political system.

e. For walking out of the parliament when President Kikwete was about to address the nation protesting the legitimacy of the electoral results that put Kikwete in power. We now know that this was a wrong decision bases on what the CC of Chadema has decided.

What does all this mean? It simply means that Chadema has lost the argument on the fairness of the elections. It has lost the argument that NEC somewhat conducted one of the worst elections ever in the United Tanzania. In a long run this is what is going to happen.:

a. CCM will NOT and I'm stating with sense of absolute certainty - WILL NOT initiate or even allow the process to write a new constitution. The best they are going to is a cosmetic amendments to the constitution. Specifically, just those areas that cover NEC.

b. Chadema will go to the next elections from a position of weakness compared to the position it founds itself in during the 2010 elections.

c. Chadema has taken a position of strategic postponement of its internal problems. Once again it seems there is a lack of leadership; while others see the recent moves within Chadema as the most "intelligent" or "strategic" I see them as decisions of political expediency. One, Chadema is not United not in leadership but in vision, decisions and political positions and secondly, they are still thinking in terms of being an opposition party. CCM will definitely will like to maintain that status quo.

In short, Chadema SHOULD apologize, initiate a process of self assessment, correction and rebuilding. Otherwise, LET IT continue to dig its its own grave of political oblivion. They asked the people to support them, they argued for change in their manifesto, but when push came to shovel, Chadema flinched and flinching they continue.

I'm done with one too. Sigusi tena and those are my points and I'm sticking to each one of them.

Either Freedom or Death,

MMM

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Mwanakijiji are you out of your senses? It is not Chadema which is saying the vote was rigged,it is we the citizens of Tanzania who are saying the vote was rigged.Let me seriously advice you not mess up yourself in this very sestive issue if you do not have a vested interest in it.If the tide changes,utakuwa mgeni wa nani?

Ninadhani ninaelewa vizuri kwa nini CHADEMA wameamua hivyo, lakini bado sipendi lugha inayotumika. Kumtambua Kikwete kama Rais halali wa Tanzania ni lugha inayompa nguvu sana Kikwete. Naomba sana viongozi wa chadema warekebishe lugha hiyo ileleweke kwa wanachi wote kuwa Chadema imekubali kufanya kazi na serikali ya Kikwete ingawa bado wachadema wana imani kuwa Kikwete hakuchaguliwa kihalali kama rais wa Tanzania.

Fareed said:

I do not see any reason whatsoever for CHADEMA to apologise to anybody.

The party made the right move and put national interests ahead of political egos and personal grudges. Here's why:

The whole world knows Jakaya Kikwete of CCM stole the election. The walkout staged by CHADEMA MPs when Kikwete was addressing Bunge helped to highlight the fact that the election was rigged and Kikwete was an illegitimate president, morally speaking.

The way forward: The law of the land states explicitly that once the National Electoral Commission (NEC) announces the presidential results, its final (One of the reasons why we need a new constitution). No one can challenge the results in the courts nor sue NEC for fraud, etc. In this situation, while there is clear evidence of vote rigging and grand fraud in the presidential election, Kikwete is the legally declared winner of the presidential election.

CHADEMA has to look at its broader agenda post election, which includes electoral reform and a new constitution. The party needs to sit down with the government and spell out its demands. If the government doesn't listen, then we the people, will support street protests, demonstrations, etc.

In order for CHADEMA to pave way for negotiations with the government, the party had to make the difficult decision of recognising Kikwete as president even though they have evidence to prove he stole the vote. CHADEMA did the right thing by giving dialogue a chance.

The walkout was important to highlight the fact that the presidential election was rigged. Now is the time to sit down at the negotiating table with Kikwete and discuss electoral reforms and a new constitution before 2015.

It was a very difficult decision to make, but it was the right move for CHADEMA to make.

SASA, Kikwete na CCM yake wakileta ubishi, CHADEMA itakuwa na kila haki ya kwenda mtaaani. Wananchi tuko tayari kwa mapambano tunasubiri viongozi wetu watoe tamko.

