Hapo Mwanzo Palikuwa Na Nini?!...science Vs divinity

[Mbu]

it's getting interesting!

Hivi una define vipi 'uchungu', yaani 'grief' mfano unapofiwa na mtu wako wa karibu, ule uchungu wa ndani kabisaa yaani aaahh.. au wivu!!!...hivi bila roho/soul unaweza sikia uchungu, au wivu kweli?

sidhani hizo ni 'chemical' reactions katika mwili, au?

 

[Mama]

it's getting interesting!

Hivi una define vipi 'uchungu', yaani 'grief' mfano unapofiwa na mtu wako wa karibu, ule uchungu wa ndani kabisaa yaani aaahh.. au wivu!!!...hivi bila roho/soul unaweza sikia uchungu, au wivu kweli?

sidhani hizo ni 'chemical' reactions katika mwili, au?

ha ha haaaaa,kweli pamefikia patamu, hivi ni chemical reactions or hormonal reactions? Hivi inakuaje mtu anaogopa kufa?

 

[Steve Dii]

ha ha haaaaa,kweli pamefikia patamu, hivi ni chemical reactions or hormonal reactions? Hivi inakuaje mtu anaogopa kufa?

it's getting interesting!

Hivi una define vipi 'uchungu', yaani 'grief' mfano unapofiwa na mtu wako wa karibu, ule uchungu wa ndani kabisaa yaani aaahh.. au wivu!!!...hivi bila roho/soul unaweza sikia uchungu, au wivu kweli?

sidhani hizo ni 'chemical' reactions katika mwili, au?

Honestly, so far i have had no credible scientific explanation to these fundamental questions. But again, are all these conscious and subconscious phenomena attributes of Godly providence?.... What shall be the scientific answer in 87years from now?!

SteveD.

 

[Pundit]

ha ha haaaaa,kweli pamefikia patamu, hivi ni chemical reactions or hormonal reactions? Hivi inakuaje mtu anaogopa kufa?

Chemical reactions pamoja na elecrtical stimuli in the brain coupled with psychological effects.

 

[Pundit]

Honestly, so far i have had no credible scientific explanation to these fundamental questions. But again, are all these conscious and subconscious phenomena attributes of Godly providence?.... What shall be the answer in 87years from now?!

SteveD.

Certainly not god, at least not the personal god of Judeo-Christian doctrine.

 

[Mama]

Honestly, so far i have had no credible scientific explanation to these fundamental questions. But again, are all these conscious and subconscious phenomena attributes of Godly providence?.... What shall be the answer in 87years from now?!

SteveD.

Mitume walikuwa na hizo attributes in a very strong manner, hata sasa wapo watu ambao subconciousness yao ni kubwa, hiyo ni dalili ya kuwepo Mungu na kwamba kuna uhai na kifo bila hata kwepo na maradhi na vitu kama hivyo. Hujawahi kusikia mtu mzima wa afya kalala na hakuamka tena yaani mauti yakamchukua akiwa usingizini? nini inatokea hapo, inakuwa amepungukiwa na RNA, DNA, Ubongo, oxygen, damu, moyo au nini kinatokea?

87 years from now I am not sure that we will still be alive to see what will be happening, and if we happen to be alive, matatizo ya uzee yatakuwa yanatukabili kiasi huwezi kukumbuka kufikiria na kulinganisha tofauti ya hali zaidi ya kuchanganya mambo kama mtoto mdogo.

 

[Mama]

Certainly not god, at least not the personal god of Judeo-Christian doctrine.

i dont know about the Judeo-Christian doctrine so no comment, but i stand to be corrected that they also dont have clear explanations. May be you can give a clue about that doctrine

 

[Mbu]

...Hivi inakuaje mtu anaogopa kufa?

...mnh, ukienda 'huko' haurudi mama! acha tu niogope!

 

[Mama]

...mnh, ukienda 'huko' haurudi mama! acha tu niogope!

kwi kwi kwi, kwa nini unaogopa, unaogopa kukutana na Mungu? nini hasa kinakufanya uogope?