MUNGU IBARIKI CHADEMA, MUNGU IBARIKI TANZANIA!

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Mhe. Fareed,

Thank you for recognizing the dilemma in which Chadema found itself. After raising the alarm that the elections were flagrantly rigged and that Kikwete is President, in spite of all the abuse, our Party must work within the confines of law and order to achieve its mission.

Since walking out and boycotting sessions of Parliament are legitimate ways of demonstrating opposition to what authorities may have done or are planning to do, CHADEMA MPs did exactly that, and their walk out properly signalled to all and sundry that there was something wrong. The message was properly delivered.

It is not correct to imply that the Chadema leadership, after that demonstration went for a holiday. Freeman Mbowe our Chairman and Willibrod Slaa, the S.G., have since been in the news, explaining that there is an urgent need to set up a Commission to probe what transpired in the counting of the votes to deny us victory. They have also stressed that, between now and 2015, there must be a write-up of the Constitution of Tanzania and a new law regarding the National Electoral Commission. Many Chadema stalwarts have been stressing that the momentum generated by Slaa's campaign must not flop and we are gearing for that.

Diversionary activities, especially those surrounding Zitto Kabwe, the M.P. for Kigoma North, have also been apparent. These are normal parleys in multi-party politics.

In order to prepare for the future, the leadership of Chadema must at the earliest opportunity, engage in serious discussions with the Government. This means that in spite of the illegimate means of arriving at how Kikwete came to be declared President, it is his chosen assistants with whom we as Chadema shall dialogue.

In conclusion, although I have much respect for Mzee Mwanakijiji, I must say I do not agree with him that Chadema has anything to apologize about.

Wakati wengine wanaingia hapa JF kama jukwaa la kukutanam, kubadilishana mawazo na au kutoa mawazo yao juu ya mambo kadha wa kadha, wengine wako hapa kama sehemu ya kazi yao, yaani wako kazini hapa.

Ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

Feb 8, Bunge jipya litakapoanza wabunge wa CCM wakiwa wameunganishwa kwa lengo la kudhoofisha Chadema watatoa hoja rasmi ya kutaka wabunge wa Chadema kuomba radhi Bunge kwa kitendo chao cha kutoka Bungeni ambacho kilionekana kumdharirisha Rais, na kujenga picha mbaya kwa taifa. Watatakiwa waombe msamaha au watapigiwa kura ya kufungiwa watoke hadi watakapokuwa tayari kufanya hivyo. Hoja zitakazotolewa kwa kiasi kikubwa ni hizi hizi nilizozianisha.

a. Je, Wabunge hao wawe tayari kuomba msamaha ili waendelee kushiriki vikao vya Bunge
b. Je, Wakiambiwa watamke wazi kuwa JK ni Rais kwa sababu ni mshindi si kwa sababu ametangazwa na Tume watakuwa tayari?
c. Je, wakiambiwa watambue hayo yote unconditionally (yaani wasilalamikie kabisa uchaguzi)

Je wafanye hivyo? Je, mnafikiri watakuwa wamoja kukubali kuchukua msimamo wa pamoja?

Itakuwaje kama kundi moja ndani ya Chadema litakuja na kusema "tuombe tu msamaha ili tuyamalize" na kundi jingine likasema "hatuombi msamaha" halafu wabunge wa CCM wakasema wako tayari kutambua msamaha hata wa mbunge mmoja mmoja itakuwaje?

Kweli kabisa kuna watu wanafikiria kuwa CCM watawaacha wabunge wa Chadema warudi Bungeni na kuendelea na vikao bila kuwalipisha gharama?

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Hivi ni wapi ambapo wabunge wanalazimika kuwepo wakati Rais anahutubia? Ni haki ya kila mbunge kufanya kile ambacho anaamini ni haki ili mradi havunji sheria. Mpaka sasa sijaona mahali ambapo panasema kitendo walichofanya ni uvunjaji wa kanuni yeyote ya bunge au sheria ya nchi. Hisia ya kuwa kwa kufanya hivyo wamemdhalilisha Rais inategemewa kutoka kwenye chama ambacho mgombea wake amepewa ushindi lakini si lazima iwe hivyo mbele ya sheria.