 

[Steve Dii]

Mitume walikuwa na hizo attributes in a very strong manner, hata sasa wapo watu ambao subconciousness yao ni kubwa, hiyo ni dalili ya kuwepo Mungu na kwamba kuna uhai na kifo bila hata kwepo na maradhi na vitu kama hivyo. Hujawahi kusikia mtu mzima wa afya kalala na hakuamka tena yaani mauti yakamchukua akiwa usingizini? nini inatokea hapo, inakuwa amepungukiwa na RNA, DNA, Ubongo, oxygen, damu, moyo au nini kinatokea?

87 years from now I am not sure that we will still be alive to see what will be happening, and if we happen to be alive, matatizo ya uzee yatakuwa yanatukabili kiasi huwezi kukumbuka kufikiria na kulinganisha tofauti ya hali zaidi ya kuchanganya mambo kama mtoto mdogo.

Mama, jibu langu hapo juu nikuwa 'roho inakuwa imenyakuliwa'. RNA, DNA, Oxygen n.k. zinabakia humohumo... yaani mambo kama yale ya 'cot death' !!

 

[Mama]

Mama, jibu langu hapo juu nikuwa 'roho inakuwa imenyakuliwa'. RNA, DNA, Oxygen n.k. zinabakia humohumo... yaani mambo kama yale ya 'cot death' !!

nani anainyakua hiyo roho kama sio Mungu?

 

[Hollo]

nani anainyakua hiyo roho kama sio Mungu?

Mama mimi naamini ni MUNGU!

 

[Pundit]

i dont know about the Judeo-Christian doctrine so no comment, but i stand to be corrected that they also dont have clear explanations. May be you can give a clue about that doctrine

The Judeo-Christian doctrine god is the personal god that sits up in heaven and you can pray to him and he can listen, and his has this big party at kiama and only the cool people will get in, the rest will be punished by eternal brimstone and fire.

Thats the schizophrenic type of god that wrote jino kwa jino on one side of the book and atakayekupiga shavu la kulia mpe na la kushoto on the other.


He is schizophrenic because he was fabricated over thousands of years and the writers towards the end of the book differed from the ones towards the beginning.

 

[Pundit]

Originally Posted by Mama
nani anainyakua hiyo roho kama sio Mungu?

Mama mimi naamini ni MUNGU!

Unaamini hivyo sawa, unaweza kuamini in the tooth fairy and the Loch Ness Monster not to mention vinyamkera na vimbonerehi.

As long as unaamini.

Lakini je, unajua?

 

[Mama]

Mama mimi naamini ni MUNGU!

Hata mimi naamini hakuna zaidi ya Mungu. Tuamini Mungu tuache vitendo vya ufisadi. Kuna dhambi lakini dhambi ya ufisadi ni summation ya madhambi kama wizi, uongo, uuaji, unafiki, uchoyo (kujipenda mwenyewe kuliko unavyowapenda wengine), uroho, uvivu, tamaa, unyanyasaji, utesaji, ubadhirifu na vyote hivyo. Anayeamini Mungu hawezi fanya usisadi na anayeact anaamini Mungu halafu akafanya ufisadi huyo ni mnafiki na fisadi squared. Unawaibia watu halafu unaenda kuwadanganya na wanakubali uongo wako wanakupigia makofi na wewe unawachekea huku moyoni unawaogopa wasikusogelee kwa vile wananuka jasho!

 

[Mama]

The Judeo-Christian doctrine god is the personal god that sits up in heaven and you can pray to him and he can listen, and his has this big party at kiama and only the cool people will get in, the rest will be punished by eternal brimstone and fire.

Thats the schizophrenic type of god that wrote jino kwa jino on one side of the book and atakayekupiga shavu la kulia mpe na la kushoto on the other.


He is schizophrenic because he was fabricated over thousands of years and the writers towards the end of the book differed from the ones towards the beginning.

That is the God, no heaven without God. So hao wanaamini Mungu kama ninavyoamini. Kuhusu kujua hakuna yeyote anayejua zaidi ya Mungu.

Those jino kwa jino na shavu la kulia kwa la kushoto ni human fabrication of the Gods words. All the religious books were compiled by the third party, and most of the time they were for specific circumstances not as we generalise the phases for every action now.

 

[Hollo]

Unaamini hivyo sawa, unaweza kuamini in the tooth fairy and the Loch Ness Monster not to mention vinyamkera na vimbonerehi.