Tofauti na mnavyodhani kuwa kitendo cha hao jamaa kimetoa picha mbaya, ukweli ni kuwa kumetujengea sifa ya kuonyesha kuwa demokrasi yetu imekomaa. Kutakako jenga picha mbaya ni vitendo vindictive kama hivyo vya kudai apology kutoka kwa mwakalishi wa raia aliyetumia haki yake ya ku-dissent. Na hivi kweli wabunge wa chama kimoja wanaweza kweli kupiga kura kuwanyima haki wabunge wenzao haki ya kuwawakilisha waliowachagua kwa kitendo ambacho hata wenyewe wanakiri hakikuvunja kanuni. Hawa waliamka, kimya kimya bila kumtusi mtu sasa leo kweli mnataka kuendelea kuweka miguu yao kwenye moto. Kuendeleza hii kitu ndiko kutaonyesha kuwa kweli hatujaelewa wala hatujakubali maana ya demokrasia. Kama kweli CCM watakazania kuwaadabisha CDM basi watakuwa kama school yard bully ambae hamna mtu mwenye kufikiri atakuwa na sympathy nae. The mature thing ni wao kusimama na kulaani kitendo cha CDM na ku-move on.

Hayo ya kikundi kimoja ndani ya CDM kuomba msamaha ni hadithi ya Ali Nacha. Wasemaji wa chama hicho wanajulikana. Msimamo wa chama chao utabaki pale pale hata kama wabunge binafsi watatofautiana na uongozi. Ndiyo demokrasia.

Amandla.......

Uamzi wa CHADEMA kumtambua Kikwete ulikuwa uamzi muafaka kwa sasa hivi. Duru za kisiasa zinaonesha kuwa watanzania wengi hawapendi siasa hardline (ngangari). Hata wale waliokuwa ngangari kwenye uchaguzi wengi ilikuwa kwa ajili ya wabunge wao. Kwenye matokeo ya urais hata walioipigia CHADEMA hawakuwa na matumaini kuwa Slaa angeshinda. Watu wengi wako realistic na hawakutarajia mafanikio ya haraka hivyo! Baada ya matokeo ilitakiwa CHADEMA kifanye tathmini makini na kingegundua kuwa hata kama uchaguzi ungeendeshwa na malaika majimbo ambayo Chadema wangeshinda ubunge si zaidi ya mara mbili ya yale waliyoshinda. Kwa hali kama hiyo ukweli ulikuwa kwamba hata kama kwenye urais uchakachuaji ulifanyika, uchakachuaji huo haukubadili matokeo kwa kiwango kikubwa mno!

Hilo likishakuwa wazi sasa ilitakiwa CHADEMA ijipange kutoa statement ya uchaguzi, statement itakayoakisi umakini wao. Minyukano inayoendelea ndani ya chama imehakikisha kuwa chama hakitulii na kutoa statement makini na iliyotulia. Hiki tunachokiona sasa ni failure ya PR machinery ndani ya CDM (kama hiyo machinery ipo). Watanzania wangewaelewa CDM kama wangetoka wazi na kusema kwa ajili ya maslahi ya taifa wameamua kumtambua Kikwete hata kama wanajua uchaguzi ulichakachuliwa. Chadema ingesema wazi kuwa imepata ushahidi unaothibisha kuwa uchakachuaji ulifanyika na ingetoa mifano michache ya majimbo ambapo matokeo yaliyosomwa yalikuwa tofauti na yale ya vituoni. Wangetangaza kuwa wanatambua kuwa kuendelea kutomtambua rais kunaliingiza taifa katika mgogoro ambao hauwanufaishi watanzania. Wangesema wazi kuwa wanaamini watanzania wameonesha nia ya dhati ya kukiunga mkono chama hicho na kusema kinawahakikishia umakini mkubwa huko bungeni ili hatimaye watanzania wakipe uongozi 2015.

Kusema kweli kauli zilizotolewa hazikuwa makini lakini mimi nawapa Chadema a second chance. Tunahitaji upinzani ulioungana bungeni. Hatuhitaji wabunge wa upinzani wanaoiunga mkono CCM kama ambavyo baadhi wameshaonesha. Hawa wanaoelewa kuwa maana ya "food poisoning" ni kuwekewa sumu kwenye chakula, tena wanaotaka kuonekana ni watu wasioeleweka ili wawe viongozi bora ndo watu ambao Chadema ilitakiwa iwe na mkakati wa kuwa-manage.

Nasema tena uamzi wa Chadema kumtambua Kikwete kwa mazingira ya siasa za kistaarabu ni uamzi wa busara kabisa. Chadema ilitakiwa tu waseme wamefanya hivyo kwa ajili ya kulinda umoja na mshikamano wa Tanzania kama taifa, na wataendeleza upinzani bungeni. Hicho ndicho watanzania walichotarajia.

Kauli mbofu mbofu zilizotolewa inatakiwa zisahihiswe na niwaombe hao viongozi wanaosoma humu wafanye hivyo haraka. Hawa wanaowang'ang'aniza CHADEMA kuendeleza hardline hawaikitakii mema, wanataka kichukiwe na watanzania. Kukubali yaishe hata kama unajua uchaguzi ulitawaliwa na matatizo lukuki, ni sehemu ya ukomavu wa kisiasa. Al Gore wa marekani alifikia mahali akasema basi. Mazingira ya sasa yanaonesha kuwa watanzania wengi hawako tayari kwa ngangari, ingawa wengi wanajua kuwa mchezo mchafu ulichezwa. Huo ungekkuwa mtaji mzuri sana wa kubeba kwenye uchaguzi ujao.

Kauli zilivyotolewa hazijanifurahisha na hazioneshi umakini tuliotarajia wengi. Chadema work on this.

Hilo la yaliyopita baada ya uchaguzi; yaani kugomea siku ya kutangazwa matokeo, siku ya kuapishwa na siku ya hotuba ya rais, ilikuwa kauli tosha ya kuonesha jinsi CHADEMA ilivyokuwa haikubaliani na jinsi tume ilivyoendesha uchaguzi. Haitakiwi tena Chadema iyazungumzie hayo. Yameshapita. CHADEMA ijikite kwenye kudumisha umoja na mshikamano wa watanzania na kuuonesha ulimwengu kuwa watanzania wanaweza kuendesha siasa za kistaarabu. Si lazima wafanye kama walivyofanya kina Raila huko Kenya ndo waheshimike.

Chadema rekebisheni kauli yenu ya kumtambua Kikwete, mtoe kauli makini, watanzania wako nyuma yenu!!

Tatizo la msingi hapa ni hilo la CDM kutojipanga mapema. Kususia hotuba ya JK pale bungeni ni dhambi itakayowasumbua sana huko mbeleni
kama tatizo ni tume (NEC) CDM walilijua hilo tangia wanaanzisha chama 1992 hivyo si geni. walipaswa wajipange mapema kupambana na lolote kuhusiana na TUME
lakini sasa CDM inataka kujadiliana na JK kuhusu katiba nk, ndiyo maana wanalegeza msimamo na baadaye kidogo CCM watawawekea masharti magumu zaidi ili waweze kuendelea na mazungumzo, tutegemee vioja zaidi. na kama alivyogusia MMM hapo juu wabunge wa CCM wanaweza kuwakalia kooni na kuwasambaratisha CDM katika malengo yao.

naunga mkono hoja ya kutoa maelezo ya ziada kwa wananchi (kuwaomba msamaha kwa kuwachanganya). wengi hatuelewi tofauti ya kutomtambua Rais VS kutotambua kura au utaratiibu uliomweka madarakani.
nanukuu maelezo ya Mh Mnyika

Hatujasema tunamtambua, tumesema kwamba ametambuliwa na Tume na Katiba ambayo inakataza matokeo yake yasipingwe mahakamani; akitangazwa ametangazwa. For us Kikwete is legal but illegitimate president!