As long as unaamini.

Lakini je, unajua?

samahani vinyamkere na vimbonerehi ndo nini?mimi sijakuelewa

 

[Kuhani]

Vitu vyote hapa duniani vinajitengeneza kwa nguvu za Mungu, yawe maji au jua, je inakuwaje gas zinazotengeneza jua zisiishe na jua linakuwepo miaka nenda miaka rudi wala halibadili position kwenda kushoto, kulia, juu au chini, na halihami hapo? kwa nini dunia na mwezi vizunguke jua na isiwe the opposite hata siku moja?

Umeuliza swali lililo jengwa kwenye kipengele hitimisho (premise) kinachosema "Vitu vyote hapa duniani vinajitengeneza kwa nguvu za Mungu...je inakuwaje...?"

Ili nijibu hilo swali inabidi kwanza nikubaliane na hicho kipengele hitimisho cha awali.

Sio tu kwamba hatujakubaliana hicho kipengele hitimisho, bali pia hilo ndilo swali tunalo jadili, tunalo jiuliza, tunalopingana! Nikithubutu kuanza kujibu hilo swali maana yake nimekubali premise, na hivyo wazo zima la uumbaji wa Mungu!

Kwa hiyo, swali linajiua lenyewe.

Na muhimu zaidi, swali lako limeonyesha kwamba hoja yako ya kutetea uwepo wa uumbaji wa Mungu umejengeka katika hitimisho la uwepo wa uumbaji wa Mungu. Yani, ni hoja mviringo, ni circular argument. Na huu ni uthibitisho kwamba, bila kupindisha mantiki, uwepo wa uumbaji wa Mungu hauteteeki!

Swali lako limekufunga.

 

[Mama]

Umeuliza swali lililo jengwa kwenye kipengele hitimisho (premise) kinachosema "Vitu vyote hapa duniani vinajitengeneza kwa nguvu za Mungu...je inakuwaje?"

Ili nijibu hilo swali inabidi kwanza nikubaliane na hicho kipengele hitimisho cha awali.

Sio tu kwamba hatujakubaliana hicho kipengele hitimisho, bali pia hilo ndilo swali tunalo jadili, tunalo jiuliza, tunalopingana! Nikithubutu kuanza kujibu hilo swali maana yake nimekubali premise, na hivyo wazo zima la uumbaji wa Mungu!

Kwa hiyo, swali linajiua lenyewe.

Na muhimu zaidi, swali lako limeonyesha kwamba hoja yako ya kutetea uwepo wa uumbaji wa Mungu umejengeka katika hitimisho la uwepo wa uumbaji wa Mungu. Yani, ni hoja mviringo, ni circular argument. Na huu ni uthibitisho kwamba, bila kupindisha mantiki, uwepo wa uumbaji wa Mungu hauteteeki!

Swali lako limekufunga.

na ndio kuamini Mungu kunavyokuwa, hakuko exponential wala linear, its a circle, utaenda weee lakini utarudi palepale kama fumbo la kuku na yai nani kaanza. Swali halijanifunga bali limeshajijibu. Hakuna ajuaye zaidi ya Mungu

 

[Mbu]

...tunapokuja kwenye suala la kama kweli 'roho' ipo, iko wapi, nitawapa/kuwakumbusha mfano wa Organ transplant ambapo wanasayansi waliweza ku transplant kichwa cha nyani mmoja kwenda kwenye kichwa cha nyani mwingine, na kama inavyojulikana jamii ya nyani ina ukaribu sana wa tabia na maumbile na binadamu;

Professor Robert White, from Cleveland Ohio, transplanted a whole monkey's head onto another monkey's body, and the animal survived for some time after the operation

source; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1263758.stm

Labda huko zamani hakuna aliyeweza kuamini kuhusu Organ transplant, na kama unaweza tumia kiungo cha mtu baki kwenye mwili wako, jaribu ku imagine mzee ananunua mwili wa kijana kisha wanabadilisha kichwa tu, mzee anaendelea kuishi kama huo mfano wa nyani tulouona.

Swali linakuja, 'roho' ni Ubongo? au hakuna cha roho hapo? au tusubiri mpaka yatapotokea?