Suala la kutambua ama kutomtambua sio letu, kwa kuwa limeshapatiwa majibu na mfumo uliopo; logically, ukiyakataa matokeo umemkataa na aliyetokana na matokeo hayo! Tulimsusia kwenye hotuba ya kuzindua bunge ili kufikisha ujumbe kuwa tunataka tume ya uchunguzi na kuanza kwa mchakato wa katiba mpya ambayo pamoja na mambo mengine italeta tume huru ya uchaguzi. Msimamo huu uko pale pale na tunapaswa kuunganisha nguvu ya umma kuudai!

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hapa tunachanganya tu maneno lakini tunaongelea kitu kilekile hatumtambui Raisi na kama msimamo umebadilika tuseme hivyo tusitafune maneno.

Ng'azagala said:

Tatizo la msingi hapa ni hilo la CDM kutojipanga mapema. Kususia hotuba ya JK pale bungeni ni dhambi itakayowasumbua sana huko mbeleni
kama tatizo ni tume (NEC) CDM walilijua hilo tangia wanaanzisha chama 1992 hivyo si geni. walipaswa wajipange mapema kupambana na lolote kuhusiana na TUME
lakini sasa CDM inataka kujadiliana na JK kuhusu katiba nk, ndiyo maana wanalegeza msimamo na baadaye kidogo CCM watawawekea masharti magumu zaidi ili waweze kuendelea na mazungumzo, tutegemee vioja zaidi. na kama alivyogusia MMM hapo juu wabunge wa CCM wanaweza kuwakalia kooni na kuwasambaratisha CDM katika malengo yao.

naunga mkono hoja ya kutoa maelezo ya ziada kwa wananchi (kuwaomba msamaha kwa kuwachanganya). wengi hatuelewi tofauti ya kutomtambua Rais VS kutotambua kura au utaratiibu uliomweka madarakani.
nanukuu maelezo ya Mh Mnyika

hapa tunachanganya tu maneno lakini tunaongelea kitu kilekile hatumtambui Raisi na kama msimamo umebadilika tuseme hivyo tusitafune maneno.

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Watu walimsusia Muamar Gadafi.

Watu Walimsusia Ahmednajad.

Kwenye mikutano ya UN. New York

Itakuwa kususiwa Kukwete kwenye mji wa Wagogo? Sembuse.

Leteni hoja za maana hata tuone kuwa Chadema haifai.

Hayo ma-upupu yenu tulishayazoea. Hayabadili msimamo wetu wa kukiunga mkono Chadema.

Ng'wanangwa said:

Watu walimsusia Muamar Gadafi.

Watu Walimsusia Ahmednajad.

Kwenye mikutano ya UN. New York

Itakuwa kususiwa Kukwete kwenye mji wa Wagogo? Sembuse.

Leteni hoja za maana hata tuone kuwa Chadema haifai.

Hayo ma-upupu yenu tulishayazoea. Hayabadili msimamo wetu wa kukiunga mkono Chadema.

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CHADEMA haina strategy, hatutaki shows tu za kumsusia rais bungeni, tunataka either wakisusia kitu wafanye mgomo substantive wenye a clear strategy for institutional changes, au wakimkubali rais wafanye kazi kutoka ndani ya system kuleta mabadiliko.

Leo wananchi tunapata mixed signal, mara hawamtambui rais, mara wanamtambua, mara wanamtambua lakini hawatambui matokeo ya uchaguzi. Utamtambuaje rais ambaye matokeo ya uchaguzi yaliyompa urais huyatambui ?

Kila kukicha migogoro chamani, leo Shibuda, ambaye niliwaonya CHADEMA juu yake mapema kabisa, anaanza kuonyesha a clearly unnecessary dissent within the party, one that even to those of us who do not embrace a wooden consesus finds to be rather loud and self promoting, especially coming from someone so new in the party.

I hate to say this, but I predicted this shyt, like 2Pacalypse !

Ng'wanangwa said:

Watu walimsusia Muamar Gadafi.

Watu Walimsusia Ahmednajad.

Kwenye mikutano ya UN. New York

Itakuwa kususiwa Kukwete kwenye mji wa Wagogo? Sembuse.

Leteni hoja za maana hata tuone kuwa Chadema haifai.

Hayo ma-upupu yenu tulishayazoea. Hayabadili msimamo wetu wa kukiunga mkono Chadema.

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Tatizo si kususia viongozi waliopo madarakani bali ni kumsusia mtu utakaye muhitaji baadaye - sasa hayo mazungumzo yatafanyika vipi?
fikiri kidogo kwanza kabla ya kujibu

Kiranga said:

CHADEMA haina strategy, hatutaki shows tu za kumsusia rais bungeni, tunataka either wakisusia kitu wafanye mgomo substantive wenye a clear strategy for institutional changes, au wakimkubali rais wafanye kazi kutoka ndani ya system kuleta mabadiliko.

Leo wananchi tunapata mixed signal, mara hawamtambui rais, mara wanamtambua, mara wanamtambua lakini hawatambui matokeo ya uchaguzi. Utamtambuaje rais ambaye matokeo ya uchaguzi yaliyompa urais huyatambui ?

Kila kukicha migogoro chamani, leo Shibuda, ambaye niliwaonya CHADEMA juu yake mapema kabisa, anaanza kuonyesha a clearly unnecessary dissent within the party, one that even to those of us who do not embrace a wooden consesus finds to be rather loud and self promoting, especially coming from someone so new in the party.

I hate to say this, but I predicted this shyt, like 2Pacalypse !

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Chadema haina strategy.

Chama gani chenye strategy?

Kama huwezi kujibu hilo swali langu, basi mawazo yako ni unafiki na uchokonozi. uwoga.

Kiranga said:

CHADEMA haina strategy, hatutaki shows tu za kumsusia rais bungeni, tunataka either wakisusia kitu wafanye mgomo substantive wenye a clear strategy for institutional changes, au wakimkubali rais wafanye kazi kutoka ndani ya system kuleta mabadiliko.

Leo wananchi tunapata mixed signal, mara hawamtambui rais, mara wanamtambua, mara wanamtambua lakini hawatambui matokeo ya uchaguzi. Utamtambuaje rais ambaye matokeo ya uchaguzi yaliyompa urais huyatambui ?

Kila kukicha migogoro chamani, leo Shibuda, ambaye niliwaonya CHADEMA juu yake mapema kabisa, anaanza kuonyesha a clearly unnecessary dissent within the party, one that even to those of us who do not embrace a wooden consesus finds to be rather loud and self promoting, especially coming from someone so new in the party.

I hate to say this, but I predicted this shyt, like 2Pacalypse !

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hapa ndiyo penye tatizo - full kuchanganyana

Ng'azagala said:

Tatizo si kususia viongozi waliopo madarakani bali ni kumsusia mtu utakaye muhitaji baadaye - sasa hayo mazungumzo yatafanyika vipi?
fikiri kidogo kwanza kabla ya kujibu

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hawakuvunja kanuni yoyote ya Bunge.

kanuni za bunge hazizuii mtu kutoka nje.

unataka tudharau kanuni za bunge?

kama JK atakataa kuzungumza na Chadema, they will come straight to wananchi.

usiwe na hofu na hilo maana CCM si wasafi kiasi cha kupata ujasiri wa kusimama majukwaani kukandia misimamo ya Chadema.

Kwani upi msimamo sahihi: Wabunge wa Chadema kususia hotuba ya JK au CCM kususia kuwawajibisha kina Lowasa, Chenge, Rostam, Mramba na mafisadi wengine?

Unajua ningejua Mzee mwanakijiji yuko wapi ningemchapa makonde sio yale ya kiregevu ni ya kikweli kweli. Sisi tukiongeaa kwenye forum tunamaanisha na sio tunaleta mchezo hapa tuna uchungu na nchi na sio tunacheza kiduku. Watu watakufanya kitoweo we lete mchezo tu

MwanaFalsafa1 said:

Mkuu Kiranga you are right. These people are contradicting themselves. Kuna kauli hapa JF Dr. Slaa mwenyewe kaitoa na kudai walimaanisha uraisi wa JK "Lawful but illegitimate". Sasa tokea lini kitu ambacho ni Lawful kikawa illegitimate? It does not make any sense.
Akaendelea kudai kwamba walitumia Kiingereza makusudi kuonyesha tofauti. Kwanza hajaonyesha tofauti bali katoa a contradicting statement na pili nimejiuliza iweje was tafute maneno ya Kiswahili wakati majority ya Watanzania hawaongei Kiingerza?

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Mfano rahisi kwa kukujibu. Mtoto anaweza akawa illegitimate lakini mbele ya sheria ni lawful. Hawa jamaa wanachotaka kusema kuwa ni kuwa ingawa Mheshimiwa Rais ni lawful ( kwa maana kuwa sheria na katiba inamtambua) lakini kwa maono yao morally (kwa values na sio law) wao wanaona hastahili.

Amandla......

Fundi Mchundo said:

Mfano rahisi kwa kukujibu. Mtoto anaweza akawa illegitimate lakini mbele ya sheria ni lawful. Hawa jamaa wanachotaka kusema kuwa ni kuwa ingawa Mheshimiwa Rais ni lawful ( kwa maana kuwa sheria na katiba inamtambua) lakini kwa maono yao morally (kwa values na sio law) wao wanaona hastahili.

Amandla......

Amandla......

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Mkuu sasa tukiingia kwenye "morals" that's a different issue. If something is morally wrong but not illegal then it is lawful. Moral laws does not automatically mean laws of the land. If they are going to insist of talking of moral laws then they won't have any argument. They argument was supposed to continue being that there were election irregularities. Hivi ni vitu ambavyo unaweza kwenda mahakamani. But you can't go to court arguing for moral law if that moral law is not also part of the law of the land. You know why? Because everyone has different morals but everybody is judged under the same exact laws under the Constitution. Morals are a matter of opinion but laws are a matter of fact.

MwanaFalsafa1 said:

Mkuu sasa tukiingia kwenye "morals" that's a different issue. If something is morally wrong but not illegal then it is lawful. Moral laws does not automatically mean laws of the land. If they are going to insist of talking of moral laws then they won't have any argument. They argument was supposed to continue being that there were election irregularities. Hivi ni vitu ambavyo unaweza kwenda mahakamani. But you can't go to court arguing for moral law if that moral law is not also part of the law of the land. You know why? Because everyone has different morals but everybody is judged under the same exact laws under the Constitution. Morals are a matter of opinion but laws are a matter of fact.

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Kumbe unajua kuwa kitu kinaweza kuwa illegitimate lakini lawful!

Na ni sabau hii ndiyo inayowafanya CDM wasiende mahakamani ku-challenge uhalali wa Rais. Wanajua hawatashinda ndio maana wanatofautisha kuhusu msimamo wao morally na ule unaoangalia sheria. Hizo irregularities hata kama wakionyesha kuwa zilikuwepo hazitabatilisha ukweli kuwa sheria bado inaonyesha kuwa mshindi ni yule aliyetangazwa na NEC hata kama basis ya kumtangaza ilikuwa na walakin. The only recourse waliokuwa nayo ni hicho walichofanya, kukubali sheria na katiba ilivyoongoza bila ku-give up moral grounds na kudai kuwa sheria na katiba zibadilishwe ili hali kama hii isijejirudia.

Wakifanya anavyoshauri Mzee Mwanakiji basi hata morally watakosa.

Amandla......

CDM should apologize for what? To whom? Mwanakijiji be careful in your provocation.